What am I missing about Bruno Caboclo?

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
Since a couple of you are so high on him, I did some reading. Unless I'm overlooking something, his career (except for one possible outlier game in the D-League finals in 2017) has been unimpressive to say the least. Is it his 7'7" wingspan?

I don't see him as beating out anybody (including JaKarr Sampson or Jack Cooley) for a roster spot going forward. He's not better than anybody as far as I can tell. In fact, the only guy I think he might have given a run for his money was traded for him.

What am I missing?
 
#2
I think lately people have just been wanting to get him in to command the tank.

Other than that, we'd rather just see a new prospect out there playing rather than the same old veterans taking up the minutes at the end of a lost season.

Doubt many people think we have a good player on our hands.
 
#4
We traded Malachi for him. Malachi actually looked pretty good last year before his injuries so perhaps I would like to believe Kings management saw something in Bruno to justify the trade. It helps that he is long, athletic and plays a position of need. He is also a late bloomer, and English is not his 1st language so maybe this means room for growth.
Unfortunately I am very underwhelmed with Justin Jackson, nice guy but I don't think he's anything more than a so so role bench player. I would rather see Bruno and Sampson get minutes, at least to see what we have in them. Bottom line is I desperately want to see improvement at the SF position by next year.
 
#5
We traded Malachi for him. Malachi actually looked pretty good last year before his injuries so perhaps I would like to believe Kings management saw something in Bruno to justify the trade. It helps that he is long, athletic and plays a position of need. He is also a late bloomer, and English is not his 1st language so maybe this means room for growth.
Unfortunately I am very underwhelmed with Justin Jackson, nice guy but I don't think he's anything more than a so so role bench player. I would rather see Bruno and Sampson get minutes, at least to see what we have in them. Bottom line is I desperately want to see improvement at the SF position by next year.
At this point I'd just start Sampson at the SF next year if we do not get another SF through draft/free agency. Jackson is showing improvement but he needs to fix that 3pt shot. His floaters/back-cuts/movement look good. As far as Bruno is concerned I was hoping he would show more promise than he did so far, but truth be told, it was very limited minutes so still hoping...
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#6
For my part, I don't think that I've ever seen anything out of him beyond the famous Fracshilla "two years away from being two years away". But he was buried in Toronto on a team that has been in the hunt and can't exactly waste floor minutes, so there was at least a hope that we could throw him out there and see some flashes of potential that the Raptors couldn't afford to wait on. But nothing he's done in his short time here has seemed to justify that hope to me.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#7
I think lately people have just been wanting to get him in to command the tank.

Other than that, we'd rather just see a new prospect out there playing rather than the same old veterans taking up the minutes at the end of a lost season.

Doubt many people think we have a good player on our hands.
But... but... but...

That would make sense if the veterans were leading the charge. They're not, though. If this is all mere hype about the tank, I shall cease to worry that I'm missing something.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#8
You not missing a thing. He might not be in the league five years from now, maybe sooner. Nothing he does really stands out, he makes the occasional play where you applaud it but nothing to write home about.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#9
As near as I can tell the trade was not so much about getting back the Brazilian KD as getting back a ending contrat to open up a roster slot and save a little scratch for this off season. Since Bruno played out most of his time in the G league I would guess the assessment process now is do the Kings want to offer him a contract for Reno, or a 2-way, or just let him go. I don't think he has much hope of being one of the few FA's we sign for next season, although I would not be surprised to see him on the Summer league roster.
 
#10
Well when the trade first happened, I thought it was one of two things:

1. We basically let Malachi and Papa go in order to keep this guy. Gave some credence to my idea that maybe we saw something we liked in him and he fits the "new meta" of what everyone in the NBA is chasing in wing 3/4 flex players

2. We thought the roster spot and saving 1.5 mil or w/e we were paying Malachi was more important than keeping him on a cost-controlled contract.

