[Grades] Grades v. Grizzlies 12/16/2016

Whose love child did you want to have tonight?

  • Foxy Kosta Koufos

    Votes: 11 44.0%
  • Garret "Tempting" Temple

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • I want to have everybody's baby!

    Votes: 6 24.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#1


All of those scrappy scruffy fugly defensive roleplayers we have picked up the last couple years go into Memphis, and its in the air there. They thrive. We win.



Link to Boxscore

Starters
16min 8pts (3-7 1-3 1-1) 0reb 0ast 2stl 0blk 1To
McLemore ( C ) -- was terrible in his short first half minutes, but played better after the break, and was turned to several times to provide an athletic matchup to a struggling Tony Allen. Kept dropping balls but eventually hit a three, got some leakouts, and was giving effort on D.

35min 22pts (7-20 0-3 8-8) 9reb 1ast 0stl 1blk 2To
Cousins ( C ) -- Cuz never seemed himself in this game, never really involved and dominating, and maybe the off court stuff had some part. But he began to make star plays after half, and when not getting ticked for cheap fouls had some excellent defensive moments smothering Gasol and disrupting at the rim. Could have hurt us with a dumb 6th in the final 2 minutes though.

Featured Grade 30min 16pts (7-11 0-0 2-6) 13reb 2ast 0stl 3blk 1TO
Koufos ( A ) -- Kosta doesn’t ever do much pretty, but for tonight at least he was getting it done. While Cousins waited until the late third quarter to really get into his groove, Kosta was there picking up the slack on offense and getting easy baskets on a variety of assisted baskets down low and three put backs off of his own misses (padding his very nice rebounding total a bit). Otherwise he stayed out of the way, setting screens and leaving the lane open for his more offensively talented teammates and really only had one of his patented “stone hands” moments. Defensively he had a tough assignment in Marc Gasol with his size and versatile game, but he rarely left Gasol open on the perimeter and made him work hard in the post, even getting one of his three blocks on Gasol face-up. Anytime you can hold Gasol to 4-of-9 from the floor and 14 points (counting free throws) while scoring 16 yourself, you get a gold star. And a win on top of that? Gravy. --Capt.

37min 17pts (4-11 3-6 6-6) 6reb 4ast 2stl 0blk 2To
Temple ( A- ) -- was our best player in the early part of the game, and helped set the tone we would never waver from. As the game went along he quit hitting shots, and eventually earned the little "-" next to his grade, but defense and hustle, including a key rebound in the final minute that the refs belatedly called right, never wavered.

38min 11pts (4-12 1-2 2-2) 2reb 6stl 1stl 0blk 1To
Collison ( C ) -- some of his decisionmaking on what shots to take or when to penetrate remained all kinds of shaky, but he gave a legit effort on D, and underwhelming as it was, solid PG play. Just unable to step up as a weapon with no Rudy and Boogie struggling.

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Bench

29min 7pts (2-8 0-4 3-6) 10reb 3ast 0stl 1blk 2TO
Barnes ( B- ) -- kept missing threes, including one in the final minute that would have been the backbreaker, and at time Ben's quickness seemed a better fit at SF with the Grizz playing smaller there. But back in his old stomping grounds, hit the boards hard, and brought defense.

30min 9pts (2-6 1-4 4-4) 2reb 1ast 0stl 1blk 0TO
Tolliver ( B- ) -- its not going to be there in the stats, he only hit the one three pointer again, he didn't board, and when it was Randolph, he struggled against the physicality. And yet he helped the other old defensive vets set a real grungy scrapping tone to this one,getting blocks and making rotations and being a smart pain in the butt.

2min 0pts (0-0 0-0 0-2) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Cauley-Stein ( INC ) -- came in and in three minutes managed to miss 2 FTs after we set him up, and rack up 3 fouls. Never returned, but actually for those brief minutes he looked like he was competing and even played some good defense on Randolph. Game just got too serious and tough-minded for soft kid training.

22min 6pts (2-5 1-2 1-2) 3reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
Lawson ( C+ ) -- very modest numbers, but the thing about he and Collison this time was that they played a lot together, and yet we were still getting a lot of scrappy disruptive defensive play out of them. Briefly made things exciting by missing the front end of the deciding FTs with 2 seconds to go.
 
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kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#5
a win in the Grindhouse is exceptional. It also helps that they don't shoot or make that many three's...which makes the Kings defense look better than it is IMO.
 
