[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

Sean Cunningham tripling down on his belief the Kings are going to make another move. I just don’t buy it. Who do you think the Kings could trade for with our tradable assets: Barnes (expiring) Off night (poor overall offensive numbers but with plenty of potential) and Holmes (coming off a bad year, reasonable contract)? We have no first round picks unless we change the protections on the 2024
 
Sean Cunningham tripling down on his belief the Kings are going to make another move. I just don’t buy it. Who do you think the Kings could trade for with our tradable assets: Barnes (expiring) Off night (poor overall offensive numbers but with plenty of potential) and Holmes (coming off a bad year, reasonable contract)? We have no first round picks unless we change the protections on the 2024
Only thing that makes sense is a starting 3. Maybe one of the Spurs wings (Vassell or Johnson) for Barnes. Filler on either side. They get to to into full tank mode while opening up money next year. Trade Barnes mid year to a contender for a FRP.

Or the Pelicans for Trey Murphy. Herb Jones outplayed him last year and looks to be the better longer term prospect. Dyson Daniels likely eats into his wing minutes as well.
 

Capt. Factorial

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Sean Cunningham tripling down on his belief the Kings are going to make another move. I just don’t buy it. Who do you think the Kings could trade for with our tradable assets: Barnes (expiring) Off night (poor overall offensive numbers but with plenty of potential) and Holmes (coming off a bad year, reasonable contract)? We have no first round picks unless we change the protections on the 2024
I guess it depends on what "another move" means. If it means getting a 3rd string PG on a vet minimum or using the BAE to sign somebody, that's really not surprising, and we have a roster spot available. If it means a trade, yeah, I agree our assets that we'd be willing to part with are pretty skimpy.

Only thing that makes sense is a starting 3. Maybe one of the Spurs wings (Vassell or Johnson) for Barnes. Filler on either side. They get to to into full tank mode while opening up money next year. Trade Barnes mid year to a contender for a FRP.
I suppose that's possible. Are we really giving up on Barnes at the 3, though? Has the NBA gone so small that he can't stick there? Look at his numbers with us over the past two years and tell me that's a guy you want to get rid of. I understand that he's expiring and we risk losing him, but then again, maybe he wants to stick around and be a part of what we're building.

I get that the Spurs would probably love to get him and then deal him at the deadline for a pick, but, man, why don't we keep him and try to actually get out of our rut?
 
I guess it depends on what "another move" means. If it means getting a 3rd string PG on a vet minimum or using the BAE to sign somebody, that's really not surprising, and we have a roster spot available. If it means a trade, yeah, I agree our assets that we'd be willing to part with are pretty skimpy.



I suppose that's possible. Are we really giving up on Barnes at the 3, though? Has the NBA gone so small that he can't stick there? Look at his numbers with us over the past two years and tell me that's a guy you want to get rid of. I understand that he's expiring and we risk losing him, but then again, maybe he wants to stick around and be a part of what we're building.

I get that the Spurs would probably love to get him and then deal him at the deadline for a pick, but, man, why don't we keep him and try to actually get out of our rut?
Yea, the assumption is the Kings know they're losing Barnes, so they turn him into a younger, longer term piece. So may not be an outright improvement, but exchanging a shorter term asset for a longer term one. And from what DLO, KC, and Ham have been saying, it looks like Barnes is gone after this year--Barnes choosing to leave rather than the Kings pushing him out.
 
Only thing that makes sense is a starting 3. Maybe one of the Spurs wings (Vassell or Johnson) for Barnes. Filler on either side. They get to to into full tank mode while opening up money next year. Trade Barnes mid year to a contender for a FRP.

Or the Pelicans for Trey Murphy. Herb Jones outplayed him last year and looks to be the better longer term prospect. Dyson Daniels likely eats into his wing minutes as well.
The Spurs just waaay overpaid on an extension for Johnson. Monte needs to settle in, see what he's got and see what the NBA landscape is looking like at the deadline. That expiring might be pretty valuable at that point. Especially if the contenders need a plug in and play guy like Barnes to push them over the top.
 