Clearly looking like option 2 is the reasoning behind the deal. He's basically an open roster spot and an extra 1.5-2mil in cap
 
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#11
Well when the trade first happened, I thought it was one of two things:

1. We basically let Malachi and Papa go in order to keep this guy. Gave some credence to my idea that maybe we saw something we liked in him and he fits the "new meta" of what everyone in the NBA is chasing in wing 3/4 flex players

2. We thought the roster spot and saving 1.5 mil or w/e we were paying Malachi was more important than keeping him on a cost-controlled contract.

Clearly looking like option 2 is the reasoning behind the deal. He's basically an open roster spot and an extra 1.5-2mil in cap
So of our four first rounders in the 2017 draft, one was determined a waste after a year and a half and another was dumped to save cash.
 
#14
But... but... but...

That would make sense if the veterans were leading the charge. They're not, though. If this is all mere hype about the tank, I shall cease to worry that I'm missing something.
Jiimbobs post above yours is more on line with why i want to see more of Bruno. The tank atuff is secondary.

Bruno had big adjustment problems firstv2 years in league getting acclimated to the move across the globe and language barrier sounds like he also didnt get the best in terms of support to ease his transistion. A year orbso ago things settled and after picking up more english got back to bejng able to concentrate on basketball again and been developing since. He is a late bloomer coming to game later in life too so didnt have 10 years of basketball experience from youth to fall back on. He is a player that in 3 to 4 years, lie skall, projects to be a pretty solid NBA playet and has the potential to be sensational. Defensively i really like what ive seen from him, and while raw on offense he looks competent. 3 to 4 more years of hard work and he will emerge for whatever team decided to be patient with him
 
#15
The main thing I've noticed is that his length on defense is an asset. I can see why he's a top defender in the G-league. He's doesn't stand out with numbers or highlight plays but he plays tough in the post on defense despite his build and always seems to challenge the shooter. Dave Joerger was yelling at the late crew to jump the pick and roll and he did a good job. That might be his hope of sticking in the NBA. If he can effectively hedge the pick and roll or double then his length will be a nightmare for opposing guards. Other than that it's not like he's getting much of a role in the offense. He sets a screen here and there then slides out of the way so his teammates can run things.
 
#16
But... but... but...

That would make sense if the veterans were leading the charge. They're not, though. If this is all mere hype about the tank, I shall cease to worry that I'm missing something.
As one of the boards tank masters, I'd rather see Bruno out there getting minutes instead of Koufos and Carter at this point and it's tough to say that because Koufos is one of my favorite players. We would probably wind up with one less win on the year and that could jump us up 1 or 2 spots in the draft order. That's just the tank side of me thinking. The other side says I'd rather see a brand new guy out there playing than the same old guys, especially when their court time doesn't mean as much for the future as a guy like Bruno's does. But I can also see Joerger not wanting him out there with all the young guys because he probably doesn't know where to be half the time and that could mess them up as well. Either way I'd sacrifice a couple weeks of bad basketball for a shot to move up higher in the order.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#18
Jiimbobs post above yours is more on line with why i want to see more of Bruno. The tank atuff is secondary.

Bruno had big adjustment problems firstv2 years in league getting acclimated to the move across the globe and language barrier sounds like he also didnt get the best in terms of support to ease his transistion. A year orbso ago things settled and after picking up more english got back to bejng able to concentrate on basketball again and been developing since. He is a late bloomer coming to game later in life too so didnt have 10 years of basketball experience from youth to fall back on. He is a player that in 3 to 4 years, lie skall, projects to be a pretty solid NBA playet and has the potential to be sensational. Defensively i really like what ive seen from him, and while raw on offense he looks competent. 3 to 4 more years of hard work and he will emerge for whatever team decided to be patient with him
Nice assessment, even if I may not agree. Thanks. :)
 
#20
Nice assessment, even if I may not agree. Thanks. :)
He’s 22.
He has had zero opportunity to play on a great playoff team. There’s no substitute for playing time.

All of his measurements / athleticism are stuff you can’t train. It’s unworldly stuff plus he has 3pt range.

He’s two years away from being Buddy’s age. He might be dominating kids if he was still in college right now and a lottery pick this year.

