Which potential top 6 pick fits us best?

[pdxKingsFan]

He might be but he is not good enough to lead you to the promised land as the #1 guy on the team. A great player sure. Someone who can be a super important player on a great team but he is not THE guy. At best, he is a #2 guy on the championship contender.

I can see what dude_12 is saying and I agree in a way. However, you don't need a LeBron or a Duncan type to win a championship. You could do it with a player that is a notch below that status but still a perennial all-star and a franchise level guy who plays both way or at least will in time.

I don't really disagree with that either. My point is there are maybe one or two Duncans and Lebrons in the league at any one time. There's a tier beneath that which are the perennial all-stars. There are maybe 10-15 of those in the league at any time and it's the championship team's job to figure out how to get 2-3 of those guys on their roster to make a run. I'd put "franchise player" in the tier just beneath that. Basically there should be 30 of them at any time, meaning they would likely be the best player on their team all else being even.

 

[ParniValjak]

I don't really disagree with that either. My point is there are maybe one or two Duncans and Lebrons in the league at any one time. There's a tier beneath that which are the perennial all-stars. There are maybe 10-15 of those in the league at any time and it's the championship team's job to figure out how to get 2-3 of those guys on their roster to make a run. I'd put "franchise player" in the tier just beneath that. Basically there should be 30 of them at any time, meaning they would likely be the best player on their team all else being even.

In theory yeas but not in practice. Think about it, Kings don't have a franchise player now. Neither does Atlanta or quite a number of teams. If I could get my hands on a Duncan or LeBron type, I would trade the whole bloody roster for him!

 

[pdxKingsFan]

In theory yeas but not in practice. Think about it, Kings don't have a franchise player now. Neither does Atlanta or quite a number of teams. If I could get my hands on a Duncan or LeBron type, I would trade the whole bloody roster for him!

Again agreed - but quite a few teams have two or three guys that might be franchise guys on other teams.

We arguably have 2 players with that ceiling with a crack at a third in this draft although they are 2-4 years away. But none at the moment. I think "franchise" guys and even that tier just under guaranteed superstar aren't necessarily noticeable on draft day. Like look at Steph who is arguably now the biggest star in the league, he was picked much later in his draft class.

I was just explaining how I view the different tiers of "stars". LeBron and Duncan were guys that teams were talking about tanking for a year in advance. We haven't had the level of talent come up in 15 years since. Of course the game has really changed the past 5-6 years and so determining when a player is can't miss 2 years before they enter the draft is probably a lot trickier than it used to be.

 

[allrightythen]

Porter cleared to play.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/coll...cle_8ebac19e-073f-513d-b13b-f893dd53d9ea.html

This could make things interesting. I liked his fit with the Kings prior to the injury. If he's healthy he has to be an option for the Kings.

 

[allrightythen]

Besides Trae Young it seems that all of the top prospects are either bigs or SFs, which is exactly what the Kings needs. There are too many guys that I like in this draft.

 

[The_Jamal]

Porter cleared to play.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/coll...cle_8ebac19e-073f-513d-b13b-f893dd53d9ea.html

This could make things interesting. I liked his fit with the Kings prior to the injury. If he's healthy he has to be an option for the Kings.

Any chance Mizzou gets in the tourney?

 

[allrightythen]

Any chance Mizzou gets in the tourney?

They'd have to make a run but I think they're a pretty long shot.

 

[gunks]

Besides Trae Young it seems that all of the top prospects are either bigs or SFs, which is exactly what the Kings needs. There are too many guys that I like in this draft.

Good problem to have considering the sheer number of teams tied with us for last in the league right now.

Picking top 5 has gone from lock to iffy.

 

[Joshoua]

If we miss on the top 7 we should take Wendall Carter over Bridges and that’s rather easily.

6’10-260 huge frame with a 7’3 wingspan 9’0 reach has comparisons to Al Holford and would fit nicely to WCS and Giles. He can punish smaller defenders in the paint, a good rebounder, has toughness, is a solid shot blocker, solid passer, and is a great shooter.

A big that can stretch the court is a dire need for Fox and the rest of the team. He’s shooting 50% from 3 on 1.4 attempts and is shooting 71% on 4.3 FT attempts.