Sean Cunningham tripling down on his belief the Kings are going to make another move. I just don’t buy it. Who do you think the Kings could trade for with our tradable assets: Barnes (expiring) Off night (poor overall offensive numbers but with plenty of potential) and Holmes (coming off a bad year, reasonable contract)? We have no first round picks unless we change the protections on the 2024
We desperately need a true 3 but I see this getting resolved mid-season. I feel like we've overhauled the roster a lot and when you are talking about adding a starting caliber talent and moving Holmes or Barnes or potentially both to acquire that, you need to see what you have first.

sidenote: I find Sean very annoying. Could be the company he keeps.
 
Yea, the assumption is the Kings know they're losing Barnes, so they turn him into a younger, longer term piece. So may not be an outright improvement, but exchanging a shorter term asset for a longer term one. And from what DLO, KC, and Ham have been saying, it looks like Barnes is gone after this year--Barnes choosing to leave rather than the Kings pushing him out.
If this team experiences a renaissance under Brown and Barnes is a part of it, is he so quick to leave? I still feel like the best move for him if he's out the door is near the deadline to a team that needs him while we can hopefully get a roleplayer and perhaps a pick. It's very hard to imagine getting a better player back right now.
 
If this team experiences a renaissance under Brown and Barnes is a part of it, is he so quick to leave? I still feel like the best move for him if he's out the door is near the deadline to a team that needs him while we can hopefully get a roleplayer and perhaps a pick. It's very hard to imagine getting a better player back right now.
It’s also worth nothing that by most accounts, Barnes is considered the leader of the locker room. Grant had said before the end of his run that Barnes was clearly the team leader. That probably comes into play, especially when integrating a new coaching staff. It’s probably why they haven’t jumped on all the chances to move him for pretty good hauls in the past.
 
It’s also worth nothing that by most accounts, Barnes is considered the leader of the locker room. Grant had said before the end of his run that Barnes was clearly the team leader. That probably comes into play, especially when integrating a new coaching staff. It’s probably why they haven’t jumped on all the chances to move him for pretty good hauls in the past.
It seemed like when Sabonis arrived he took on a floor leader quality, but he was sidelined pretty quickly. Will be interesting to see what the dynamic is under Brown.
 
If this team experiences a renaissance under Brown and Barnes is a part of it, is he so quick to leave? I still feel like the best move for him if he's out the door is near the deadline to a team that needs him while we can hopefully get a roleplayer and perhaps a pick. It's very hard to imagine getting a better player back right now.
Hard to say. The risk is either that he leaves OR that the Kings are forced to overpay to keep him to avoid losing an asset for nothing. Neither of those are great options for a team that will have to pay a lot more to re-sign Sabonis the next season.

I think Barnes and Murray would be fine as the starting forwards for the upcoming season. The question is what the long term thinking is with Barnes.
 
Hard to say. The risk is either that he leaves OR that the Kings are forced to overpay to keep him to avoid losing an asset for nothing. Neither of those are great options for a team that will have to pay a lot more to re-sign Sabonis the next season.

I think Barnes and Murray would be fine as the starting forwards for the upcoming season. The question is what the long term thinking is with Barnes.
I definitely don't want to overpay, I don't know if he wants to sign a team friendly deal. That's Monte's job if he can make it happen. Can we extend him before the deadline? I definitely don't have a problem moving him for the right return. I think that is more likely to happen later than in the pre-season but I guess if a KD deal happens there might be opportunity to glom on as a third wheel.
 
The Spurs just waaay overpaid on an extension for Johnson. Monte needs to settle in, see what he's got and see what the NBA landscape is looking like at the deadline. That expiring might be pretty valuable at that point. Especially if the contenders need a plug in and play guy like Barnes to push them over the top.
I don’t know about way over paid. He basically just got handed Barnes’ contract from 3 years ago and he’s already just as productive as Barnes has ever been in his career, except Johnson is only 22 and likely will improve yet. If we could get a Barnes for Johnson swap without adding too much more I’d do it in a heart beat. I think Johnson’s defense can be improved a lot with sticking at a position for a while and his energy is infectious.
 
