Trade Suggestion: Fox for Simmons + #28
- Thread starter kb02
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Yup. This is the deal. Do they risk a prime year of Embiid/Harris on if Ben Simmons will show up or not? Do they even want him to show up at this point?
And while they lose tremendously on paper, you can't ask for 2 better plug and play fits around Embiid's skill-set to keep them in title contention. If another GM is willing to negotiate against themselves, let em.
And while they lose tremendously on paper, you can't ask for 2 better plug and play fits around Embiid's skill-set to keep them in title contention. If another GM is willing to negotiate against themselves, let em.
I'm genuinely curious to see if Morey blinks. Despite his background in analytics, he prizes star power above all else. He's also stubborn, and has cultivated a reputation for being on the winning end of most trades. Yet Buddy/Barnes/top-5 protected pick is looking more and more like one of the best deals he's going to get before the season opens. And if Simmons really does hold out once regular season play begins, Morey will be lucky to get something along the lines of Buddy/Bagley/top-10 protected pick swap.
So much of me is hoping that McNair is able to opportunistically leverage his way into trading for an all-star caliber talent without giving up any core pieces. Fit issues aside, I still think Fox/Simmons/Haliburton develops into one of the most dynamic and devastating fast breaks in the entire NBA. With Mitchell coming off the bench, that's a core I can believe in. It would take some time and effort to fill in the gaps in the roster with additional shooting, of course, especially if the Kings had to part with Barnes in the deal, but Fox/Simmons/Hali/Mitchell are 25-and-under. The future could be electrifying, and at the very least, there's significant trade value within that core should fit issues overwhelm the possibility of sustained playoff success.
That said, the other part of me kind of wants to see what happens when neither Simmons nor Morey blink. Hah. It's such an unusual situation for an NBA franchise. Everybody involved on the Philly side seems to be digging themselves into the largest possible hole with no guarantee that they'll be able to climb out of it with their reputations intact.
So much of me is hoping that McNair is able to opportunistically leverage his way into trading for an all-star caliber talent without giving up any core pieces. Fit issues aside, I still think Fox/Simmons/Haliburton develops into one of the most dynamic and devastating fast breaks in the entire NBA. With Mitchell coming off the bench, that's a core I can believe in. It would take some time and effort to fill in the gaps in the roster with additional shooting, of course, especially if the Kings had to part with Barnes in the deal, but Fox/Simmons/Hali/Mitchell are 25-and-under. The future could be electrifying, and at the very least, there's significant trade value within that core should fit issues overwhelm the possibility of sustained playoff success.
That said, the other part of me kind of wants to see what happens when neither Simmons nor Morey blink. Hah. It's such an unusual situation for an NBA franchise. Everybody involved on the Philly side seems to be digging themselves into the largest possible hole with no guarantee that they'll be able to climb out of it with their reputations intact.
This isn't a comment on whether or not the Kings should do that deal. I'm wondering how you feel about the team immediately after that deal is done, given that trading two of our three best 3-pt shooters - Ty being the third - presumably diminishes some of Simmons' value.
1 - Fox/Davion
2 - Ty/Davis
3/4 - Simmons/Bags/Harkless/Metu/King
5 - Holmes/Len/Thompson
Unless you bring a rotation-level player with a 3-ball back in that trade (Danny Green? Korkmaz?), you literally have two players in that rotation who can be expected to top 35% from three (Haliburton, TD).
1 - Fox/Davion
2 - Ty/Davis
3/4 - Simmons/Bags/Harkless/Metu/King
5 - Holmes/Len/Thompson
Unless you bring a rotation-level player with a 3-ball back in that trade (Danny Green? Korkmaz?), you literally have two players in that rotation who can be expected to top 35% from three (Haliburton, TD).
The question wasn't directed at me, of course, but I'd offer that Rome wasn't built in a day. You don't trade for Ben Simmons believing that it will vault you into title contention immediately. You do so if you can buy low, and you do so with the knowledge that more work will need to be done on the margins of the roster to improve the team's long-term shooting outlook. In my estimation, that work is far easier to accomplish than the work of acquiring an all-star without needing to part with an all-star caliber talent in return.
Sorry I wasn't clear. For sure, the hope would be to add the needed pieces over time. And, for sure, it's much easier to do that than to acquire a top talent.
