Dave Joerger

For next season... (up to 3 responses allowed)

  • Dave Joerger WILL be back (predict what will happen)

  • Dave Joerger WILL NOT be back (predict what will happen)

  • Dave Joerger SHOULD be back (your preference)

  • Dave Joerger SHOULD NOT be back (your preference)

  • Luck The Fakers!!! (Click this, obligatory)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Capt. Factorial

Hope heaves the worries!
Staff member
#1
Since it has clearly become the main topic of discussion since our playoff chances are diminishing, let's try to concentrate the talk about Joerger into one thread.

For context: At the beginning of the season, there was a thread on this website entitled "Are we actually the worst team heading into next season?" where the common consensus was that we were, if not the worst team, certainly one of the worst with or so - with only a very few objectors to that position. Now, we're at .500 three-fourths of the way through the season and following two tough games on the road we've got a stretch of seven consecutive winnable games, all while surpassing the Vegas over/under for the team in late January.

So, how about Dave Joerger?
 
#3
Let's be honest: the kings went above and beyond expectations coming into this season, and he deserves credit for getting the team to .500. But, I think much of that goodwill has been spent because the team had a good chance at ending their playoff drought and might have if not for his lineups.

On the other hand, he didn't make the trade. Vlade did. I think if no deal was made, the Kings would be in the 8th spot. Vlade was tweaking to improve, and the overall chemistry suffered. That doesn't excuse coach from playing guys out of position, but they had a good thing going and it was messed with.

With that being said, Kings have also dealt with injuries all season. What if Bogi wasn't down early? What if MB3 didn't go down? We won't know.

Lots of blame to go around, some to kismet, and some to the front office, and some to the coaches, and some to players. Let's not hunt for a scapegoat.

But IF that happens and he's let go, then who do they hire? Luke Walton?
 
#4
Yes, I know I contradicted myself. Should or should not? Above my pay grade. If Vlade gets rid of him, I'll go along with it and if he doesn't, ditto.
 
#5
Part of the reason that expectations were so low coming into the season was that 17/18 was a monstrosity of a season where broken-down veterans were emphasized on a rebuilding team and the players that now make up our future were badly misused. Good thing we moved on from *checks notes* Coach Dave Joerger. To his credit this year, he recognized his personnel and the changing state of basketball and picked up the pace, which has been a success.

His problem as a coach is that his decision-making happens on the scale of geological time periods. He makes a decision and needs overwhelming evidence over an excruciating length of time in order to change it. This is good for long-term strategy; you don't want to just change things up all the time for no reason. Certainly, the overall development curve of the team is positive. We can't know what all goes on in practices and coaching sessions, and there is no control testing group to see how players would have developed in another situation, but the fact is that our key young players are developing well, so I can only give Joerger credit for that.

Where slow decision-making is a detriment is on the smaller scale, during games and from game-to-game over the season. When I see a coach who is slow to act to cut bad momentum short, who fails to return to combinations that were working in a game, who fails to adjust to opposing coaches' adjustments, I am concerned. If you're playing Rock Paper Scissors and you know that, not only will your opponent throw Rock but will continue to do so for the next 20 rounds even if you throw Paper, you have a tremendous advantage. When I see a coach take a trade that should have been additive, shoring up a long-time team weakness, and uses it to fundamentally alter what the team has been doing for the worse, I am concerned.

Now, it could be that Joerger, after have a long think over the Summer, will come back next season with a brilliant scheme that incorporates our current and added personnel in a way that takes us up another level on the way to contender status. He's changed course before, so I couldn't put it past him. Maybe the roster weaknesses will be shored up to the point that the consequences of putting out the "wrong" lineup are not as dire.

I don't know whether the Kings should make a coaching change. There's no guarantee what we will get in return and maybe it screws up the long-term arc of development. I am concerned about how far we can go with this coach though. The playoffs, where we hope to go, are all about adjustments. From moment to moment, not from month to month. My gut is that we are probably stuck with him unless and until we reach a point where there are no more excuses and it is undeniable that the team should be achieving at a certain level, but we fail to do so. Chances are that I am going to be frequently frustrated for a while. Maybe if we're all lucky, it will pay off in the long run.
 
