Better Franchise Cornerstone: Fox, Bagley or Giles?

Who is the better franchise cornerstone?

  • De'Aaron Fox

  • Marvin Bagley

  • Harry Giles


Results are only viewable after voting.
#1
Look, we are getting to see lots of flashes from the 2 bigs and Fox has been the guy I personally thought he would be this year......but all 3 of these guys are going to keep expanding their games. All of these guys are so young, it’s exciting to see how good they have shown and what they might be together.

Fox, despite a bit of slide, looks to have that IT factor. Plays both sides of the ball with the potential to be on some all-defensive teams. If he develops a consistent outside shot.....stratosphere.

Bagley is putting up numbers now in somewhat limited time and he’s just scratching the surface on any type of offensive game. Improving on defense. From the subpar Summer League showing to the double double machine that was anticipated. Fairly sure that if he was getting 30 + minutes a game he would have similar numbers to Ayton. Same as Fox, if he develops a consistent outside and 3 pointer game, watch out.

Giles skill set sure does remind us of CWebb. What a passer. Starting to show touch around the basket, has attitude, someone else said it in some thread.....maybe he’s going to be our best player.

Just wondering what others might think about our guys....who is the cornerstone? Or is it going to be these guys are our big 3?

Or.....should Buddy Hield be in this conversation....and Bogi. Main reason I didn’t include them in the title was mainly age but it’s not like they are old and quite frankly, Hield has arguable been the best player on the team. I mean, Hield has become one of the best shooters in the league and his game keeps growing.

I’m not smart enough to add a poll if one of the mods wanted to add one.
 
#4
I think Fox is the best franchise cornerstone. He's basically the engine for the offense and he's already a solid defender.

If Bagley nets you 20 and 10 and Giles nets you 14, 8 and 4....I'd say Giles would be the more important of the two because I see him being a much better defender than Bagley. Sort of the same way in that I think Draymond is a lot more important to the Warriors than Klay is.

I think Bagley has higher odds of reaching his ceiling but Giles' ceiling is that of an all around great player that can fill up the box score from top to bottom. Either way it's a great place to be for us Kings fans.
 
#7
I think we're lucky to be able to have this conversation. There's a lot of talented youth on this squad; it seems foolish to try and create a divide among the fans. Then again, Kangz gonna #kangz.

A front court of Bagley and Giles after a few years would be the envy of many teams. Hell, it might be right now. And Fox? I'm so glad he's our overdrive Tony Parker. Can we just enjoy it and not Peja/Webber the board?
 
#8
Harry hasn't show me nearly enough to even be in this conversation. I'm still not understanding where the hype comes from. Very reminiscent of the hype Skal got. I doubt Giles will flame out like he did, but remember how much guys around the Kings raved about his shooting stroke? At one point people considered Skal our best prospect. I need to see more from Harry before we even talk about franchise player.

I think the better franchise cornerstone out of Fox and Bagley would be Fox...but that's only if he ever gets a jump shot down. He's not going to dominate this league without a respectable jumper. I also think he needs to be a lot more aggressive. When a couple shots don't fall, it's almost like he loses confidence in himself. He needs to develop an alpha attitude. He's a natural born-leader off the court, but doesn't know how to lead on the court yet. I think he's easily the best potential franchise player we have on this roster.

Bagley has too many holes in his game right now, but he has a lot of talent like Fox. Needs to develop his jumpshot, ball handling, right hand, and IQ. He has the alpha scoring mentality to be a special player though. You can tell he just wants to score all the time...but sometimes the ball sticks to his hands a little bit too much, but it's because he really wants to prove he's good enough.
 
#9
If Giles gets close to his potential he will eclipse fox and Bagley. As it stands we are building around fox and bagely with fox as our franchise cornerstone. That's the view within or we would have taken donic I am sure.

As Giles goes so will our championship aspirations because him and Bagley along with fox will spearhead our charge in years to come
 
#10
Can we just enjoy it and not Peja/Webber the board?
Yeah-no. This fanbase is OBSESSED with the next version of the 2002 Kings. It will always be a comparison. One that I hate too. That team didnt win(for whatever contrived reason). Why rehash old wounds and beg repeat? This fanbase should stop comparing each player to our "glory year" teams and just enjoy them as the are! It is so old to keep rehashing what (almost) worked.
 
