[Rumor] Dave: “Kings looking hard at Kingston Flemings”

[The_Jamal]

The thing is he wasn't supposed to be the alpha at Houston and yet at times he took over that role.

Now the Kings need an alpha, so that's a problem if he can't always be that guy. But aside from Acuff (who likely won't be there if Flemings is and vice-versa) who is going to be that guy at 7? You can make some pretty interesting fit arguments with other players in the draft but it's harder to argue their star potential, and that's where you ask yourself if trading down for OKC's two picks + Topic is a better answer (in which case I'm still drafting Flemings or Acuff and making it contingent on someone being there for us at 12, but I don't know who OKC wants in a top 10 pick).

Flemings role with one of the most veteran teams in college basketball showed all the "leadership" qualities on the actual floor. I think he's absolutely got the capacity to be gven the keys to a franchise and take that responsibility over.

It’s just a general rule of thumb. I wasn’t suggesting anybody. If you’re awful and untalented, don’t draft based on the way your roster is currently constructed. And BPA doesn’t mean the most NBA ready to me. It means who you think has the best chance to develop into a high impact player.

So I think these guards are projected to be the better players immediately, for good reason, but we know some forwards taken between 10-30 will end up being better players than some of these guards slated in the top 10

I’ve warmed up a lot to Acuff. So much so that I don’t see how he’s there at 7

I think we’re certainly counting on one or both of the Nets and Clippers to think drafting a forward or Center before any of the guards isn’t so crazy. Because if it’s true it’s all guards 5-9, then I don’t see why Acuff would fall to 7. He’s clearly the best of the lot. I don’t even think it’s particularly close.


And if Acuff is gone, I really don’t see a massive tier gulf between the group of forwards and guys like Mara, Landeborg(I know), Johnson, Ament, Perez, Steinbach, etc.

I’d probably still go Brown in that event but I’d probably not be confused if they took a forward or traded down to do so.

It can just be lingering sour grapes due to our position but I was lamenting in the main thread that I wasn’t that impressed with the board considering how people are talking about.

And I’ve definitely not been a Flemings guy during my highlight and breakdown watching.

Fair enough, I agree with all of this (except the Flemings analysis, who i have ahead of Acuff) Teams getting in serious trouble when they start drafting for need and fit over talent.

Maybe you've posted this somewhere, but why do you have Acuff so far ahead of the rest of the PGs?

 

[Kingz19]

Flemings role with one of the most veteran teams in college basketball showed all the "leadership" qualities on the actual floor. I think he's absolutely got the capacity to be gven the keys to a franchise and take that responsibility over.


Fair enough, I agree with all of this (except the Flemings analysis, who i have ahead of Acuff) Teams getting in serious trouble when they start drafting for need and fit over talent.

Maybe you've posted this somewhere, but why do you have Acuff so far ahead of the rest of the PGs?

Superstar level scoring. He can score from anywhere on the floor and efficiently. He’s also effective off the ball. He is an amazing passer and playmaker. Especially on lobs. Takes care of the ball. He’s an offensive machine.

I think out of Flemings, Burries, Wagler, and Brown. His floor is that of a 20-8 or so guy. But his ceiling can be even higher. Whereas I think the floor for them is considerably lower while also not really having higher ceilings.

There seems to be a lot of questions about his defense, I haven’t done much diving into that but I don’t see a player that lacks the tools or size. Perhaps he was coached not to exert himself defensively so I’ll hold out on that until he gets to the NBA level. Either way, I think his offense is in the “we will live with his defense” level if he is in fact a bad defender.

I also think his pretty neutral combine measurements combined with his polish will put him ahead of the others.

Obviously, Flemings wingspan has been talked about as hurting his standing. For good reason. Typically if you’re 6’3” you’re barely scrapping by the point of NBA teams thinking you’re too small. They usually want the wingspan to be atleast +3.

I didn’t think it was a big deal that Keaton Wagler didn’t dunk once last season and his vertical seemed fine, but then I saw he has relatively small hands and is just generally not that athletic.

Brown seems like the biggest boom prospect but I have questions about his decision making, practical point guard skills, and efficiency.

