Deandre Ayton (merged)

gunks

Hall of Famer
#3
Something to ponder....

We've talked about moving down, but what about moving up to snag Ayton (assuming that he's going to be the #1 pick, which all signs point to)?

Obviously pick #2 is outgoing. But what would we have to throw in to make it happen without it being an overpay?

Personally, I'm cool with sticking with Doncic. But with rumors of us wanting to target a big with #2, I'm wondering if Vlade might not try to get hands on this draft's PRIZE big. Doncic might have a high floor, but Ayton's ceiling is through the roof.

WCS + #2 for ??? and #1 would probably be the starting point. A bit of a swing for the fences trade for sure. If Doncic ends up as good or better than Ayton, we lose. If Ayton reaches his massive potential and WCS continues to play like a spacey roll of charmin, we win.
 
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#4
Yeah i really want Ayton and want PHX to take Doncic and just let it happen for us but if not then we do need to explore i feel and the way in is this whole Capella piece swirling around phx around them looking to give him the max.

Im not sold on Capella as a max guy. PHX really is mortgaging their future if they go at that.

If we can market Willie as cheaper then giving Capella the max then they could bite on trading us their first potentially.

I dont think we could get their first outright unless we included Fox and if that was the case we'd have to market him as a better fit next to Booker then Doncic which i am not so sure about. They'd have to be delusional also but hey worth trying.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#6
I am not a fan of trading up unless you have a crystal ball.
Fair! I'm playing with the idea more than endorsing it. Like I said, I'd be happy to stand pat and take whoever is left at 2. Both Ayton and Doncic will be great players. These are just fun conversations to have. A lot more fun than arguing the merits of Carter vs Bridges (with insincere apologies to the teams we leapfrogged)!

Yeah i really want Ayton and want PHX to take Doncic and just let it happen for us but if not then we do need to explore i feel and the way in is this whole Capella piece swirling around phx around them looking to give him the max.

Im not sold on Capella as a max guy. PHX really is mortgaging their future if they go at that.

If we can market Willie as cheaper then giving Capella the max then they could bite on trading us their first potentially.

I dont think we could get their first outright unless we included Fox and if that was the case we'd have to market him as a better fit next to Booker then Doncic which i am not so sure about. They'd have to be delusional also but hey worth trying.
Kinda what I was thinking. WCS and Doncic will be quite a fun pair as well. Hopefully Phoenix overlooks that Clint has demolished Willie in their match ups! I would want a little something back with their 1st as well. I'm not too knowledgeable on what tradeable assets The Suns might throw in though.

We all know Vlade is an active dude on draft day, and we haven't come out saying we're taking Doncic (Suns have pretty much claimed Ayton, and Hawks have done the same with Bagely) so I wouldn't be surprised if we at least have talks!
 
#8
Fair! I'm playing with the idea more than endorsing it. Like I said, I'd be happy to stand pat and take whoever is left at 2. Both Ayton and Doncic will be great players. These are just fun conversations to have. A lot more fun than arguing the merits of Carter vs Bridges (with insincere apologies to the teams we leapfrogged)!
It's funny because I think those of us that have shown support to Vlade have done so with a bit of admiration for his willingness to take risks, forgiving him for the ones that missed because we felt something needed to be done, and perhaps over-praising him for the ones that hit.

But I would be livid if he got cute here. Everyone saying the Kings can't screw this one up and this is about the one way they could - reach for the top and miss. Our good friends in Philly may have done this with Fultz and that should be right on everyone's mind here. Two is a very safe spot to be.
 
#9
I haven't read any Suns news, is Ayton to them pretty much the chatter.
Most of the players want Ayton, which makes sense because he won't jeopardize their spot on the roster. And a large swath of their fans want Ayton because he is the player they know best. A prominent local reporter says they are all in on Ayton as well, but they may be smokescreening to see if Atlanta or the Kings are willing to overpay to move up a spot or two.
 
#10
Yeah i really want Ayton and want PHX to take Doncic and just let it happen for us but if not then we do need to explore i feel and the way in is this whole Capella piece swirling around phx around them looking to give him the max.

Im not sold on Capella as a max guy. PHX really is mortgaging their future if they go at that.

If we can market Willie as cheaper then giving Capella the max then they could bite on trading us their first potentially.

I dont think we could get their first outright unless we included Fox and if that was the case we'd have to market him as a better fit next to Booker then Doncic which i am not so sure about. They'd have to be delusional also but hey worth trying.
Capella is the new age Mikki Moore. Benefits from having 2 great passers dumping off passes and throwing lobs. We already did the Mikki thing it's time for someone else to try!
 
