Brad back to Chi town for....Tyrus Thomas!

gunks

Hall of Famer
#1
I have a feeling this trade thread may get bashed a bit. Ah well. It happens to the best of them and I have a thick skin :eek:

Anyways....


I do believe Tyrus is out of favor with the bulls, almost to the point of being called a bust. Mostly because of his horrible offense. However he's only 22 (JT's age), hyper athletic, and plays that hussle sort of D.

His stats in 21 minutes per game:
6.4 pts (33% fg..ew), 5.4 rebs, .8 assists to 2 TOs (ew), 1 stl, 1.6 blks (yay!)

There were already rumors floating around that the Bulls covet Miller, but for some reason the trade fell through (we didnt want Noc I think). They could actually use him to help Rose out with the offense, and he may be the piece they need to push them over the top so they could get a first round exit (hah). Also, Miller helps them in '10.

We do it for 3 reasons:

1: We free up minutes at C for both JT and Hawes. JT would gain the most from this as he would be the primary backup for both Mikki and Spencer.

2: TT himself. At only 22 he has time to refine his offensive game working with Kevin's trainer Thorpe. But until he does (if ever) he'd primarily be used off the bench to grab boards, and get blocks and steals. He's a 3/4 tweener, so we'd be exchanging the logjam at PF and C for a logjam at SF. We'd probably have to move Salmons or Cisco. But we'd have a freak athlete on the roster who can come in off the bench when we need some boards or defense.

3: Ping pongs. We'd probably suck a bit more without Brad.



So the trade itself would center around Miller and TT. With some throw-ins necessary to get the salaries right. If it comes down to it I say we give them our second rounders if we get a contract that expires this year from them. Petrie wastes second round picks anyways haha.

Thoughts? Criticisms?
 
#2
I think the summer rumor was that they offerred Nocioni for Miller and we responded with Noc + Noah for Miller. It died there, but that's probably the most likely Bulls deal still from our side.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#5
TT is garbage. The new Stromile Swift.

I would also rather have the caps space then another average player in Noc.

And where was Noc mentioned in my trade proposal except as a killer of it?

TT is pretty bad offensively but we'd be doing the trade to see if he might improve a bit. Miller has no future here. It's one of those 'nothing to lose' moves.
 
#6
The problem with trading with the Bulls is that 1) we have absolutely no use for Nocioni and he's signed for a very long time and 2) Ben Gordon is basically untradeable because he has to sign off on a deal and would have to waive his bird rights, which isn't happening. Any trade would have to involve Larry Hughes. I would be ok with Brad/Shelden for Hughes/Thomas.

I agree with gunks that Thomas has potential. Maybe if he were on the Kings he and Garcia could pool their brain cells.
 
#8
And where was Noc mentioned in my trade proposal except as a killer of it?

TT is pretty bad offensively but we'd be doing the trade to see if he might improve a bit. Miller has no future here. It's one of those 'nothing to lose' moves.
My mistake. A deal involving Hughes would certainly be a acceptable way of shedding Millers contract.

I think there is better value then TT to be had for Brad. I would even prefer a late first over TT. Something along the lines of a Miller for Szczerbiak and a first round pick.

In theory its not a bad trade because it fits the requirement of either a pick, young player, or getting rid of a contract. I just don't think much of the prospect to be had.
 
#9
The problem with trading with the Bulls is that 1) we have absolutely no use for Nocioni and he's signed for a very long time and 2) Ben Gordon is basically untradeable because he has to sign off on a deal and would have to waive his bird rights, which isn't happening. Any trade would have to involve Larry Hughes. I would be ok with Brad/Shelden for Hughes/Thomas.

I agree with gunks that Thomas has potential. Maybe if he were on the Kings he and Garcia could pool their brain cells.
Could we do Douby instead of Sheldon? Helps balance the roster a bit more:

Hawes/JT/Williams
Moore/JT/TThomas/Greene
Salmons/Cisco/Greene
Martin/Cisco/BJax/Hughes
Udrih/BBrown/BJax

Then, if you want to open up more time for Thomas and Greene, you have to deal Moore and Salmons.
 
#10
Yeah. There goes this transition period, which particularly applies for upper echelon athletes who were drafted based on potential rather than for skill set, which we give players of that mold a couple years to develop. I'll give Ty Thomas some more time, and at 22 he still has an enormous amount of upside to tap, but there comes a time when you just have to realize that the prospect just cannot develop into a player, and Ty Thomas's three years of offensive stagnation (shooting %'s plummeted to hell this year) almost signifies that. He hasn't regressed, but he hasn't impressed, but when you're drafted that high your production has to increase accordingly, and he hasn't bumped ! Drew Gooden out of the way and taken the starting PF position by the horns. I'll give you this--it looks like he's trying, and that has worked defensively as he's averaging only 1+ steal, 1+ block per game, impressive by any metric given that he's only averaging 21 mpg. He's still living off his athleticism/potential now, but at least it's translating to something, and at least he's getting minutes--which puts him above other elite athlete busts ranging from Kedrick Brown to Gerald Green to Johan Petro to Saer Sene to any other Thunder center out there--but he'll always be remembered as the guy traded for LaMarcus Aldridge on draft day.