Acuff seems to be the Cam Boozer of the 5-9 guards. I think his neutral combine measurements. Nothing too standout but nothing alarming and his exceptionally high floor coupled with a sky high ceiling makes him being at 7 appear a long shot.

But I do think there is a good chance the Clippers go more shooting guard(Burries or Wagler) if not forward or big. Since they will be considering their current roster build

But I don’t think the Nets will care that they already drafted 3 points guards last season and I don’t see them passing on the scoring and passing. Two things they are terrible at

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2059648686179922240

 

[Light it up]

Honestly as I've been putting the Pick 7 thread back together I am just hopeful one of Acuff or Flemings is there. There has been little said about Wagler and MBJ as of late, unless someone does reach for Mara I won't be shocked if those are the two of the presumed top 8 we are left to choose from. Both remain interesting prospects but I'm a little more sold on Flemings being the engine of our offense or Acuff being an unstoppable scoring machine than I am that the others will be more than competent two way starters (still worse problems to have, but if these new lottery rules pass we're probably doomed to pick 7th or worse for the next decade).

I think Flemings will be there at 7. I think Wagler goes either 5 or 6. Most "experts" seem to have him ranked higher than the other guards except maybe Acuff and I can see LAC or Brooklyn being more interested in a guy that can play the SG position. Do the Clips plan on moving Garland to make room for Acuff? Cuz Garland and Acuff together is a weird fit. Brooklyn has 3 young pgs already that they are high on especially Traore, so do they pass on Acuff for Wagler or a big? Maybe Brooklyn goes big, they seem to be a total wildcard here.

But I'm kinda back n forth on Flemings and Brown. I think Flemings is a safer pick and Brown is a higher risk/reward prospect.

 

[KainLear]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2059648686179922240

Good thing I hit stop at only a minute, so I don't have to waste 4 more minutes of just pure unadulterated speculation.

Radio gig is tough.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think Flemings will be there at 7. I think Wagler goes either 5 or 6. Most "experts" seem to have him ranked higher than the other guards except maybe Acuff and I can see LAC or Brooklyn being more interested in a guy that can play the SG position. Do the Clips plan on moving Garland to make room for Acuff? Cuz Garland and Acuff together is a weird fit. Brooklyn has 3 young pgs already that they are high on especially Traore, so do they pass on Acuff for Wagler or a big? Maybe Brooklyn goes big, they seem to be a total wildcard here.

But I'm kinda back n forth on Flemings and Brown. I think Flemings is a safer pick and Brown is a higher risk/reward prospect.

Yeah, Flemings looks like a safer pick without the super high ceiling. Brown has a much higher ceiling just in terms of his physical potential but he wasn't the most efficient player by any stretch. Flemings is basically going to be one position defender at the next level. He's a pest defensively but he's certainly not a lockdown type and he gets overrated here and there. Brown and Wagler might have the capacity to play the combo role at times. If Wagler fills out he could even get minutes on the wing IMO.

 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah, Flemings looks like a safer pick without the super high ceiling. Brown has a much higher ceiling just in terms of his physical potential but he wasn't the most efficient player by any stretch. Flemings is basically going to be one position defender at the next level. He's a pest defensively but he's certainly not a lockdown type and he gets overrated here and there. Brown and Wagler might have the capacity to play the combo role at times. If Wagler fills out he could even get minutes on the wing IMO.

Thing is that I’m not sure Mikel Brown is a point guard at the NBA level.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yeah, Flemings looks like a safer pick without the super high ceiling. Brown has a much higher ceiling just in terms of his physical potential but he wasn't the most efficient player by any stretch. Flemings is basically going to be one position defender at the next level. He's a pest defensively but he's certainly not a lockdown type and he gets overrated here and there. Brown and Wagler might have the capacity to play the combo role at times. If Wagler fills out he could even get minutes on the wing IMO.

I don't understand the "Flemings is a floor pick, Acuff is the ceiling pick" narrative that's been going around.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Yeah, Flemings looks like a safer pick without the super high ceiling. Brown has a much higher ceiling just in terms of his physical potential but he wasn't the most efficient player by any stretch. Flemings is basically going to be one position defender at the next level. He's a pest defensively but he's certainly not a lockdown type and he gets overrated here and there. Brown and Wagler might have the capacity to play the combo role at times. If Wagler fills out he could even get minutes on the wing IMO.