#12
I thought Willie is the new Mikki Moore and Capela is the new Samuel Dalembert?
Willie has never had a J-Kidd level passed on his team inflating his stats. Capela has got a ways to go before he can even be mentioned as good as Sammy D. I'm always leary of guys who are spoon fed buckets... Easiest thing to do is to dunk it when you're wide open.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#13
Willie has never had a J-Kidd level passed on his team inflating his stats. Capela has got a ways to go before he can even be mentioned as good as Sammy D. I'm always leary of guys who are spoon fed buckets... Easiest thing to do is to dunk it when you're wide open.
so then DeAndre Jordan would fall into that category too
 
#17
I don't think teams are looking to sign Capela for his offensive tools.

The guy is a great defender. Watching him play man defense on Durant was really impressive. He has very quick feet for a big man. There is a lot of value in a center that can block shots, rebound, is a big lob target and can switch onto wings and stay with them.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#18
Something to ponder....

We've talked about moving down, but what about moving up to snag Ayton (assuming that he's going to be the #1 pick, which all signs point to)?

Obviously pick #2 is outgoing. But what would we have to throw in to make it happen without it being an overpay?

Personally, I'm cool with sticking with Doncic. But with rumors of us wanting to target a big with #2, I'm wondering if Vlade might not try to get hands on this draft's PRIZE big. Doncic might have a high floor, but Ayton's ceiling is through the roof.

WCS + #2 for ??? and #1 would probably be the starting point. A bit of a swing for the fences trade for sure. If Doncic ends up as good or better than Ayton, we lose. If Ayton reaches his massive potential and WCS continues to play like a spacey roll of charmin, we win.
Honestly you may well be offering up an incentive for Pheonix to do something they may be ready to do anyway. With the coach already sold on Doncic it is not hard at all to see the Sun's bucking conventional wisdom and picking Doncic. Either way the kings are in the catbird seat not having to make a decision and getting a piece they need either way why give up something?
 
#19
Willie has never had a J-Kidd level passed on his team inflating his stats.
Imagine the kind of impact Willie might have playing with LeBron ... or even a Chris Paul who used to set up the likes of Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan. Look at the connection Bogdan Bogdanović has made with him as a kind of a poor man's example.

Add in Willie's defensive abilities to switch and cover multiple positions and he could easily be a key component for a top tier team. He's one of those guys that is largely wasted on a cellar dweller because he's not an alpha scorer or lead player.

A player like Draymond Green wouldn't look near as good as he does if he was on a bottom tier team and was counted upon to be the team leader and to rebound and score more. He just doesn't have the game to be one of the lead horses. But when he's mixed in with all the talent the Warriors have, the guy piles up stats. That is an invaluable skill that not everybody has.

Now I get that WCS doesn't have Draymond's all-around skill. But IMO he compares with regard to how his impact would be heightened by playing with a lot of talent around him.

I believe a lot of Kings fans undervalue Willie as a key role player because we just haven't had a good enough team yet. I'll bet anything Trill could have really helped the Cavs tremendously this season. They need a few players like him.
 
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#20
Honestly you may well be offering up an incentive for Pheonix to do something they may be ready to do anyway. With the coach already sold on Doncic it is not hard at all to see the Sun's bucking conventional wisdom and picking Doncic. Either way the kings are in the catbird seat not having to make a decision and getting a piece they need either way why give up something?
I would be staggered if Suns didn’t pick Ayton. It should be a pretty clear pick for them. However, it is the Suns who have found a way to **** it up year after year so I am keeping my fingers crossed that they indeed don’t pick Ayton.

Logic and talent order dictates that they should pick him, especially that he also happens to fit their biggest need.
 
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#21
Imagine the kind of impact Willie might have playing with LeBron ... or even a Chris Paul who used to set up the likes of Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan. Look at the connection Bogdan Bogdanović has made with him as a kind of a poor man's example.

Add in Willie's defensive abilities to switch and cover multiple positions and he could easily be a key component for a top tier team. He's one of those guys that is largely wasted on a cellar dweller because he's not an alpha scorer or lead player.

A player like Draymond Green wouldn't look near as good as he does if he was on a bottom tier team and was counted upon to be the team leader and to rebound and score more. He just doesn't have the game to be one of the lead horses. But when he's mixed in with all the talent the Warriors have, the guy piles up stats. That is an invaluable skill that not everybody has.

