[Grades] Grades/Postgame Discussion vs Timberwolves 12/14

#4
Kings vets (Hill, Zbo, Euro vet Bogi, etc.) all appeared alive and kicking for most part on the road. Kids for most part if not entirely horrible road mush against better team quite obviously.
 
#5
Took a bath at half time when it was competitive and a 9 point game.. came back, saw it was 26, and just rolled my eyes... we had been competitive recently..
 
#7
Took a bath at half time when it was competitive and a 9 point game.. came back, saw it was 26, and just rolled my eyes... we had been competitive recently..
Joerger tinkered with the lineup a bit, assuming Fox being out was part of the reason, and that was that.

Jackson & WCS joined the starters replacing Fox & Skal.
 
#10
Lets see: Hill played well for the second straight game. It seems his demons may be behind him. Ramp up for that trade.
Bogdan and Hield played decently. Koufas 11-8 is also going to look good for a playoff team.
Two members of the youth movement playing "decently" and vets upping trade value (assuming the FO even wants to trade them, which is a long shot) is a tough sell.

We're heading towards a pick in the 5-8 range, instead of the 1-5 range, and none of the kids on the roster are really flashing allstar potential, much less franchise player potential.... it's tough to get psyched right now.

I'm still gonna hang on and follow the team, but it's more outta habit than enthusiasm at this point. I'm passed out in the back of the bandwagon. Wake me up when we get there.
 
#11
Lets see: Hill played well for the second straight game. It seems his demons may be behind him. Ramp up for that trade.
Bogdan and Hield played decently. Koufas 11-8 is also going to look good for a playoff team.
Know what? I’m actually on board with trading away 1-2 of our vets for assets/future assets. I want a top 3 pick in this year’s draft. Period. Seems the only way to get that is to force Joerger to give the youngsters more minutes in the 2nd half of the season (by way of taking his vets away from him).
I like Joerger. But he needs some intervention to ensure we make the most of our chance at a superstar.
 
#13
Two members of the youth movement playing "decently" and vets upping trade value (assuming the FO even wants to trade them, which is a long shot) is a tough sell.

We're heading towards a pick in the 5-8 range, instead of the 1-5 range, and none of the kids on the roster are really flashing allstar potential, much less franchise player potential.... it's tough to get psyched right now.

I'm still gonna hang on and follow the team, but it's more outta habit than enthusiasm at this point. I'm passed out in the back of the bandwagon. Wake me up when we get there.
I do think that the young guys aren't exactly being given a chance to showcase any flashes though. The offense is being built around ZBo. Even Buddy who has been by all measures playing very well isnt playing that many minutes. Would be useful to bring up everyone's favourite per36 numbers.

If I had to be pessimistic I'd only look at Fox, who hasn't had much effect on games at all. But he's also only 19.

I just think you can't judge our young guys potential without simultaneously questioning if Joerger is putting them in positions to showcase it.
 
#15
I do think that the young guys aren't exactly being given a chance to showcase any flashes though. The offense is being built around ZBo. Even Buddy who has been by all measures playing very well isnt playing that many minutes. Would be useful to bring up everyone's favourite per36 numbers.

If I had to be pessimistic I'd only look at Fox, who hasn't had much effect on games at all. But he's also only 19.

I just think you can't judge our young guys potential without simultaneously questioning if Joerger is putting them in positions to showcase it.
You make a good point about the Z-bo focused offense, but I don't want to get into the "this kid would be better under a different coach" trap. Us Kings fans should know better!

If any of our young players were legit, they'd have a few awesome games here and there in any system.

Not that I'm counting anyone out, or calling our guys busts. Waaaay too early for Fox and Skal. Bogs, Mason and Buddy have been solid. WCS has good games here and there.

I just can't really gush about much lately, that's all.
 
#16
After a rough loss, thought i'd make a short write up of my impression thus far.

Buddy Hield - Obvious star. Really needs tighten his handles to get there. Causes too many tunovers but you can see the flashes. I think he's just about there, or atleast almost there. Hopefully close because he's I believe, 24. Need's to get better at playing the other wing. Maybe he can now though as we come to..

Garrett Temple - Has flashes but he's older and throws up too many unproductive games. I find myself puzzled to see him in playmaking situations far too often. Would prefer benched or released soon to free up minutes for other players.

Frank Mason - Another guard who is hampered by minutes. Needs to show more consistency but I feel if starting he could be a threat. This is a prospect that really looks to be a solid contributor at nba level.

Bogdan - In another case of crowded back court, is probably one of our best players right now, but obviously learning how to switch to nba level. Like Buddy though kind of stuttered when starting minutes were available.