#6
Kosta has the talent to be a solid big. Even if somehow Cousins is dealt Kosta can step in as a lane clogged. Whether he fits with Cousins or can do this on a regular basis, it would help if the answer is yes
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
#7
a win in the Grindhouse is exceptional. It also helps that they don't shoot or make that many three's...which makes the Kings defense look better than it is IMO.
Doesn't it usually balance out, though? Some nights, you're hustling and playing good defense, and the other guys just have it stuck on automatic, and it makes your defense look worse than it actually is. And some nights, you're playing lazy, half-assed defense, and the other guys just can't hit air.
 
#8
Doesn't it usually balance out, though? Some nights, you're hustling and playing good defense, and the other guys just have it stuck on automatic, and it makes your defense look worse than it actually is. And some nights, you're playing lazy, half-assed defense, and the other guys just can't hit air.
I think our defense was good tonight though. Even the threes Kings killer Troy Daniels hit were contested. Rockets are just insanely hot right now and they pretty much just throw up anything with no conscience. Will it catch up with them in the post season?
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#9
Doesn't it usually balance out, though? Some nights, you're hustling and playing good defense, and the other guys just have it stuck on automatic, and it makes your defense look worse than it actually is. And some nights, you're playing lazy, half-assed defense, and the other guys just can't hit air.
As it pertains to the Kings, it usually does not balance out in the direction you are expecting or hoping for when dribble penetration or wide open three point shots are there to be had. In this game particular, who really is a three point threat? Mike Conley didn't shoot any until it was the closing seconds, Daniels hit two of them, Gasol hit one I believe, Green shot one....the 50 year old Vince Carter...don't get me wrong, the Kings played defense, all I'm saying is it's easier to play defense when you have a team that wants to grind it out in the half court with defense and post play, which happens to be the type of team the Kings have so they can match up better.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
#10
I think our defense was good tonight though. Even the threes Kings killer Troy Daniels hit were contested. Rockets are just insanely hot right now and they pretty much just throw up anything with no conscience. Will it catch up with them in the post season?
With D'Antoni's teams, it usually does. And, by "usually," I mean always.
 
#11
I think our defense was good tonight though. Even the threes Kings killer Troy Daniels hit were contested. Rockets are just insanely hot right now and they pretty much just throw up anything with no conscience. Will it catch up with them in the post season?
Well... Houston just set the record for most made 3s in a game (24) tonight against the Pelicans.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
#12
As it pertains to the Kings, it usually does not balance out in the direction you are expecting or hoping for when dribble penetration or wide open three point shots are there to be had. In this game particular, who really is a three point threat? Mike Conley didn't shoot any until it was the closing seconds, Daniels hit two of them, Gasol hit one I believe, Green shot one....the 50 year old Vince Carter...don't get me wrong, the Kings played defense, all I'm saying is it's easier to play defense when you have a team that wants to grind it out in the half court with defense and post play, which happens to be the type of team the Kings have so they can match up better.
My point was that, over the course of a season (for most teams), the number of games where your defense ends up looking better than it actually is, because the other team was simply offensively inept, usually ends up being close to the number of games where your defense ends up looking worse than it actually is, because the other team just can't miss.

This can alternately be thought of as The Warriors/Grizzlies Polarity.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#14
My point was that, over the course of a season (for most teams), the number of games where your defense ends up looking better than it actually is, because the other team was simply offensively inept, usually ends up being close to the number of games where your defense ends up looking worse than it actually is, because the other team just can't miss.

This can alternately be thought of as The Warriors/Grizzlies Polarity.
Understood. Speaking of defense, that's a long lost art in the NBA anyway, looking at the scores through out the league, teams are scoring 120+ points with regularity now...more so than ever before. It's a pitiful chuck fest of a league, paper tissue soft. Yet...I will remain a fan of the game, just refuse to watch Rockets & Warriors play.
 
#17
Great team win, gotta make the Kings think about trading Rudy. He kind of stalls the ball movement
The thing I have pointed out before is Rudy holds the ball and isolates but rarely if ever draws double teams, thus possesions just turn into Rudy 1 on 1 with no movement from anybody else on the court. Also his game is very smoothe to a fault. He's always going at the same gear, which on most nights is good enough to be a very good NBA player but you never see him turn up the juice. That does not work well with Cousins, Cousins needs to be surrounded by four guys that are flying around causing havoc.
 
#19
I'm ready to trade Rudy even though I know it'll make us worse. Please trade him Vlade.... there's no reason to hold onto him anymore.
That is debatable, Rudy is talented but you may be better off going Cousins with a bunch of scrappers and hustlers than the Cousins/Gay show and not much else from everyone else. Go with the 01 Sixers makeup. Question is also what do you get in the market for Gay?
 
