Surprised this wasn't posted yet.
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/12650748/nba-draymond-green-leads-all-defense-team
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/12650748/nba-draymond-green-leads-all-defense-team
ESPN Pelton's All Defense team
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He won't be robbed.
Well, I mean especially with these late season injury games we're playing its entirely possible he'll be robbed vis a vis Gasol, who just isn't in his league. So I'm expecting him out lose out on First. But it would be pretty shocking after all the image rehab, and All Star stint, Team USA, and people even taking note of his defense (ahem, I should note ESPN has been spammed by, er, someone, as have other sites
) for him to miss out entirely.
Well, I mean especially with these late season injury games we're playing its entirely possible he'll be robbed vis a vis Gasol, who just isn't in his league. So I'm expecting him out lose out on First. But it would be pretty shocking after all the image rehab, and All Star stint, Team USA, and people even taking note of his defense (ahem, I should note ESPN has been spammed by, er, someone, as have other sites
) for him to miss out entirely.Besides the fouls, Cousins turnovers’ are ranked 2nd in the league with 4.3 per night. But I don’t think it’s all because of his sloppiness.
The Kings are basically, one-man-team, having one stand out player who can be all the difference. It has become routine, Cousins is swarmed (tripled or even quadrupled) by the best defenders of the opposing teams when he touches the ball, resulting to turnovers.
I think, the league leading high rate of charges taken are due to his poor supporting cast as well.
Speaking of the supporting cast, it’s good to seen Tyreke is making best out of it.
The Kings are basically, one-man-team, having one stand out player who can be all the difference. It has become routine, Cousins is swarmed (tripled or even quadrupled) by the best defenders of the opposing teams when he touches the ball, resulting to turnovers.
I think, the league leading high rate of charges taken are due to his poor supporting cast as well.
Speaking of the supporting cast, it’s good to seen Tyreke is making best out of it.
IMO, a charge is inarguably the most impactful defensive stat in the game.
It guarantees a change of possession (something a block does maybe half to 2/3rds the time), and it racks up a foul on the other team's offensive player (guys who drive are almost by definition the opposition's best players).
That foul = 1/6th of his entire allotment for the game and may easily lead to him being removed from the game or adjusting his game to avoid more fouls.
What other defensive stat remotely has that kind of impact?
I think it's bordering on lunacy that this impactful of stat is being dismissed/ignored/underrated, even during discussions of best defensive players.
I understand that charges are more rare and less in number when compared to blocks and steals, but to basically ignore the whole category just because it doesn't show in a box score seems blatantly lazy when analyzing/comparing defensive play.
It guarantees a change of possession (something a block does maybe half to 2/3rds the time), and it racks up a foul on the other team's offensive player (guys who drive are almost by definition the opposition's best players).
That foul = 1/6th of his entire allotment for the game and may easily lead to him being removed from the game or adjusting his game to avoid more fouls.
What other defensive stat remotely has that kind of impact?
I think it's bordering on lunacy that this impactful of stat is being dismissed/ignored/underrated, even during discussions of best defensive players.
I understand that charges are more rare and less in number when compared to blocks and steals, but to basically ignore the whole category just because it doesn't show in a box score seems blatantly lazy when analyzing/comparing defensive play.
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And it can be just as impactful for the guy trying to take the charge. It's a risky play. If you pull it off, yeah it's a great defensive play for all the reasons stated, but if you don't pull it off, it swings heavily the other way.
Would you rather your defensive anchor pick up a couple charges and a couple blocking fouls and have to sit out minutes because of foul trouble, or would you rather have a player not attempt to take charges and focus on just contesting shots the entire game? I'm not saying I know the answer, but I can see an argument for both sides.
Obviously, if your charge to blocking fouls ratio is ridiculously good, then yeah, I'm all for that player taking charges. However, I wouldn't be able to tell you what's the breaking point in that ratio where it hurts more than it helps.
Would you rather your defensive anchor pick up a couple charges and a couple blocking fouls and have to sit out minutes because of foul trouble, or would you rather have a player not attempt to take charges and focus on just contesting shots the entire game? I'm not saying I know the answer, but I can see an argument for both sides.
Obviously, if your charge to blocking fouls ratio is ridiculously good, then yeah, I'm all for that player taking charges. However, I wouldn't be able to tell you what's the breaking point in that ratio where it hurts more than it helps.
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Heck, in a discussion of Defensive play efficiency, why isn't the number of shooting fouls a player makes an issue?
Guess who's number 1 in Shooting Fouls committed? (i.e. "leading the Hack Team")
Yup - "DPOY candidate" Deandre Jordan.
Guess who's number 3?
Draymond, come on down!
So when you commit more shooting fouls than anyone in the NBA, and those fouls by definition lead to FT attempts (and points) by the other team.... how/why is that ignored in a defensive efficiency discussion?
Interesting stat, by the way - Noone here would guess who is at #4.
Ben McLemore.
