Grades v. Lakers 12/16

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Tough to find a single scapegoat for our ugliness tongiht. Question of the eveing: Has our lack of athleticism reached such a critical mass that it will undermine all our efforts this year?

Peja ( C+ ) -- just not up to the challenge tonight. Was not awful so much as irrelevant on a night when we needed him to be special. Was taking care of his on defense at least, which set him apart from virtually everyone else on the floor. Missed open shots that we needed him to knock down because everyone from Kobe to Tierre Brown was hitting them for the Lakers.
Webber ( C+ ) -- tonight it was his night to have the nightmare athletic matchup on defense (against Odom). And it did not go well. Actually hsi game kind of felt worse than it really was, because when you got down to it, at the point Webb left the game it was 20pts on 10/18 for Webb, 20pts on 10/15 for Odom. So not a blowout. But Odom's easy scoring and ability to drive and set up his teammates really set the tone for the Lakers. And a point of concern is Webb's boardwork, or lack thereof. He did not board well on the road trip, dropped below 10 a game for the first time all year, and then only nabbed 4 today. He needs to redidicate himself and get back in there. You can tell when he's focused on the glass, and right now he's not. Was one of the only Kings fighting back on offense, but at times was quick shooting.
Miller ( C- ) -- Brad has these games against athletic teams where he just looks like a fish out of water. The bizarre part is that he is rarely able to take advantage of his bulk and dominate the glass in these games. Seems like the whole game goes south. And to make matters worse of course, unlike Webb when Brad gets into these uncomfortable athletic zones, he does not have anything to turn to on offense to take advanatage of his size. Lot of minutes
Christie ( C ) -- made some nice passes, was harassing defensively early. But one of those games against kobe where doug was totally and completely irrelevant. i might as well have been guarding him. Kobe pretty much went where he wanted to, did what he wanted to, and Doug was unable to disrupt anything. Tribute to Kobe's game (now TWICE against us), also a cautionary tale about Doug's declining ability to be an impact defender. Also missed open shots we could nto afford. Nothing stylistically the matter with Douog's game tonight, but the results were flat. There was no pop with him in the game, and Bobby was far more effective in relief.
Bibby ( C+ ) -- started off the game immensely aggressive. Missed his first three shots in rapid succession, and looked like it might be a grim night, but then just attacked and attacked and eneded up as the leading scorer and energy guy in the first quarter. But even while he was hot, there was a cautionary tale as chucky Atkins was able to score back at him on the other front. Mike wasn't playing terrible defense, but neither was he disrupting anything. In the second half he was no longer hot, but ocntinued having defensive issues. Hot start may also have got him too focused on the hoop as he only notched a pair of assists.
BJax ( B+ ) -- Bobby bounced back nicely tonight. Came in with a ton of energy in the early second, and immediately starting grabbing huge rebounds. Also scored 20pts in 22 minutes, and took Kobe for those long stretches when we went with th small guard lineup (with limited success). Was sloppy at times, but easily the best thing we ahd going tonight. Bobby, at least, was competing.
Songaila ( B ) -- solid game by Darius. Particularly appreciated his uncommon tenacity on the boards -- after a pathetic start to the season when he was boarding like a slightly heftier Peja, he has been much stronger in recent weeks.
Tag ( INC ) -- got 1 pukie little minute to start the 2nd period. Not quite sure why, nor why we didn't try him just out of desperation as the lakers were slaughtering us on defense.
Barnes ( D+ ) -- gave us a whole bunch of nothing again. And we know this about him now -- cannot guard Kobe. Slumping in recent weeks at a critical time for him. Have no doubt we'll keep him on the roster, but we have to be taking longing looks at that waiver wire about now with effectively no backup SF or swingman right now.
Evans ( INC ) -- garbagetime, I wasn't paying very close attention, so somebody else will have to fill int he details.
Daniels ( INC ) -- garbagetime, I wasn't paying very close attention, so somebody else will have to fill int he details.
Martin ( INC ) -- garbagetime, I wasn't paying very close attention, so somebody else will have to fill int he details.

Adelman ( C ) -- well, what to say about this one. We just got slaughtered on defense, and never did find an answer. Rick called the appropriate time outs, but they made no difference. He also made the predicatable defensive switches, trying first Brad and then Peja on Odom, and trying Peja and BJax on Kobe after Christie proved ineffective. But none of it worked. Think this is one of those games where Rick's greatest strength -- his calm steady as she goes approach -- just was not conducive to him making the sorts of radical moves that he would have had to to get us back into it (maybe going to a press, quick douobles, zones etc.). But it likely still woudl not have mattered. Tonight was just one of those nights where Kobe grew a brain stem and the lakers played great. And frghteningly when you looked at the Kings, at our lack of athleticism, there just weren't many answers there no matter who was coahcing them.
 
Bibby's grade is way too high. He was not even trying to play PG. After he stopped hitting shots - there was nothing. He managed to put Atkins and Brown on the all star ballot.
 
Okay, here it is. You might want to mark this game on your calendar...