But I'm actually wondering how folks think the roster, as constituted immediately after the trade, would do. Championship contender? No? Playoffs? I would really hope so. In fact, I'd say if you DON'T think a Simmons for HB/Buddy swap is a ticket to the playoffs, given that he'd be considered by far the best player in that trade AND plays a position of need, you probably shouldn't do the deal.
Put differently, acquiring Simmons better put you 90+% of the way toward a championship-contending roster, cuz I don't think McNair will have a lot of margin to play in after that.
But I'm actually wondering how folks think the roster, as constituted immediately after the trade, would do. Championship contender? No? Playoffs? I would really hope so. In fact, I'd say if you DON'T think a Simmons for HB/Buddy swap is a ticket to the playoffs, given that he'd be considered by far the best player in that trade AND plays a position of need, you probably shouldn't do the deal.
Put differently, acquiring Simmons better put you 90+% of the way toward a championship-contending roster, cuz I don't think McNair will have a lot of margin to play in after that.
I think you're about right there, but I find the 3/4 mash-up a bit strange. So I'd say:
Fox/Davion
Hali/Davis/Ramsey
Simmons/Harkless/King
Bagley/Metu
Holmes/(Len/TT)
With the players in black being the 9-man rotation getting the bulk of the minutes. I do recognize that this team is going to be deficient in shooting the three. Hali and Davis will be fine, and Fox and Mitchell will have to step up a bit to keep the spacing. Simmons as a drive-and-kick wing may open up a bit more open shooting for Fox. Bagley was actually quite good from the corner last season (.413) which would help quite a bit.
Really the thinking behind this lineup is not so much that it will be a great outside shooting squad, but that it will make up for the outside shooting deficits with much (much!!) improved defense and better ball movement. I think if you add Simmons to this squad and you don't make the playoffs, then Simmons really truly is a bust.
Fox/Davion
Hali/Davis/Ramsey
Simmons/Harkless/King
Bagley/Metu
Holmes/(Len/TT)
With the players in black being the 9-man rotation getting the bulk of the minutes. I do recognize that this team is going to be deficient in shooting the three. Hali and Davis will be fine, and Fox and Mitchell will have to step up a bit to keep the spacing. Simmons as a drive-and-kick wing may open up a bit more open shooting for Fox. Bagley was actually quite good from the corner last season (.413) which would help quite a bit.
Really the thinking behind this lineup is not so much that it will be a great outside shooting squad, but that it will make up for the outside shooting deficits with much (much!!) improved defense and better ball movement. I think if you add Simmons to this squad and you don't make the playoffs, then Simmons really truly is a bust.
Yeah, I would almost rather move one of the young guys than Barnes since the idea is to compete now. You move your one close to actual wing in Barnes to pick up another player looking to play PG. The only good thing is potentially the young guys if they were able to maintain some value could potentially be moved for a 3rd star at some point. Maybe someone like Brad Beal.
turning Buddy Hield into Domas without giving up pretty much anything else would cement Monte’s status as the best GM to grace Sacramento since Petrie (not hard to do)
you’d still have a big man glut but Sabonis is good enough that you could just worry about all that junk later and roll with a Fox/Sabonis/Tyrese core for the time being.
I'm not sure "objectively" applies here. More like "subjectively". Because there are many that'd take Swipa over Simmons straight up.
Potential wise, due to his size, physique, defensive ability and ball-handling skills for his size -- Simmons would clearly have the edge in skills and potential. As he does on most players in the NBA.
But for reasons already discussed ad nauseam, it's in no way consensus that he's a better player than De'Aaron Fox as of today.
Potential wise, due to his size, physique, defensive ability and ball-handling skills for his size -- Simmons would clearly have the edge in skills and potential. As he does on most players in the NBA.
But for reasons already discussed ad nauseam, it's in no way consensus that he's a better player than De'Aaron Fox as of today.
To be clear - I’m would not trade Fox for Simmons. But this is based on projection - where I think Fox is headed and off-court considerations with Simmons. An All-NBA defensive player, that is also an elite playmaker, that is an All-Star, and is still 25 is objectively a better player than Fox has been.
Simmons is a great defensive player, and he also has floor vision, Fox also has floor vision but is elite at getting to the rim. And one of the top 4th quarter guys at scoring in the league. Simmons is a guy that other teams are now fouling at the end of games. He is a liability from the FT line. Fox needs to be better defensively and has the talent to do that. I’m not so sure Simmons shooting is ever going to improve.
Saying Simmons is better than Fox is an opinion that many won’t share.
Saying Simmons is better than Fox is an opinion that many won’t share.