As far as I'm concerned, the Maloofs do not want a downtown arena

[Purple Reign]

I have come to the realization that the Maloofs want to stay in Sacramento but right where they are in North Natomas. Where they will have the exclusive rights of everything (parking, concessions, revenue from dates, the whole nine....) Think about it. If you have been to The Palms in Las Vegas, it is off the strip with very little competiton in their little area. And I think they are doing quite well.

I think they would rather build it themselves for half the cost, with their own handpicked developers, than to bow down to a bunch of backward thinking politicians that can't get anything done and a friggin developer from Atlanta that is looking only to line his own pockets.

Measures Q and R are dead as far as I am concerned. And it may be for the best. However I think the railyard redevelopment ain't going to happen without an arena secured with an anchor tenant and thet is a crying shame. We here in Sacramento deserve the best. But the residents in this community including the politicians can not think beyond nickels and dimes. I just hope Joe and Gavin have a Plan B to keep this team in Natomas where I am starting to think they belong.

Sorry for the pessimisism.

 

[ShatteredVision]

Anchor the railyard development with another kind of "Arena".

NFL, MLB, NHL, any takers?

Only thing is, I could imagine how parking would be a big problem for NFL or MLB...

 

[Bricklayer]

Anchor the railyard development with another kind of "Arena".

NFL, MLB, NHL, any takers?

Only thing is, I could imagine how parking would be a big problem for NFL or MLB...

No, No, and maybe.

If you think that Sactown being unable to supporta NBA franchise is going to make other major league sports eager to hop inot the market...well, ain't going to happen. And the baseball and football arenas take up far more space and I would imagine cost even more. And of course hockey shoudl really be in the same building as the NBA. No point in losing your NBA team and then building an equivalent building to get the NHL of all things. Nor are NHL owners going to dish oiut more cash than NBA guys -- their financial system is so broke they recently lost an entire season because the teams were losing so much money.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Excellent points Brick. I couldnt agree more...and with the timetables given for the Railyards, anyways, I dont think we could lure any other leagues to come here in the first place. And I doubt that the city/county could put their heards together for long enough to come up with something productive like that in the first place. Right now we have to worry about keeping the ONE team we still have...as out of our hands as the whole process may be at the moment.

 

[JB_kings]

I don't think we are at critical mass yet with the arena situation. A lot will be determined after the election when Q & R are officially shot down. And all indications are that they will. I think this spells the end for the railyard development and that's too bad.
But I am convinced more now that the Maloofs want the arena built on the city's 100 acres next to Arco. The items they are digging their heels in on can only be solved by building in Natomas. It's not the best thing for downtown, but it might save the Kings. The city and county better be working on plan B in their spare time because if they put all their eggs in the railyard basket, we are doomed. Natomas has always been the easier and cheaper site to build on. It just does little to help downtown and Natomas doesn't need any help anyway. I even heard Steve Cohn on 1140 Saturday talking about it being easier to get it done next to Arco. I thought at first he was just blowing smoke to help Q & R get shot down, but that really doesn't need his help anymore. He's seen the max that the Maloofs are willing to go financially and most of the hard details about the physical building are now known values. It wouldn't be hard to resurrect a plan B out of this and find another source of finance. My suggestion would be to use city and county wide taxes on hotels, rental cars. It would mean long term financing and high interest, but it doesn't hit Sacramento resident pockets. The land for the site is better than free. There is more room than needed for a new arena. Which means free land and some left over to kill off the some of the debt needed to get this going.
This is only dead if we stop after the November vote.

 

[ShatteredVision]

The Natomas Site I think was originally expected to be a real Sports Complex when Arco II was built. There's even an exisiting foundation for a baseball stadium.

Although as the years went on, I think that area is looking to be more residential than it is commercial...

When they build a new arena, I think it's going to be either something like Dodger Stadium (lots of freeway access and parking spaces) or Madison Square Garden (dense/vibrant surroundings, strong infrastructure and less reliance on people driving). The latter is unlikely in California unfortunately.

