22 games in, your Kings are AVERAGE defensively!

#4
A lot of us here have been saying if we can just be average defensively we can be really good, because of our potent offense. The great thing is we are trending up.
Agree on the trending up. It seems like a lot of the guys are figuring out their roles on defense and where they should be positioned.
 
#5
That also passes the eye test. I am not seeing opponents punishing us with a free pass for lay ups as often. We have a good coach and the more the players buy in playing defense it opens up a multitude of good situations.
 
#7
I wonder how much real world difference there is between a team giving up 111 vs say 113 per 100 possessions. Teams last year averaged 99 possessions on the low end with 104.7 being the highest.
 
#8
I wonder how much real world difference there is between a team giving up 111 vs say 113 per 100 possessions. Teams last year averaged 99 possessions on the low end with 104.7 being the highest.
Sounds like it's about 2 pts. Not a lot at all. But that's true of so many stats. We think of a 35% 3-pt shooter as average and a 40% shooter as very good. But, assuming that each takes five 3's/game the difference between the two is ONE extra made three every four games (7-fer-20 vs. 8-fer-20 over 4 games).

Of course, in both cases - defensive ratings and 3-pt shooting - those are just averages. How often do those 2-pt and 5-point differences make the difference between winning and losing? Dunno.
 
#9
Sounds like it's about 2 pts. Not a lot at all. But that's true of so many stats. We think of a 35% 3-pt shooter as average and a 40% shooter as very good. But, assuming that each takes five 3's/game the difference between the two is ONE extra made three every four games (7-fer-20 vs. 8-fer-20 over 4 games).

Of course, in both cases - defensive ratings and 3-pt shooting - those are just averages. How often do those 2-pt and 5-point differences make the difference between winning and losing? Dunno.
Yeh and then factoring those games where you give up 120 and still win.

it almost seems like a 1-3 rating would be appropriate.

1-elite 2-average 3- bad
 
#11
I feel like we could be 10-15 defensively. And that's if we don't add a piece for someone who is a garbage time or DNP-CD all star who used to start.

At the start of the season not only were we figuring things out but there were statistical anomalies at play. I think we've only gotten better as a team while we've also seen some of the anomalies regress. Teams have missed open looks in the last week.
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#12
I feel like we could be 10-15 defensively. And that's if we don't add a piece for someone who is a garbage time or DNP-CD all star who used to start.

At the start of the season not only were we figuring things out but there were statistical anomalies at play. I think we've only gotten better as a team while we've also seen some of the anomalies regress. Teams have missed open looks in the last week.
Well we were somehow 6th the past 7 games or so which seems to be extremely promising
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#16
Dallas makes no sense to me whatsoever. Eighth? Really? Luka & Co as stoppers? Makes me wonder how accurate that defensive stat is. If they can manage to make the 8th slot I don't see why the Kings can't tie them for 8th.
 
#20
Man. I can't believe i thought the Wolves would be so much better than us lol
lol no way! Sir Charles Barkley said it best himself after Minnesota was eliminated from last season's playoffs: "They're a dumb team". I don't think they're ran very well, either. If you're trading away 17 future first round picks for anyone, you had better damn well have a better team on your hands than before the trade.

In the offseason I was really confident we would be good, I just couldn't have imagined it would happen this quickly. The fact that we are #16 in defensive rating 22 games into the season is stunning!
 
#22


Hmm, I wonder why our defense has really picked up?

It is strange that probably the 2 best defenders on the team come off the bench, but hey. If it works, it works
Okpala is still only 23. Right now he's in the Andre Roberson mold where his great defense is a trade off with being ineffective offensively. But if he can just be decent as an outside shooter and finisher he could eventually be a good option to start. Maybe as early as next year if Barnes leaves in free agency.
 
#24


Hmm, I wonder why our defense has really picked up?