Since Bagley has been out:
19-10-2a-4b 7-14(0-1 3s) 5-6 ft
13-13-4a-2b 5-9. (1-2 3s) 2-4 ft
15-10-0a-3b 4-14(1-1 3s) 6-7ft
18-9- 6a-3b 6-10(1-1 3s) 5-5ft

 

[Kingsfan23]

Efforts like tonight and I’m thinking I spoke too soon about JJ being a long term starting option, although if Buddy continues to improve I’d still like to see if Bogdan/Buddy can at all coexist in the latter part of the season

 

[206Fan]

Efforts like tonight and I’m thinking I spoke too soon about JJ being a long term starting option, although if Buddy continues to improve I’d still like to see if Bogdan/Buddy can at all coexist in the latter part of the season

I doubt it. Buddy is a poor defender at SG because he just doesn't have the lateral quickness. That's already 1 defensive liability. You have Bogdan who's 6'6 210lbs. He's just not big nor strong enough to defender SFs. Yeah he has a 7ft wingspan which offers versatility, but he still doesn't have the frame against the top 15 SFs. We won't face them every night, but you need at least 1 SF with good position on every team. JJ has the length, but not the frame nor strength. I would even say JJ is more of a SG right now.

So 2 defensive liabilities at both wing position? I don't see it working. I think Bogdan-Budyd can play together, but not as our starting SG and SF. Maybe if they provided some type of advantage for us? But I see more disadvantages.

 

[jiimbob]

Watching Arizona vs Oregon, I dont see how you pass on Ayton if available. But yeah, Im not impressed by Justin so if Donic or a healthy Porter is the pick I'm good.

 

[Joshoua]

Watching Arizona vs Oregon, I dont see how you pass on Ayton if available. But yeah, Im not impressed by Justin so if Donic or a healthy Porter is the pick I'm good.

You pass on him cause Doncic is available

 

[bajaden]

In theory yeas but not in practice. Think about it, Kings don't have a franchise player now. Neither does Atlanta or quite a number of teams. If I could get my hands on a Duncan or LeBron type, I would trade the whole bloody roster for him!

I get your point, and I would love to have a franchise player, but a franchise player can't do it on his own. Jordan couldn't until he got Pippen and other good support players. Duncan alone couldn't have done it. You need the franchise player, but you also need those players just a notch or two below him. In theory we had a franchise player in Cousins, but he couldn't will us to the promised land. Wasn't his fault. He certainly tried.

If the Kings want a franchise player, and they don't want to develop him themselves, then they have to build a team that a franchise player would want to sign with. Point being, is that if your were to trade away the whole current roster for said player, he would leave as soon as possible because he would be on a bad team. By the way, we don't know that we don't have a franchise player on the roster right now. Too early to tell. No one would have called Cousins a franchise player his first year in the league.

The downside of trying to rebuild completely with young players, is that the team will be downright terrible for a period of time. To be honest, the team has been better than I thought it would be. But if you choose wisely, you'll end up with 4 or 5 future players out of the mix, all at different levels of value. One might be the franchise player your looking for. One or two might be a 2nd or 3rd option in the offense. One may be a top flight defender. You get my thought. If so, and I admit that there are a lot if's there, but if so, then your sitting pretty, because most of these players aren't costing you much in regards to the cap. You'll end up with a nice young talented core, and a ton of money to fill in the gaps. Perhaps you'll even attract a superstar.

That's basically what the T-Wolves did. One could say the Warriors did it with Durant, but they really didn't need him. There was a point in time when the Warriors and the Kings were sharing the same bed. Three years later, the Warriors were flirting with a championship and the Kings were still changing the sheets. It can be done!! But you have to let it play out.

 

[bajaden]

Any chance Mizzou gets in the tourney?

I would say that their chances are slim. Right now their tied for the 7th and 8th spots in the South Eastern Conference, which only has two ranked teams at the moment, Auburn and Tennessee. It doesn't look good for Kentucky either, and their ahead of Missouri. It all depends on how many teams make it out of the SEC, which has been turned upside down this year.