 

[nebs]

So are you guys voting on Q & R anyway or just Q or neither.. just kind of curious.

I just got my sample ballot this weekend.

 

[Warhawk]

Yes on both - they can sort it out later.

 

[BigWaxer]

I don't think we are at critical mass yet with the arena situation. A lot will be determined after the election when Q & R are officially shot down. And all indications are that they will. I think this spells the end for the railyard development and that's too bad.
But I am convinced more now that the Maloofs want the arena built on the city's 100 acres next to Arco. The items they are digging their heels in on can only be solved by building in Natomas. It's not the best thing for downtown, but it might save the Kings. The city and county better be working on plan B in their spare time because if they put all their eggs in the railyard basket, we are doomed. Natomas has always been the easier and cheaper site to build on. It just does little to help downtown and Natomas doesn't need any help anyway. I even heard Steve Cohn on 1140 Saturday talking about it being easier to get it done next to Arco. I thought at first he was just blowing smoke to help Q & R get shot down, but that really doesn't need his help anymore. He's seen the max that the Maloofs are willing to go financially and most of the hard details about the physical building are now known values. It wouldn't be hard to resurrect a plan B out of this and find another source of finance. My suggestion would be to use city and county wide taxes on hotels, rental cars. It would mean long term financing and high interest, but it doesn't hit Sacramento resident pockets. The land for the site is better than free. There is more room than needed for a new arena. Which means free land and some left over to kill off the some of the debt needed to get this going.
This is only dead if we stop after the November vote.

Nice post JB... its about what I am thinking also.

Personally I don't mind a Natomas site, I think it has more financial advantages for all sides. They can spend the same amount of money and have 10x the arena or spend less and still build a better arena. Not sure how they will do that, and now any type of tax has to wait until 2008. Which is the part I am most concerned with.

How would they be able to use existing taxes? What would have to be done to be able to do that? I am not sure on that topic so if anyone knows please share

Don't get me wrong a downtown arena would be great for this area. Natomas wouldn't be bad either.

Just from all the talks recently it seems they (MSE) are leaning towards staying at the Natomas site.

 

[Bricklayer]

He's the irony for the "no on Q & R" types -- the ONLY way the arena initiatives can cut into their oh so important services and special interest pork, is if they defeat Q & R and force the city/counties to dig around and fund the whole thing with money out of existing taxes. The 1/4 cent (1/4 cent!!!) increase pays for all that without touching existing services. Now see what happens if the area has to come up with $400-$500 mil out of existing taxes. Yippee.

People are dolts.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

He's the irony for the "no on Q & R" types -- the ONLY way the arena initiatives can cut into their oh so important services and special interest pork, is if they defeat Q & R and force the city/counties to dig around and fund the whole thing with money out of existing taxes. The 1/4 cent (1/4 cent!!!) increase pays for all that without touching existing services. Now see what happens if the area has to come up with $400-$500 mil out of existing taxes. Yippee.

People are dolts.

Ding Ding Ding!! INDEED!

 

[BRad1055]

I am voting yes on Q and R because I think this would make downtown awesome, but do I think it will pass? At this point no. I have not said it on here, but I have said all along I think it will ultimetaly get built next to where Arco is now. I do not see Q and R passing, but I do not think if it doesn't pass this is the end of the line for a new arena for Sacramento because I do not think the NBA would want to lose this market because of the loyal fan base and in this day and age in sports the support and love that this community shows to the Kings is very very rare.

 

[BMiller52]

I am voting yes on Q and R because I think this would make downtown awesome, but do I think it will pass? At this point no. I have not said it on here, but I have said all along I think it will ultimetaly get built next to where Arco is now. I do not see Q and R passing, but I do not think if it doesn't pass this is the end of the line for a new arena for Sacramento because I do not think the NBA would want to lose this market because of the loyal fan base and in this day and age in sports the support and love that this community shows to the Kings is very very rare.