Team grade: F

That was NOT acceptable for an elite team on their home court. The Kings were in the game until they simply decided to quit passing. In addition, they hurried their possessions to the point where I was screaming at my TV. That is NOT smart basketball. I certainly hope they got it out of their systems.
 
I am not calling for the head of Adelman but the coaching is F-. If the defense is struggling put in better defensive players. Don't try to combat offense with more offense, you end up trading baskets. I am sick of all this lip service about defense. Greg Ostertag was brought in to clog the paint!! Tonight the only thing he had the opprotunity to clog was a seat on the bench.
 
I usually agree with your grades and like your criteria where players are graded relative to their ability and status with the team, but tonight - no way any of the starters deserve better then C- and Bibby doesn't deserve even that. He continues to give opposing PG's room at the top of the arc and never "closes in" as they start moving with the ball. Right now, I would accept the minimal defensive intensity and be happy.
 
Actually, I thought that Webber deserved a better grade. He did take a couple of dumb shots early in the shotclock, but he should have NOT been matched up against Odom on D.
 
Bricklayer said:
Don't know what college you have been going to. :)
Acording to the Provost office The CSU system considers C a passing grade and we do indeed graduate studets with 2.5 GPA's... Hate to be bearrer of bad news.
 
sloter said:
Actually, I thought that Webber deserved a better grade. He did take a couple of dumb shots early in the shotclock, but he should have NOT been matched up against Odom on D.
Webber had a fairly good offensive game and your right he should not have been matched up with Odom. I think Pete Carril is our only option, the man is a monster in the paint. Odom wouldn't know what to do.
 
Sorry, I just happen to think people forget who we are playing, and tend to underestimate the Lakers part in all of this -- they played a GREAT game.

In any case my scale comes out to a B- average game anyway. I save my Ds and Fs for 2-13 performances against the Hornets, otherwise there's no place left to go down.
 
You know, that goes a long way towards explaining quite a few things...

But, in all fairness about the grades above, I think D's would be more in order. If you go on A is Excellent, B is above average, C is average, D is below average and F is unacceptable I think for the most part, D's are in order...

Just my 3.74 cents, however...

;)
 
SacTownKid said:
I am not calling for the head of Adelman but the coaching is F-. If the defense is struggling put in better defensive players. Don't try to combat offense with more offense, you end up trading baskets. I am sick of all this lip service about defense. Greg Ostertag was brought in to clog the paint!! Tonight the only thing he had the opprotunity to clog was a seat on the bench.
oh lord,. i was too drunk to type all you said. yet its everything im thinking.

you're my heroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :D

although... im calling for his head.. he baaaaaaaa-lowwwwwwwwz
 
sloter said:
Actually, I thought that Webber deserved a better grade. He did take a couple of dumb shots early in the shotclock, but he should have NOT been matched up against Odom on D.
Who are you and what have you done with sloter?

:eek:
 
kingsfan25 said:
oh lord,. i was too drunk to type all you said. yet its everything im thinking.

you're my heroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :D

although... im calling for his head.. he baaaaaaaa-lowwwwwwwwz
I'll go as far to say he should be repeatedly spanked with a flaming towel. His head...I wouldn't go that far.
 
I think the Lakers shot unusually well tonight. I don't think they could do that three-point stuff consistently. The long bombs stretched-out the defenders, if the Kings even tried to block the long ones. Plus, the Kings missed a lot of open shots. I really don't think the Kings lost because of Laker athleticism as much as basketball fortune.

I would agree that it does not bode well for Webber and the Kings to have Odom running around like that. Kobe has always done that.




I suppose a "C" is a passing grade at universities where the alumni don't force professors to hand out gimme grades to elevate the school's image. It also depends on the major.
 
kingsfan25 said:
oh lord,. i was too drunk to type all you said. yet its everything im thinking.

you're my heroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :D

although... im calling for his head.. he baaaaaaaa-lowwwwwwwwz
You might want to go make a large pot of coffee...
 
VF21 said:
You might want to go make a large pot of coffee...
hahahhaa. yeah i am getting a little off subject here..

but on a better note... the kings still rule the lakers..

let them glorify over one win that they will surely never see again.
 
HndsmCelt said:
Acording to the Provost office The CSU system considers C a passing grade and we do indeed graduate studets with 2.5 GPA's... Hate to be bearrer of bad news.
I had no idea they still gave out Cs in college for anything short of failing. :)

I knwo people who actually made their choice of law school basd on which school had then highest grade inflation because higher grades = more impressive transcripts = higher paying jobs out of college. And of course that puts pressures onteh schools to inflate etc. Vicious circle.

In any case, if I give somebody a C+ I'm mildly unhappy with their performance. Anything lower and I'm quite unhappy. Save Ds and Fs for guys who were real goats. Tonight all of our guys could have played considerably worse games. Just not all of them together at the same time.
 
kingsfan25 said:
hahahhaa. yeah i am getting a little off subject here..

but on a better note... the kings still rule the lakers..

let them glorify over one win that they will surely never see again.
Well the last game they almost one and if we play D like that again this won't be the last blowout.
 
sloter said:
Actually, I thought that Webber deserved a better grade. He did take a couple of dumb shots early in the shotclock, but he should have NOT been matched up against Odom on D.

