Crazy thoughts

#2
Flipping off the fan in the tunnel and saying "eff the Warriors" viral video sealed his fate with Vivek (who bleeds Warriors yellow). Emotional decision by Vivek who gave marching orders to Vlade to ship him out. Then Vlade negotiated poorly.

Judging from Vlade's presser today and the BS show on Grant's show, we will never know the truth.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#3
I agree that we'll never know the entire truth, and I do think Cousins rant and flipping of the Warriors fan had something to do with Vivek's decision to allow Vlade to trade Cousins. But from everything I've read or listened to, it appears that Vlade wanted to trade Cousins for some time, but couldn't get Vivek on board. Knowing what I know about Vlade, there's probably some truth about Cousins teammates not totally enjoying the experience of playing with Cousins. If may have come down to whether you want the immates to run the asylum of not.

All I'm saying is that it's possible that there's probably more than what meets the eye here. However, if I were going to trade Cousins, I think I could have negotiated a better deal. Why in god's name, would Vlade agree to the Pel's pick being top three protected? Worse case scenario is that the Pel's end up 10th or 11th in the lottery, and then get lucky and jump into the top three, and retain their pick, while at the same time the Kings jump into the first spot and then have to switch with Philly.
 
#4
All I'm saying is that it's possible that there's probably more than what meets the eye here. However, if I were going to trade Cousins, I think I could have negotiated a better deal. Why in god's name, would Vlade agree to the Pel's pick being top three protected? Worse case scenario is that the Pel's end up 10th or 11th in the lottery, and then get lucky and jump into the top three, and retain their pick, while at the same time the Kings jump into the first spot and then have to switch with Philly.
Yeah I agree. The argument, as CD is stating, is about what we got. It's SHOCKING how bad we did. Which is why I'm forced to consider malfeasance rather than mere incompetence.
 
#5
After having 1 full day to cool down, here's what I think went down:

Kings were always on the fence with trading Cousins. Vlade decided to give Cousins 3/4th of a year under Joerger to prove that he can change his ways and attitude. Starting off, I don't think Cousins is a good teammate. The guy tried to fight Stauskas on a plane. He's also a horrible leader. His demeanor and body language on the court has always been bad. The Kings were hoping that he could improve on the intangibles this year. Hoping he could show that he's capable of leading his team to the playoffs.
Fast forward, Cousins has a poor run-in with the media guys. He's involved in an off-court incident with Barnes. He received his 17th tech, and we're only at 3/4th of the season. He continues to show poor attitude on the floor. Staying back and arguing with refs. Not running back on defense. Not keeping his composure, etc. I think these problems this year, are a little over-looked because of recency bias. The Kings have gone on a hot, but unsustainable hot-streak.

Let's just start by looking at Cousins as a player. Yes he's a dominant force, but he's also extremely ball dominant. His offense requires a high usage, and low ball movement. When the ball gets to Cousins, it stops. Cousins is arguably one of the best passing big men, but he's a guy who does a lot of pre-determined passes. We see this happen when he gets the ball in the high-post, and all he's doing is standing there and scanning for players to get open. Other times, we see him attack the rim immediately after he gets a pass. He already has it set in his mind on what he's going to do before he gets the ball. He's not an instinctive passer who can fit in a Spurs or Warriors-type offense. It hurts because this is the trend that the NBA is headed towards.

Then paying him $200million for the next 5 years? I think that's an even harder pill to swallow. He's going to get the max regardless, but we'd be giving him a super-max, and I don't know if his contract would be tradeable.

Kings decided mid-way through the seasons that they wanted to move on. We didn't see much leadership growth from him. He became a much dominant player on the floor, but his attitude and all of the intangibles just weren't there. Kings planned on trading him.

Unfortunately, the rest of the NBA wasn't hot on Cousins at all. They all saw the same thing Vlade did. Talented player who's a immature headcase. We got crapty offers, and by the time rumors were out about Cousins being potentially traded, the Kings couldn't back out anymore. The more they waited, the more other teams would start low-balling. Buddy Hield+1st round pick was the best offer on the table, and the Kings took it. We all assumed that his value would be sky high, but in reality, it wasn't.

no real conspiracy... unless you want to think that the Kings are looking for Luka Doncic in next year's draft.

