So the "rumors" are from the same source that nailed Egor to the Nets.
I have no clue what to make of it. They did go nuts on point guards last year but I feel like the NBA draft is wrought with hard learned lessons about what you do in these cases.
[Rumor] Dave: “Kings looking hard at Kingston Flemings”
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
I have no clue what to make of it. They did go nuts on point guards last year but I feel like the NBA draft is wrought with hard learned lessons about what you do in these cases.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
They went nuts on point guards in a class that was decidedly ‘meh’ on point guards. IMO any of the top probably six or seven guards are better prospects than all of the guys they picked last season but I can understand that they’re stuck in the whole “sunk cost fallacy” boat.
Last year's draft was pretty crazy because you had your top two, you had the "will Utah dare pick the guy ducking them?" storyline, you had the Suns, Pelicans, and Blazers all doing head scratching things that you almost forget that going into the draft one of the biggest questions was "No way are Nets going to pick all 5 picks are they?" and exiting the draft was "holy crap, they used all 5 picks and 3 of them play the same position!"
If they draft Ament there's gonna be some wild questions but maybe not because someone else is bound to do something even more newsworthy like get bullied by Rich Paul into drafting Koa Peat in the lotto or one of the consensus top 4 falls out.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
This is literally how I feel every single time I watch Ament.
Yeah I get he’s tall and hypothetically can be a big wing/forward but he’s not as explosive and inherently good at scoring as MPJ, can’t defend like Gordon, and can’t create for himself like Scottie Barnes.
This is where the new draft rules really take effect into team planning. Under the old rules, they could just basically "discard" their 25 draft and continue to draft BPA with the expectation they'd eventually hit a top 3 pick at some point. Now? You have to put the youth you do have into a position to succeed and hope they develop because tanking is dead to get into the top 5. Might be until 2030 that you even sniff a top 8 pick again, much less a top 3 that they've been tanking for.
It's why the Kings have to set up their team this off-season to make sure Nique/Carter/Cardwell/Raynaud/Pick 7 are in prominent every day roles. It's the only way out for us and if we continue to discard our young talent aside, it's no longer a guarantee we get anything back in the draft. Will Vivek eat $40 mil on LaVine so Carter and Nique can play every game? Will we hold off on signing another Russ (or just Russ himself) that doesn't block Acuff or Flemings getting 30+ from the jump? Will we actually let DDR go instead of him hogging the all the offensive USG for 40 games before he's dealt or bought out at the deadline?
Bringing Russ back in a low-minutes player-coach role specifically to mentor Acuff ("iron sharpens iron") might be the galaxy-brain move of the century, if he'd do it.
If Russ wants a more active "Udonis Haslem" role, absolutely. I think he's extremely good for the locker room and an excellent mentor to look up to for the young guys.
He's just not someone who should be a regular rotation player anymore. And I don't have a ton of faith in Doug to keep him in that "4th/5th guard emergency ball-handler" role at the end of the bench.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
We should be drafter for curling not who has a higher floor I’d take Brown over Flemming
That’s fine how many teams are actually running pure pg’s anymore we should be building a team with multiple ball handlers and creators anyways
If OKC is indeed thinking about moving up specifically to target Mara (and I really don't see who else they would trade up for given their roster is already so guard heavy), I personally think that's a mistake. They'd be better off getting a veteran PF/C to even out their roster instead. Someone who is going to improve the team from day one since the clock is already ticking on their contention window.
The counter argument here is that Sam Presti in particular has had a lot of success building through the draft and it does seem like they've come to the end of the line regarding what they can afford to pay for their stacked roster. One way to scale back player costs would be trading someone on a big contract (Chet Holmgren or Jalen Williams -- trading Williams makes more sense) and then replacing them with a cost-controlled rookie. Sort of a short-term step back in exchange for a better future in theory. But this could easily go the way of Golden State where that rookie doesn't really pan out and then they've only hurt themselves.
