A Contrary Opinion on Timeouts

[Kingster]

There are two sides to the coin as they say. I've read a lot of comments that Muss should call quicker time-outs. So is there any downside to calling quicker time-outs as a general rule? I can tell you that the greatest basketball coach of all time was *very* stingy with his time outs. And it wasn't just because his teams were great and there weren't tense moments when *many* would have called a time out. It was because he believed that he had prepared his team sufficiently for those tense occassions and they had to play through those tense moments, even though they might blow it. To get good, a team ultimately has to figure it out on the court. And rather than have a team look to coachie for that timeout when the palms get sweaty, it just might be beneficial for them to play through it and not look for help from coach.

 

[creAtivetfh]

There are two sides to the coin as they say. I've read a lot of comments that Muss should call quicker time-outs. So is there any downside to calling quicker time-outs as a general rule? I can tell you that the greatest basketball coach of all time was *very* stingy with his time outs. And it wasn't just because his teams were great and there weren't tense moments when *many* would have called a time out. It was because he believed that he had prepared his team sufficiently for those tense occassions and they had to play through those tense moments, even though they might blow it. To get good, a team ultimately has to figure it out on the court. And rather than have a team look to coachie for that timeout when the palms get sweaty, it just might be beneficial for them to play through it and not look for help from coach.

Kobe Bryant and Shaq. end of thread.

 

[Spike]

As a rule of thumb, I tend to call a timeout after three uncontested baskets by the opposing team. Players do tend to lose composure. Reminding them of defensive responsibilities and setting up a quick hitter for points is what coaching is about. Figuring it out on the court is one thing, knowing when players need time to collect themselves is another.

 

[VF21]

As a rule of thumb, I tend to call a timeout after three uncontested baskets by the opposing team. Players do tend to lose composure. Reminding them of defensive responsibilities and setting up a quick hitter for points is what coaching is about. Figuring it out on the court is one thing, knowing when players need time to collect themselves is another.

Excellent points, IMHO.

The Kings are a fragile team this season as far as composure goes. It's obvious by the way they simplyb cannot seem to finish out games...

As a coach, when Musselman saw the lead starting to slip away, he better than anyone else should have been aware that it could get ugly. Calling a time out - even just a 20 - could have made the difference. Kind of a "Okay, guys...take a deep breath. We've got this game. Just don't forget what got you in the lead. Don't be heroes; keep moving the ball; and keep your wits about you."

He didn't do that. Musselman stood there on the sidelines like a deer in the headlights until the momentum had completely shifted, the crowd was totally involved and the Kings team was unraveled.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Phil is at best the 2nd best all time and I never liked the way he called time outs. I missed last night's game so I won't pick on Muss right now but time outs should be called if one team gains a clear momentum advantage and your team needs a few seconds, a quick breather and a pep talk to clear its head. Spike's rule seems like a good starting point. Basketball is a game of runs and anything you can do to end the opponent's run and kickstart your own is a good idea.

 

[kennadog]

Timeouts tend to cool the crowd down too. That or a spectacular play by the opposing team.

 

[Kingster]

Phil is at best the 2nd best all time and I never liked the way he called time outs. I missed last night's game so I won't pick on Muss right now but time outs should be called if one team gains a clear momentum advantage and your team needs a few seconds, a quick breather and a pep talk to clear its head. Spike's rule seems like a good starting point. Basketball is a game of runs and anything you can do to end the opponent's run and kickstart your own is a good idea.

Who's Phil?

 

[SacKings384]

I think it's important to call a timeout not only to cool the guys and the crowd down but to set up a play to get an easy bucket. The sign of a good coach is that they consistently get a bucket after a timeout...

 

[supamari0]

There's a difference between stinginess and stupidity. There's no reason to have 2 or 3 timeouts at the end of a tight game that goes down to the wire and involves a crazy comeback by your opponents. That's just flat out stupidity and even PJ wouldn't do that.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Who's Phil?

I, like quite a few others, assumed you were referring to Phil Jackson as the greatest coach ever given that he is notorious for letting the opponents go on 10-20 point runs and having his team play through them.

 

[Padrino]

There are two sides to the coin as they say. I've read a lot of comments that Muss should call quicker time-outs. So is there any downside to calling quicker time-outs as a general rule? I can tell you that the greatest basketball coach of all time was *very* stingy with his time outs. And it wasn't just because his teams were great and there weren't tense moments when *many* would have called a time out. It was because he believed that he had prepared his team sufficiently for those tense occassions and they had to play through those tense moments, even though they might blow it. To get good, a team ultimately has to figure it out on the court. And rather than have a team look to coachie for that timeout when the palms get sweaty, it just might be beneficial for them to play through it and not look for help from coach.