 

[bajaden]

If we miss on the top 7 we should take Wendall Carter over Bridges and that’s rather easily.

6’10-260 huge frame with a 7’3 wingspan 9’0 reach has comparisons to Al Holford and would fit nicely to WCS and Giles. He can punish smaller defenders in the paint, a good rebounder, has toughness, is a solid shot blocker, solid passer, and is a great shooter.

A big that can stretch the court is a dire need for Fox and the rest of the team. He’s shooting 50% from 3 on 1.4 attempts and is shooting 71% on 4.3 FT attempts.

Since Bagley has been out:
19-10-2a-4b 7-14(0-1 3s) 5-6 ft
13-13-4a-2b 5-9. (1-2 3s) 2-4 ft
15-10-0a-3b 4-14(1-1 3s) 6-7ft
18-9- 6a-3b 6-10(1-1 3s) 5-5ft

Which Bridges? Miles or Mikal. I would take him over Miles, but not over Mikal.

 

[bajaden]

I doubt it. Buddy is a poor defender at SG because he just doesn't have the lateral quickness. That's already 1 defensive liability. You have Bogdan who's 6'6 210lbs. He's just not big nor strong enough to defender SFs. Yeah he has a 7ft wingspan which offers versatility, but he still doesn't have the frame against the top 15 SFs. We won't face them every night, but you need at least 1 SF with good position on every team. JJ has the length, but not the frame nor strength. I would even say JJ is more of a SG right now.

So 2 defensive liabilities at both wing position? I don't see it working. I think Bogdan-Budyd can play together, but not as our starting SG and SF. Maybe if they provided some type of advantage for us? But I see more disadvantages.

I agree that I don't see Bog's and Buddy at the two and three. Maybe in certain situations, but on a regular basis, no! Bog's would have to play the three because of his length. Buddy struggles at times against some of the SG's right now. So we would be weakening our defense. Bog's has turned out to be a pretty good defender at the SG position, so it doesn't make any sense to move him to a position where he'll be at a disadvantage at times. The better answer would be to acquire a SF, either through the draft, or free agency. That way you can have Buddy come off the bench, where he's been very effective offensively.

 

[ParniValjak]

I get your point, and I would love to have a franchise player, but a franchise player can't do it on his own. Jordan couldn't until he got Pippen and other good support players. Duncan alone couldn't have done it. You need the franchise player, but you also need those players just a notch or two below him. In theory we had a franchise player in Cousins, but he couldn't will us to the promised land. Wasn't his fault. He certainly tried.

If the Kings want a franchise player, and they don't want to develop him themselves, then they have to build a team that a franchise player would want to sign with. Point being, is that if your were to trade away the whole current roster for said player, he would leave as soon as possible because he would be on a bad team. By the way, we don't know that we don't have a franchise player on the roster right now. Too early to tell. No one would have called Cousins a franchise player his first year in the league.

The downside of trying to rebuild completely with young players, is that the team will be downright terrible for a period of time. To be honest, the team has been better than I thought it would be. But if you choose wisely, you'll end up with 4 or 5 future players out of the mix, all at different levels of value. One might be the franchise player your looking for. One or two might be a 2nd or 3rd option in the offense. One may be a top flight defender. You get my thought. If so, and I admit that there are a lot if's there, but if so, then your sitting pretty, because most of these players aren't costing you much in regards to the cap. You'll end up with a nice young talented core, and a ton of money to fill in the gaps. Perhaps you'll even attract a superstar.

That's basically what the T-Wolves did. One could say the Warriors did it with Durant, but they really didn't need him. There was a point in time when the Warriors and the Kings were sharing the same bed. Three years later, the Warriors were flirting with a championship and the Kings were still changing the sheets. It can be done!! But you have to let it play out.

Look I don't disagree with anything that you have said. Of course you need to have the supporting cast because these guys are not able to do it alone no matter how great they are.

However, I do believe that it is easier to put a good supporting cast around the franchise player than it is to get one. Sacramento has never been a place players really want to come to. Webber didn't want to show up here once he got traded to us. Vlade is our biggest FA signing and that was because he wanted to be closer to his family in LA and none of the LA teams really were interested in getting him, certainly not at the price that Kings paid.