It is strange that probably the 2 best defenders on the team come off the bench, but hey. If it works, it works
Coach has done a nice job of late reconfiguring his defense and figuring out how to distribute minutes so that the Kings' better defenders are getting adequate run. It also helps that he appears to have 110% buy-in from his entire team right now on both sides of the ball. The Kings are 4th in the league in OFFRTG and are averaging just a hair under 120 points per game while their leading scorers are Fox at 23.1 ppg, Sabonis at 16.7 ppg, Huerter at 15.5 ppg, and Monk at 14.7 ppg. That's f***ing nuts. Nobody's getting massive bites at the apple on the regular, but everybody's eating on this team (and most are doing so quite efficiently), which says to me that these Kings are playing for each other and not for themselves.

While I attribute much to Domas' leadership and other intangibles on and off the court, it is absolutely clear that Mike Brown has put in a ton of work to establish a sustainable team-wide culture of unselfishness that has made the Kings a passably competent defensive team for the first time in fifteen years, as well as one of the most exciting and efficient offenses in the NBA. As an interesting point of contrast, the Celtics are at the top of the league in OFFRTG and averaging just over 120 ppg while their leading scorers are Jayson Tatum at 30.7 ppg and Jaylen Brown at 27 ppg. Boston's offense is exceptional without a doubt, but they're also really dependent upon the individual scoring excellence of their two best players.

That said, the Kings may not have a lot of individual performers who can regularly blow up NBA Twitter with massive 40- or 50-point scoring nights, but it also doesn't seem like they need anybody to do that kind of heavy-lifting on offense, which bodes well for this season's continued success on that side of the ball. If they continue to improve on the other end, I think a top-6 finish is pretty likely.
 
#25
Coach has done a nice job of late reconfiguring his defense and figuring out how to distribute minutes so that the Kings' better defenders are getting adequate run. It also helps that he appears to have 110% buy-in from his entire team right now on both sides of the ball. The Kings are 4th in the league in OFFRTG and are averaging just a hair under 120 points per game while their leading scorers are Fox at 23.1 ppg, Sabonis at 16.7 ppg, Huerter at 15.5 ppg, and Monk at 14.7 ppg. That's f***ing nuts. Nobody's getting massive bites at the apple on the regular, but everybody's eating on this team (and most are doing so quite efficiently), which says to me that these Kings are playing for each other and not for themselves.

While I attribute much to Domas' leadership and other intangibles on and off the court, it is absolutely clear that Mike Brown has put in a ton of work to establish a sustainable team-wide culture of unselfishness that has made the Kings a passably competent defensive team for the first time in fifteen years, as well as one of the most exciting and efficient offenses in the NBA. As an interesting point of contrast, the Celtics are at the top of the league in OFFRTG and averaging just over 120 ppg while their leading scorers are Jayson Tatum at 30.7 ppg and Jaylen Brown at 27 ppg. Boston's offense is exceptional without a doubt, but they're also really dependent upon the individual scoring excellence of their two best players.

That said, the Kings may not have a lot of individual performers who can regularly blow up NBA Twitter with massive 40- or 50-point scoring nights, but it also doesn't seem like they need anybody to do that kind of heavy-lifting on offense, which bodes well for this season's continued success on that side of the ball. If they continue to improve on the other end, I think a top-6 finish is pretty likely.
Funnily enough, the last time the Kings were good, they have a very similar offensive distribution throughout the squad. Webb was the focus of that team, but that team was also very much predicated on getting the best shot possible and feeding whoever was hot in that game. That 01-02 team had:

Cwebb- 24 PPG
Peja- 21 PPG
Bibby-13.7 PPG
Christie- 12.- PPG
Vlade- 11.1 PPG
Bobby J-- 11.1 PPG
Hedo-- 10.1 PPG

Headed by Sabonis, but I also think Brown coming from the ball movement system in GSW has really reborn the golden era Kings with this squad. Fox and Sabonis don't care if they're atop the scoring chart every night; if TD, Monk, or even Trey Lyles have it going, the ball. So much fun to watch
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#26


Hmm, I wonder why our defense has really picked up?