#11
Yeah-no. This fanbase is OBSESSED with the next version of the 2002 Kings. It will always be a comparison. One that I hate too. That team didnt win(for whatever contrived reason). Why rehash old wounds and beg repeat? This fanbase should stop comparing each player to our "glory year" teams and just enjoy them as the are! It is so old to keep rehashing what (almost) worked.
Spike's actually referring to a period when some fans chose a side and bickered back and forth. When Webber was shipped, they quickly turned on Peja. Then it was Bibby.

While there may come a day where one of these guys gets in another's way, it's truly nice that at the moment, all of these guys compliment each other even if not are ready to start today.
 
#12
Harry hasn't show me nearly enough to even be in this conversation. I'm still not understanding where the hype comes from. Very reminiscent of the hype Skal got. I doubt Giles will flame out like he did, but remember how much guys around the Kings raved about his shooting stroke? At one point people considered Skal our best prospect. I need to see more from Harry before we even talk about franchise player.

I think the better franchise cornerstone out of Fox and Bagley would be Fox...but that's only if he ever gets a jump shot down. He's not going to dominate this league without a respectable jumper. I also think he needs to be a lot more aggressive. When a couple shots don't fall, it's almost like he loses confidence in himself. He needs to develop an alpha attitude. He's a natural born-leader off the court, but doesn't know how to lead on the court yet. I think he's easily the best potential franchise player we have on this roster.

Bagley has too many holes in his game right now, but he has a lot of talent like Fox. Needs to develop his jumpshot, ball handling, right hand, and IQ. He has the alpha scoring mentality to be a special player though. You can tell he just wants to score all the time...but sometimes the ball sticks to his hands a little bit too much, but it's because he really wants to prove he's good enough.
Personally I never understood the hype around Skal, although i'm not ready to give up on him just yet, especially with the improvement of players like Jackson.. Having said that, I think the main difference I see between Harry and Skal, is that Skal makes a lot of low IQ plays and is more out of control than not even with his physical assets. Maybe his limited minutes have something to do with it but I haven't seen much improvement game to game. (yet) Giles isn't perfect either, but he flashes brilliant (jaw dropping) IQ plays. Also, you get the sense that he is learning from his mistakes and getting better each game. Look at him at the beginning of the season and look at him now. I'm excited for this team as long as everybody stays healthy. Super team just young.
 
#15
Harry hasn't show me nearly enough to even be in this conversation. I'm still not understanding where the hype comes from. Very reminiscent of the hype Skal got. I doubt Giles will flame out like he did, but remember how much guys around the Kings raved about his shooting stroke? At one point people considered Skal our best prospect. I need to see more from Harry before we even talk about franchise player.

I think the better franchise cornerstone out of Fox and Bagley would be Fox...but that's only if he ever gets a jump shot down. He's not going to dominate this league without a respectable jumper. I also think he needs to be a lot more aggressive. When a couple shots don't fall, it's almost like he loses confidence in himself. He needs to develop an alpha attitude. He's a natural born-leader off the court, but doesn't know how to lead on the court yet. I think he's easily the best potential franchise player we have on this roster.

Bagley has too many holes in his game right now, but he has a lot of talent like Fox. Needs to develop his jumpshot, ball handling, right hand, and IQ. He has the alpha scoring mentality to be a special player though. You can tell he just wants to score all the time...but sometimes the ball sticks to his hands a little bit too much, but it's because he really wants to prove he's good enough.
It might be premature to talk about him being the best player but to compare him to Skal is insulting. Skal has always been weak mentally and one of the softest players on the team. Those two things will not allow him to achieve the level his talent dictates.

Harry though has been through far worse so far in his early career but his talent level is the highest on the entire team. His only weakness is strength. He’s got touch, tenacity, scoring, rebounding, and defending. If it wasn’t for his injuries, he wouldn’t be on our team. If he can reach anywhere near his potential the kid is an all star type talent easily.