Bottom line is, even if you have 5 very good players without your franchise guy, then you are not going to be going too far into the play offs. Sure you could make the play offs but your appearances in them would be numbered.

And on Cousins, while he did not have the production of a franchise player in his rookie deal, there were certainly games where he showed flashes of how much of a match up nightmare he will be in 2-3 years time. Getting the likes of LeBron and Duncan who come in and are all-stars in their rookie year is very rare. I like our core. I also like the culture that is being built and the progress that is being made. At the start of the season, Kings don't come back against OKC after being 20+ down but this team is competing all the time and are hungry to give it their all to win (which they are still not good enough to win consistently at this moment). In 2-3 years time, the core of this team will be good. It just needs a franchise player or two to propel it to the next level after that. Fox has shown flashes that maybe he can be one. If Kings can get themselves another one this draft and if Giles is anywhere near as good as advertised, then it onwards and upwards from here for this team for years to come.

 

[Joshoua]

Which Bridges? Miles or Mikal. I would take him over Miles, but not over Mikal.

Miles without question and I gotta look deeper into Mikal but Carter is good real good

 

[Blob]

Trae Young leads the NCAA in scoring and assists per game. He might never be the next Steph Curry, but he certainly has the potential as a scorer and play maker to be a very good player at the next level. I would say a comparison to Mike Bibby is more realistic than Steph Curry, and if a team gets that caliber of player they should be very happy with their selection.



Isaac came out of college with a few significant concerns. First, on the offensive end is unlikely to ever be a go to player, and will most likely emerge as a 3rd or 4th option on a good team. Second, he is rake thin and unless he bulks up he might struggle on the defensive end and with durability. And third, it is not clear what his best position in the league will be and he's not an ideal fit at any given position, especially at the 4 and 5 which some people think he might end up playing.



Giles needs to get healthy and stay healthy, then maybe he can become a useful player. At this point it is too early to pin any hopes on him becoming a key part in this team's future.

Randle is a good call in free agency if the price is right. Maybe he can develop into a 3rd option if he chooses the right team.



Bamba is worth consideration because his defensive ability should translate to the NBA, but he is still raw and arguably needs more development than Jackson. Would I take Bamba over Jackson? Perhaps, there are things I prefer about Bamba to Jackson, but there are things I prefer about Jackson to Bamba. It's a tough call. I think if we end up with either of these guys we should be happy.



Bridges is worth consideration if our pick falls outside the top seven. I would argue that, in no particular order, Ayton, Jackson, Bamba, Doncic, Young, and Bagley are the current top seven in this year's draft. After that I would place Mikal and Miles Bridges, Knox, Sexton, and Carter in the same tier. I wouldn't want to see us draft them with a top five pick, but would be happy enough with Bridges if we select outside the top seven because maybe he can be a diamond in the rough. There always seems to be someone taken outside the top picks that emerges after being ignored by plenty of people, so perhaps he can be one of them.

The price for Julius Randle is a MAX contract, that is, 4 year / 100 plus million.

He's going to get it. If not from us, or the Lakers, from another team, perhaps the Bulls, Hawks or Mavs.

There are 5-6 teams including us and the Lakers with the cap space to throw max dollars at him.

Source

As a player in his 3rd year he is eligible for 25% of the salary cap which is projected at 101M in 2018-19 with 6-8% raises.

We can create the room a max contract for him easily if Temple, Koufos or Shumpart opt-out.

Otherwise Vlade (with help from others) will have to get creative but it can be done.

We are already at 20M in projected space which is why I was advocating hard for us to dump George Hill before the deal even if it mattered getting no assets back in return.

There were fans insisting on a 1st round pick from Cleveland to trade away Hill.

Are you kidding me?! Goodbye and don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you!

For as harsh as I have been on Vlade, I commend him on that deal. Well done!

As far as Miles Bridges, why do you NOT think he is worthy of going Top 7?

The guy is great. I will expand on Bridges another time but let me say this real quick:

Miles Bridges is a lefty. He is also prefers to dunk with his right hand. He jabs with his left foot and goes to his left to shoot his silky smooth J. Then he goes hard to the hole with his right hand and dunks and jumps off his left foot.

