Fox/Willie/Nemanja.

#1
Nov
Fox 32.5 min, 17.4 pts, 8 assists, 45.7% 3
Beli. 22.3 min. 8.8 pts, 5 boards, 48.6% 3
WC. 27.4 min. 12.8 pts, 7.7 brds, 51.7 %

Dec
Fox. 31.2 min, 19.4 pts, 7.9 assists, 40.0%
Beli. 24.8 min, 10.7 pts, 6.5 brds, 37.3%
WC. 28.9 min, 13.0 pts, 9.2 brds, 56.1%

Jan
Fox. 29.8 min, 15.6 pts, 5.7 assists, 28%
Beli. 24.6 min, 7.4 pts, 6.2 brds, 28.6%
WC. 28.5 min, 11.6 pts, 10.3 brds, 44.8%

Fox and Beli have taken a big slide this month. I think playing WCS and Bagley together is a big part of the problem but open to other thoughts. WCS has been rebounding better. Effort level appears fine but not getting good 3 point shots or making them.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#2
They've come down to Earth for starters and two, I think the pace they are playing with is slowly wearing them down, hence the decrease in Fox's minutes and shooting percentages. Teams also aren't taking the Kings lightly anymore as they were in the first two months.
 
#3
They've come down to Earth for starters and two, I think the pace they are playing with is slowly wearing them down, hence the decrease in Fox's minutes and shooting percentages. Teams also aren't taking the Kings lightly anymore as they were in the first two months.
Yeah, I agree. The other problem is teams stopping transition by fouling and the Kings not able to make them pay at the line.
 
#4
Nov
Fox 32.5 min, 17.4 pts, 8 assists, 45.7% 3
Beli. 22.3 min. 8.8 pts, 5 boards, 48.6% 3
WC. 27.4 min. 12.8 pts, 7.7 brds, 51.7 %

Dec
Fox. 31.2 min, 19.4 pts, 7.9 assists, 40.0%
Beli. 24.8 min, 10.7 pts, 6.5 brds, 37.3%
WC. 28.9 min, 13.0 pts, 9.2 brds, 56.1%

Jan
Fox. 29.8 min, 15.6 pts, 5.7 assists, 28%
Beli. 24.6 min, 7.4 pts, 6.2 brds, 28.6%
WC. 28.5 min, 11.6 pts, 10.3 brds, 44.8%

Fox and Beli have taken a big slide this month. I think playing WCS and Bagley together is a big part of the problem but open to other thoughts. WCS has been rebounding better. Effort level appears fine but not getting good 3 point shots or making them.
Playing teams for the 2nd and 3rd time. They've learned to defend the Kings better.
 
#5
Don’t know about the pace issue, but I’d guess Fox’s shoulder is bothering him more than he’s willing to let on.

Bjelica was playing a but over his head to begin with, so some regression was to be expected.
 
#6
I think a large part of the issue is the way Joerger is managing Fox. He pulls him with 5 plus minutes left in the first all the time regardless of his foul situation. I’ve never seen that before. Lillard for example played until the end of the first quarter in the last blazers game and rested at the start of the second. It’s hard to get any rhythm going like that, especially since Joerger keeps him out until almost halfway through the 2nd quarter. I’ve never seen a coach do that repeatedly to his young star PG.

I’d like to see Fox play until almost the end of the first quarter and come back with 8-9 to play in the second. He’s 21 years old and not 35 he should be able to handle it.
 
#7
Nov
Fox 32.5 min, 17.4 pts, 8 assists, 45.7% 3
Beli. 22.3 min. 8.8 pts, 5 boards, 48.6% 3
WC. 27.4 min. 12.8 pts, 7.7 brds, 51.7 %

Dec
Fox. 31.2 min, 19.4 pts, 7.9 assists, 40.0%
Beli. 24.8 min, 10.7 pts, 6.5 brds, 37.3%
WC. 28.9 min, 13.0 pts, 9.2 brds, 56.1%

Jan
Fox. 29.8 min, 15.6 pts, 5.7 assists, 28%
Beli. 24.6 min, 7.4 pts, 6.2 brds, 28.6%
WC. 28.5 min, 11.6 pts, 10.3 brds, 44.8%

Fox and Beli have taken a big slide this month. I think playing WCS and Bagley together is a big part of the problem but open to other thoughts. WCS has been rebounding better. Effort level appears fine but not getting good 3 point shots or making them.
I’m sure a lot of factors at play here, including some element of grind from the season. I do think Beli’s 3 point slump has a big impact on the offense. When he is feeling it and aggressive with the 3 it really opens everything up. Fox seems like a streaky jumpshooter so may be a combo of wear and tear, shoulder injury and apprehension mentally with his jumper.
 