Regarding Acuff, he doesn't make a lot of sense fit-wise for Chicago at 4 (they just traded for Dillingham), LA Clippers at 5 (they just traded for Garland) or Brooklyn at 6 (they just drafted 3 PGs in the first round). But as we all know the draft is where we fall in love with who particular players could be if everything breaks right and Acuff is a guy that is fun to dream about maxing his potential. And some team that does need a PG could trade up to take Acuff. If Acuff is gone then Flemings seems like the pick at 7th. But since I'm such a Philon fan and not fully convinced that Wagler is anything more than a competent role-player in the NBA, I'd be open to a trade-down. Especially if both Acuff and Flemings are gone by the time we're on the clock.
The counter argument here is that Sam Presti in particular has had a lot of success building through the draft and it does seem like they've come to the end of the line regarding what they can afford to pay for their stacked roster. One way to scale back player costs would be trading someone on a big contract (Chet Holmgren or Jalen Williams -- trading Williams makes more sense) and then replacing them with a cost-controlled rookie. Sort of a short-term step back in exchange for a better future in theory. But this could easily go the way of Golden State where that rookie doesn't really pan out and then they've only hurt themselves.
Regarding Acuff, he doesn't make a lot of sense fit-wise for Chicago at 4 (they just traded for Dillingham), LA Clippers at 5 (they just traded for Garland) or Brooklyn at 6 (they just drafted 3 PGs in the first round). But as we all know the draft is where we fall in love with who particular players could be if everything breaks right and Acuff is a guy that is fun to dream about maxing his potential. And some team that does need a PG could trade up to take Acuff. If Acuff is gone then Flemings seems like the pick at 7th. But since I'm such a Philon fan and not fully convinced that Wagler is anything more than a competent role-player in the NBA, I'd be open to a trade-down. Especially if both Acuff and Flemings are gone by the time we're on the clock.
I like LAC as the best landing spot for Wagler. He's got an incredible amount of intriguing tools and skill-set with massive productivity, but I think he'll be better suited there where he can be a 3rd/4th option from the jump and a secondary playmaker. I think asking him to come to a team like the Kings and hand him the keys would be hard on his development.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yep, the league is purely about stars and then everyone else. They all basically run their teams offense. It's never really been different for the teams that were actual contenders or won rings for the most part. Brown has serious potential but if he is hurt or tops out at a Malik level then it would hurt. I guess it could be worth the risk if the Kings are choosing at 7 anyway. At the end of the day this is a group of flawed players and picking whichever one and having them turn out into something is almost entirely based on how a team uses them and whether or not they can stay on the floor. A team certainly shouldn't build around any of them IMO. Not yet.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He does have upside but yeah. If he did turn out then they will have indeed scored but he plays like a 6'10" guard. Always reminded me of Zaire Williams and maybe they see the same thing, lol.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
In that role of course. It would be mind boggling if he didn't end up on a contender next season. Here? We know he's chasing records. Part 2 of last season shall commence.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
All it takes is one team to see those little blips of what Mara does from time to time and see the potential if it comes together. The passing, shooting, etc. Edey went from a 2nd rounder is most peoples eyes to top 10 and is one of the better C's in the league right now. When he's actually dressed to play of course.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Okc can’t roster all their picks so maybe they aren’t targeting anyone, just bpa
We're talking about the Kings here.
The 7th pick will be Russ's backup. Guaranteed.
This is why I'm not super worried about Acuff's defense. He's shown that he does know how to defend in bursts when he's engaged and not drifting mentally. The goal then becomes getting him engaged mentally more often on that end of the floor which is certainly not an ideal quality in a prospect but is a little more hopeful than trying to find a role for someone who just physically can't match up with anyone at the NBA level.
But since Acuff being hopeless on defense is probably the only way he was going to be on the board still at #7, this kind of tape makes him less likely to fall to the Kings.