#6
I think we all know what happens when teams constantly shuffle coaches. We have gained an enormous amount of respect league wide from high profile players to coaches to media. Joerger is and was a part of that. I think he stays and stays easily. He has his quirks but most coaches do. Not everyone can be Popovich.

I think given an off-season and a new starting big man we will be just fine. Bagley got injured twice and Bogi has not been playing well. Buddy has also joined that club recently as well. Long term I think we will be fine. Baby steps folks.
 
#8
M
But, I think much of that goodwill has been spent because the team had a good chance at ending their playoff drought and might have if not for his lineups.
I think this is where we as a fan base are getting it wrong. The kings have been hovering around .500 for most of the year and have shown themselves to be a slightly above average team. We just aren't ready yet and most of that is due to inexperience. The Spurs, Clips and Jazz are all better teams at the moment. I thought we had a chance to get to 45 wins and make the playoffs but reality has set in and I accept that we just aren't there yet. Not only that, but 45 probably won't earn a team a playoff birth with the way things are going.

Nearly every fan base complains about rotations/lineups including those teams with Hall of Fame coaches. If I am Vlade, Dave is the coach of the Sacramento Kings next year.
 
#10
I think he’s done a very good job with this team, but there is also a part of me that is not 100% sold on him. I light of what we now see what we have with this team and the talent level (albeit young), I don’t see a reason why teams like LAC,SA, UT, DEN and even POR to a certain extent, are so far ahead of them. To me those teams are not better than the Kings, but they are more seasoned and there are some established stars there. So maybe we just need to let the team mature, or maybe I am just being too greedy on the heals of the success they’ve had this year. Or maybe I’m just rambling lol. I don’t think they should move on from DJ, just not sure if he’s the guy to get them to the next level, if that makes sense.
FYI it makes me sick seeing what Malone is doing up in DEN. Thanks PDA (although we probably wouldn’t have the core we have now)
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#11
I don't think Joerger is going anywhere. I think it's fair to say that the team has exceeded most peoples expectations. The reason some people are upset with Joerger is because they raised those expectations as the team started winning. I probably fell victim to that as well, at least on an emotional level. In my humble opinion, I think everyone's collar got tight as the pressure to win increased. The team entered uncharted waters with no experience, mistakes were made, and the ship started going down. I just love metaphor's!

Truth is, this is a learning experience that hopefully they'll learn from. They got here by playing as a team, and they seem to have forgotten that. When you shoot 28% overall, and 11% from the three (Buddy), maybe you should figure out a different way to help the team other than shooting them out of the game. This is what happens when you can see the prize and think you can go grab it on your own. Stop with the iso and start playing as a team again. Ball movement, player movement, and for god's sake, take the freaking open shot when you have it.

Playoff's or not, I hope they get their heads on straight, start having fun again, and finish the season strong. Man, is Fox good!
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#12
Currently I’m both completely annoyed and baffled at him... that said, he should get another year. And next season is make or break.

Stay stagnant, or regress and he doesn’t get any slack.
 
#14
Here's a scenario question I'm curious about:

If we had INSTEAD started the season slow, and then made a furious run at the 8 seed instead of doing the opposite (starting strong, fading), and finishing with the same record, would any fans and/or the FO be thinking differently about Dave?

Because I would bet a lot of people right now would be saying "He developed the kids and you can see during the 2nd half he's started to turn the team around!" Instead of the stagnation and "meh" attitude. We'd be all aboard the positivity train, and this thread would have been started due to "Wow love Joerger" instead of "Hmm...what about Joerger?"

I voted he will be back.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#15
considering where the Kings have been over the last decade with so many different head coaches and zero stability, it's a breath of fresh air to finally have a head coach that will provide some of that stability and he's only helped improve the team since his hiring. Kings fans tend to think there is always greener pastures elsewhere until they realize there isn't. I wonder, how many were calling for Malone's head when he wasn't much of a offensive coach and preached defense night and day. Joerger is here until Vlade is, in my opinion, those two go exclusively. Next season, I'd imagine the front office and fanbase alike, are expecting to make another jump and that's to finally get over the hump and make the Postseason, if Kings fall short, then maybe it's time to start re-evaluating other options, until then? let's stay the coarse and grow organically.
 