this was rick adelman's philosophy, too. and its one that i don't mind...IF the coach has prepared the team ADEQUATELY. the best coaches out there have the experience, the track record, and the gameplan to back it up. eric musselman doesn't have any of the above. his gameplan has been unclear the entire season, and for a young coach lacking the full respect of his players, he needs to call those potentially-momentum-shifting timeouts. he hasn't shown the composure himself on the sideline to prove his team is prepared for decisive moments in fourth quarters. the best coaches will take the opponent's run on the chin, throw up a play sign, and expect their players to execute. some of the best coaches also call those timeouts immediately when they see their team falling apart. this takes a floor general, though...a real hardass...gregg popovich comes to mind. his players listen to him without prejudice, cuz the guy's a winner. so, when he calls a timeout, he instructs his players, and they listen. simple. muss needs to get his head out of his hands at the end of games before he can command the kind of respect that a coach like popovich gets. the winning sure wouldn't hurt, either...

 

[Kingster]

I, like quite a few others, assumed you were referring to Phil Jackson as the greatest coach ever given that he is notorious for letting the opponents go on 10-20 point runs and having his team play through them.

No. John Wooden. Phil Jackson couldn't carry his notepad.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

No. John Wooden. Phil Jackson couldn't carry his notepad.

Fair enough, and agreed, but two quibbles with citing him as an example: the pro and college games are different and timeouts need to be used more judiciously in college and Wooden hasn't coached in 30 years and the sport has evolved a great deal since then. Also, for both of those reasons the way coaches and players interact are completely different which would lead to different time out strategies.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Excellent points, IMHO.

The Kings are a fragile team this season as far as composure goes. It's obvious by the way they simplyb cannot seem to finish out games...

As a coach, when Musselman saw the lead starting to slip away, he better than anyone else should have been aware that it could get ugly. Calling a time out - even just a 20 - could have made the difference. Kind of a "Okay, guys...take a deep breath. We've got this game. Just don't forget what got you in the lead. Don't be heroes; keep moving the ball; and keep your wits about you."

He didn't do that. Musselman stood there on the sidelines like a deer in the headlights until the momentum had completely shifted, the crowd was totally involved and the Kings team was unraveled.

Totally agree, VF!! I think that it really is tactical and a psychological as far as how and when to utilize timeouts during certain key times during games. The one thing that doesnt need to be taught, as far as this goes, is the 'Bill Russell School for Using Timeouts'...his theory was that 'timeouts were just for TV.' So he never called them, no matter how far tired, behind, or ahead a team was.

 

[Kingster]

Fair enough, and agreed, but two quibbles with citing him as an example: the pro and college games are different and timeouts need to be used more judiciously in college and Wooden hasn't coached in 30 years and the sport has evolved a great deal since then. Also, for both of those reasons the way coaches and players interact are completely different which would lead to different time out strategies.

Couldn't disagree more. Basketball is basketball. Making decision on the court - "poise under pressure" as Wooden used to say. If anything, a much stronger argument could be made on having quicker timeouts in college than the pros because the college players have less experience. The emphasis on timeouts is more fad than substance, it's a crippler of a player's development and a team's development. It's a good way though for a coach to look like he's coach-like, when in fact he's retarding the growth of his players on the court. Sure, you need to call timeouts now and then, but the number that is typically called is ridiculous. What it is is a sacrifice of the longer term for the short term. If you don't give player's the opportunity to work through adversity on the court you are doing them no favors (I know, the current team is the beneficiary of many favors ) Wooden knew this, and Wooden was -- THE MASTER. That's the end of my sermon for the day.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Couldn't disagree more. Basketball is basketball.

I'm not arguing the greatness of Wooden but pro basketball and college basketball are not the same. Modern basketball and old school basketball are not the same. Its why coaches can't transition easily between pro and college and why some of the legendary coaches who have tried coaching the modern era have fallen on their faces and had their reputations tarnished. The college game is played at a deliberately slower pace. The NBA has rules specifically in place to create a higher tempo game (quicker shot clock, 8 seconds vs. 10 in the back court) and sometimes a time out is the only way to slow things down. The NCAA did not even introduce the shot clock until 10 years after Wooden had retired.

 

[Kingster]

I'm not arguing the greatness of Wooden but pro basketball and college basketball are not the same. Modern basketball and old school basketball are not the same. Its why coaches can't transition easily between pro and college and why some of the legendary coaches who have tried coaching the modern era have fallen on their faces and had their reputations tarnished. The college game is played at a deliberately slower pace. The NBA has rules specifically in place to create a higher tempo game (quicker shot clock, 8 seconds vs. 10 in the back court) and sometimes a time out is the only way to slow things down. The NCAA did not even introduce the shot clock until 10 years after Wooden had retired.