Giles and Skal don’t belong anywhere near each other. Skal squandered away every chance given to him. He deserves his spot on the bench.
 
#16
Harry hasn't show me nearly enough to even be in this conversation. I'm still not understanding where the hype comes from. Very reminiscent of the hype Skal got. I doubt Giles will flame out like he did, but remember how much guys around the Kings raved about his shooting stroke? At one point people considered Skal our best prospect. I need to see more from Harry before we even talk about franchise player.

I think the better franchise cornerstone out of Fox and Bagley would be Fox...but that's only if he ever gets a jump shot down. He's not going to dominate this league without a respectable jumper. I also think he needs to be a lot more aggressive. When a couple shots don't fall, it's almost like he loses confidence in himself. He needs to develop an alpha attitude. He's a natural born-leader off the court, but doesn't know how to lead on the court yet. I think he's easily the best potential franchise player we have on this roster.

Bagley has too many holes in his game right now, but he has a lot of talent like Fox. Needs to develop his jumpshot, ball handling, right hand, and IQ. He has the alpha scoring mentality to be a special player though. You can tell he just wants to score all the time...but sometimes the ball sticks to his hands a little bit too much, but it's because he really wants to prove he's good enough.
I think it all depends on how you value BBIQ versus athleticism. Both Fox and Bagley have off the charts athleticism. No one is as fast as Fox end to end and I’m still amazed at how Marvin can miss a shot and put back his miss so quickly. Giles now has none of that athleticism. I think the target for Fox is a Westbrook and the target for Bagley is Amare Stoudamire

What Giles does have is off the charts BBIQ and the hands to maximize it. I think the target for Giles is Jokic.

None of this means Fox, Bagley or Giles are anywhere near their targets but nor do I think those targets are unreasonable. It’s anyones guess who of the three might hit it.
 
#17
I voted for Bagley
Not out of disrespect for Fox or Giles for I know Fox will be a star in this league for some time to come. I am truly excited for his next few years as he is still developing his game and he is going to work on more things and that is exciting.

Giles puzzles me and after seeing some things he did in the last games showed me he has unlimited potential but will his injuries hold him back from the potential he has.
The ice bags showed they are trying to stay on top of any potential problems and I think they have him on minute restrictions. I like the way they are bringing him along and with another off season to build strength I hope he maybe able to play 25 plus a night.
If he is going to be our starter we need him on the floor for at least half the minutes at his position and hopefully he will reach that point.

Now Bagley oozes star potential and for me I really have no idea what his ceiling is but it’s very high. There just maybe a few future hall of fame players from this draft and I at this point believe he just may be one of them.

I know we are all speculating about potential for these 3 players but I believe I am right in believing that having those 3 together will help all of them reach their potential.
 
#18
I voted for Bagley
Not out of disrespect for Fox or Giles for I know Fox will be a star in this league for some time to come. I am truly excited for his next few years as he is still developing his game and he is going to work on more things and that is exciting.

Giles puzzles me and after seeing some things he did in the last games showed me he has unlimited potential but will his injuries hold him back from the potential he has.
The ice bags showed they are trying to stay on top of any potential problems and I think they have him on minute restrictions. I like the way they are bringing him along and with another off season to build strength I hope he maybe able to play 25 plus a night.
If he is going to be our starter we need him on the floor for at least half the minutes at his position and hopefully he will reach that point.

Now Bagley oozes star potential and for me I really have no idea what his ceiling is but it’s very high. There just maybe a few future hall of fame players from this draft and I at this point believe he just may be one of them.

I know we are all speculating about potential for these 3 players but I believe I am right in believing that having those 3 together will help all of them reach their potential.
Bagley's athleticism skill and motor make my jaw drop sometimes. No argument here - but I voted Fox based charisma, vocal leadership and clutch track record. Both are great and Harry could be the runaway landslide pick this time next year. Everyone who laughed at "Superteam Just Young" needs to eat crow.
 
#19
Maybe the question is who will be the alpha or is it possible to have multiple guys leading? I think you can but it has to be the right combination of personalities. Giles has a bit of KG in him personality wise.
 