If the people don't love the Kings enough to pay basically a cup of coffee per month to keep them in town than really how loyal is Sacramento?

 

[VF21]

^^That's just silly. It's not about loving the Kings. It's about a ill-conceived, poorly designed campaign to get voters to approve something they really know nothing about. Love and loyalty have nothing to do with it.

 

[GoGoGadget]

People are dolts.

And that's pretty much the answer/explanation for all of life's questions.

 

[Purple Reign]

Supporters for Arena Measures Denied Access to Fandemonium
Written for the web by C. Johnson, Internet News Producer

It was the first opportunity for Kings fans to see their team in the new season. It also pointed up the breakdown between the team's owners and backers of a ballot tax measure to bring a new arena to Sacramento.

Fans came to see the 2006-2007 Sacramento Kings, coaches, Royal Court Dancers and mascot Slamson during Kings Fandemonium Sunday evening at ARCO Arena.

Despite the hoopla and enthusaism, there was one thing very much missing from the rally. There was no sign of Measures Q & R. The initiatives seek a quarter-cent sales tax increase in Sacramento County for the next 15 years to pay for a sports-entertainment complex. The expectation is the Sacramento Kings and Sacramento Monarchs would play at the new facility.

However, on September 5, negotiations over a downtown railyard arena site broke down between the Maloofs, owners of the two franchises and the city and county of Sacramento. More than a week ago, city and county representatives submitted a revised proposal to the Maloofs. There has been no response yet from the Kings owners.

It appears the two sides are still very much at odds. Doug Elmets, spokesman for the "Yes on Measures Q & R" campaign, said Maloof Sports and Entertainment rebuffed its request to set up campaign information tables at Fandemonium. Elmets said he fears the action shows the Maloofs have quit supporting the entire concept of a new arena.

Maloof Sports and Entertainment representatives denied the accusation. News10 tried to speak to Gavin Maloof to get a sense of how he felt on the subject, but his representative said Maloof was there Sunday to support the Kings and would not talk about Measures Q and R.

"Of course that's not a good thing," said Sandra Smoley of the Yes on Measures Q & R campaign. "We feel they should be arm in arm with us working for the passage of this."

The Kings organization denied any intentional snub. MSE President John Thomas told News10 no one ever called him to ask about a Yes on Measures Q & R presence at Fandemonium.

 

[Bricklayer]

The Maloofs are either the stupidest owners alive, or I smell a rat of some sort. Everything you can possibly do wrong in a political campaign, they've done. Every opportunity, has been missed.

 

[G_M]

The Maloofs are either the stupidest owners alive, or I smell a rat of some sort. Everything you can possibly do wrong in a political campaign, they've done. Every opportunity, has been missed.

Based on what I've seen so far I've come to the following conclusion. The Maloofs either have a backup plan which includes private financing in the Natomas area or they are moving the team. There is no way Q and R will pass at this point and I'm sure they know that. So, it's just a matter of CYA with the league and making something happen privately.

The simple explanation is usually the right one.

 

[JB_kings]

They have done a lousy job of covering their tracks if their true intent was to move. The transparent way they have gone about undercutting this deal has to make even David Stern cringe. If they announced a move a few months after the vote, they would roasted alive by the national media.

 

[Purple Reign]

The Maloofs are either the stupidest owners alive, or I smell a rat of some sort. Everything you can possibly do wrong in a political campaign, they've done. Every opportunity, has been missed.

It is a rat. It is not about as far as i am concerned. The bottom line is The Maloofs are not on board here. Now in my opinion, if they have a plan B, it better be privately funded, because they are not going to get one red cent from this community, after this nonsense.

 

[VF21]

My heartfelt belief is there is a rat, and his name is John Thomas.

 

[Purple Reign]

My heartfelt belief is there is a rat, and his name is John Thomas.

Talk to me about John Thomas. How is it he is so influential in this. He is only the President.