I think the Kings just didn't want Cousins anymore.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#6
After having 1 full day to cool down, here's what I think went down:

Kings were always on the fence with trading Cousins. Vlade decided to give Cousins 3/4th of a year under Joerger to prove that he can change his ways and attitude. Starting off, I don't think Cousins is a good teammate. The guy tried to fight Stauskas on a plane. He's also a horrible leader. His demeanor and body language on the court has always been bad. The Kings were hoping that he could improve on the intangibles this year. Hoping he could show that he's capable of leading his team to the playoffs.
Fast forward, Cousins has a poor run-in with the media guys. He's involved in an off-court incident with Barnes. He received his 17th tech, and we're only at 3/4th of the season. He continues to show poor attitude on the floor. Staying back and arguing with refs. Not running back on defense. Not keeping his composure, etc. I think these problems this year, are a little over-looked because of recency bias. The Kings have gone on a hot, but unsustainable hot-streak.

Let's just start by looking at Cousins as a player. Yes he's a dominant force, but he's also extremely ball dominant. His offense requires a high usage, and low ball movement. When the ball gets to Cousins, it stops. Cousins is arguably one of the best passing big men, but he's a guy who does a lot of pre-determined passes. We see this happen when he gets the ball in the high-post, and all he's doing is standing there and scanning for players to get open. Other times, we see him attack the rim immediately after he gets a pass. He already has it set in his mind on what he's going to do before he gets the ball. He's not an instinctive passer who can fit in a Spurs or Warriors-type offense. It hurts because this is the trend that the NBA is headed towards.

Then paying him $200million for the next 5 years? I think that's an even harder pill to swallow. He's going to get the max regardless, but we'd be giving him a super-max, and I don't know if his contract would be tradeable.

Kings decided mid-way through the seasons that they wanted to move on. We didn't see much leadership growth from him. He became a much dominant player on the floor, but his attitude and all of the intangibles just weren't there. Kings planned on trading him.

Unfortunately, the rest of the NBA wasn't hot on Cousins at all. They all saw the same thing Vlade did. Talented player who's a immature headcase. We got poopooty offers, and by the time rumors were out about Cousins being potentially traded, the Kings couldn't back out anymore. The more they waited, the more other teams would start low-balling. Buddy Hield+1st round pick was the best offer on the table, and the Kings took it. We all assumed that his value would be sky high, but in reality, it wasn't.

no real conspiracy... unless you want to think that the Kings are looking for Luka Doncic in next year's draft.

I think the Kings just didn't want Cousins anymore.
The writings were on the wall as soon as reports came out a few days ago about Vivek being open to trading him.
 
#7
I'm glad you made a thread to air some of the more out-of-the-box explanations for such an inexplicable move.

I have some ideas. ;)

* There is zero possibility IMO that Vivek is not the one who wanted Demarcus gone.
Between Vivek and Vlade, I think it's clear who wouldn't like Demarcus.
The fact that Vlade came out and immediately stepped on the grenade for Vivek and said Vlade made the decision, is clear evidence IMO that Vivek made the call.

* IMO, Vivek hiring Vlade was for this exact situation.
Vlade has (had) such goodwill from the fanbase that it protects Vivek from fan backlash from unpopular decisions like this.
This isn't a crazy thought, BTW - I predicted exactly this as soon as Vlade was hired, and claimed this was the main reason why Vivek hired Vlade.

* Here's the only whopper of a Crazy Thought this time:
The only way I can explain Vivek deliberately sabotaging the team and preventing them from getting to the playoffs TWICE in three years, is that Vivek doesn't want a Demarcus-led Kings team to make the playoffs.
This suggests to me that Demarcus at some point before 2015 got in Vivek's face and vowed that HE would lead the Kings to the playoffs, and it wouldn't be because Vivek was responsible.
Consequently, Vivek sabotaged the team by firing Malone as soon as they were turning around the national narrative by winning, and again sabotaged the team by pettily trading Demarcus right when they were getting healthier and likely to claim possession of 8th place (Denver coming up three times in the next 2 weeks).

tl;dr:
Vivek would rather hurt the franchise than allow Demarcus to lead Sacramento to a playoff berth.
 
#8
One thing that got my attention during Divac' conference was him mumbling about the agents.
Combined with the existence of the better offer two days earlier and the rumor that Cuz will not sign extension with any team seems that:

As soon as the Cuz agent found out about Cuz being shopped, he made sure to make it as difficult as possible for Kings to get a good deal by spreading uncertainty about Cuz resigning. Hence the offer was rescinded.