#20
Harry hasn't show me nearly enough to even be in this conversation. I'm still not understanding where the hype comes from. Very reminiscent of the hype Skal got. I doubt Giles will flame out like he did, but remember how much guys around the Kings raved about his shooting stroke? At one point people considered Skal our best prospect. I need to see more from Harry before we even talk about franchise player.
I mean, I bought into Skal's silky smooth jumper, but it didn't take long to see that that was all he had in the toolbox. Dude seemed to actually regress.

Giles is on the opposite end of the spectrum BBIQ-wise. He's gonna get pushed around by the heftier bigs until he packs on some muscle, but his growth has been scary good now that the big leagues have slowed down for him. Especially when one considers how long he's been out of the game.

I agree that he won't be our franchise guy (I'm still all in on Fox, despite the recent play - his shot will come around, and then it's over), but in a few years he's gonna be filling up the stat sheet.

The only thing I'm worried about with Harry is that Embiid will eat him on Saturday. That dude is freaking massive.
 
#21
They all have major flaws which can be overcome with a few years of work.
Fox can't reliably hit the 3 and doesn't put his stamp on games often. Have to have that as a pg and leader.
Bagley doesn't pass well, takes some questionable shots, and is not strong enough to maintain position.
Giles is a foul machine, makes a lot of mistakes, and can't reliably hit the 3. I mention the 3 point shooting with Giles because we believe our future is Giles at the 4 and Marvin at the 5. Fox needs a stretch 4 to succeed.
A lot of "ifs" for this question, but right now I'd take Bagley because he doesn't necessarily have to pass. His flaws are the least detrimental. I like Giles the best though.
If Fox and Giles can shoot the 3 ball, even if it's just around 36%, we will definitely win a championship. I am so damn excited for our core to start together!
 
#23
No argument here - but I voted Fox based charisma, vocal leadership and clutch track record. Both are great and Harry could be the runaway landslide pick this time next year.
Charisma is a great stat to have if you're a bard. It's debatable how well it translates on the basketball court though.
 
#26
To answer this question seriously it's without a doubt Fox. He's a three ball away and some seasoning from being a +4 on offense. Neither Giles or Bagley have that potential in my opinion.
 
#27
I’d have to know the reason for Fox’s descension as the season has went on. Physique or motor? Not clear to me now.

If it’s physique, and as he gets stronger he’s more capable of playing 82 at a high level, I’d have him 1. If it’s motor, I’d have him lower

I feel Buddy should even be on here. I think he can even improve on what he’s doing now
 
#28
The answer is probably Fox based on his skillset and current landscape of the NBA with guards dominating. He has the ability to not only make teammates better but also change the entire style of the game both offensively and defensively. I'm starting to question his motor just a little too but I think that's mostly lack of strength and he's wearing down. It's also his second year in the league and I'm not sure he feels entirely comfortable yet playing with aggression and truly commanding his teammates. With that said I think it's pretty obvious that Fox doesn't have Buddy's motor (who does?) or Bagley's motor........but in general most starting PG's don't need that kind of motor and need to be more cerebral with a feel for flow of the game.

Bagley is not a franchise cornerstone. No matter how much potential and athleticism he has, he's never going to be true #1 that can get his shot whenever he wants it. More importantly he doesn't create shots for others. He may turn out to have leadership skills but he's not the type of player to "lead an offense". He could very well be super inside scorer and finisher. Best case scenario is the Amare Stoudemire and Chris Bosh comparisons. Prime Amare was the ultimate finisher and almost impossible to stop when paired with a great PG.

Giles is the wild-card and I don't think any of us (including Giles) himself really know what Giles potential/ceiling is yet. Giles natural skills and basketball IQ are incredible (especially for a 20 year old big man). Bagley is a better athlete with the higher motor but no question Giles is a smarter player that you can build an offense around and run the offense through. He can absolutely make teammates better and a guy like Bagley could really benefit from having two elite playmakers creating easy shots for him.