Don't get me wrong, I want Mara in the 10-15 range if we somehow get a second pick in the first round. And would even consider him at #7 if Acuff and Flemings are gone and there's no trade down available. I just don't think he's "the answer" for a team like the Thunder who are already in championship or bust mode every season with an MVP in his prime leading the team.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
How much worse can he be the Brunson whose leading a title contender right now
This version of the Knicks is a bit of an outlier in that they've got the defensive pieces (Anunoby, Bridges, Hart, Robinson) to make up for having one guy they need to hide on defense. Towns isn't a towering defensive presence, but he's been marginally positive on that end of the floor throughout his career (mostly through rebounding). And even some of their deeper bench guys like Alvarado and Sochan are defensive specialists. That level of team synergy is not easy to achieve.
But yes... that would be the blueprint if we are able to draft Acuff. Cardwell and Murray are already positive contributors on defense but we'd need 3-4 more plus defenders. And Acuff needs to be good enough on offense that we can then afford to sign those types of defensive specialists who aren't going to be putting up big PPG totals and know that we're still covered in the scoring department. And I think he will be.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, probably not an answer, but it depends on the question the Thunder need to answer. They are far different than Sacramento who are still looking for anything they could or should truly build around with nothing at 7 appearing even close that at this point. The Thunder are interesting in the sense that if Mara did end up becoming what he can become they stay at the top regardless of what other teams do and honestly, probably get better. Hartenstein is a solid role guy but Mara could potentially do some of the same things he does offensively while locking down the paint like Gobert 2.0. It would be different but one of those types of moves that championship teams make and cause people to keep wondering why they never seem to disappear.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The flaws in all the guards are pretty clear. Acuff is not a great athlete by any stretch which is pretty well substantiated in both combine results and the eye test but has a good solid frame and strength. Flemings is quick but doesn't have the frame or the physicality. Wagler is an unknown until his body fills out and he's not a great athlete either. Brown Jr. probably has the best physical tools but he's already got a back thing and is more of an upside type.
This does indeed appear to be a draft where you designate and rate players based on flaw, not what they do well. What they do well is also clear. The issue is where the flaws place them in the end, how much they can be mitigated, and how much they'd hurt their potential on the high side. If the Kings just needed a PG, then whatever, the Kings are so far beyond that it's not funny. That's why if the Kings could somehow dump some salary, move down, get a decent player and shoot for 2027 then they could be hedging bets in a much more dynamic way. Cap space could literally become a gold mine, especially with these draft changes. If a team can get multiple first round picks in any given draft using that space then that's where a team wants to be. When the Kings got locked all the way down at 7 that has to have changed Perry's plans. They are obviously outside of what is considered "the window" unless someone drops from that top 4.
I don't even know how to look at combine athletic results. Acuff was basically middle-of-the-pack in all of the athletic measurements except one - 3/4 court sprint, where he finished in first place. But if you compare Acuff's numbers to Darryn Peterson - considered a great athlete, right? - Acuff tied or beat him across the board, with the exception of coming up one inch shorter on Max Vert.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Is he considered that? Never really blew me away TBH. Always looked like Kawhi. Maybe it's the lack of emotion. It's all relative to size and what they do on the court I guess. Acuff's game looks like someone who doesn't wow you with his leaping or lateral speed. He's got power though. He's built like a running back. If I were a GM and looking for someone to be a 1 or 2 option? I'm taking strength all day. They should hold up over time and get to the line consistently.
Yeah, combine results are always something to be taken with a grain of salt to degree. Like the 40 inch verticals some guys pull out that shock people yet they don't jump over a phone book in the game. Or the big guy that can run around cones like a madman and can't keep anyone in front of him once the game starts. Most of the guards aren't that all around package of physical prowess this season. The quick guys lack strength, the strong guys lack quickness.
Well, he was viewed top-5 coming into the draft...
Do it, Clips! Do it! Then Ament to the Nets!
TaxMan
Starter
All indications were that Tyreke Evans was also physically dominating the last great draft batch of point guards….and he also incorrectly went too high in the draft.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Well, that's kind of hindsight and we know there were major issues off the floor now, but he did win ROY. Part of it is he was also caught in a league that was full on heading into a shooting era. Not good for someone of his ilk. This new era coming up could be very much built for a player like Brown Jr as it transitions away from a pure shooting era. In fact more than any other guard this year.
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