I agree with everything you say except for it's applicability to the subject of time-outs. No facts that you assert above lead me to the conclusion that time-outs must be taken more than Wooden did. Yes, there are definitely some characteristics of pro ball different than college, but setting a screen, making a jump shot, knowing how to pass and dribble and cut, rebound and making on-court decisions are the same. And a 24-second shot clock shouldn't dictate that the number of time-outs goes way up. That's my sermon for this day.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yes, there are definitely some characteristics of pro ball different than college, but setting a screen, making a jump shot, knowing how to pass and dribble and cut, rebound and making on-court decisions are the same. And a 24-second shot clock shouldn't dictate that the number of time-outs goes way up. That's my sermon for this day.

Your assertion seems to be that timeouts are to be used to draw up a set play or to give the players a refresher on how to play. It doesn't address the issue of slowing the game down, taking the crowd out of the game momentarily and cooling off a "hot hand" (let's save whether the debate on whether or not a such thing exists for another day). In the NBA game there is no other way to slow the game down without taking a timeout - the only other option is to run the shot clock down a bit which may wind up causing more harm than good. That's why I brought up the shot clock, even in the modern NCAA teams can run 25+ seconds off the clock and then still run a set offense.

 

[Spike]

If you don't give player's the opportunity to work through adversity on the court you are doing them no favors.

If I know a bear is in the cave, do I let someone walk in so that they learn the hard way? I'm no Wooden, and neither is Muss. Both of us don't recruit our players. Coaching is about putting your players in a position to succeed, both in practice and during the games.



BTW, Wooden could have used a time out in 1974.

 

[Kingster]

this was rick adelman's philosophy, too. and its one that i don't mind...IF the coach has prepared the team ADEQUATELY. the best coaches out there have the experience, the track record, and the gameplan to back it up. eric musselman doesn't have any of the above. his gameplan has been unclear the entire season, and for a young coach lacking the full respect of his players, he needs to call those potentially-momentum-shifting timeouts. he hasn't shown the composure himself on the sideline to prove his team is prepared for decisive moments in fourth quarters. the best coaches will take the opponent's run on the chin, throw up a play sign, and expect their players to execute. some of the best coaches also call those timeouts immediately when they see their team falling apart. this takes a floor general, though...a real hardass...gregg popovich comes to mind. his players listen to him without prejudice, cuz the guy's a winner. so, when he calls a timeout, he instructs his players, and they listen. simple. muss needs to get his head out of his hands at the end of games before he can command the kind of respect that a coach like popovich gets. the winning sure wouldn't hurt, either...

I agree. the coach has to prepare his team properly in practice before games if he is stingy with TOs. Wooden certainly did. I get the feeling with Muss that he is desperately trying to create an ad hoc offense for different situations and different teams. There doesn't seem to be a system that he sticks too. I'd rather have an imperfect consistent system than ad hoc creativity.

 

[Kingster]

Your assertion seems to be that timeouts are to be used to draw up a set play or to give the players a refresher on how to play. It doesn't address the issue of slowing the game down, taking the crowd out of the game momentarily and cooling off a "hot hand" (let's save whether the debate on whether or not a such thing exists for another day). In the NBA game there is no other way to slow the game down without taking a timeout - the only other option is to run the shot clock down a bit which may wind up causing more harm than good. That's why I brought up the shot clock, even in the modern NCAA teams can run 25+ seconds off the clock and then still run a set offense.

My assertion is all of the above. It is that a 24 second clock gives you as much chance to get back into the game by the player's own initiative as to get you out. Ultimately, it's not the timeout that changes momentum - it's the play on the court. If simply taking a timeout could change momentum, it would be so easy, but it's obvious that it doesn't. It's a mirage, a pacifier, and it disempowers players by its overuse. I especially dislike it at the end of close games, say the last 2-3 minutes, when the micromanagers seemingly take timeouts on every possession. They have to set up a play. What they don't get is that the other coach is setting up their defense. What they ignore is that the transition from defense to offense is their greatest opportunity to score in those situations and that what they should do is get the ball from the official as soon as possible and get up the floor and run their prepared offense. Given that the league is run by the micromanagers, this strategy is even more powerful because the opposing players are conditioned and unprepared to face it. I say the reason coaches micromanage is that they don't trust their own players to run their own offense. But if the coach doesn't trust his players and his preparation, why should the players? I say, give 'em the reins and let 'em run!

 

[Jerryaki]

I especially dislike it at the end of close games, say the last 2-3 minutes, when the micromanagers seemingly take timeouts on every possession. They have to set up a play. What they don't get is that the other coach is setting up their defense. What they ignore is that the transition from defense to offense is their greatest opportunity to score in those situations and that what they should do is get the ball from the official as soon as possible and get up the floor and run their prepared offense.

but even phoenix will call timeouts in these situations to set up a play, and they are tops right now at that 7 second offense of theirs. after a made basket, the other team is already back on defense, so you might as well try to set something up to out-think that defense.

now, if the basket were missed and you rebound, then maybe let them play and try to take advantage of a lack of transition defense.