I disagree here. He could not stay with Mihm either (couple possesion) If he is on the floor he has to guard someone. He had a large part in killing our offense too. He was outrebounded by 5 other Kings. He was not the worst King tonight. Better grade - I do not think so.
 
Bricklayer said:
I had no idea they still gave out Cs in college for anything short of failing. :)

I knwo people who actually made their choice of law school basd on which school had then highest grade inflation because higher grades = more impressive transcripts = higher paying jobs out of college. And of course that puts pressures onteh schools to inflate etc. Vicious circle.

In any case, if I give somebody a C+ I'm mildly unhappy with their performance. Anything lower and I'm quite unhappy. Save Ds and Fs for guys who were real goats. Tonight all of our guys could have played considerably worse games. Just not all of them together at the same time.
Not sure I can go there with you all of this. Ok sure they could have played wrose ball, but this was no a good team palying mediocre being beaten by anaverage team playing great. This was a very good team making scrubs like Brown look like all star contenders. Oh well watter over the bridge now. As a college instructor in the midst of final grading I can assure you D's and F's still exist (at least in my book) and a C is earned by preforming marginaly , B means above average and A's are reserved for superior effort... probalby makes me unpopular, but in case you have not noticed others opinions of me are not my concern.
 
HndsmCelt said:
As a college instructor in the midst of final grading I can assure you D's and F's still exist (at least in my book) and a C is earned by preforming marginaly , B means above average and A's are reserved for superior effort... probalby makes me unpopular, but in case you have not noticed others opinions of me are not my concern.
So was I close?

VF21 said:
If you go on A is Excellent, B is above average, C is average, D is below average and F is unacceptable I think for the most part, D's are in order...
 
Good points.

First, regarding Webb's rebounding. This was something I noticed at the game. Oftentimes, Webb was nowhere near being around the hoop when a shot was going up. It seemed like he was saving his energy for guarding Odom or something. I was afraid Odom was going to play like this, I still remember his performance against the hobbled Webb in Miami last year. At least it wasnt so bad this year, yet

I also don't get why Tag played one measly minute. Maybe Adelman dissaproved of his calling in to local radio shows. I don't know. Sure, he's considerably less athletic than anyone the Lakers had out there, but since we were sucking at the interior defense, maybe he could have clogged the lane a little bit. Or just fouled Kobe more.
 
VF21 said:
Who are you and what have you done with sloter?

:eek:
Well, the grades ARE based on expectations ;)

piksi, Mihm does have a couple of inches on Webber, but even though he hit some shots on Webber (I remember him hitting only one, maybe two) he wouldn't be able to do to him what Odom did.
The real problem is Webber can't guard him and Miller can't guard him, so who do those TWO guys guard ?! Looks like a case of "Vlade vs. Mavericks".
 
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I think Peja and Web's grades were accurate, and I think their effort was slightly better than average as indicated, just not as noticable since it didn't produce very good results. I noticed Brad looking lost out there also, and wondered why, since the Lakers were small why aren't we? Darius is impressing me with his play in the paint, he is getting more comfortable as the year progresses. That board he nabbed with Jumaine camping on his back (and passed to Jackson who assisted DC) was a missed "jem" in the game. And, though Barnes played limited games in his rookie year so technically this is his second year, he may just need a little extra time to adjust to his current status -- it must still be awesome for him, maybe he needs a little more time to get his feet replanted, though he's an integral part of the backcourt relief we can't rush these things. ;) We have been patient with others that we've needed, and we need Barnes.

I began to frost my cake after last timeout (garbagetime), and I laughed at your explanation for giving the last 3 guys INC's! But I was wondering why Adelman, with about 5-1/2 minutes left and only down 16, didn't call a timeout and try to regroup? I wasn't surprised he threw in the white flag at about 4:20, I was actually hoping he would. But it would have been a stretch on most other nights...

Anyway, ugly, ugly loss. Made even uglier because it was the Lakers.
 
VF21 said:
Okay, here it is. You might want to mark this game on your calendar...

Team grade: F

That was NOT acceptable for an elite team on their home court. The Kings were in the game until they simply decided to quit passing. In addition, they hurried their possessions to the point where I was screaming at my TV. That is NOT smart basketball. I certainly hope they got it out of their systems.
Good comments except that some of us Kings fans are still under the illusion that we are an elite team. There are 4 teams in the West that are better then us and not to mention Detroit and Indiana when they have everyone. We are just a pretty good team and that is it.
 
I think someone mentioned it in this thread, but despite how great Bibby is offensively, he's still easily one of the worst defenders at his position in the league. Next to Nash.

Now that Christie's just about done, the first order of business for Petrie is finding perimeter defenders, no matter what position they play. Make a run at Pietrus from GS if you can.
 
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