You understand this ambidexterity is a favorable attribute to keep the defense off-balance?

95% of "draft gurus" are not aware what I just said.

Trae Young is fools gold. You will see.

Do you have any idea how easily Frank Mason and De'Aaron would SMOTHER him defensively and challenge him to go by him or do anything to create space?

There's a requisite amount of athleticism and size and speed to compete against NBA players and Trae Young is very borderline. He has a great shot. He has a beautiful shot. So did Jimmer.

I reserve the right to change my opinion on Trae Young (because it is still early) but for now I see him as a mid first rounder at best.

 

[Blob]

I agree that I don't see Bog's and Buddy at the two and three. Maybe in certain situations, but on a regular basis, no! Bog's would have to play the three because of his length. Buddy struggles at times against some of the SG's right now. So we would be weakening our defense. Bog's has turned out to be a pretty good defender at the SG position, so it doesn't make any sense to move him to a position where he'll be at a disadvantage at times. The better answer would be to acquire a SF, either through the draft, or free agency. That way you can have Buddy come off the bench, where he's been very effective offensively.

Nonsense.

 

[Mike]

The price for Julius Randle is a MAX contract, that is, 4 year / 100 plus million.

He's going to get it. If not from us, or the Lakers, from another team, perhaps the Bulls, Hawks or Mavs.

There are 5-6 teams including us and the Lakers with the cap space to throw max dollars at him.

Source

As a player in his 3rd year he is eligible for 25% of the salary cap which is projected at 101M in 2018-19 with 6-8% raises.

Randle is not really worth a max contract. His strength on the offensive end is within five feet of the basket. Now that is okay if you are a good rebounder and shot blocker, but he's not. So unless he can develop a consistent three point shot and become an inside and outside threat from the PF position, or he can improve as a rebounder and shot blocker while playing the C position, then I would be hesitant at offering him a sizable contract.

Now I am willing to admit he's been stuck with limited minutes this season and has been in and out of their starting line up. If you look at his per 36 minutes stats he is averaging 21.3 points, 10.9 rebounds, and 0.9 blocks. Steady stats. They are very similar to a Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets Al Jefferson (per game averages from 2013-14: 21.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, 1.1 blocks). I guess that is not a bad comparison, but in all honesty Randle is not an ideal fit next to Willie because neither player shoots the treys, and neither are dominant defensive players.

If Randle wants a max contract, let him go elsewhere.

As far as Miles Bridges, why do you NOT think he is worthy of going Top 7?

The guy is great. I will expand on Bridges another time but let me say this real quick:

Miles Bridges is a lefty. He is also prefers to dunk with his right hand. He jabs with his left foot and goes to his left to shoot his silky smooth J. Then he goes hard to the hole with his right hand and dunks and jumps off his left foot.

You understand this ambidexterity is a favorable attribute to keep the defense off-balance?

95% of "draft gurus" are not aware what I just said.

The reason Miles Bridges is not worthy of a top seven picks is because there are better players with more upside ahead of him. Now Miles is not a bad talent, but he's not a transcendent talent. He's athletic which is great, but he has a fairly lackluster wingspan (roughly 6'9) and his standing reach is not impressive either (8'7). He doesn't possess a consistent outside shot and his shooting isn't impressive.

Let's remember he decided to go back to college for a second year and so far he has not boosted his offensive production. His total rebounds have fallen from 8.3 to 6.8, though he has boosted his assists from 2.1 to 2.8. As a shooter his 3 point percentage and field goal percentages have fallen marginally. To date in college he has not shown any signs that he can become a focal point on a team and will more than likely be a role player at the next level. I think he projects favorably to Jae Crowder.

Last year he was a potential late lottery pick mainly because of his athleticism and once again he projects to be a late lottery pick. When I am looking for a top seven pick I want someone that can become a focal point on a good team, or at the very least be a second option on a good team. Based off this year's class I would say Ayton, Jackson Jr, Bamba, Porter, Bagley, Doncic, and Young all have more potential than him. I would even say that Collin Sexton, Mikal Bridges, Wendell Carter and Kevin Knox have more upside than Miles Bridges.