If this guy did ever figure things out just enough he could be pretty valuable. Especially in today’s nba
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#21
He’s 22.
He has had zero opportunity to play on a great playoff team. There’s no substitute for playing time.

All of his measurements / athleticism are stuff you can’t train. It’s unworldly stuff plus he has 3pt range.

He’s two years away from being Buddy’s age. He might be dominating kids if he was still in college right now and a lottery pick this year.

If this guy did ever figure things out just enough he could be pretty valuable. Especially in today’s nba
Not sure what your point is there. LOTS of players have had little to no opportunity to play of a playoff team, let alone a "great playoff team." Everybody singing his praises talks about his size and athleticism and go to the "might be" scenarios. I'm not convinced...but I think having him spent time in the D-League is a good move for his progress, especially based on your final sentences.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#22
He’s 22.
He has had zero opportunity to play on a great playoff team. There’s no substitute for playing time.

All of his measurements / athleticism are stuff you can’t train. It’s unworldly stuff plus he has 3pt range.

He’s two years away from being Buddy’s age. He might be dominating kids if he was still in college right now and a lottery pick this year.

If this guy did ever figure things out just enough he could be pretty valuable. Especially in today’s nba
If your assessment of Bruno is correct I hope the Kings can keep him on as a prospect on a two way deal... I still hate to give up what might be the Kings only FA slot to rough prospect but it always sucks when they loose talent for nothing.
 
#23
Not sure what your point is there. LOTS of players have had little to no opportunity to play of a playoff team, let alone a "great playoff team." Everybody singing his praises talks about his size and athleticism and go to the "might be" scenarios. I'm not convinced...but I think having him spent time in the D-League is a good move for his progress, especially based on your final sentences.
How did you miss my point? Seemed pretty straight forward and simple. I think you need to chill on this "not convinced" thing and also your semi hating on people wanting to see more of him. This team is the one of the worst in the league. When your this bad you play your what if guys. Again theres no substitute for actual game mins (which he's never had the opportunity). This kid was snatched up and shipped here at 19th having lived in a totally different way of life and didn't even speak the language here. What were you doing at 19? I have friends that just went to college hours away from home and got home sick and had trouble adjusting to their new college lives and it took them a few years to fully get firing and locked in. Its been mentioned by the TOR beat writers that his move from BRA to CAN was rough on him. Maybe he would have been better suited to play college ball in the US or somewhere else first for a few years but what are you gonna do if a NBA team takes you and gives you millions.

As I see it, unlike Papa G this guys got the todays NBA game and build. How would he fair against college players right now? He's technically a senior in college. Im pretty sure he would probably be a monster in college right now. Again on his size alone in college he could put up stats plus he'd be shooting shorter 3's. I think he'd be a lottery pick in this years draft or at min a 1st rounder. So at 22 years old he's still an amazing prospect. He should be treated like a potential asset. I mean he's 22 lol! Plus even if we aren't taking as a team plan. It really is the time of year to play "what if" guys. People here like myself just wanna see this kid play huge mins and put him to the fire worst that could happen is we lose?
 
#24
Not sure what your point is there. LOTS of players have had little to no opportunity to play of a playoff team, let alone a "great playoff team." Everybody singing his praises talks about his size and athleticism and go to the "might be" scenarios. I'm not convinced...but I think having him spent time in the D-League is a good move for his progress, especially based on your final sentences.
I believe his point with your bolded quote is more Bruno hasn't had much NBA opportunity at end of bench on a top playoff team.
 
#25
VF,
You’ve had something against Bruno from the beginning. If you go back to his first game as a King, you mentioned his BBIQ problem (your assertion) multiple times. Not sure what you expected from his first game, but you had already made your mind up about him.
I don’t know if he’s any good, or if he has prospects, but I’d like to see him get some PT so we might know if he has a role beyond our last stretch of games. Without PT, we have no idea.
 
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#26
Sure sounds like a lot of us would like to see more Bruno for good reasons. This goes well beyond, for the tank.
And I very much agree, without playing time, we have no idea.
 