 

[VF21]

He was also instrumental in the initial negotiations between the Houston Rockets and the city of Houston. The talks were fraught with him walking out of key meetings, putting up road barriers, refusing to compromise at any juncture, etc.

I don't know THAT much about John Thomas, but what I've seen doesn't impress me much. He might be a hard-nosed businessman - and he has long-established ties to the Maloofs - but he's NOT doing the arena effort much good at all.

In Houston, nothing was done until he was removed. The first referendum went down in flames. Only after Thomas was gone did things change. The NBA sent reps, the local governmental entities AND the team found ways to work with each other instead of always butting heads, etc.

Someone else mentioned they wished Steinberg could have continued representing the Maloofs. I agree. I think he would have done a much better job for ALL concerned.

 

[kennadog]

Someone else mentioned they wished Steinberg could have continued representing the Maloofs. I agree. I think he would have done a much better job for ALL concerned.

That would be me. Just as the city needed to get rid of the former city manager on their side, I think the Maloofs need to get rid of John Thomas, if they hope to ever get anything done with local government on an arena deal. John Thomas has had years to get this done and he hasn't. (just like Houston) The local politicians have been their usual inept selves, But I blame Thomas, too, for no deal.

If the Kings want to keep John Thomas as an employee, fine, but keep him as far away as possible from any arena negotiating.

 

[BigWaxer]

This entire thing really upsets me and from reading here lately I think a lot feel the same way. I just don't get this at all.

We have had months of spirited debate and some good education on this board. IMO I feel both sides/opinions at Kings Fans.com have done there job (however small it may be). More has been discussed here then in the public and that is the sad part just a few weeks from election!

This all seems like lip service by the Maloofs at this point. It looks like intentional sabotage to the measure. Road block after road block they have tossed up. These are not actions of people that want to stay here.

It is also having a big affect on I would say the middle to hardcore fans. The casual fans could care less either way. I am so upset about all this right now, its taking the excitement right out of the season for me, as like everyone here its kind of an emotional investment in a team.

Should be an interesting few months. I am just frustrated and venting sorry

 

[nebs]

They have done a lousy job of covering their tracks if their true intent was to move. The transparent way they have gone about undercutting this deal has to make even David Stern cringe. If they announced a move a few months after the vote, they would roasted alive by the national media.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Merdiesel]

If your at Fandemonium, your most likely going to to vote yes on the new Arena. How about tageting the people who might not vote yes...

 

[kennadog]

I'm depressed about the whole thing BigWaxer.

On the other hand, this still was a step that could be in the right direction. Its not like nothing got accomplished. At least both sides did actually negotiate something. At least each knows more about where the other side stands.

Of course, that could mean a new arena is doomed, because there is no way to bridge the gap. My feeling is this deal was negotiated at 11:55 PM, when the deadline was midnight. Probably doomed it from the start, because there was no time to negotiate every finite detail essential to a successsful deal.

Honestly, I don't think the Maloofs want to leave Sacramento, altho Sacramento is running out of time. I also can't stand the way the Maloofs have been vilified and the rank class hatred that's been fanned by the media and the anti-arena folks. To me its as bad as people who villify poor people for being poor or immigrants for being immigrants.

Who wants to stay where they're made to feel despised for being who they are? And this, after you've done a great deal of good for the community?

What I do believe is the Maloofs don't want the arena downtown. If the city persists in saying it can only be downtown, even after this vote, it may indeed present an insurmountable roadblock.

Since the city has failed to do anything with railyard development for decades, I'm not sure I blame the Maloofs. And if the site comes with restrictions the Maloofs feel will reduce revenue for a team already financially strapped just by being located in Sacramento at all, I can't really blame them either.

At this point, I think the arena should be built in Natomas. Far less roadblocks to hurdle, likely less expensive, no third-party developer to deal with, no uncertainties about how soon construction could start and a fair amount of money has already been put into infrastructure. At some point the city has got to decide if it really wants the franchise to stay and, no, I don't mean at any cost. I mean want them to stay by not trying to jam a downtown site down their throats.

Would I rather have it downtown? Yes. I really don't like an arena that is in the midst of acres of asphalt. If its going to be there, then I think the planned light rail line to the airport should have an arena stop, perferably right next to the arena. But I think Natomas is the only realistic answer.

 

[VF21]

I'm depressed about the whole thing BigWaxer.

On the other hand, this still was a step that could be in the right direction. Its not like nothing got accomplished. At least both sides did actually negotiate something. At least each knows more about where the other side stands.

Of course, that could mean a new arena is doomed, because there is no way to bridge the gap. My feeling is this deal was negotiated at 11:55 PM, when the deadline was midnight. Probably doomed it from the start, because there was no time to negotiate every finite detail essential to a successsful deal.

Honestly, I don't think the Maloofs want to leave Sacramento, altho Sacramento is running out of time. I also can't stand the way the Maloofs have been vilified and the rank class hatred that's been fanned by the media and the anti-arena folks. To me its as bad as people who villify poor people for being poor or immigrants for being immigrants.

Who wants to stay where they're made to feel despised for being who they are? And this, after you've done a great deal of good for the community?

What I do believe is the Maloofs don't want the arena downtown. If the city persists in saying it can only be downtown, even after this vote, it may indeed present an insurmountable roadblock.

Since the city has failed to do anything with railyard development for decades, I'm not sure I blame the Maloofs. And if the site comes with restrictions the Maloofs feel will reduce revenue for a team already financially strapped just by being located in Sacramento at all, I can't really blame them either.

At this point, I think the arena should be built in Natomas. Far less roadblocks to hurdle, likely less expensive, no third-party developer to deal with, no uncertainties about how soon construction could start and a fair amount of money has already been put into infrastructure. At some point the city has got to decide if it really wants the franchise to stay and, no, I don't mean at any cost. I mean want them to stay by not trying to jam a downtown site down their throats.

Would I rather have it downtown? Yes. I really don't like an arena that is in the midst of acres of asphalt. If its going to be there, then I think the planned light rail line to the airport should have an arena stop, perferably right next to the arena. But I think Natomas is the only realistic answer.

I want to thank you for taking the time to type all that out... and for making it possible for me to just say "What she said!"

I agree all the way down the line. Nice post, kennadog.

 

[Arena Skeptic]

Yeah, John Thomas... Why in the world did the Maloofs do that? Thomas has already been fired for one botch job, so why hire him to perform the same tasks for you? Did anyone do a reference check, for Pete's sake??

The huge gaps in opinion between the proposed JPA, the developer and the Maloofs really and truly could have been predicted, but only if you were in the room negotiating. Then when Thomas Enterprises says the land is worth $5.5 million an acre (I'm sorry, UP TO $5.5 million), I'd ask him how many offers he's had for land at that price, especially considering he doesn't own it (and might never own it!). The City can't go around building 5 acre parking lots when the land costs that much, especially since that price hasn't been tested in the marketplace. That's an expensive parking lot.

I mean, gosh, I drive a nearly 11 year old Nissan. It's been a great car. So, it's worth $14,000. If you don't want it, buy a different car.

I first met Fong at Cal Middle School in about 1973. Yes, I'm that old. He is wicked, insane smart. And he's also pretty abrasive. He's aware of that. In this case, I don't think that personality served Kings fans well.

In any case, I urge folks to read the terms of this deal. The terms sheet contains a silver bullet clause that it is void if there's no MOU by October 6. I really think this definitive silver bullet voids the outcome of the vote on November 7; that no matter how the vote turns out, the opponents, who will certainly sue, drag out that document the parties signed on August 2, and say, "See? They agreed to this."

The other possible outcome: It can still pass, but none of the terms that have been publicly discussed are valid? The Maloof contribution? Unknown. The size of the parking lot? Unknown. Ditto for every single clause folks have argued; as if the terms sheet and attachments just doesn't exist.

It should be interesting.