I definitely don't want to overpay, I don't know if he wants to sign a team friendly deal. That's Monte's job if he can make it happen. Can we extend him before the deadline? I definitely don't have a problem moving him for the right return. I think that is more likely to happen later than in the pre-season but I guess if a KD deal happens there might be opportunity to glom on as a third wheel.
Figuring out the right move with Barnes will likely be an important part of Monte's job this next season.

I think there's a really strong chance that Murray provides the same level of production as HB as early as his sophomore year in the NBA. Having two guys that are mainly 4/3's and shoot well from outside and give effort on D while struggling to contain quicker wings isn't the worst thing in the world, but I don't think it's necessarily ideal either. Especially if Barnes is getting fringe all-star type money in his age 30-34 seasons.
 
I don’t know about way over paid. He basically just got handed Barnes’ contract from 3 years ago and he’s already just as productive as Barnes has ever been in his career, except Johnson is only 22 and likely will improve yet. If we could get a Barnes for Johnson swap without adding too much more I’d do it in a heart beat. I think Johnson’s defense can be improved a lot with sticking at a position for a while and his energy is infectious.
Based on history I think it is. Or at least possibly a little premature even though it could be a steal of deal in time, who knows. I like him as a player but Barnes was a far more proven commodity when the Kings signed him to this current deal. Also, it's kind of been proven that the Mavs overpaid Barnes at the time when they signed him. I also kind of don't like it for the Spurs because these are treadmill type moves when they just moved their one star piece. It's possible Johnson gets more burn as a go to type and maybe that will boost his value, but it could also put him kind of in a Barnes situation where it's clear he just isn't that guy. As for a Barnes/Johnson swap, to me, that's too much risk at this point. Imagine if this team does need to be torn down because things didn't go well? You're just adding onto the misery at that point. Too good to be bad, too bad to be good with few avenues to fully move into a rebuild. The franchise has been exactly there for the majority of this last 16 years. I don't think the Kings can even trade for him at this point anyway since he signed an extension right? At the deadline, maybe you look this way once you know where you stand. As it is, it's a lateral move IMO with more guarantees when this teams situation is still not a guarantee.
 
Figuring out the right move with Barnes will likely be an important part of Monte's job this next season.

I think there's a really strong chance that Murray provides the same level of production as HB as early as his sophomore year in the NBA. Having two guys that are mainly 4/3's and shoot well from outside and give effort on D while struggling to contain quicker wings isn't the worst thing in the world, but I don't think it's necessarily ideal either. Especially if Barnes is getting fringe all-star type money in his age 30-34 seasons.
absolutely. Either the Kings start of lightning in a bottle and Barnes and Murray are on fire, or you start figuring out how to show off Barnes to ship him. I guess the real issue is what happens if this team starts off 12-8 or better and you're looking at a 50 win pace with those two. What then?
 
Hard to say. The risk is either that he leaves OR that the Kings are forced to overpay to keep him to avoid losing an asset for nothing. Neither of those are great options for a team that will have to pay a lot more to re-sign Sabonis the next season.

I think Barnes and Murray would be fine as the starting forwards for the upcoming season. The question is what the long term thinking is with Barnes.
Yeah, that's the gamble for sure but there's time and there will be interest in Barnes up to the deadline if he stays healthy. Since Monte didn't move Barnes yet, especially for someone like Collins who has a huge deal, there's also still some potential flexibility left next summer. It may prove out that the Kings are better off with a role playing low shot attempt type at SF. Getting legit talent at SF isn't easy but you can find players like that even with 2nd rounders. The Kings are already looking at a few with these recent signings of Moneke and Okpala although Okpala is another more 4 than 3 type himself.
 
The Kings are already looking at a few with these recent signings of Moneke and Okpala although Okpala is another more 4 than 3 type himself.
I keep wondering to myself (and will include Ellis as well) which guy is a 3 here, obviously nothing we have so far is ideal but we should find ways to make it work, at least we aren't trying to play "positionless basketball" with our PG and Cs anymore, since 2-4 in the modern NBA are the most flexible.
 