#8
I think a large part of the issue is the way Joerger is managing Fox. He pulls him with 5 plus minutes left in the first all the time regardless of his foul situation. I’ve never seen that before. Lillard for example played until the end of the first quarter in the last blazers game and rested at the start of the second. It’s hard to get any rhythm going like that, especially since Joerger keeps him out until almost halfway through the 2nd quarter. I’ve never seen a coach do that repeatedly to his young star PG.

I’d like to see Fox play until almost the end of the first quarter and come back with 8-9 to play in the second. He’s 21 years old and not 35 he should be able to handle it.
I’ve been a little more troubled with how long he sometimes sits to start the 4th. Even when it seems we are on the ropes and the game is about to become out of reach (such as the hornets game) fox is sitting on the bench until sometimes almost halfway through the 4th. Obviously the strategy is to have him rested to close the game, but if the game is out of reach that’s pointless.
 
#9
Nov
Fox 32.5 min, 17.4 pts, 8 assists, 45.7% 3
Beli. 22.3 min. 8.8 pts, 5 boards, 48.6% 3
WC. 27.4 min. 12.8 pts, 7.7 brds, 51.7 %

Dec
Fox. 31.2 min, 19.4 pts, 7.9 assists, 40.0%
Beli. 24.8 min, 10.7 pts, 6.5 brds, 37.3%
WC. 28.9 min, 13.0 pts, 9.2 brds, 56.1%

Jan
Fox. 29.8 min, 15.6 pts, 5.7 assists, 28%
Beli. 24.6 min, 7.4 pts, 6.2 brds, 28.6%
WC. 28.5 min, 11.6 pts, 10.3 brds, 44.8%

Fox and Beli have taken a big slide this month. I think playing WCS and Bagley together is a big part of the problem but open to other thoughts. WCS has been rebounding better. Effort level appears fine but not getting good 3 point shots or making them.
Interesting, especially the shooting percentages fall off. Willie doesn't finish at the rim as well as we would all like, but this last month seems like he is missing shots he normally makes. I don't know if a big can go into a shooting slump around the rim or not, but hopefully it is something that is only temporary. Also, his percentages are a bit skewed by the 2-14 in the Clippers game, a game I'm sure he'd like to throw out. Throw that out and his percentage for January is an even 50%. Wonder if Fox or Beli's 3 point stats are skewed by any one bad game?
 
#10
I’ve been a little more troubled with how long he sometimes sits to start the 4th. Even when it seems we are on the ropes and the game is about to become out of reach (such as the hornets game) fox is sitting on the bench until sometimes almost halfway through the 4th. Obviously the strategy is to have him rested to close the game, but if the game is out of reach that’s pointless.
I agree with you on that point as well. No reason Fox should be averaging less than 30 minutes a game this month.
 
#11
I think a large part of the issue is the way Joerger is managing Fox. He pulls him with 5 plus minutes left in the first all the time regardless of his foul situation. I’ve never seen that before. Lillard for example played until the end of the first quarter in the last blazers game and rested at the start of the second. It’s hard to get any rhythm going like that, especially since Joerger keeps him out until almost halfway through the 2nd quarter. I’ve never seen a coach do that repeatedly to his young star PG.

I’d like to see Fox play until almost the end of the first quarter and come back with 8-9 to play in the second. He’s 21 years old and not 35 he should be able to handle it.
100% agree. I really don't understand it. It REALLY seems to get him out of a rhythm with consistency. Ditto for Buddy.
 
#12
I'm not concerned at all with the 3 point percentages of Fox or Beli. We know Fox isn't a 45% 3 point shooter and we know Beli isn't a 50% 3 point shooter so their percentages were bound to come down whether they were playing fast paced or not. Buddy is a career 42% 3pt shooter so if he went into the all star break shooting 55% from beyond the arc, I'd be nervous that a slump is bound to happen soon because normally these guys don't deviate a ton from their career norms.

If Beli ends the year shooting 38% and Fox ends the year shooting 35% from 3, I'd say it was an average statistical year for Beli and a nice improvement in shooting for Fox. I never expected Fox to jump from 30% to 40% in one season.

I'm actually more concerned with the defense. The Suns and Hornets both exploited a massive hole in the Kings defense. All the opposing team has to do is drive on us with reckless abandon and they will score enough to win the majority of the games. There just isn't enough rim protection on this team.
 