#27
How did you miss my point? Seemed pretty straight forward and simple. I think you need to chill on this "not convinced" thing and also your semi hating on people wanting to see more of him. This team is the one of the worst in the league. When your this bad you play your what if guys. Again theres no substitute for actual game mins (which he's never had the opportunity). This kid was snatched up and shipped here at 19th having lived in a totally different way of life and didn't even speak the language here. What were you doing at 19? I have friends that just went to college hours away from home and got home sick and had trouble adjusting to their new college lives and it took them a few years to fully get firing and locked in. Its been mentioned by the TOR beat writers that his move from BRA to CAN was rough on him. Maybe he would have been better suited to play college ball in the US or somewhere else first for a few years but what are you gonna do if a NBA team takes you and gives you millions.

As I see it, unlike Papa G this guys got the todays NBA game and build. How would he fair against college players right now? He's technically a senior in college. Im pretty sure he would probably be a monster in college right now. Again on his size alone in college he could put up stats plus he'd be shooting shorter 3's. I think he'd be a lottery pick in this years draft or at min a 1st rounder. So at 22 years old he's still an amazing prospect. He should be treated like a potential asset. I mean he's 22 lol! Plus even if we aren't taking as a team plan. It really is the time of year to play "what if" guys. People here like myself just wanna see this kid play huge mins and put him to the fire worst that could happen is we lose?
Nice post. Unless the coaching staff is convinced based on his performance in practice, I would like to see Bruno get some PT to get an idea if he should be part of the team next year or not. Losing right now is not really hurtful for us (I think it's better), and if Bruno gets minutes that are otherwise going to Vince/Temple/Randolph, I would very much welcome it. In fact, I would rather see Bruno get minutes instead of Bogs/Buddy, or even Justin. By this time, we have a fair idea as to what those guys are capable of, and we know they are part of the roster next year (barring any trade). A little fewer minutes will not really impact their development, and might even give them some rest (particularly for Bogs). With Bruno, we need to know if he'll even be in the league next year.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#28
Not sure what your point is there. LOTS of players have had little to no opportunity to play of a playoff team, let alone a "great playoff team." Everybody singing his praises talks about his size and athleticism and go to the "might be" scenarios. I'm not convinced...but I think having him spent time in the D-League is a good move for his progress, especially based on your final sentences.
How did you miss my point? Seemed pretty straight forward and simple. I think you need to chill on this "not convinced" thing and also your semi hating on people wanting to see more of him. This team is the one of the worst in the league. When your this bad you play your what if guys. Again theres no substitute for actual game mins (which he's never had the opportunity). This kid was snatched up and shipped here at 19th having lived in a totally different way of life and didn't even speak the language here. What were you doing at 19? I have friends that just went to college hours away from home and got home sick and had trouble adjusting to their new college lives and it took them a few years to fully get firing and locked in. Its been mentioned by the TOR beat writers that his move from BRA to CAN was rough on him. Maybe he would have been better suited to play college ball in the US or somewhere else first for a few years but what are you gonna do if a NBA team takes you and gives you millions.

As I see it, unlike Papa G this guys got the todays NBA game and build. How would he fair against college players right now? He's technically a senior in college. Im pretty sure he would probably be a monster in college right now. Again on his size alone in college he could put up stats plus he'd be shooting shorter 3's. I think he'd be a lottery pick in this years draft or at min a 1st rounder. So at 22 years old he's still an amazing prospect. He should be treated like a potential asset. I mean he's 22 lol! Plus even if we aren't taking as a team plan. It really is the time of year to play "what if" guys. People here like myself just wanna see this kid play huge mins and put him to the fire worst that could happen is we lose?
No, she actually doesn't "need to chill on this 'not convinced' thing." Her not being convinced is not her trying to dull your enthusiasm, nor is it 'hating.' I feel like a lot of people come into threads like this expecting that the only satisfactory outcome is for the OP to have their minds changed about the subject. But, sometimes somebody doesn't get why other people like (or are enthusiastic about) a player and, after they have other posters tell them what they like, or what they're enthusiastic about, they still don't get it... and that's just the end. She's not trying to yuck your yum.