I don't think Giles is a natural high volume scorer though. The Webber comparisons are pretty accurate in terms of body, hands, and skills but I don't think Giles will ever be quite as comfortable being a 20-25 PPG scorer. He really likes to pass which will hamper his own offense and I don't think he's a natural aggressive finisher like Bagley is. Even when he's playing well Giles still comes off as a bit too robotic to me as well, he doesn't just get the ball and go like true scorers do. Giles could very easily be a 16-19 PPG scorer though and when you combine that with Fox, Bagley, and Buddy that should be more than enough. As usual the only big question with Giles is whether his knees are going to hold up and all we can do is hope for the best.
 
#29
I received a note from the admins that my little joke caused a flare up and they were forced to delete some posts, including mine. I'm sorry about it. It was a joke, as the smily at the end suggested, and I didn't mean to cause any uproar or added work for the mods. Just making a public apology, and don't intend to hijack/sidetrack the thread again. Hopefully this post does not invite additional comments, and we can revert to the topic.

Speaking of which, I'll pick Bagley. I think he has the least question marks of the three, and has shown a lot more in his rookie year.
 
#30
Harry hasn't show me nearly enough to even be in this conversation. I'm still not understanding where the hype comes from. Very reminiscent of the hype Skal got. I doubt Giles will flame out like he did, but remember how much guys around the Kings raved about his shooting stroke? At one point people considered Skal our best prospect. I need to see more from Harry before we even talk about franchise player.

I think the better franchise cornerstone out of Fox and Bagley would be Fox...but that's only if he ever gets a jump shot down. He's not going to dominate this league without a respectable jumper. I also think he needs to be a lot more aggressive. When a couple shots don't fall, it's almost like he loses confidence in himself. He needs to develop an alpha attitude. He's a natural born-leader off the court, but doesn't know how to lead on the court yet. I think he's easily the best potential franchise player we have on this roster.

Bagley has too many holes in his game right now, but he has a lot of talent like Fox. Needs to develop his jumpshot, ball handling, right hand, and IQ. He has the alpha scoring mentality to be a special player though. You can tell he just wants to score all the time...but sometimes the ball sticks to his hands a little bit too much, but it's because he really wants to prove he's good
The answer is probably Fox based on his skillset and current landscape of the NBA with guards dominating. He has the ability to not only make teammates better but also change the entire style of the game both offensively and defensively. I'm starting to question his motor just a little too but I think that's mostly lack of strength and he's wearing down. It's also his second year in the league and I'm not sure he feels entirely comfortable yet playing with aggression and truly commanding his teammates. With that said I think it's pretty obvious that Fox doesn't have Buddy's motor (who does?) or Bagley's motor........but in general most starting PG's don't need that kind of motor and need to be more cerebral with a feel for flow of the game.

Bagley is not a franchise cornerstone. No matter how much potential and athleticism he has, he's never going to be true #1 that can get his shot whenever he wants it. More importantly he doesn't create shots for others. He may turn out to have leadership skills but he's not the type of player to "lead an offense". He could very well be super inside scorer and finisher. Best case scenario is the Amare Stoudemire and Chris Bosh comparisons. Prime Amare was the ultimate finisher and almost impossible to stop when paired with a great PG.

Giles is the wild-card and I don't think any of us (including Giles) himself really know what Giles potential/ceiling is yet. Giles natural skills and basketball IQ are incredible (especially for a 20 year old big man). Bagley is a better athlete with the higher motor but no question Giles is a smarter player that you can build an offense around and run the offense through. He can absolutely make teammates better and a guy like Bagley could really benefit from having two elite playmakers creating easy shots for him.

I don't think Giles is a natural high volume scorer though. The Webber comparisons are pretty accurate in terms of body, hands, and skills but I don't think Giles will ever be quite as comfortable being a 20-25 PPG scorer. He really likes to pass which will hamper his own offense and I don't think he's a natural aggressive finisher like Bagley is. Even when he's playing well Giles still comes off as a bit too robotic to me as well, he doesn't just get the ball and go like true scorers do. Giles could very easily be a 16-19 PPG scorer though and when you combine that with Fox, Bagley, and Buddy that should be more than enough. As usual the only big question with Giles is whether his knees are going to hold up and all we can do is hope for the best.
I’m just going to pretend you didn’t just draw a equivalency between the upside of Giles versus Skal. I just can’t even....