BTW, if Vivek is so Warriors oriented, he would not set them up to fight against AD/Cuz in the first round.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
One thing that got my attention during Divac' conference was him mumbling about the agents.
Combined with the existence of the better offer two days earlier and the rumor that Cuz will not sign extension with any team seems that:

As soon as the Cuz agent found out about Cuz being shopped, he made sure to make it as difficult as possible for Kings to get a good deal by spreading uncertainty about Cuz resigning. Hence the offer was rescinded.



BTW, if Vivek is so Warriors oriented, he would not set them up to fight against AD/Cuz in the first round.
Vlade got Feganed, pure and simple.
 
#10
If you listen to Woj podcast its pretty clear and obvious.

A) FO has been for trading Cousins for a long while
B) Vivek was not gonna trade Cousins, he has final say
C) Vlade and FO had resigned to this, thus public statements he would not be traded
D) Sequence of events a few weeks ago, cursing at fan, tech suspension, blowing out Celtics opened doubt in Vivek and FO pounced
E) FO came into all star break ready to take best offer
F) In actuality FO learned Cousins value(or at least what teams were willing to give up) was far less than they originally thought especially with agent saying he would not sign any extension with team traded to
G) FO took NO deal because they did not want to stall and give Vivek time to think twice, Vivek is super high on Hield.
 
#11
After having 1 full day to cool down, here's what I think went down:

Kings were always on the fence with trading Cousins. Vlade decided to give Cousins 3/4th of a year under Joerger to prove that he can change his ways and attitude. Starting off, I don't think Cousins is a good teammate. The guy tried to fight Stauskas on a plane. He's also a horrible leader. His demeanor and body language on the court has always been bad. The Kings were hoping that he could improve on the intangibles this year. Hoping he could show that he's capable of leading his team to the playoffs.
Fast forward, Cousins has a poor run-in with the media guys. He's involved in an off-court incident with Barnes. He received his 17th tech, and we're only at 3/4th of the season. He continues to show poor attitude on the floor. Staying back and arguing with refs. Not running back on defense. Not keeping his composure, etc. I think these problems this year, are a little over-looked because of recency bias. The Kings have gone on a hot, but unsustainable hot-streak.

Let's just start by looking at Cousins as a player. Yes he's a dominant force, but he's also extremely ball dominant. His offense requires a high usage, and low ball movement. When the ball gets to Cousins, it stops. Cousins is arguably one of the best passing big men, but he's a guy who does a lot of pre-determined passes. We see this happen when he gets the ball in the high-post, and all he's doing is standing there and scanning for players to get open. Other times, we see him attack the rim immediately after he gets a pass. He already has it set in his mind on what he's going to do before he gets the ball. He's not an instinctive passer who can fit in a Spurs or Warriors-type offense. It hurts because this is the trend that the NBA is headed towards.

Then paying him $200million for the next 5 years? I think that's an even harder pill to swallow. He's going to get the max regardless, but we'd be giving him a super-max, and I don't know if his contract would be tradeable.

Kings decided mid-way through the seasons that they wanted to move on. We didn't see much leadership growth from him. He became a much dominant player on the floor, but his attitude and all of the intangibles just weren't there. Kings planned on trading him.

Unfortunately, the rest of the NBA wasn't hot on Cousins at all. They all saw the same thing Vlade did. Talented player who's a immature headcase. We got poopooty offers, and by the time rumors were out about Cousins being potentially traded, the Kings couldn't back out anymore. The more they waited, t onhe more other teams would start low-balling. Buddy Hield+1st round pick was the best offer on the table, and the Kings took it. We all assumed that his value would be sky high, but in reality, it wasn't.

no real conspiracy... unless you want to think that the Kings are looking for Luka Doncic in next year's draft.

I think the Kings just didn't want Cousins anymore.
If it's a business decision to move a guy, then fine. My issue is the total lack of professionalism by the organization that led to this. Mgmt needed to figure out very quickly what their plan was and whether they wanted to keep Cousins or not. Should have done it 3 years ago. Maybe even this past summer. But how, why and when this went down and what the Kings got in return speaks to this organizations basketball IQ. They got played. They trapped themselves, plain and simple.
 
#12
.
BTW, if Vivek is so Warriors oriented, he would not set them up to fight against AD/Cuz in the first round.
I mean specifically in the fight for NorCal marketshare. Kings are the only thing that matters there. If Kings become a powerhouse, it cuts into Warriors market. If they are perpetual losers, Warriors can pick off a significantly portion of the fan base, especially young fans. Many of my friends kids root for the Warriors over the Kings.
 