And our own JT is firmly planted amongst the leaders of the NBA at #20.
Demarcus is #59.
It would be interesting to see a stat that compared the number of blocks a player got vs the number of shooting fouls he gave. I'd think that would be a vital statistic when comparing a defensive player's efficiency.
Unless an analysis takes that into account, then a defensive player could just hack the crap out of everyone, since the number of times he fouls is apparently not factored into his efficiency - if he has nothing to lose, he may as well get a few more blocks, even though he's giving up his team a lot of points.
Let's compare DMC to Deandre Jordan:
Jordan has 175 Blocks vs DMC's 103. (That's 72 more, and a block does not guarantee a possession change)
Jordan also has 158 Shooting Fouls committed vs DMC's 101. (That's a 114 more FT's given up by Deandre)
Calculating in an estimate of 66% (complete guess) for how often a Block leads to a possession change, Deandre only has DMC by 48 possession changes, while giving up a whopping 114 more FT's while contesting those shots.
With the league FT average around 75%, that's 85 more points DeAndre gives up than DMC while guarding his man.
One could easily conclude that Demarcus is a more efficient defender than DeAndre Jordan, and that's even ignoring the Charges Taken disparity.
(stats taken from nbaminer.com )
Guess who's number 1 in Shooting Fouls committed? (i.e. "leading the Hack Team")
Yup - "DPOY candidate" Deandre Jordan.
Guess who's number 3?
Draymond, come on down!
So when you commit more shooting fouls than anyone in the NBA, and those fouls by definition lead to FT attempts (and points) by the other team.... how/why is that ignored in a defensive efficiency discussion?
Interesting stat, by the way - Noone here would guess who is at #4.
Ben McLemore.
And our own JT is firmly planted amongst the leaders of the NBA at #20.
Demarcus is #59.
It would be interesting to see a stat that compared the number of blocks a player got vs the number of shooting fouls he gave. I'd think that would be a vital statistic when comparing a defensive player's efficiency.
Unless an analysis takes that into account, then a defensive player could just hack the crap out of everyone, since the number of times he fouls is apparently not factored into his efficiency - if he has nothing to lose, he may as well get a few more blocks, even though he's giving up his team a lot of points.
Let's compare DMC to Deandre Jordan:
Jordan has 175 Blocks vs DMC's 103. (That's 72 more, and a block does not guarantee a possession change)
Jordan also has 158 Shooting Fouls committed vs DMC's 101. (That's a 114 more FT's given up by Deandre)
Calculating in an estimate of 66% (complete guess) for how often a Block leads to a possession change, Deandre only has DMC by 48 possession changes, while giving up a whopping 114 more FT's while contesting those shots.
With the league FT average around 75%, that's 85 more points DeAndre gives up than DMC while guarding his man.
One could easily conclude that Demarcus is a more efficient defender than DeAndre Jordan, and that's even ignoring the Charges Taken disparity.
(stats taken from nbaminer.com )
I think you are far more likely to be called for a foul when refs misread verticality than when you are telegraphing the charge. Cousins has a good ability to read the play and know which way to go. Most of his silly fouls are frustrated reach-ins after non-calls at the other end. It would be preferable to eliminate those before focusing on the ones that help the team.
My post wasn't analyzing Cousins, rather it was looking at just the event of taking a charge in general.
But to your first point, the verticality rule can end up in a no call. Meaning nobody picks up a foul. An attempted charge will more often that not end up in a foul one way or the other. You force the ref to blow the whistle and make a decision whereas refs can be more lenient when someone is challenged in the air.
But to your first point, the verticality rule can end up in a no call. Meaning nobody picks up a foul. An attempted charge will more often that not end up in a foul one way or the other. You force the ref to blow the whistle and make a decision whereas refs can be more lenient when someone is challenged in the air.
There isn't really much Cousins can do about the fouls until the team plays better team defense. When you are in charge of protecting the rim and the paint, you are going to pick up fouls. Boogie also has to carry the offensive load which puts him in a lot more situations of getting offensive fouls.
First team: Andrew Bogut, Golden State Warriors
Second team: Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
Honorable mentions: DeMarcus Cousins, Sacramento Kings; DeAndre Jordan, Los Angeles Clippers; Nerlens Noel, Philadelphia 76ers
I seems accurate to me that Cousins is in the 3rd through 5th range in terms of NBA defensive centers. If that is that case, why do we desperately need a shot blocker at the power forward position? Is Thompson so bad as a defensive pf that we need a big upgrade there? I thought Thompson showed himself to pretty good in his defense this year. Is it really the defensive quality of the power forward position that needs to be upgraded, or is it the fact that our wings can't guard a chair and a power forward upgrade is thought to be the magic bullet that compensates for the guards' inadequacies?