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#17
Here's a scenario question I'm curious about:

If we had INSTEAD started the season slow, and then made a furious run at the 8 seed instead of doing the opposite (starting strong, fading), and finishing with the same record, would any fans and/or the FO be thinking differently about Dave?

Because I would bet a lot of people right now would be saying "He developed the kids and you can see during the 2nd half he's started to turn the team around!" Instead of the stagnation and "meh" attitude. We'd be all aboard the positivity train, and this thread would have been started due to "Wow love Joerger" instead of "Hmm...what about Joerger?"

I voted he will be back.
I agree that Joerger may be a victim of this team's early success. It is true that this team exceeded Vegas win total predictions, but after almost a full season of playing well, I don't think that's the measuring stick anymore. Once the team traded for Barnes, it became clear that the focus is now on winning and not development.

Also, Clippers traded away their best player and got better. We upgraded our roster and stalled. It probably shouldn't have a direct impact on Joerger's job, but i'm sure ownership took note.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#18
It was management that traded for Barnes, not Joerger. It's not anyone's fault that things didn't work out as planned. Had Bagley not gotten injured, I don't think we'd even be having this discussion.

One other thing? How many times have we heard Grant/Doug say the Kings are getting good looks but their shots just aren't falling? I saw multiple occasions yesterday when there was absolutely no reason for the ball not to go through the hoop - but it simply didn't do so. That's not on Joerger either. His rotations reflect his attempts to find someone/anyone who can get a shot to fall at times like that. Bogs slump isn't helping either and that's also not on Joerger.

We are a team on the rise. We are FAR from being a finished product. This stretch run makes it pretty clear there's still work to be done, but it does seem we're heading in the right direction. Joerger deserves a lot of credit for that - more than he gets from some around here.

Neither Joerger nor Divac is going anywhere IMHO.
 
#19
He should be here for the foreseeable future.

We need to sort out Center and PF. That is a huge piece moving forward. Where does Bagley fit and what is our vision.
 
#20
It was management that traded for Barnes, not Joerger. It's not anyone's fault that things didn't work out as planned. Had Bagley not gotten injured, I don't think we'd even be having this discussion.

One other thing? How many times have we heard Grant/Doug say the Kings are getting good looks but their shots just aren't falling? I saw multiple occasions yesterday when there was absolutely no reason for the ball not to go through the hoop - but it simply didn't do so. That's not on Joerger either. His rotations reflect his attempts to find someone/anyone who can get a shot to fall at times like that. Bogs slump isn't helping either and that's also not on Joerger.

We are a team on the rise. We are FAR from being a finished product. This stretch run makes it pretty clear there's still work to be done, but it does seem we're heading in the right direction. Joerger deserves a lot of credit for that - more than he gets from some around here.

Neither Joerger nor Divac is going anywhere IMHO.
Agree with just about everything you said here. If you were referencing my post at all, I don't think what you said negates anything in my post.

My personal opinion is that Joerger should be back for continuity reasons. But the team has not given any indication that they are leaning one way or the other.
 
#21
Sometimes trading a good player kickstarts a team while adding a big new piece takes time to integrate. I imagine a lot of Clippers players got a jolt from the Harris deal and may be playing for their lives, while Barnes needs to work his way into a system. And how can Bagley's injury not be the most obvious thing here. The team has had two slumps this year and they corresponded with injuries to Bags. Without them I think we'd be a 6 seed right now.
 
#25
Firing the coach would set this franchise back again IMO. I don’t agree with everything Coach DJ does but he’s still a pretty good coach and this franchise isn’t far removed from a decade of instability. I think the best course of action is the status quo while trying to improve the roster during the off-season.
 
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#26
Currently I’m both completely annoyed and baffled at him... that said, he should get another year. And next season is make or break.

Stay stagnant, or regress and he doesn’t get any slack.
I also feel like next year is make or break for Joerger, or at least that is my knee-jerk reaction to questioning his future as coach. Upon taking a closer look, it really depends on the circumstances. Will the team be healthy? Will the west see the formation of two additional super teams? Will we get the absolute schedule from hell, while our direct competition for a playoff spot gets to add to their win column while hot-tubbing? One of or any combination of things like this could mess up next year, too.