#14
Part of it is a wall they are hitting, but again, another big part is the insistence of running high post offense. They've put in more and more hand offs with Willie and the bigs up top. This team isn't nearly as effective in hand offs as they are off pick and roll. That little half second delay of gathering the ball around the screen from a hand off rather than being in a triple threat with an active dribble off the screen is huge for a pace team and even bigger for someone like Fox whose game is based off of his first step.
 
#15
Why has Joerger decreased D-Fox minutes from 32.5 MPG in November and December to 29.8 MPG this month? Get a grip dummy! D-Fox stats are down partially because this coach is keeping too tight of a reign on his best player. I noticed he takes him out relatively early in the 1st then sits him quite the while in the 2nd. D-Fox has energy for days, give me a break, he can play 35 MPG easily.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#17
Bjelica seems to have big "on" games and big "off" games. Sometimes you don't know if the coach put him into the game; other games he's rebounding, blocking shots and making 3s.

Fox is entirely different because I don't know what is the situation with his health or lack thereof. My wife, an ex-asst. physical therapist thought he was wearing some kind of protective wrap under his jersey in the last game. I really don't know. All I know is that currently he IS the difference maker on this team and until and unless we see him run up the floor like Flash, it's not the same Kings' team. We saw him only push the pace once in the last game. I do not think the Bobs were doing anything special to stop him. I think we can agree that such ordinary tempo from Fox is not because of a lack of minutes. In the meantime, it's up to Yogi and others to keep up the pace when Fox has a governor on his carburetor.
 
#18
Motor?

I think Beli/WCS lack the competitive spirit to bring it consistently. It’s easier to bring that fire when the season starts. But I don’t believe either are starters.

I hope this doesn’t apply in smaller degree to Fox. But It’s now somewhat mirroring last year where he started out the first few weeks on fire, than descended into passivity for a lot of the year. I’m hopeful that it’s a physical thing where he’s not strong enough for the grind yet. Especially when your trying to play at an insane pace that might not be beneficial over a full season
 
#19
Why has Joerger decreased D-Fox minutes from 32.5 MPG in November and December to 29.8 MPG this month? Get a grip dummy! D-Fox stats are down partially because this coach is keeping too tight of a reign on his best player. I noticed he takes him out relatively early in the 1st then sits him quite the while in the 2nd. D-Fox has energy for days, give me a break, he can play 35 MPG easily.
Well just in this thread you have some believe Fox is wearing down. Perhaps Joeger agrees.
 
#22
I hope they trade Willie next year or get rid of him. I never EVER considered him as a true starter material. Maybe a solid off the bench player. The reason he's starting is because Kings ain't got nobody with length to rebound. Well, they have Bagley and Giles and I trust those guys better than low IQ basketball player like Willie. Bagley and Giles are smart, hustle and agile and you want those type of players in today's NBA games to win. Willie taking dumb mid range shots is a waste of possession. He tend to commit stupid fouls and then asking the refs "what happened"?
 
#23
I hope they trade Willie next year or get rid of him. I never EVER considered him as a true starter material. Maybe a solid off the bench player. The reason he's starting is because Kings ain't got nobody with length to rebound. Well, they have Bagley and Giles and I trust those guys better than low IQ basketball player like Willie. Bagley and Giles are smart, hustle and agile and you want those type of players in today's NBA games to win. Willie taking dumb mid range shots is a waste of possession. He tend to commit stupid fouls and then asking the refs "what happened"?
You must not have seen the game. Giles isn't ready to take over for Willie at this point.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#24
I hope they trade Willie next year or get rid of him. I never EVER considered him as a true starter material. Maybe a solid off the bench player. The reason he's starting is because Kings ain't got nobody with length to rebound.
In a lot of ways, I think this is the classic "grass is always greener" approach to the world. Is WCS a Shaq-type star on the front line? No, not remotely. Is he worthy of starting on a team that is looking forward towards an All-Star level PG (Fox) and an All-Star level SG (Hield) and potentially an All-Star level PF (Bagley)? Like, yeah.

WCS is what he is. Is he a top-10 center in the league? No. Is he worth a max contract? No. Is he top-30? Yes. And given that, and the fact that we are developing potential top-10 talent at three other positions should we kick him to the curb? No. I have a hard time seeing a much better front line rotation in two years than Bagley/WCS/Giles, provided we hold on to WCS. Would I trade WCS straight up for Steven Adams? Yes. WCS isn't perfect. But that deal's not on the table, and we aren't likely to replace WCS with a better fit easily. As it stands right now, the Kings' potential strength lies in our guards and power forwards. A full-sized center who is capable of playing the high-paced running game is a pretty nice bonus for a team like us, and for all of his faults, that's what WCS is.
 