#13
I heard this story before, about two years ago.

In both stories, FO wanted one thing (Malone/Cuz gone), Vivek was adamantly opposing it, then FO pounced at the moment of weakness (losing streak without Cuz/bad publicity + a good non-Cuz game) and Vivek showed a moment of weakness that FO exploited to get what they want - a deeply unpopular solution pushing Kings back for years.

While the story of the good guy Vivek (wants to keep Malone/Cuz) was fighting incompetent FOs, I find it more believable that both, PDA and Divac, are falling on the sword for their employer.
 
#14
If you listen to Woj podcast its pretty clear and obvious.

A) FO has been for trading Cousins for a long while
B) Vivek was not gonna trade Cousins, he has final say
C) Vlade and FO had resigned to this, thus public statements he would not be traded
D) Sequence of events a few weeks ago, cursing at fan, tech suspension, blowing out Celtics opened doubt in Vivek and FO pounced
E) FO came into all star break ready to take best offer
F) In actuality FO learned Cousins value(or at least what teams were willing to give up) was far less than they originally thought especially with agent saying he would not sign any extension with team traded to
G) FO took NO deal because they did not want to stall and give Vivek time to think twice, Vivek is super high on Hield.
Christ it's the blind leading the blind
 
#15
I mean specifically in the fight for NorCal marketshare. Kings are the only thing that matters there. If Kings become a powerhouse, it cuts into Warriors market. If they are perpetual losers, Warriors can pick off a significantly portion of the fan base, especially young fans. Many of my friends kids root for the Warriors over the Kings.
He could have sent Cuz to Lakers with the same effect, minus this year problem for the golden boys, there were two offers.
My comment was more of the joke, since it really does not matter anymore what Vivek wants/does... damage is done.
 
#16
If you listen to Woj podcast its pretty clear and obvious.

A) FO has been for trading Cousins for a long while
B) Vivek was not gonna trade Cousins, he has final say
C) Vlade and FO had resigned to this, thus public statements he would not be traded
D) Sequence of events a few weeks ago, cursing at fan, tech suspension, blowing out Celtics opened doubt in Vivek and FO pounced
E) FO came into all star break ready to take best offer
F) In actuality FO learned Cousins value(or at least what teams were willing to give up) was far less than they originally thought especially with agent saying he would not sign any extension with team traded to
G) FO took NO deal because they did not want to stall and give Vivek time to think twice, Vivek is super high on Hield.
This actually sounds plausible.

The anatomy of the worst trade in NBA history.

What's going to be hilarious is the complete 180 the media is going to do in how they talk about Cousins. Just watch. They'll have to ease into it a bit, but just watch. Cousins will become a media darling. I'm actually kinda happy for him.
 
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kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#17
I heard this story before, about two years ago.

In both stories, FO wanted one thing (Malone/Cuz gone), Vivek was adamantly opposing it, then FO pounced at the moment of weakness (losing streak without Cuz/bad publicity + a good non-Cuz game) and Vivek showed a moment of weakness that FO exploited to get what they want - a deeply unpopular solution pushing Kings back for years.

While the story of the good guy Vivek (wants to keep Malone/Cuz) was fighting incompetent FOs, I find it more believable that both, PDA and Divac, are falling on the sword for their employer.
that pretty much sums it all up in one sentence.
 
#18
I think the 1 game suspension for each technical foul thing was a huge deal on this. I think the team realized they couldn't count on Cousins anymore. Why pay a guy 200mil when you don't know if he will be available for you????

Would you pay an employee a lot of money who was unreliable? An employee who wasn't making your company all that great to begin with?
 
#19
My craziest thought is that, when forced to sell by the NBA, the Maloofs drew a line in the sand that they wouldn't sell to Ron Burkle because they disliked that he'd plotted with KJ to get the team. That concession by the NBA ended up subjecting Kings fans to a truly horrible owner. Oh wait, that happened.
 
#20
I think the 1 game suspension for each technical foul thing was a huge deal on this. I think the team realized they couldn't count on Cousins anymore. Why pay a guy 200mil when you don't know if he will be available for you????