It is strange that probably the 2 best defenders on the team come off the bench, but hey. If it works, it works
KZ Okpala has shown to be able to guard multiple postions which means he can come in for any lineup, Davion is a little different but I'd say he's a top 5 defender in the NBA as his position already. He single handedly changes the pace of games
 
#27
Okpala is still only 23. Right now he's in the Andre Roberson mold where his great defense is a trade off with being ineffective offensively. But if he can just be decent as an outside shooter and finisher he could eventually be a good option to start. Maybe as early as next year if Barnes leaves in free agency.
I'll say that his shooting stroke and form looks much better than someone like Roberson. He looks like an 80% shooter from the line. Just needs to keep making the right play and taking open shots within the offense and be given enough time to gain some confidence, which has been happening since he's played again
 
#28
I also think Brown coming from the ball movement system in GSW has really reborn the golden era Kings with this squad. Fox and Sabonis don't care if they're atop the scoring chart every night; if TD, Monk, or even Trey Lyles have it going, the ball. So much fun to watch
It remains such an amusing and electrifying surprise that Mike Brown of all head coaches has built one of the most high-octane offensive attacks in the entire league. Obviously, his time in Oakland has influenced his understanding of modern NBA offense, but man, I don't even think the Warriors at the peak of their powers moved with quite as much burst and urgency as these Kings do both on and off the ball.

After years of watching the Kings watch their best player(s) pound the ball into the parquet in perpetuity, it's unreal to see the speed and ferocity in each off-ball cut within coach Brown's offense. He's got them playing like they'll never touch the ball again if they don't curl around screens as hard as they possibly can. It's not just the pace at which the Kings play; it's the sheer frenzy and intensity of the different actions they're running in a given possession.

While they're learning to play passable defense, it seems to me that they're grinding opponents down with their offense. Chasing this particular Kings team around the court will exhaust even the most sturdy and disciplined defenses in the NBA.
 
#29
It remains such an amusing and electrifying surprise that Mike Brown of all head coaches has built one of the most high-octane offensive attacks in the entire league. Obviously, his time in Oakland has influenced his understanding of modern NBA offense, but man, I don't even think the Warriors at the peak of their powers moved with quite as much burst and urgency as these Kings do both on and off the ball.

After years of watching the Kings watch their best player(s) pound the ball into the parquet in perpetuity, it's unreal to see the speed and ferocity in each off-ball cut within coach Brown's offense. He's got them playing like they'll never touch the ball again if they don't curl around screens as hard as they possibly can. It's not just the pace at which the Kings play; it's the sheer frenzy and intensity of the different actions they're running in a given possession.

While they're learning to play passable defense, it seems to me that they're grinding opponents down with their offense. Chasing this particular Kings team around the court will exhaust even the most sturdy and disciplined defenses in the NBA.

My guess is Brown AND Sabonis are leading this charge. I remember a play where our guys were just standing around and Sabonis just looked pissed that no one was moving or cutting. He was barking at them the whole time.

And Brown absolutely is keeping these guys accountable. Don't want to run hard? Someone else will. Not playing up to standard? Someone else will. TD and Keegan are the best examples of this so far this year. Keegan's minute range has basically been like 22-37 depending on his play. TD will either get 1 5 minute rotation or well into the 20's. He rewards good play and finds someone else if you aren't up to snuff that night.

That's why we haven't really been blown out or just had a laugher vs us the whole year.
 
#30
Okpala is still only 23. Right now he's in the Andre Roberson mold where his great defense is a trade off with being ineffective offensively. But if he can just be decent as an outside shooter and finisher he could eventually be a good option to start. Maybe as early as next year if Barnes leaves in free agency.
Ah, Roberson is a great comparison. Big wing defender, switchable 1-4 (I think Okpala may actually be 1-5) and basically a nothing on offense. But the rest of the team around him was so good on offense that his lack of offense, but ++ defense still made him a valuable rotation guy for those early OKC teams.

And the thing is you don't have to close with him. That's mostly when the lack of offense hurts you. The other 42 minutes though, I think you can absolutely find space for what he brings on D and put enough offense on the floor to make sure he stays impactful.