Second team: Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
Honorable mentions: DeMarcus Cousins, Sacramento Kings; DeAndre Jordan, Los Angeles Clippers; Nerlens Noel, Philadelphia 76ers
I seems accurate to me that Cousins is in the 3rd through 5th range in terms of NBA defensive centers. If that is that case, why do we desperately need a shot blocker at the power forward position? Is Thompson so bad as a defensive pf that we need a big upgrade there? I thought Thompson showed himself to pretty good in his defense this year. Is it really the defensive quality of the power forward position that needs to be upgraded, or is it the fact that our wings can't guard a chair and a power forward upgrade is thought to be the magic bullet that compensates for the guards' inadequacies?
I think at this point Boogie's development means we do NOT desperately need a shotblocker at PF...but on the other hand can you imagine if we DID have one? Boogie is all alone in there, the team as a whole is still terrible defensively. Why be satisfied with just having enough, when we could become a defensive powerhouse inside?.
And regardless if its a starting PF or not, we desperately DO need a second player capable of anchoring a defense/defending the rim. Despite Boogie's massive progress, the gigantic +/- he carries around as a defender should never happen. He leaves, and our defense completely falls apart everytime. You can't have that sort of complete collapse and be a good team. We need somebody who can step up when the big guy is off the court and hold down that middle until he gets back. Doesn't have to score at all. A pure established defensive anchor with no other skills would be enough.
And regardless if its a starting PF or not, we desperately DO need a second player capable of anchoring a defense/defending the rim. Despite Boogie's massive progress, the gigantic +/- he carries around as a defender should never happen. He leaves, and our defense completely falls apart everytime. You can't have that sort of complete collapse and be a good team. We need somebody who can step up when the big guy is off the court and hold down that middle until he gets back. Doesn't have to score at all. A pure established defensive anchor with no other skills would be enough.
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I agree that we another player who can protect the rim when Cousins is out. Our depth is terrible. But I also wonder if we need a two-way guard who can play outstanding defense. We consistently get killed with the 3 point shot and a shot blocking upgrade at the power forward wouldn't do much for that . This team seems to have many needs, and I'm not inclined to be focused on just one.
NBA defense is more about guard penetration nowadays.
IMO it's more important to have elite defenders at guard and SF than it is at C.
We have all seen how bad Sacramento's defense is, even with Demarcus playing like a Top 5 defensive player in the entire league!
Along with guarding the pick-and-roll, we need better guard defenders or next year will have various shades of this year's defensive woes.
IMO it's more important to have elite defenders at guard and SF than it is at C.
We have all seen how bad Sacramento's defense is, even with Demarcus playing like a Top 5 defensive player in the entire league!
Along with guarding the pick-and-roll, we need better guard defenders or next year will have various shades of this year's defensive woes.
No.
Two Nos.
1) No on basketball theory. Here's the deal: each guard can only guard his man. A good defensive guard guards one guy. He's out of position to do much on anybody else. A good defensive center guards EVERYBODY. He stands behind the entire defense. He guards his man, and he can see and help on any penetration around any guard. Great defensive centers are ALWAYS more impactful than great defensive anything elses. The only thing close would be the rarest bird of all, the great defensive PG capable of harassing ballhandlers, but even that only works if a team is dependent on one guy to initiate.
2) No on facts. Boogie's excellent defense has had a HUGE effect on our defense. Did you know that when Boogie is on the floor the Sacramento Kings play BETTER defense than than the Memphis Grizzlies do while Gasol is on the floor? And when Boogie leaves, its a complete catastrophe. He's turning into a great defensive center, and he's having the effect great defensive centers can have.
Basketball is basketball. A great defensive center is just as valuable in a guard penetration era as in a big man era. Who do you think moves over to cut off and challenge all those penetrating shots?
Two Nos.
1) No on basketball theory. Here's the deal: each guard can only guard his man. A good defensive guard guards one guy. He's out of position to do much on anybody else. A good defensive center guards EVERYBODY. He stands behind the entire defense. He guards his man, and he can see and help on any penetration around any guard. Great defensive centers are ALWAYS more impactful than great defensive anything elses. The only thing close would be the rarest bird of all, the great defensive PG capable of harassing ballhandlers, but even that only works if a team is dependent on one guy to initiate.
2) No on facts. Boogie's excellent defense has had a HUGE effect on our defense. Did you know that when Boogie is on the floor the Sacramento Kings play BETTER defense than than the Memphis Grizzlies do while Gasol is on the floor? And when Boogie leaves, its a complete catastrophe. He's turning into a great defensive center, and he's having the effect great defensive centers can have.
Basketball is basketball. A great defensive center is just as valuable in a guard penetration era as in a big man era. Who do you think moves over to cut off and challenge all those penetrating shots?
There's a flip side to those charges. How many of Boogie's attempts to draw a charge resulted in a blocking foul? We do know that Boogie doesn't draw the offensive foul on 100% of his attempts to take a charge. So you're giving the other team FT's and putting yourself in foul trouble.
Not saying it isn't useful, but there's a definite downside as opposed to more traditional rim protectors.
Not saying it isn't useful, but there's a definite downside as opposed to more traditional rim protectors.