As far as front cont is honestly a mess. I am very disappointed in several players including WCS and Skal. It's wierd though because Skal was one of our best players last year. Zbo is this year and they play same position. I don't see them coexisting. Skal is dominating G league at PF... Play him PF...

WCS has decent numbers i'd ship him off somewhere as well as Zbo, and try to get a good center, defensive big man. Skal was putting up some real good tape last year in his time, rookie year. I've just never seen a situation like WCS. He starts season as center and now hes backup PF? Very low defensive IQ player.. But good help defender. Atleast he has that somewhat! But he needs to control the paint with his frame. I'd throw his jersey in the rafters for it. He can't hit a jumpshot or create a post play yet so why does he think he's something else and why do we play it... Very awkward situation.

Fox i dunno honestly, needs to get more focused on games. Sometimes sloppy play. Seems nervous. But it's getting very noticable. Needs to have a complete game in NBA, which i'm not sure he has. Yet he's young and i'd prefer to see some flashes soon. I think our front court situation is in worse hands, but Starting SF is very low point of team as well.

Also i'm not sure this high post play with our PF's is best option if zbo isnt on floor. WCS doesn't have any moves really unless he's in control(not most of time) and in transition. Would probably be better team if we just fired threes at this point. I was envisioning some kind of driving game or Pick and roll with Fox and him creating to shooters. But obviously he can't handle that unless we could do it right?
 
Last edited:
#17
Finally watched a live game except missed most of the 1Q. Temple continued his poor play and on most other teams would probably get yanked by now. In pivotal 3Q Joerger decided to let the starters get pummeled before bringing in the bench who at least looked more interested in playing minus Cauley-Stein who looked fairly poor. Hill and Randolph looked ok in parts the 2Q but were part of the train-wreck 3rd. Mason played ok later, but shot terribly; Hield got some minutes and shot ok, but didn't get featured much. Bogdan again looked most consistent though no steals, but he did defense Taj at one point into a 50/50 out-of-bounds back to the Kings.

There were 2 Wolves runs in the 3rd and Joerger elected to try to play the starters through both of them more or less. Kings were down around 10 pts and the Wolves went on a run to down 18, and then another bigger run to down 27. I might've liked to see Joerger bring in the bench at down 18 not down 27 but that's just me. For about 4 or 5 min, the Kings offense fell out completely. The game was reminiscent of the Clipper game debacle awhile back though no Hield superman play to generate the needed humongous scoring differential. Grant and Reynolds blamed the Kings defense but it was the offense and the ineptitude of the starters on offense. Turnovers hurt in the 2Q, but they fought back down from 15 to 9. Awful defense a few seconds before half to allow a clean running 35 footer and made 3pt. Randolph and Hill helped bring the Kings back in the 2Q, and perhaps Joerger thought they could do it again, but they failed miserably. Only when Joerger brought in the bench did the scoring stabilize. Kings were outclassed and got blitzed by the Wolves athleticism. You could argue (like me) that Joerger didn't bring the bench quickly enough, but its hindsight 20/20 and didn't occur, and probably wouldn't have mattered. To win, at a minimum the team would've needed Cauley-Stein to at least have a solid to excellent game, and it wasn't there. He looked rushed and confused on offense thanks much to the Wolves, and not going for rebounds nearly enough on defense. Temple's utility on defense was muted and he looked especially bad getting beaten on defense and jacking up misses.
 
#18
On a team that has Butler/Wiggins/Gibson could have really used Sampson tonight but playing Temple/Carter is far more important at this stage.......

WCS went back to trying to be DMC tonight instead of playing his garbage man role.
 
#19
On a team that has Butler/Wiggins/Gibson could have really used Sampson tonight but playing Temple/Carter is far more important at this stage.......

WCS went back to trying to be DMC tonight instead of playing his garbage man role.
Carter looked ok in spotty minutes, but yes I'd rather see Bogdan just start and take a bigger share of Temple's minutes. Have not been pleased with Temple. Cauley-Stein looked flustered - maybe playing his buddy in college had something to do with it.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#20
Carter looked ok in spotty minutes, but yes I'd rather see Bogdan just start and take a bigger share of Temple's minutes. Have not been pleased with Temple. Cauley-Stein looked flustered - maybe playing his buddy in college had something to do with it.
He's also recovering from a back injury (i.e the kind of booboo where you pretty much can't do cardio at all)
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#22
After Fox went out of the game the only guy that interested me was Wiggins. I see him as a tremendous underachiever so far in his career. He's averaging a measly four rebounds a game in 37 minutes of play. For a guy with his talent, that is too horrible for words. He's shooting a very so-so 44% from the field. His defense could be soooooo much better than it is. The guy has absolute lock-down defender potential, but doesn't use it. I thought WCS was an underachiever, but Wiggins takes the cake. Maybe he needs to have a change of scenery to unlock it, just like WCS does in my opinion.

