More on Justin Jackson (split from game thread)

#1
As much as I like “new” Justin Jackson, I still hate him as a small ball 4.
He's the same useless player who got hot for a couple of games. Don't drink the kool aid. Running floaters from 15 feet are bad shots even if they go in. His free throw rate is a sham and his mechanics from deep are kind of jacked. He does not extend completely at the elbow. He short arms his shot a little. These subpar mechanics reared their head at NC where his three point rate was nothing special. He shot 34% from 19'9 in three years on 500 attempts. Pedestrian on a large sample size. Of course he gets bullied on D all the time. I'd rather see Benny Mac, ready to fill it up now that he has removed the excess arc from his jumper. Benny Mac is ready to go, put me in coach! I said recently Oubre has 2X the talent of Goose Egg Jackson, a player we should have chased hard to add when the Wizards put him up for grabs:

Oubre (win over Nuggets): 30 minutes 26 points (9-17 FGs) 11 rebounds 3 assists 2 steals !
Jackson (win over Hornets): 21 minutes 0-3 FGs 0 points 1 rebound 2 assists 0 steals

Oubre is 9 months younger than Goose Egg. Goose Egg Jackson's game against the Warriors was not a "coming out party", it was an anomaly and function of the excessive attention good teams pay to our primary weapons. That was getting into-the zone that occurs 1 out of every 100 games for a player of his caliber. By my calculations expect another 20+ game from Goose Egg Jackson sometime in the Spring of 2020. :cool:
 
#2
He's the same useless player who got hot for a couple of games. Don't drink the kool aid. Running floaters from 15 feet are bad shots even if they go in. His free throw rate is a sham and his mechanics from deep are kind of jacked. He does not extend completely at the elbow. He short arms his shot a little. These subpar mechanics reared their head at NC where his three point rate was nothing special. He shot 34% from 19'9 in three years on 500 attempts. Pedestrian on a large sample size. Of course he gets bullied on D all the time. I'd rather see Benny Mac, ready to fill it up now that he has removed the excess arc from his jumper. Benny Mac is ready to go, put me in coach! I said recently Oubre has 2X the talent of Goose Egg Jackson, a player we should have chased hard to add when the Wizards put him up for grabs:

Oubre (win over Nuggets): 30 minutes 26 points (9-17 FGs) 11 rebounds 3 assists 2 steals !
Jackson (win over Hornets): 21 minutes 0-3 FGs 0 points 1 rebound 2 assists 0 steals

Oubre is 9 months younger than Goose Egg. Goose Egg Jackson's game against the Warriors was not a "coming out party", it was an anomaly and function of the excessive attention good teams pay to our primary weapons. That was getting into-the zone that occurs 1 out of every 100 games for a player of his caliber. By my calculations expect another 20+ game from Goose Egg Jackson sometime in the Spring of 2020. :cool:
Blob. Cherry picking one game is not convincing. Jackson is getting better but I agree it’s not clear he is the answer
 
#6
Blob. Cherry picking one game is not convincing. Jackson is getting better but I agree it’s not clear he is the answer
I've been probably Jacksons biggest hater on here. and I did start to drink the kool aid that maybe he had turned a corner but maaaan 0-6 from 3pt the last 2 games is not good. hes come crashing back down to earth. his 3pt % got up to 37% but is now back in 36% which for a guy who needs to hit open 3's is terrible.

I hope we trade for Otto Porter and can move jj down to spot mins in emergencies. Jacksons just gonna be an below avg role player. this team needs a legit SF so bad. if we could just role out a legit 3 and D guy who could match up with actual SF's that would change this teams playoff trajectory.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#12
I've been probably Jacksons biggest hater on here. and I did start to drink the kool aid that maybe he had turned a corner but maaaan 0-6 from 3pt the last 2 games is not good. hes come crashing back down to earth. his 3pt % got up to 37% but is now back in 36% which for a guy who needs to hit open 3's is terrible.

I hope we trade for Otto Porter and can move jj down to spot mins in emergencies. Jacksons just gonna be an below avg role player. this team needs a legit SF so bad. if we could just role out a legit 3 and D guy who could match up with actual SF's that would change this teams playoff trajectory.
This is judging by statistics only. At least half of those misses were good shots that just didn't fall. IIRC, at least one of them was pretty much all the way through the basket before popping back out. While his shots haven't fallen, however, his D has stepped up. Hate all you like, but at least get the facts straight.
 
#15
Blob. Cherry picking one game is not convincing. Jackson is getting better but I agree it’s not clear he is the answer
Fans were losing their minds when he went off against Warriors. That was cherry picking. He shot 34% from three in college in 500 attempts. He has shot 33.3% from three on 318 attempts. I am not cherry picking when I cite these numbers. He's a pedestrian shooter from deep and his running floaters have worked for virtually no player in NBA history. He resorts to it because he lacks the athleticism and strength to play through contact. He gets overpowered on defense pretty much every game. This is the reality of the player fans want to get excited about? C'mon now, the talent is just not there. There is a difference between "getting hot" which a player can do on occasion versus sustainable talent that enables you to contribute when not in-the-zone.
 