#20
I'm ready to trade Rudy even though I know it'll make us worse. Please trade him Vlade.... there's no reason to hold onto him anymore.
I hate to jump to the "OMG WE'RE BETTER WITHOUT _________" cliche after a game and 2 quarters.... But it's really looking like its addition by subtraction with Rudy. His talent level is sure to be above whoever he's eventually traded for, but it's about fits... And he doesn't fit here anymore.
 
#22
That is debatable, Rudy is talented but you may be better off going Cousins with a bunch of scrappers and hustlers than the Cousins/Gay show and not much else from everyone else. Go with the 01 Sixers makeup. Question is also what do you get in the market for Gay?
I agree. two "hypothetical scenarios"..
1) Rudy - Iso heavy. Scores 20 + per game . Defenses expect it. No ball movement
2) 2-3 (insert role players ) - ball moves looking for best shot. Little to no Iso ball. Harder for defense to guard. 20+ pts spread between players that would be spectators to the Iso show
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
#23
I'm ready to trade Rudy even though I know it'll make us worse. Please trade him Vlade.... there's no reason to hold onto him anymore.
Losing Gay will make us less talented: it may not necessarily make us worse; Memphis didn't become more talented when they traded him, but they gave more minutes to guys who ended up being a better fit. Same with Toronto: they didn't improve because they became more talented, either.
 
#24
Losing Gay will make us less talented: it may not necessarily make us worse; Memphis didn't become more talented when they traded him, but they gave more minutes to guys who ended up being a better fit. Same with Toronto: they didn't improve because they became more talented, either.
Gay leaving also opened up room for DeRozan to start becoming what he is now and for Lowry to fully take the reigns of the team.
 
S

sactownfan

Guest
#25
Tonight was a great team win! I'm actually really pumped! Our players showed heart and hustle! I'd be awesome if we could get a 3-D SF for Rudy or maybe a SG that can play D and shoot... I'm hopeful coach will continue to start Temple ... he has too right?
 
#26
That is debatable, Rudy is talented but you may be better off going Cousins with a bunch of scrappers and hustlers than the Cousins/Gay show and not much else from everyone else. Go with the 01 Sixers makeup. Question is also what do you get in the market for Gay?
If we get rid of Rudy, I think we'd just be left with way too many role players and not enough talent. If you trade Rudy, then you'll be asking Collison to be your #2 scorer. Collison is barely passable as our #3 scorer... I just don't see how it'll work. Maybe unless we were able to replace Rudy with someone who fits Cousins, but can actually score?

I think the market for Gay remains the same as it did earlier in the season.. we had rumors of potentially Cameron Payne or Monta Ellis.
If Vlade still wants to try to win this season, I think he'll trade Rudy for a vet like Ellis. However, if he's looking to rebuild, he'll trade Rudy for a young player like Payne or Dekker.

I hate to jump to the "OMG WE'RE BETTER WITHOUT _________" cliche after a game and 2 quarters.... But it's really looking like its addition by subtraction with Rudy. His talent level is sure to be above whoever he's eventually traded for, but it's about fits... And he doesn't fit here anymore.
I actually think a combination of Gay-Cousins could work, but you need shooters around them. DC isn't a 3pt shooter...the guy hesitates from 3pt land all the time. At C, we have Koufos and he doesn't have any range. At SG, Joerger has been messing with our starters way too much to find any sort of consistency, but we still lack a starting SG.

In my personal opinion, the Kings had a good #1 player, and a solid #2 player. The Kings just failed to find players that fit. Even though Rudy isn't an ideal fit next to Cousins, he's still, by far, our 2nd best scorer.
 
#27
Losing Gay will make us less talented: it may not necessarily make us worse; Memphis didn't become more talented when they traded him, but they gave more minutes to guys who ended up being a better fit. Same with Toronto: they didn't improve because they became more talented, either.
Precisely. And I am not personally trying to bash on Rudy.I like Rudy. I think he is a great ball player in his own style. I just don't think his style lends itself to team winning basketball. Fans of teams he previously played for tend to agree.
 
#28
Losing Gay will make us less talented: it may not necessarily make us worse; Memphis didn't become more talented when they traded him, but they gave more minutes to guys who ended up being a better fit. Same with Toronto: they didn't improve because they became more talented, either.
Memphis already had a big 4. They already had Mike Conley, Zach Randolph, and Marc Gasol. Don't forget, they were all young and in their prime too. It's not like the Kings were DC is already 29, Afflalo 31, etc.

Without Rudy, the Kings would only have DeMarcus Cousins. Darren Collison is a bench player. Koufos is a bench player. Omri is a bench player. Ben is a bench player.

There's no one on our team capable of scoring at least 20ppg aside from Cousins and Gay.