P.S. I forgot to mention that I miss Sampson. His rebounding, energy, hustle, defense, and physicallity, are all things this team needs. And he's a lot of fun to watch on the court.
 
Last edited:
#23
After a rough loss, thought i'd make a short write up of my impression thus far.

Buddy Hield - Obvious star. Really needs tighten his handles to get there. Causes too many tunovers but you can see the flashes. I think he's just about there, or atleast almost there. Hopefully close because he's I believe, 24. Need's to get better at playing the other wing. Maybe he can now though as we come to..

Garrett Temple - Has flashes but he's older and throws up too many unproductive games. I find myself puzzled to see him in playmaking situations far too often. Would prefer benched or released soon to free up minutes for other players.

Frank Mason - Another guard who is hampered by minutes. Needs to show more consistency but I feel if starting he could be a threat. This is a prospect that really looks to be a solid contributor at nba level.

Bogdan - In another case of crowded back court, is probably one of our best players right now, but obviously learning how to switch to nba level. Like Buddy though kind of stuttered when starting minutes were available.


As far as front cont is honestly a mess. I am very disappointed in several players including WCS and Skal. It's wierd though because Skal was one of our best players last year. Zbo is this year and they play same position. I don't see them coexisting. Skal is dominating G league at PF... Play him PF...

WCS has decent numbers i'd ship him off somewhere as well as Zbo, and try to get a good center, defensive big man. Skal was putting up some real good tape last year in his time, rookie year. I've just never seen a situation like WCS. He starts season as center and now hes backup PF? Very low defensive IQ player.. But good help defender. Atleast he has that somewhat! But he needs to control the paint with his frame. I'd throw his jersey in the rafters for it. He can't hit a jumpshot or create a post play yet so why does he think he's something else and why do we play it... Very awkward situation.

Fox i dunno honestly, needs to get more focused on games. Sometimes sloppy play. Seems nervous. But it's getting very noticable. Needs to have a complete game in NBA, which i'm not sure he has. Yet he's young and i'd prefer to see some flashes soon. I think our front court situation is in worse hands, but Starting SF is very low point of team as well.

Also i'm not sure this high post play with our PF's is best option if zbo isnt on floor. WCS doesn't have any moves really unless he's in control(not most of time) and in transition. Would probably be better team if we just fired threes at this point. I was envisioning some kind of driving game or Pick and roll with Fox and him creating to shooters. But obviously he can't handle that unless we could do it right?
I think Willie would be better in different sets paired with Bogdan. Willie is an athletic pick and roll player that can get the lobs Bogdan likes to throw. He also seems to pass the ball well.

To me Willie and ZBo are a horrible combination because the ball generally stops when ZBo is on the floor. I would like to see more Mason/Bogdan/Buddy/Willie line-ups with Vince and ultimately Giles. I would also like to see Bogdan’s usage rate go up because he is the most creative with the ball.
 
#25
Buddy Hield - Obvious star. Really needs tighten his handles to get there. Causes too many tunovers but you can see the flashes. I think he's just about there, or atleast almost there. Hopefully close because he's I believe, 24. Need's to get better at playing the other wing. Maybe he can now though as we come to..
Per 100 Possessions:
upload_2017-12-15_11-32-10.png

Any guess as to who Player A & B are? I'll give you a hint. Player A is on the Kings and Player B is an all-star. How about we look at Player B's season when he was the same age as Hield...I mean Player A...

Per 100 Possessions:
upload_2017-12-15_11-34-21.png
 
#28
Zbo's contract is not immoveable. Playoff teams who see an opportunity for a deep playoff run and want a guy off the bench to,score would not be hesitant to get him if they needed that interior scoring.

Hill, I'm confidant, is still seen as a guard who can defend at a high level, not hurt the team and score when he is a 3rd option. In the right situation, he also is a moveable piece. We might have to attach a 2nd rounder or a Malachi to the deal but that is also dependent on playoff teams and needs. Zbo is certainly easier to move though.
 
#29
The Kings might finally trade Kenny Thomas’ movable contract before finding someone that wants the Hil or Zbo contracts for assets.
ZBo is actually the more tradable of the 2 right now. His contract is not that bad and he is playing well.

I could see a veteran team needing scoring for the playoffs, possibly making a trade for him at the deadline.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#30
ZBo is actually the more tradable of the 2 right now. His contract is not that bad and he is playing well.

I could see a veteran team needing scoring for the playoffs, possibly making a trade for him at the deadline.
first team that came to my mind was the Pistons when reading this comment