#25
It is a long season.
I am not a big Willie fan, but he deserves some credit for increasing his rebound average every month. He has improved his footwork a lot. He runs the floor. His shot selection in much better. Wish he could finish better. To me his defense is his weak link. He makes a lot of reach in fouls and is terrible at rotating from the weak side. I would trade him for a guy like Stephen Adams in an instant.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#26
I'm consistently blown away by fans that try and make Willie the goat, when the obvious problems with the team are staring them in the face. Everyone wanted Willie to rebound better, and now that he is, they turn to other things to criticize. The team has taken a slide, and it has nothing to do with Willie. First, Bjelica, until last night, has been in a horrible slump. While he always gives effort, his defense alone isn't enough to keep him on the floor. He has to be a scoring threat to be a net positive for the team. While the slump was, and maybe still is concerning, he has a history of being a good shooter, so the odds are he returns to form.

The other problem, and in my opinion, is a big problem for the team, is Shumpert. Over his last ten games he's averaging 25:37 mpg, and 6 points per game. Overall he's shooting 25% from the floor and a horrible 22% from the three. In the last ten games he's only been to the line 6 times, which tells you that all of his offense is coming away from the basket, where he's proven to be extremely inefficient. He's also averaging a paltry 2.5 rebounds over the last ten games.

If you notice, Fox has had a more difficult time getting to the basket, and part of that is because other teams are cheating off of Shumpert and clogging the lane, and they'll continue to do so until he proves he can hit his outside shot. Therein lies the problem. History tells us that over his career, Shumpert has never been an efficient jumpshooter, so believing he'll return to form may be wishful thinking. In the meantime, he's hurting the team.

I know that Joerger is loyal to his players, and usually has to have his arm twisted to make a change, but right now, I think it's time to start either Jackson, or Bog's, or make a trade for a starting SF. Shumpert is not the answer, and never will be. He's never been starting material, and in many ways offensively he's the antithesis of what the Kings are trying to do, which is move the ball quickly to get an open shot. He tends to over dribble, eat up the shot clock, and many times, far too many to suit me, end up taking a highly contested shot. I'm not a fan of hero ball, unless your name is Kevin Durant or the equivalent.
 
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#27
Shump would be best used how Koufos and McLemore are now, in case of emergency.
A legit combo forward, really just a stronger better version of JJ, would do wonders.

Belly could get more rest, Willie would get help on the boards, and Fox benefits just by having another deep threat.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#28
In a lot of ways, I think this is the classic "grass is always greener" approach to the world. Is WCS a Shaq-type star on the front line? No, not remotely. Is he worthy of starting on a team that is looking forward towards an All-Star level PG (Fox) and an All-Star level SG (Hield) and potentially an All-Star level PF (Bagley)? Like, yeah.

WCS is what he is. Is he a top-10 center in the league? No. Is he worth a max contract? No. Is he top-30? Yes. And given that, and the fact that we are developing potential top-10 talent at three other positions should we kick him to the curb? No. I have a hard time seeing a much better front line rotation in two years than Bagley/WCS/Giles, provided we hold on to WCS. Would I trade WCS straight up for Steven Adams? Yes. WCS isn't perfect. But that deal's not on the table, and we aren't likely to replace WCS with a better fit easily. As it stands right now, the Kings' potential strength lies in our guards and power forwards. A full-sized center who is capable of playing the high-paced running game is a pretty nice bonus for a team like us, and for all of his faults, that's what WCS is.
So he's anywhere from 11 to 30 in starting NBA centers? Which means theoretically he falls to the worst starting center in the league? Yikes. That's what I call low expectations for the Kings at the center position. I sure the hell hope the Kings can do better than that!

The team that Joerger refers to as "little" has got to get bigger. And if we look at WCS's strength progress over the last four years it might take another 16 years to match up with NBA strong men. Have you considered that with Fox, Bagley and Giles that a light-weight center does not complement their strengths and weaknesses? These are not big players. Maybe it's better to go with someone who can't run with WCS, but can deal with more mass at the center position because he will offset the weakness of the Fab Trio? So far, the logic with WCS has been: Kings are a fast break team; WCS is fast; ergo, WCS is a good fit. Maybe the logic should be more like this: The Kings are a "little" team, meaning not strong, meaning low in mass, and can be overwhelmed with strength by the opposition; therefore, more strength, not speed is what is required at the center position. Maybe WCS is not the best complimentary player at center for this team after all.
 
#29
Bjelica annoys me more than any other King now. I don’t know how he still has defenders now. Just has quit on the season since that good start. Needs replacing now