One thing is for sure, I'm pretty sick of close losses and no playoff appearance. There is just no reason that the inexperienced, mediocre roster that the Clippers have should be outperforming us. Once we finally break through, I want a thirty year run of consecutive playoff appearances, a la the Jazz and Spurs.
 
#27
I think the Kings have more talent than the Wolves.
But, I think He Leaves for Minny.

I think Joerger is still having issue with Brandon Williams being in charge.
That situation was just swept under the rug. But, I am sure it’s still festering for Joerger.

Wolves are not that far from being a playoff team again. Still have KAT, Saric, Covington and 53mil In cap space.

Wolves could also offer Joerger the GM/coaching title.

Don’t be shocked if he does leave.
 
#28
I also feel like next year is make or break for Joerger, or at least that is my knee-jerk reaction to questioning his future as coach. Upon taking a closer look, it really depends on the circumstances. Will the team be healthy? Will the west see the formation of two additional super teams? Will we get the absolute schedule from hell, while our direct competition for a playoff spot gets to add to their win column while hot-tubbing? One of or any combination of things like this could mess up next year, too.

One thing is for sure, I'm pretty sick of close losses and no playoff appearance. There is just no reason that the inexperienced, mediocre roster that the Clippers have should be outperforming us. Once we finally break through, I want a thirty year run of consecutive playoff appearances, a la the Jazz and Spurs.

The Kings will find it harder to make the playoffs next year.
All of the core players will need to make a major leap to be a playoff team.

Dallas has tons of money, Porzingas and their pick
Spurs will add another piece or 2 to keep themselves in the playoff picture.
Wolves have a lot of cap space
Clips will probably add a star
Lakers not sure what direction their going in
 
#29
The Kings will find it harder to make the playoffs next year.
All of the core players will need to make a major leap to be a playoff team.

Dallas has tons of money, Porzingas and their pick
Spurs will add another piece or 2 to keep themselves in the playoff picture.
Wolves have a lot of cap space
Clips will probably add a star
Lakers not sure what direction their going in
Part of me wants to question why you would even add them to your response, the other part of me is happy that you ended your response by slamming them XD

I definitely understand your point, but we shouldn't discredit how good our own roster is. We have suddenly found ourselves drowning in young, very talented players who are capable of translating their ability to on-court performance. We also have a good mixture of notable veteran talent as well. To me, it really seems like both the inexperience of our young players and the unfamiliarity between our older and newer players may have gotten the best of us this year and kept us from becoming a playoff team.
 
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#30
I predict he will not return. This conversation above is occurring in the vacuum of what we see on the court, divorced from the reality of Dave's contract situation and the NBA landscape. Dave has one year left. No one likes being a lame duck, and teams don't like having a lame duck coach. Dave must be extended this offseason. Dave will likely demand four years guaranteed. After the post-trade swoon, I imagine the front office/ownership would not be comfortable with anything beyond a three year contract, with an option on the third year. Ideally, they would do a two year extension, with an option on the second year.

Given Dave's history, once talks stall he will request permission to interview with other teams, particularly the Wolves. In addition, he will demand that Williams be let go. Williams seems to be very good at his job. Also, Williams leaked, then Dave leaked, and Williams kept his head down for the remainder of the year while Dave and staff continued to act out. They even moaned to the media how "disrespected" they were that Vlade had Williams handle all of the staff extensions. That is extremely unprofessional.

Eventually, Vivek and the other owners are going to ask themselves, "Why are we negotiating with Dave and letting him make FO staffing decisions when the guy we really wanted three years ago, Luke Walton, is available, we have a perfect roster for him, and Vlade was teammates with him in 04-05?" This would not be a firing; this would be a mutual parting. Also, from listening to the national guys, I think the league would give a collective shoulder shrug about the move. IOW, this would not be like the Malone firing. Joerger is well regarded for his set plays on dead balls and coming out of timeouts, but the accolades end there. The rest of the league considers him to be pretty run-of-the-mill and a consummate office politician.