This is exactly where I think Flemings gets a bit overrated. I've seen the Kings draft "pests" on defense recently - Davion, Carter - and Flemings doesn't hold a candle to their defense, not by the eye test. You watch those guys in college, and they're going all-out almost every possession just harassing the other team. Flemings doesn't remotely do that. Is he more active overall than Acuff? Yes. More effective at jumping passing lanes, sure. But nobody's going out there coaching against his D, nobody's scheming to move the point of attack away from his defense (in fact, he isn't the primary POA defender on Houston anyway).

Great defense is a factor. But I don't think I see a great defender in this guard class anyhow, and the difference between "maybe a bit better at defense" and "maybe a bit worse at defense" is just not much of a separator for me. Either you're a true lockdown defender, you're Jimmer-level bad, or it's more or less a wash for me.

 

[SacTownKid]

Thing is that I’m not sure Mikel Brown is a point guard at the NBA level.

He's got a solid pnr game from what I saw but who knows. Him having decent size makes him a safter bet if he has to be a combo G so at least he's got that. I never really got the hype on him but he had moments.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't understand the "Flemings is a floor pick, Acuff is the ceiling pick" narrative that's been going around.

Again, I don't know if any of these guys have a super high ceiling. If they did this would be a question of what the top 7 is, not the top 4. Acuff has enough on tape to show the ability to be the guy on a team and the opposing defense be darned. I've seen teams send hard shows and doubles up to Flemings and him slide the ball over to someone else. That might make Flemings a better player if Acuff is fools gold in the end, but different for sure.

I still don't think the separation amongst any of them is that great and they all have certain flaws whether it be physically, skill wise, etc. That's why in this kind of grouping the proper thing to do is analyze the flaws and see which ones pan out where historically relative to the expectation level of that archetype. I get why Perry would be looking at Acuff since this team doesn't appear to have a player that can be a number 1 option. Acuff types and Calipari have history in the league so it's more certain. The downside is if Acuff is this bad defensively and isn't a true star it's a bust, lol.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't understand the "Flemings is a floor pick, Acuff is the ceiling pick" narrative that's been going around.

I didn't watch every game but it so happened I watched every game of the second best team in the country. And Flemings was a beast when he played my team. I know, I know. I'm totally biased from small sample size, but he wasn't the guy I was rooting for. He sure seems like he just has an it factor. Does that translate to the next level? I don't know, but I really do feel like at the same time highlight packages don't quite cover his impact on the floor. Highlight packages are always selectively biased as well.

 

[The_Jamal]

I didn't watch every game but it so happened I watched every game of the second best team in the country. And Flemings was a beast when he played my team. I know, I know. I'm totally biased from small sample size, but he wasn't the guy I was rooting for. He sure seems like he just has an it factor. Does that translate to the next level? I don't know, but I really do feel like at the same time highlight packages don't quite cover his impact on the floor. Highlight packages are always selectively biased as well.

I watched 5 Houston games this year and Flemings stood out in basically every one of them. One thing I really liked was his performance vs ISU; he was fairly awful his previous 2 games (didn't catch them), but then found a way to be the best player on the floor vs one of the best defenses in the country (possibly the best) on the road. They didn't get the W, but he was damn impressive and I thought it really showed something for him to bounce back from those 2 previous horrible games and rise up in a premium match-up.

Add in he had coach Sampson's trust as a true freshman, he interviews incredibly well (seems like a super down-to-earth, humble kid that's ready to work. Was super impressed with the few times I heard him talk at the combine), he plays both ends. Completely agree on the "it" factor, sometimes you just see something and really believe that kid can be "it" going forward.

Should be noted that Flemings actually had a slightly higher AST% than Acuff too, which Acuff gets a ton of credit for being an elite playmaker, Flemings really doesn't:

Flemings: 32.6 AST, 11.1% TOV
Acuff: 32.2% AST, 10% TOV



Not the same scoring prowess, but Kingston also played both ends while Acuff... didn't. Also not trying to knock Acuff, I just think Flemings is going to be a better pro. I'd be ecstatic with either.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Flemings D get talked up quite a bit and deservedly so. But what impressed me how he was used on offense. Not #1 option or even #2 on very talented, known for its lock down Houston team D battling in the very tough Big 12. But when Flemings offense was needed stepped up many times like exploding for 42 pts on the road at then nationally highly rated Texas Tech.