I'll give him this, though--it may not be all his fault, because it looks like the Bulls mistreat most of their young talent--their young talent shows flashes that never seem to be carried forward consistently, perhaps due to the nature of the player, but also perhaps due to horrible substitution/lineup patterns that vary from game to game. Thabo Sefolosha, Ty Thomas, Aaron Gray, Joakim Noah, and Cedric Simmons--four of these five were lotto to near lotto picks, but with the exception of Ty Thomas, all see < 14 mpg, despite those flashes; even Luol Deng's #'s have stagnated severely. I honestly don't think the environment is conducive for Tyrus's development much like Reggie's egomaniacal tendencies tend to stymy our very own JT from picking up minutes.

I've always advocated getting an athletic big with ups back here ever since we lost Keon Clark in the glory days, which was why I was quite optimistic with Justin Williams a couple years back. I do think that Tyrus has a bit of an ego which may come to bite him a la Stromile Swift and lead to a certain level of complacency, but there's no denying the athleticism, the laudable stealing/shotblocking combination, and as an added bonus, his shooting touch (even though it's a wreck right now). In terms of team needs, he's not a bad pickup, but I don't think the Bulls have any incentive to trade him now--despite his unimpressive play, he's still receiving minutes, the season is still young, the Bulls are mildly competitive.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#11
Tyrus Thomas would not fit in with what it looks like Petrie is building and I don't think his strong points come anywhere close to overcoming his flaws. I'd rather trade Miller for expirings and picks than a potential work-in-progress just to get the possibility of a couple of blocks off the bench. Sure, he might block the shot but if he's totally useless at the other end he's a liability more than an asset. And thinking he could get better offensively simply by working with Thorpe doesn't make sense to me.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#13
Tyrus Thomas would not fit in with what it looks like Petrie is building and I don't think his strong points come anywhere close to overcoming his flaws. I'd rather trade Miller for expirings and picks than a potential work-in-progress just to get the possibility of a couple of blocks off the bench. Sure, he might block the shot but if he's totally useless at the other end he's a liability more than an asset. And thinking he could get better offensively simply by working with Thorpe doesn't make sense to me.

But wouldnt picks amount to a work in progress? And probably not as good a prospect as TT considering the pick would be mid to late 1st round.

Granted he has a lot of flaws on one end of the court but we wouldnt be trading for "the possibility of a couple blocks off the bench". We'd be trading on the odd chance he could one day become a two way player. If it doesnt work out, oh well. He'd be coming off the bench and we'd just not resign him.

Honestly I think Miller for TT is a better deal then what we got for Bibby.
 
#14
Thomas is crap.. I have been watching him with the Bulls this year. His D is a bit overrated. He is average though. It actually depends on which position he guards though. If it's PF he can be muscled, and smaller quicker SFs can take him outside and go around him. He is good with help D though.

Offensively he is just a non-factor. Can't see him playing on the Kings. Or at least holding a roster spot. Unless the Bulls gave is a 1st rounder this year I would have to say no.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#15
I still think Tyrus Thomas is a stud. His defensive per minute stats are ridiculous and while his shooting percentages are down this year, they've been inconsistent throughout his career. I'm sure a reversion to the mean is coming -- which in this case would mean a hot streak and more reasonable overall percentages. But my impression of Thomas is based mostly on watching him play. Whenever I've seen him he's money on the jumpshot. His form looks great. I think the poor percentages would be easily fixed with good coaching. I would take a player like that in a heartbeat. Chicago should put him in the starting lineup every day, but they don't have a clue how to use their own players so they don't.

The only drawback with Thomas is that he isn't a traditional post player. His game is based on hustle plays and athleticism not power in the post. That makes it a little difficult to fit him into a lineup unless you already have a power guy at the C position or an oversized SF who can play in the post a little. Chicago is seriously deficient in post scoring so they put Gooden in there and they don't know what to do with Thomas. But that's their fault for trading Aldridge for him in the first place. They knew what they were getting.

I still don't see Chicago giving up on Thomas, but he is an undervalued asset at the moment which would be great to acquire if it's at all feasible. I doubt it.
 
Last edited: