Amateur ESP? Hardly, but my thoughts on Petrie

[Catalyst]

First off, Petrie has never been known to be a knee-jerk reaction GM. He takes his time coming to decisions and thinks them through. I believe if the Kings continue to struggle, you're going to see some changes in the roster before the trade deadline. As this is like 3-4 months off... we've got quite a bit of time for this team to gel.

Obviously, hey, we're two games in against two very good teams on a very difficult back to back road trip. Regardless, a lot of people have predicted turmoil and problems for the Kings this season, and the reasons have been talked about endlessly. You can bet for sure Petrie is aware of these same issues, and figures the Kings will overcome them and things will fall into place. And he's a more than willing GM to give them time to do just that. Petrie has proven he's patient and has a lot of faith in his players...

Now to look at the Dark Side.

--IF-- the Kings don't gel as a team, and they're still struggling in another 2-3 months from now, I think the Kings will have proven to Sacramento management that they're not a championship-quality basketball team this season. I believe winning a championship(s) is Petrie and the Maloof's main agenda, but not to the point of completely sacrificing their future by trading guys off that could have a huge impact for years upon years to come.

So, this leaves Sacramento in an odd spot. Who can you trade and who can't you? Here's a quick run down from my evalutation of what Petrie has done in the past....

Brad Miller: If Sac could find a player who would return equal value for this guy in a trade, I'd be amazed. Hard to find a center THIS good in the league, period.

Mike Bibby: How do you trade your best playoff performer and all around great PG? You don't really. Especially for a team that's had trouble in the playoffs.

Doug Christie: Doug is another one that's difficult to see Sacramento moving. He fits this offense so well, and he's an outstanding defensive player. Although he's 34 years old, his contract is up after this coming season. Also a good playoff performer, and all around great guy to have on a team, hard to see Sac moving him. Plus, Sac gains cap room for the future by holding on to him, and a good deal of it.

Chris Webber: How many PFs in the league are there that get you 20 points, 10 rebounds and 4 assists and fit the offense you run like a glove? Hrm, KG? Last I heard, Minnesota wasn't interested in dealing him. The short answer is that Sac isn't going to get a PF in return for Webber that gives us what he does. People can dislike him for whatever reason, but it's just about impossible to move Chris and get a PF back that contributes what he does.

Peja Stojakovic: Asked to be traded? Not playing all that great? Consistently suck performances in the playoffs? Hrm, yeah... If there's a guy that has "trade bait" written all over him, it's #16. The problem, oh yeah.... he's REALLY freaking good. So good in fact, that in trading him, you risk making one of the worst mistakes a GM can make. Giving up on a guy with franchise-level talent. Still... when all is said and done... this is the guy most likely to be changing sides in the war. When someone asks to be traded, and if your season isn't going the way you planned, it's only a matter of time before you start looking at some options.

Bobby Jackson: Unfortunately, another guy that 'could' be traded. Peja's contract isn't really going to equal out to a star player's deal in a trade, but add in Jackson's and we're a lot closer to things equaling out. BJax still has a lot of upside, and a lot of game left in him, but Sac already has a starting PG, so trading Bobby would be one of those "Only if we have to things." One of the last people I'd personally want to trade, and hopefully Sac can avoid this, and I know Petrie will try VERY hard to. Petrie doesn't give up the pieces he has easy.

Greg Ostertag: Hey, that's not a bad contract you have there. Wait, wait, wait. I get Peja in this deal, and I ONLY have to take on Ostertag's deal? Where do I sign?

Darius: A pretty solid player, and one of the few big men that provide us with actual depth and what we need. Toughness, rebounding and some solid scoring. Darius isn't a guy that Petrie will want to move.

Bench: Courtney Alexander, Barnes, Evans and Daniels are all guys that could be thrown in to a possible deal, again to help the salaries match. I think Barnes is quickly playing his way into the hearts of the coaching staff and management, and I think Kevin Martin will have a home here for quite a few years. So those two guys likely won't be moved.

Who's going to be on the market when we go shopping is very difficult to guess. Still... most teams are going to jump at the chance to land a guy like Peja IF we ever get to that point of seriously considering trading him.

As much as some of us may not like it right now, Petrie is patient, and he might wait an ENTIRE season before pulling the trigger on a deal. Things would probably have to look pretty bad for Sac before I think Petrie would deal Peja.

That said, things aren't looking too peachy right now either. I strongly feel that Sac management wants a championship, and they may provide some pressure to make a trade if things start looking bad. No one is going to consider Sac a championship contending team if they lose to the top teams in the West.

Ok, why am I writing this when all the stuff I talk about is two or more months away from happening? It was on my mind. So, those of you that want to complain that this is too premature, I already beat you to it, so don't.

 

[Superman]

You didn't mention anything about Rick Adelman, sir. I normally jump to his defense, but this is the year that he needs to make something serious happen and show that he deserves to be the coach of this team and can take them forward, no matter what obstacles they face. A sports radio guy said the other day that - much to most Kings fans chagrin - the Kings might be looking at Phil Jackson in nine months. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Phil Jackson looking back at the Kings. Adelman better do his job - and whatever else it takes to make sure this team contends and contends some more - or else he'll be struggling to keep next summer.

And I hate saying it.

 

[VF21]

Supes - If the Kings don't go a long way in the playoffs, and show they REALLY want to win it all, Adelman is most likely toast.

I agree entirely. This is the year that will decide his fate, one way or the other...

And I'm keeping my fingers crossed because if the fates had been just a tad kinder, he'd already have at least one and possibly two titles.

GO KINGS!!!

 

[VF21]

Catalyst - I almost forgot!

Props!

That's a great analysis. It's a shame some of the national writers would prefer to take cheap shots at our team and players. If they wrote like you, I'd read them more...

Just my three cents, of course.

 

[Bricklayer]

You didn't mention anything about Rick Adelman, sir. I normally jump to his defense, but this is the year that he needs to make something serious happen and show that he deserves to be the coach of this team and can take them forward, no matter what obstacles they face. A sports radio guy said the other day that - much to most Kings fans chagrin - the Kings might be looking at Phil Jackson in nine months. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Phil Jackson looking back at the Kings. Adelman better do his job - and whatever else it takes to make sure this team contends and contends some more - or else he'll be struggling to keep next summer.

And I hate saying it.

PJ. Oh good lord. It will simplify my grades somewhat since I can just give that ****head an "F" every time out just on principle.

In any case, I do NOT think is fair to judge Adelman in not being able to win a title with teams that nobody else could win a title with either. Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Gregg Popovich -- NONE of those guys has EVER won a title with star players down with injury, and ALL of them them have had better stars than we have had. Adelman has done ever bit as well as they have proven they could under the cirumstances. Now is he an equal coach? Eh...

In any case, what that means is this: if we are going to try to stay at the top, nobody has shown they deserve that spot more than Rick. My Rick leaves scenario is that we decide its just not going to happen and tear it down after the season If that's the case a younger guy might make more sense (although Jerry Sloan has shown that a proven winner has its uses).

 

[Superman]

I agree with you, Brick, but judging by his current contract status, I'm not so sure the Maloofs and Petrie agree with you. I'm not saying that they disagree, but that they might be undecided on whether or not they want Rick to be here next year. Rick might even be undecided himself.

That having been said, I would like to see Rick get an extension and be the coach for a while. He's good at it. Kind of a bit too laid back and too much of a player's coach at times, but he gets us 50 wins a year and, like you said, hasn't really failed to do anything that a top-tier coach would have done given the circumstances (with the exception of losing to Dallas in 2003; I think we should have won that series, regardless).

But the powers that be might very well see it differently, especially with a so-called "winner" like Phil not tied up somewhere else. I don't want to see his pompous, arrogant butt here anymore than you do, but he has a knack for winning championships. We can talk about his ability to pick "on the verge" teams, but it's irrelevant because we've been on the verge for years now. I could easily see Phil Jackson considering the Kings for his next head coaching job, especially if Rick's job is in jeopardy.

 

[sloter]

Adelman better do his job - and whatever else it takes to make sure this team contends and contends some more - or else he'll be struggling to keep next summer.

And I hate saying it.

Eh, that might happen 3 years too late...

 

[Superman]

Eh, that might happen 3 years too late...

...

 

[Bricklayer]

I agree with you, Brick, but judging by his current contract status, I'm not so sure the Maloofs and Petrie agree with you. I'm not saying that they disagree, but that they might be undecided on whether or not they want Rick to be here next year. Rick might even be undecided himself.

That having been said, I would like to see Rick get an extension and be the coach for a while. He's good at it. Kind of a bit too laid back and too much of a player's coach at times, but he gets us 50 wins a year and, like you said, hasn't really failed to do anything that a top-tier coach would have done given the circumstances (with the exception of losing to Dallas in 2003; I think we should have won that series, regardless).

But the powers that be might very well see it differently, especially with a so-called "winner" like Phil not tied up somewhere else. I don't want to see his pompous, arrogant butt here anymore than you do, but he has a knack for winning championships. We can talk about his ability to pick "on the verge" teams, but it's irrelevant because we've been on the verge for years now. I could easily see Phil Jackson considering the Kings for his next head coaching job, especially if Rick's job is in jeopardy.

We do not have Phil's prerequisite 2 surefire Hall of Famers. Maybe he's gotten mroe arrogant in his dottage and assumes he can do it without them, but he's certainly never proven it. Onyl reason i can fathom he would come here is to stick it to Kobe.

 

[Superman]

Kobe wasn't a surefire Hall of Famers 5 years ago. Granted, we don't even have one, but a championship or two would likely get Mayce in there. And Peja is two steps away from being a dominant player. Bibby is all balls, too.

 

[Bricklayer]

Eh, that might happen 3 years too late...

it always amazes me that people who think Peja is the key to the whole team think that somehow we should have won that series having to effectively play without him. Hell, as I recall there were a lot of pundits predicting we'd get swept going in.

 

[Bricklayer]

Kobe wasn't a surefire Hall of Famers 5 years ago. Granted, we don't even have one, but a championship or two would likely get Mayce in there. And Peja is two steps away from being a dominant player. Bibby is all balls, too.

None of those guys are anywhere close to Shaq/Kobe/Michael or even Pippen. Webb might have had a chance to be 5 years ago. Not at age 32.

 

[Superman]

it always amazes me that people who think Peja is the key to the whole team think that somehow we should have won that series having to effectively play without him. Hell, as I recall there were a lot of pundits predicting we'd get swept going in.

Word.

 

[Superman]

None of those guys are anywhere close to Shaq/Kobe/Michael or even Pippen. Webb might have had a chance to be 5 years ago. Not at age 32.

That's all true, but considering the talent we have on this team (and the way Geoff is able to keep talent coming in), Sacramento has got to be an attractive lure for someone like Phil Jackson.

But regardless, we all saw how happy Joe Dumars was to get rid of Rick Carlisle and replace him with Larry Brown, even though Brown hadn't won anything himself. But it turned out well for Detroit, and Dumars is applauded as a genius for that (he seems to be one, to be fair; can't think of one move he's made that has turned out bad for the Pistons). I just can't imagine the Kings organization standing by and watching their fan base grow more and more restless with each season that end in disappointment, especially if a valid candidate is available and interested.

I think Rick has to do more than be a good coach this season; he needs to impress, and the best way to do that is to win a championship. That's a lot of pressure, especially considering the unsteady roster we have right now, and it sucks like hell for Rick, being the professional he is. But that seems to be the way the cookie is going to crumble for him.

 

[sloter]

it always amazes me that people who think Peja is the key to the whole team think that somehow we should have won that series having to effectively play without him. Hell, as I recall there were a lot of pundits predicting we'd get swept going in.

Pedja was not the key back then. Pedja, however, is the key right now.
For example, so far this season: 2 bad games, 2 losses.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Correlation does not equal causation. You could just as easily make a case for the impact that Christie has had on the team. I've seen both of the games so far, and the Kings have played remarkably better when Christie was on the court; had he played at all in Dallas, we'd be 1-1 at least.

 

[VF21]

Pedja was not the key back then. Pedja, however, is the key right now.
For example, so far this season: 2 bad games, 2 losses.

Pedja performing up to standard is the key. Our team is set up for a certain type of player at small forward. Pedja is currently operating in that position. If he can't perform up to his own standards, then I'm all for putting Barnes in...

 

[sloter]

Well, there are multiple factors for Pedja not operating right:
1) He really hasn't been playing well with Webber being the guy taking most of the shots (we saw plenty of this last year). Interestingly enough, his best game in preseason was against Phoenix when Webber didn't play.
2) There's no more Vlade (those two did have a couple of plays where Pedja would get good looks)
3) Who knows what's in his head ... ?

In any case, if the Kings don't get Pedja going, they're not making the playoffs.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well, there are multiple factors for Pedja not operating right:
1) He really hasn't been playing well with Webber being the guy taking most of the shots (we saw plenty of this last year). Interestingly enough, his best game in preseason was against Phoenix when Webber didn't play...

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to my satisfaction at what point Stojakovic decided that the Kings weren't big enough for him and Webber, because he never had any problem playing with him before...

 

[Heuge]

1) He really hasn't been playing well with Webber being the guy taking most of the shots (we saw plenty of this last year). Interestingly enough, his best game in preseason was against Phoenix when Webber didn't play.

Isn't that the game where we were smashed? I would rather win.
Look two years ago and you will find plenty of games where they both played well.