#16
an ostrich can kill you, true, but Kelly Oubre cannot shoot better percentage from 3 than Justin Jackson over the long term.
Oubre is an athlete who can get to the rim. This threat to drive creates space for him to shoot. Jackson possess no such threat to get the D to back off. Oubre has better shot mechanics too.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
I think the equine has expired. Can we let it rest in peace so this game thread doesn't get confused with the one tomorrow? ;)
 
#20
Oubre is an athlete who can get to the rim. This threat to drive creates space for him to shoot. Jackson possess no such threat to get the D to back off. Oubre has better shot mechanics too.
and yet... :). anyway, Oubre will get a lot playing time in PHO now and if he improves and shows consistency we can go after him in FA as someone mentioned.
 
#21
This is judging by statistics only. At least half of those misses were good shots that just didn't fall. IIRC, at least one of them was pretty much all the way through the basket before popping back out. While his shots haven't fallen, however, his D has stepped up. Hate all you like, but at least get the facts straight.
Your rebuttal and defense of Goose Egg Jackson was subjective. Facts are objective. Here's a fact: You get as many points for an airball as one that "pretty much (goes) all the way through the basket before popping back out". A miss is a miss, something your boy JJ knows all about. :p
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
Your rebuttal and defense of Goose Egg Jackson was subjective. Facts are objective. Here's a fact: You get as many points for an airball as one that "pretty much (goes) all the way through the basket before popping back out". A miss is a miss, something your boy JJ knows all about. :p
You are only judging results in your assessment. I tend to also look at effort and circumstance. By your rationale, the Kings in 2002 were merely the losers in the WCF. I prefer looking at the big picture. Have a nice day.
 
#23
Oubre is 448th out of 474 in RPM. Justin Jackson is 195th.

Oubre's VORP is -.4 while Jackson's is +.2.

The eye test tells you that Oubre is twice the player Jackson is but the advanced stats don't like him for whatever reason.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#25
The hateful rhetoric against Jackson and WCS sucks. There are some really negative people here and I just shudder to think how venomous the mean people would be if it WEREN'T the best Kings season in over a dozen years. Wow just wow.
There's always gonna be those scapegoat players.

Personally, I miss the days of being a JT apologist while at the same time mercilessly bashing Landry in every game thread for his abysmal defense and rebounding!

I think a little game thread criticism is fine in the heat of the moment. That's what fans do! But yeah, I totally agree that the agenda stuff is getting played out. It's weird to root for Kings players to fail, just to be right. I'd rather eat crow and watch the Ws pile up!
 
#26
Oubre is 448th out of 474 in RPM. Justin Jackson is 195th.

Oubre's VORP is -.4 while Jackson's is +.2.

The eye test tells you that Oubre is twice the player Jackson is but the advanced stats don't like him for whatever reason.
Kelly Oubre makes WCS look like the pillar of consistency. He is in his 4th season and has proven to be a poor shooter, & a player that puts forth effort defensively (but continuously gets lost). He is still all about potential.
 
#27
This is judging by statistics only. At least half of those misses were good shots that just didn't fall. IIRC, at least one of them was pretty much all the way through the basket before popping back out. While his shots haven't fallen, however, his D has stepped up. Hate all you like, but at least get the facts straight.
you know who else was great at almost making open 3's but didn't? Ben Mac lol! a career end of the bench player.

here are the FACTS. it doesn't matter how close his misses are or if they were good looking. if he can make shots at the end of the day. the stats do matter. there are guys in this league. actually talented players that not only take good looking shots, but MAKE them! (mic drop) we need one of those players. not a guy that shoots at a 36% clip and has great looking bricks. he has basically 2 jobs make 3's and play ok defense.

hes playing ok defense true. its better. but a million g-leaguers could do the same. for one min I started praising him and immediately he proves he can't really cut it in this league. Hopefully we can land a SF move Shump to back up SF and JJ can sit next to Skal.
 
#29
There's always gonna be those scapegoat players.!
im sorry but scapegoat is when your getting blamed for something you didn't do. JJ didn't do anything for a long time. he still doesn't do anything most of the time. that's not scapegoating him. hes just not a great NBA level talent. its not his fault. hes not a bad guy. I love his personality. great guy, hard worker, great teammate. but hes just really not more than a iffy role player. WCS also isn't being scapegoated. he full well deserves the criticism he gets. hes so frustrating. its so obvious how talented he is but hes a space cadet that can't even in a contract year stay focused for a whole game or a few games in a row. I really can't think of any other players that would fit in this idea you have about hating on guys that don't deserve it. but in both these dudes cases its deserved.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#30
im sorry but scapegoat is when your getting blamed for something you didn't do. JJ didn't do anything for a long time. he still doesn't do anything most of the time. that's not scapegoating him. hes just not a great NBA level talent. its not his fault. hes not a bad guy. I love his personality. great guy, hard worker, great teammate. but hes just really not more than a iffy role player. WCS also isn't being scapegoated. he full well deserves the criticism he gets. hes so frustrating. its so obvious how talented he is but hes a space cadet that can't even in a contract year stay focused for a whole game or a few games in a row. I really can't think of any other players that would fit in this idea you have about hating on guys that don't deserve it. but in both these dudes cases its deserved.
I actually agree with your post for the most part. JJ was definitely a zero out there last season, and only recently has gotten better. WCS is super frustrating, and I've bashed him myself in plenty of game threads.

But there are absolutely times when those two (mostly WCS) get an unfair share of the blame in losses. Look no further back than the Suns game thread. People were acting like WCS lost it for us, when in reality it was Fox and Bogi playing like hot garbage for long stretches that allowed that irksome comeback. That would be the scapegoating I'm referencing. Not so much the level headed criticism after games like Portland where WCS got completely obliterated by Nurk.