Would you pay an employee a lot of money who was unreliable? An employee who wasn't making your company all that great to begin with?
I'd buy that Vlade was too dumb to do the math. But Cousins was on pace with the techs for a long time as the Kings kept going for broke. Then the owner abruptly changed course on a whim and despite the damage he inflicted chasing his other illogical plan. More of the same.
 
#21
I think the 1 game suspension for each technical foul thing was a huge deal on this. I think the team realized they couldn't count on Cousins anymore. Why pay a guy 200mil when you don't know if he will be available for you????

Would you pay an employee a lot of money who was unreliable? An employee who wasn't making your company all that great to begin with?
If that's the thinking, it is severely flawed. You don't trade a once in a generation talent because you can't find a way to work with some of his challenges, all the while promising him there is no issue, his place is secure, etc.

What you do is tell him how serious you consider the problem to be. You bring in people he trusts, such as vet teammates, to help communicate the seriousness of the issue. You basically have an intervention. You provide, and even require that he get counseling. That's why none of this adds up to me. Cousins himself, by every single indication we have thought his future was secure. This is just a horrible way to treat an employee that has shown such loyalty.

Now maybe those things were happening behind the scenes. I find that hard to believe. And VRuns record (Malone firing) would not support that.

Of course, if you don't want him here for, say, money reasons, the techs become a handy excuse.
 
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#23
My craziest thought is that, when forced to sell by the NBA, the Maloofs drew a line in the sand that they wouldn't sell to Ron Burkle because they disliked that he'd plotted with KJ to get the team. That concession by the NBA ended up subjecting Kings fans to a truly horrible owner. Oh wait, that happened.
Burkle would have been a dream.

What could happen though is a minority owner uprising.

Until that happens, I've released any qualms I have about insulting this ownership and front office. Sorry Vlade. You were supposed to be the adult in the room. You were supposed to be able to say no to VRuns because if you got fired you'd just say screw it and go be the president of Serbia or the head of the IOC.
 
Z

Zublocka

Guest
#25
Crazy thought would be this trade makes the Knicks FO/Owner look more credible than the Kings. These 2 franchises keep trying to outdo each other.
 
#26
I find it crazy that more than 3 Kings fans think this franchise can get back on track via player development and the draft as currently managed and owned.
The thing is what was the ceiling of Cousins surrounded by middling vets? Maybe its better for the long term if the franchise is forced to take drafts, scouting and player development seriously. I think the coaching staff we have can develop young players.
 
#27
My craziest thought is that, when forced to sell by the NBA, the Maloofs drew a line in the sand that they wouldn't sell to Ron Burkle because they disliked that he'd plotted with KJ to get the team. That concession by the NBA ended up subjecting Kings fans to a truly horrible owner. Oh wait, that happened.
"In a surprising move, Pittsburgh Penguins co-owner Ron Burkle had to remove himself from the group bidding to keep the Kings in Sacramento because of his ties to a sports agency."

Click link here--> http://www.humankinetics.com/inside...siness-weekly/nba-minority-owners-turn-agents
 
#29
Darkest thought?

Vivek just bailed on paying a guy 200 million. The team just got valued much higher than what was paid for it. Team taking on rookie contracts, ending contracts and will likely ship out vets. Hell, vets won't be coming here after this. Vlade just did a scorch earth on NBA agents.

You could see a lot of d-leaguers, young guys and Vivek trying to sell his shares rumors within a year. This isn't a team move theory, but we saw this playbook before with Maloof and it could be Vivek trying to cut costs, make a profit and bail out. Rather than lose control of the team for nothing, he'll try to create a bidding war before bowing out.
 
#30
Darkest thought?

Vivek just bailed on paying a guy 200 million. The team just got valued much higher than what was paid for it. Team taking on rookie contracts, ending contracts and will likely ship out vets. Hell, vets won't be coming here after this. Vlade just did a scorch earth on NBA agents.

You could see a lot of d-leaguers, young guys and Vivek trying to sell his shares rumors within a year. This isn't a team move theory, but we saw this playbook before with Maloof and it could be Vivek trying to cut costs, make a profit and bail out. Rather than lose control of the team for nothing, he'll try to create a bidding war before bowing out.
This kind of makes sense.

The money to be made on an NBA franchise is through appreciation, not revenue. And likely we are on the back end of a steep appreciation curve, so it would make sense for Vivek to get out within a year or two. At least that could be his thinking. I think that might backfire though because there could be pretty bad attendance next year.

I think after the shine wore off and his star tarnished, he started thinking about an exit strategy.