With that said, part of the disconnect here is that @VF21, as much as anyone here (and probably more so than others), is a big believer in "earning your minutes." She has a very long and consistent track record of not supporting the principle of 'give all of the kids all of the minutes' (GAOTKAOTM), not even on a rebuilding team, such as the Kings are, and I think that she has generally been satisfied with Dave Joerger's coaching, and trusts his coaching decisions, so she's probably disposed to believe that, if Caboclo isn't getting minutes, that there's a reason, and that whatever that reason is is good enough for her. This gets contrasted with the sentiment of other Kings Fans, particularly those of the pro-tank variety, who do, in fact, support the principle of GAOTKAOTM, in accordance with the theory of "Why not? What's the worst thing that could happen?"

I tend to believe that both points of view have some validity but, since most of my favorite Sacramento Kings were role players, I am not overly sympathetic to the "earn your minutes" perspective. But the point is that she's not trying to rain on nobody's parade. My read on the OP is that she was just looking to see if there was some reason why Kings Fans were enthusiastic about Caboclo that she had not already considered.
 
#29
No, she actually doesn't "need to chill on this 'not convinced' thing." Her not being convinced is not her trying to dull your enthusiasm, nor is it 'hating.' I feel like a lot of people come into threads like this expecting that the only satisfactory outcome is for the OP to have their minds changed about the subject. But, sometimes somebody doesn't get why other people like (or are enthusiastic about) a player and, after they have other posters tell them what they like, or what they're enthusiastic about, they still don't get it... and that's just the end. She's not trying to yuck your yum.

With that said, part of the disconnect here is that @VF21, as much as anyone here (and probably more so than others), is a big believer in "earning your minutes." She has a very long and consistent track record of not supporting the principle of 'give all of the kids all of the minutes' (GAOTKAOTM), not even on a rebuilding team, such as the Kings are, and I think that she has generally been satisfied with Dave Joerger's coaching, and trusts his coaching decisions, so she's probably disposed to believe that, if Caboclo isn't getting minutes, that there's a reason, and that whatever that reason is is good enough for her. This gets contrasted with the sentiment of other Kings Fans, particularly those of the pro-tank variety, who do, in fact, support the principle of GAOTKAOTM, in accordance with the theory of "Why not? What's the worst thing that could happen?"

I tend to believe that both points of view have some validity but, since most of my favorite Sacramento Kings were role players, I am not overly sympathetic to the "earn your minutes" perspective. But the point is that she's not trying to rain on nobody's parade. My read on the OP is that she was just looking to see if there was some reason why Kings Fans were enthusiastic about Caboclo that she had not already considered.
Another poster pointed this out as well. VF21 questioned Bruno's BBIQ in game 1. Talk about a overreaction "hot take". Vets that get traded to new teams and systems take more than that to get integrated. Look at OKC? It took half a season for vet all-stars to figure out what to do. VF21's vary creation of this thread is an overreaction and intended to be combative / mocking anyone thats wanting him to play.

No ones "singing his praises". Again we just want him to play so we can have something to actually judge him on. Geez. I'd be on board with VF21 if people were calling him an all-star or saying he will be a star. Right now people just want to watch him play, thats it.

Its the time of the year most coaches play guys like this. Joerger has a rep of being way to vet friendly. People just are frustrated with that at times and want him to play. Theres really no reason not to right now.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#30
An overreaction to what, exactly? @VF21 had questions about Bruno Caboclo, and didn't want to hijack other threads to bring them up. That's why this thread was created. What do you think that that was an overreaction to? Do you consider the fact that she had a question in the first place to be an overreaction in itself?

Is questioning his basketball IQ in his first game as a King a hot take? I guess. But overreaction? That's a stretch, to me. The kid has played a grand total of 173 minutes in four seasons in the NBA, and only played in thirty-one out of a possible 320 games; it's not like there's enough data to say that his basketball IQ is above questioning.