 

[Kingsgurl]

There comes a time in every man (or woman's) life that they have to stand up on their own two feet and make things happen for themselves. If Peja wants to rise above the level he is at now, perhaps that time has arrived. The team should work on getting Peja open looks, but Peja should work on being able to get off his own shot as well.

 

[VF21]

Well, there are multiple factors for Pedja not operating right:
1) He really hasn't been playing well with Webber being the guy taking most of the shots (we saw plenty of this last year). Interestingly enough, his best game in preseason was against Phoenix when Webber didn't play.
2) There's no more Vlade (those two did have a couple of plays where Pedja would get good looks)
3) Who knows what's in his head ... ?

In any case, if the Kings don't get Pedja going, they're not making the playoffs.

So the fault lies with Webber and Vlade?

At what point does it become PEDJA's fault and his alone for his lackluster performance? Can you name any other player in the league who has been given so much leeway and been able to effectively pass the blame for their abysmal performances to other players???

 

[BigSong]

Correlation does not equal causation. You could just as easily make a case for the impact that Christie has had on the team. I've seen both of the games so far, and the Kings have played remarkably better when Christie was on the court; had he played at all in Dallas, we'd be 1-1 at least.

Don't forget Bibby had a bad game too against Dallas. If anything could be said about these 2 games is that Webber cannot do it alone......of course i guess that seems kinda obvious.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yeah, that did bug me about the game last night; Webber got hot briefly in the second half, and decided to try to beat the Spurs by himself, only to promptly go cold... but he still kept trying to win it by himself. I certainly hope that doesn't become a pattern over the course of the season.

 

[sloter]

Isn't that the game where we were smashed? I would rather win.
Look two years ago and you will find plenty of games where they both played well.

I'm almost sure that the Kings +/- with Pedja in the game was close to even, if not positive.

 

[sloter]

So the fault lies with Webber and Vlade?

At what point does it become PEDJA's fault and his alone for his lackluster performance? Can you name any other player in the league who has been given so much leeway and been able to effectively pass the blame for their abysmal performances to other players???

Well, he's not the one doing it. I am the one saying that, but it does not take a rocket scientist to notice a drop from close to 25 ppg and 50% shooting to whatever he had last year after Webb came and 13 ppg and 25% shooting so far. Now I'm sure Pedja's numbers will improve, but forget about repeating last year.
This is not even a jab at Webber's game - but rather analyzing other players production with/without Webber on the floor.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

::checks the nearest team logo::

Nope, sorry, the team is still called "The Sacramento Kings" and NOT the "The Sacramento Pejas." ( or Webbers, Bibbys for that matter)

Please excuse this team for not catering to Peja's every need. They must not realize that he is obviously the second coming...

 

[quick dog]

I don't know as much, or care as much, about basketball as many of you folks, but I think that the Kings played and passed quite well in the Spurs game during significant periods of time. Game orchestration and passing were what Vlade brought to the Kings. I believe that Webber and Miller will eventually develop an excellent working relationship. I think they will eventually provide much of what Vlade brought to the game. They need to work out the kinks, especially with the new players. Somebody, even Peja Stojakovic, needs to beound the frigging basketball! Rebounding was the real difference the other night. That, and Tiny Tim of course.

as we all remember, Peja and Vlade worked together like clockwork. Certainly that was no surprise given their special relationship and playing history. However, in my opinion, Peja was always the odd-man-out when the games truned into the "Webber and Bibby Show". Brad, Chris, Mike and Doug need to focus on creating more shooting opportunities for Peja. Specifically for Peja. By the same token, Peja needs to work with these guys and ***** loudly if he finds himself wide-open without the ball. Oh yes, somebody needs to rebound the frigging ball!

I think that the team can work it out. They need to patch a marriage gone bad. And, rebound the frigging basketball!

 

[VF21]

Pedja isn't hitting the shots when he does get them. That's not up to Brad, Chris, Mike or Doug to fix. It's up to Pedja. If he doesn't, we're toast.

 

[quick dog]

Pedja isn't hitting the shots when he does get them. That's not up to Brad, Chris, Mike or Doug to fix. It's up to Pedja. If he doesn't, we're toast.

That's true. However, at San Antonio, there were a few times when Peja was standing by himself at the perimeter without the ball. The team has to do something to get Peja's head back into the game because he has lost his mojo, just like Austin Powers. Maybe Brad, Chris, or Greg should knock down a few aggressive Peja-chasers with some highly questionable picks? Show Peja some special love.

How many games did the Kings lose last season trying to get Webber back into form after his physical injuries and layoff? Fifteen? How many games should the Kings risk losing to get Peja's head right? If I were King, I'd risk losing 15 games to get Peja "back on the team."