List of his Freshmen season scoring and complete stats. If Kings pick Kingston at #7 it won't be a consolation prize but securing dynamic pure PG whose all about making everyone on the floor better.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/5149077/kingston-flemings

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I watched 5 Houston games this year and Flemings stood out in basically every one of them. One thing I really liked was his performance vs ISU; he was fairly awful his previous 2 games (didn't catch them), but then found a way to be the best player on the floor vs one of the best defenses in the country (possibly the best) on the road. They didn't get the W, but he was damn impressive and I thought it really showed something for him to bounce back from those 2 previous horrible games and rise up in a premium match-up.

Add in he had coach Sampson's trust as a true freshman, he interviews incredibly well (seems like a super down-to-earth, humble kid that's ready to work. Was super impressed with the few times I heard him talk at the combine), he plays both ends. Completely agree on the "it" factor, sometimes you just see something and really believe that kid can be "it" going forward.

Should be noted that Flemings actually had a slightly higher AST% than Acuff too, which Acuff gets a ton of credit for being an elite playmaker, Flemings really doesn't:

Flemings: 32.6 AST, 11.1% TOV
Acuff: 32.2% AST, 10% TOV



Not the same scoring prowess, but Kingston also played both ends while Acuff... didn't. Also not trying to knock Acuff, I just think Flemings is going to be a better pro. I'd be ecstatic with either.

It's just one of those things but felt like during the Arizona games even when he didn't have the ball the announcers kept talking about what he was doing the whole game. And that's with a loaded team that had 2 other guys that came into a top 5 preseason team with more hype. Not to mention all the other guys on the court that will be being drafted this year. I don't know if it is because their tourney run was disappointing, being a trendy 2 to the FF pick or what? Arkansas also lost in the Sweet 16 and Acuff did nothing to help his stock in that game either (imho).

 

[HndsmCelt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2059299531024744631

Better title: “ Kings consider consensus pick at 7”

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think that maybe you could also read into that the Kings will be very happy with whoever is at 7 and aren't interested in trading the pick up or down?

we should still be looking to buy additional picks especially knowing the new lotto format just passed.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2060408429567434999

 

[The_Jamal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2060408429567434999

I like Wagler a ton. He's absolutely got the ceiling where I wouldn't be surprised if he's the best player in this draft if everything broke right for him. The shooting and ability to draw fouls is really really special and something that usually translates super well to the NBA.

I just don't know how well he'd develop with us. Acuff or Flemings... they're the lead ball-handler, that's their job and there's no confusion in their role once they get here. But is Wagler a lead guard long-term? More of a Devin Booker type? I'm not entirely sure he's someone I can hand the keys to day 1 as the lead ball-handler/playmaker. And not that we should really consider them all that much, but it starts to get real murky when the rest of the guards on the team (LaVine/Monk/Nique/Dev) are basically in the same boat.

I would not be mad at all if we ended up with him, but he's probably 3rd right now on my list of that trio that I actually want.

 

[Kingster]

Flemings D get talked up quite a bit and deservedly so. But what impressed me how he was used on offense. Not #1 option or even #2 on very talented, known for its lock down Houston team D battling in the very tough Big 12. But when Flemings offense was needed stepped up many times like exploding for 42 pts on the road at then nationally highly rated Texas Tech.

List of his Freshmen season scoring and complete stats. If Kings pick Kingston at #7 it won't be a consolation prize but securing dynamic pure PG whose all about making everyone on the floor better.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/5149077/kingston-flemings

He didn't look great against Arizona in the game I saw. Quite average in fact. He had 8 points, 3 out of 12 in shooting, 7 assists. He had a low impact on the game overall. Arizona is probably as good of a comp as you're going to get for an NBA team because of their overall size and athleticism.

 

[Warhawk]

https://bsky.app/profile/mattgeorgesac.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3mn77fqlgx22u

 

[pdxKingsFan]

He didn't look great against Arizona in the game I saw. Quite average in fact. He had 8 points, 3 out of 12 in shooting, 7 assists. He had a low impact on the game overall. Arizona is probably as good of a comp as you're going to get for an NBA team because of their overall size and athleticism.