I keep wondering to myself (and will include Ellis as well) which guy is a 3 here, obviously nothing we have so far is ideal but we should find ways to make it work, at least we aren't trying to play "positionless basketball" with our PG and Cs anymore, since 2-4 in the modern NBA are the most flexible.
Yeah, I totally forgot about Ellis. He should be able to play some SF. With someone like Wembanyama on deck, I think it could be a scenario where teams scramble to tank at the deadline and this is potentially where Monte can be a buyer if the season isn't a total disaster up to that point. Getting in as a 3rd team on deals with Barnes having the ability to help someone now or help them rebuild or maybe even both at the same time makes him too valuable IMO unless a deal now is a no brainer.
 
Based on history I think it is. Or at least possibly a little premature even though it could be a steal of deal in time, who knows. I like him as a player but Barnes was a far more proven commodity when the Kings signed him to this current deal. Also, it's kind of been proven that the Mavs overpaid Barnes at the time when they signed him. I also kind of don't like it for the Spurs because these are treadmill type moves when they just moved their one star piece. It's possible Johnson gets more burn as a go to type and maybe that will boost his value, but it could also put him kind of in a Barnes situation where it's clear he just isn't that guy. As for a Barnes/Johnson swap, to me, that's too much risk at this point. Imagine if this team does need to be torn down because things didn't go well? You're just adding onto the misery at that point. Too good to be bad, too bad to be good with few avenues to fully move into a rebuild. The franchise has been exactly there for the majority of this last 16 years. I don't think the Kings can even trade for him at this point anyway since he signed an extension right? At the deadline, maybe you look this way once you know where you stand. As it is, it's a lateral move IMO with more guarantees when this teams situation is still not a guarantee.
Agreed that the deal doesn’t make too much sense for the Spurs unless they truly do see potential in him to be a part of their future. I don’t think he’s ever done very well as a playmaker on offense, I remember last year him struggling a bit with his ISOs and if he was asked to be a main ball handler. He plays much better as an off ball shooter, with the athleticism and bounce to provide energy on offense, just like his second half numbers last year. His defense is where he can really grow as a player though. He’s still very young at 22 so that’s a possibility. That said with his age, I’d hope Barnes was a more proven commodity at 27 when the Kings got him than Johnson is at 22 with 3 years played. Kings don’t currently have anyone who brings his type of energy and enthusiastic style of play. For a young team, that’s important to have I feel. That alone makes a Barnes for Johnson swap worth it in my mind cause offensively statistically they’re the same player production wise. While Barnes arrow on defense is trending down, the bet would be on Johnson’s defensive arrow trending up.

I will add that if this team crashes and burns then a lot of people are leaving the organization. I don’t think this is a one year reboot though. I’ve viewed it as a two year rebuild/get right period. So I don’t imagine a tear down happening at any point this year honestly. We are a bit pot committed at this point. With Fox on his deal, Huerter with his, as it stands now Holmes, Sabo with 2 more years and Monk on a 2 year. Throw in Murray on his rookie deal. The money has been handed out and trading any of these guys after a “failed year or start to the year” this season is selling them on the dip. Keldon at 20 mil and dropping with each ascending year isn’t an immovable contract by any means even if he continues to play at the level he’s at now.
 
It’s also worth nothing that by most accounts, Barnes is considered the leader of the locker room. Grant had said before the end of his run that Barnes was clearly the team leader. That probably comes into play, especially when integrating a new coaching staff. It’s probably why they haven’t jumped on all the chances to move him for pretty good hauls in the past.
They have moved them because the front office priority was to make they play-offs.
 
Only thing that makes sense is a starting 3. Maybe one of the Spurs wings (Vassell or Johnson) for Barnes. Filler on either side. They get to to into full tank mode while opening up money next year. Trade Barnes mid year to a contender for a FRP.

Or the Pelicans for Trey Murphy. Herb Jones outplayed him last year and looks to be the better longer term prospect. Dyson Daniels likely eats into his wing minutes as well.
Why would either team do that?

Now Davion for one of the Pels young wings might be interesting.

Keon Ellis is 6’ 3” barefoot with a 6’ 8” wingspan and weighs 175lbs max. He isn’t guarding an NBA 3 but he could slide into a guard stopper role.