Now I get that WCS doesn't have Draymond's all-around skill. But IMO he compares with regard to how his impact would be heightened by playing with a lot of talent around him.

I believe a lot of Kings fans undervalue Willie as a key role player because we just haven't had a good enough team yet. I'll bet anything Trill could have really helped the Cavs tremendously this season. They need a few players like him.
The probelm with WCS is that he sees himself as THE man and not a key role player. You are absolutely correct in saying he would be a great role player, could be one of the best in the league. If only he accepted his role which he clearly has no intent of doing. I hope we get Ayton in part because I don’t want WCS to be THE man on my team and ai certainly don’t want to pay him like one.
 
#22
WCS is highly overrated around here. Doesn't rebound, doesn't rim protect and his defense looks good because the rest of the team is so bad.

Willie is a solid team defender but he's terrible at switching on to 3 point shooters. He has the ability to stay in front of almost any 3 point shooter that tries to drive on him but he never closes out close enough to defend them. So they just shoot 3's right over him. I don't know if that's coaching or the player but it's infuriating to watch him only use half his tools. I could live with the rebounding woes if he protected the rim and closed out on shooters better.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#23
I would be staggered if Suns didn’t pick Ayton. It should be a pretty clear pick for them. However, it is the Suns who have found a way to **** it up year after year so I am kee,y fingers crossed that they indeed don’t pick Ayton.

Logic and talent order dictates that they should pick him, especially that he also happens to fit their biggest need.
Case in point, the Suns made the trade with us to get Marquis Chriss. Dumb deal.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#24
The probelm with WCS is that he sees himself as THE man and not a key role player. You are absolutely correct in saying he would be a great role player, could be one of the best in the league. If only he accepted his role which he clearly has no intent of doing. I hope we get Ayton in part because I don’t want WCS to be THE man on my team and ai certainly don’t want to pay him like one.
Didn't the Kings used to have a player with a similar line of thinking not too long ago?
 
#25
WCS is highly overrated around here. Doesn't rebound, doesn't rim protect and his defense looks good because the rest of the team is so bad.

Willie is a solid team defender but he's terrible at switching on to 3 point shooters. He has the ability to stay in front of almost any 3 point shooter that tries to drive on him but he never closes out close enough to defend them. So they just shoot 3's right over him. I don't know if that's coaching or the player but it's infuriating to watch him only use half his tools. I could live with the rebounding woes if he protected the rim and closed out on shooters better.
Traditional C's overpowered him in the paint but he does defend the perimeter and passing lanes well. Also his rebounding woes are exaggerated he's closer to league average at his position there. I'm in the keep WCS camp not because I think he's a star but he's still an overall solid C who I don't believe will receive big offers come RFA. Eventually KK's Kings tenure will end and we'll likely be thin in the front court.
 
#26
How far can the Kings get with great players at the 1-3, but the same old players at the 4-5?
I say 30 wins or so. In order for the Kings to get to the next level, they need a better player at the 4.
Giles could help but he is still an unknown. A lot of great players cannot take the physical pounding of the NBA.
 
#27
Traditional C's overpowered him in the paint but he does defend the perimeter and passing lanes well. Also his rebounding woes are exaggerated he's closer to league average at his position there. I'm in the keep WCS camp not because I think he's a star but he's still an overall solid C who I don't believe will receive big offers come RFA. Eventually KK's Kings tenure will end and we'll likely be thin in the front court.
I feel like he plays passing lanes well and defends the pick and roll well but he is in the bottom percentile when it comes to perimeter defense for a PF/C. Skal was actually in the top percentile when it came to defending the 3 for players his size. There's no reason why Skal should be better at perimeter defense than WCS. He almost never closes out to the 3 point line.

I wouldn't mind keeping him as a backup but the Kings aren't going anywhere with him as a 30mpg starter. Too many holes in his game. If he has any trade value, I would be shopping him this offseason.
 
#29
How far can the Kings get with great players at the 1-3, but the same old players at the 4-5?
I say 30 wins or so. In order for the Kings to get to the next level, they need a better player at the 4.
Giles could help but he is still an unknown. A lot of great players cannot take the physical pounding of the NBA.
We can survive with WCS/Giles/KK with good wing play. Fox becoming a good player, Bogdan playing like he did before he hit the wall, and Buddy playing like the buddy we saw after the break is pretty good. Now add in Doncic who could be a 20-7-5 guy