That was the tourney game, he was better in the regular season meetings. I wouldn't say he had limited impact though. His 7 assists was one shy of Arizona's starters and he had 5 boards too. But yes he had a poor shooting game in what was ultimately a 5 point game. I think Cenac's subpar game was what really killed them though. And don't forget that was his 3rd game in 3 days, and they had shorter rest between games. He averaged about 30mpg and he had a much bigger game against Kansas the night before as well as a very solid game against BYU two days prior.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Surprise? Maybe not. Flemings rated 3rd overall talent among upcoming top draft picks (Nate Silver NBA projections).

 

[Kingster]

That was the tourney game, he was better in the regular season meetings. I wouldn't say he had limited impact though. His 7 assists was one shy of Arizona's starters and he had 5 boards too. But yes he had a poor shooting game in what was ultimately a 5 point game. I think Cenac's subpar game was what really killed them though. And don't forget that was his 3rd game in 3 days, and they had shorter rest between games. He averaged about 30mpg and he had a much bigger game against Kansas the night before as well as a very solid game against BYU two days prior.

Third game in three days is probably a factor. After all is said and done, I view him like most guards in the NBA - a good three point shooting percentage is an absolute must for stardom.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Third game in three days is probably a factor. After all is said and done, I view him like most guards in the NBA - a good three point shooting percentage is an absolute must for stardom.

Outside of that game he was generally good from 3. Not Acuff. But a more well rounded player. If Lillard is the likely Acuff ceiling, Maxey is Flemings. Let's be honest, we desperately need either on our team and unless Wilson or AJ fall to 7 I don't think we can pass on whichever is left.

 

[Kingster]

Outside of that game he was generally good from 3. Not Acuff. But a more well rounded player. If Lillard is the likely Acuff ceiling, Maxey is Flemings. Let's be honest, we desperately need either on our team and unless Wilson or AJ fall to 7 I don't think we can pass on whichever is left.

I haven't seen enough of either to have a firm opinion one way or the other. The question I have on Acuff other than his defense is whether he is more like Monk in the ability to score, but not necessarily a great play-maker.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I haven't seen enough of either to have a firm opinion one way or the other. The question I have on Acuff other than his defense is whether he is more like Monk in the ability to score, but not necessarily a great play-maker.

I've seen enough to say I'm happy rolling the dice with either but would be unhappy if we packaged assets (aside from maybe a mid-2nd) to move up to get a pick of the 2. I do think Acuff can be the lead handler and distributor and is superior to Monk in that regard. Both are true PG with the potential to be a true upgrade from Fox's final form.

 

[SacTownKid]

Third game in three days is probably a factor. After all is said and done, I view him like most guards in the NBA - a good three point shooting percentage is an absolute must for stardom.

Attitude is as well and yes, the stats say getting to the line is mandatory. Kingston plays and approaches the game in a similar way to a Keegan Murray or Harrison Barnes which is possibly why he'll have games where he does just as they do and kind of fades into the background. He'll make the smart play and thus is one of the safter picks. However, on the flipside this is why someone like Brown Jr. likely has a higher boom possibility. He shows the flashes of something more. If he isn't though he could be useless at the next level. Kingston probably won't be useless even in a worst case.

 

[Kingster]

I've seen enough to say I'm happy rolling the dice with either but would be unhappy if we packaged assets (aside from maybe a mid-2nd) to move up to get a pick of the 2. I do think Acuff can be the lead handler and distributor and is superior to Monk in that regard. Both are true PG with the potential to be a true upgrade from Fox's final form.

I was also thinking Perry might trade up. He did it in the last draft.

 

[SacTownKid]

I've seen enough to say I'm happy rolling the dice with either but would be unhappy if we packaged assets (aside from maybe a mid-2nd) to move up to get a pick of the 2. I do think Acuff can be the lead handler and distributor and is superior to Monk in that regard. Both are true PG with the potential to be a true upgrade from Fox's final form.

Watch this meeting be about trading down. I saw Flemings comp'd himself to Cason Wallace (Wallace is far more physical and more well built but nowhere near the skill level of Kingston IMO) and the Thunder might need to be replace Wallace here soon. Interesting.