So yes, I don't see Miles as a top seven pick, and I think he's likely to fall out of the top ten.

 

[eMBarkat10n]

Randle is not really worth a max contract. His strength on the offensive end is within five feet of the basket. Now that is okay if you are a good rebounder and shot blocker, but he's not. So unless he can develop a consistent three point shot and become an inside and outside threat from the PF position, or he can improve as a rebounder and shot blocker while playing the C position, then I would be hesitant at offering him a sizable contract.

Now I am willing to admit he's been stuck with limited minutes this season and has been in and out of their starting line up. If you look at his per 36 minutes stats he is averaging 21.3 points, 10.9 rebounds, and 0.9 blocks. Steady stats. They are very similar to a Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets Al Jefferson (per game averages from 2013-14: 21.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, 1.1 blocks). I guess that is not a bad comparison, but in all honesty Randle is not an ideal fit next to Willie because neither player shoots the treys, and neither are dominant defensive players.

If Randle wants a max contract, let him go elsewhere.

THIS x Infinity. I do not want Randle anywhere near this team. Let him take his "talent" elsewhere...

 

[Joshoua]

THIS x Infinity. I do not want Randle anywhere near this team. Let him take his "talent" elsewhere...

People who want Randle haven’t seen him play

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

FYI Tankathon.com has us taking Doncic #1, Ayton #2, Jackson #3 or #4, and Porter at #5 and #6. At least the 30 or so times I did it. I never got us taking Bagley or Young. I think this is pretty realistic for us honestly. Jackson has flown up draft boards and is even 3 on nbadraft.net. A good tournament could solidify that.

 

[206Fan]

It's easy to be sold on Ayton:

He is a better prospect than Cousins was out of Kentucky. He's dominating in all the same ways. Averaging 19.9pts 11rebs 2blks on 61% FG.

 

[Kingsfan23]

FYI Tankathon.com has us taking Doncic #1, Ayton #2, Jackson #3 or #4, and Porter at #5 and #6. At least the 30 or so times I did it. I never got us taking Bagley or Young. I think this is pretty realistic for us honestly. Jackson has flown up draft boards and is even 3 on nbadraft.net. A good tournament could solidify that.

Haven’t studied the prospects yet, but we are most needy at SF/C IMO. Skal/Giles are better prospects than we have at the aforementioned IMO

 

[ParniValjak]

It's easy to be sold on Ayton:

He is a better prospect than Cousins was out of Kentucky. He's dominating in all the same ways. Averaging 19.9pts 11rebs 2blks on 61% FG.

I am not convinced he is a better prospect than DMC at Kentucky. One thing to keep in mind is that Arizona have built their whole team around Ayton. Cousins was asked to play a specific role and was not able to display his full array of skills that he started displaying once he got to the NBA. DMC had Wall, Bledsoe, Patterson and I think one other player that was drafted in the first round. DMC was more of a role player on that team but he was still a highly skilled dude, more than Ayton is at the moment.

 

[eMBarkat10n]

People who want Randle haven’t seen him play

Which is pretty sad if you ask me...Because one really doesn't have to see him play a whole lot to not want him on their favorite team's roster.

 

[206Fan]

I am not convinced he is a better prospect than DMC at Kentucky. One thing to keep in mind is that Arizona have built their whole team around Ayton. Cousins was asked to play a specific role and was not able to display his full array of skills that he started displaying once he got to the NBA. DMC had Wall, Bledsoe, Patterson and I think one other player that was drafted in the first round. DMC was more of a role player on that team but he was still a highly skilled dude, more than Ayton is at the moment.

Arizona isn't built through Ayton, but they do heavily feature Ayton. They have another low-post scorer in Ristic right next to him which kills floor spacing, but Ayton finds a way to manage anyways. Ayton has the better size and frame. He has quicker feet than Cousins. Ayton's scoring ability is better than UK/rookie Cousins. Cousins had better post footwork, but Ayton has a much better touch around the rim. Cousins' efficiency has always left a lot to be desired before he added his 3pt shot. Shot 43% as a rookie which is terrible for a low-post C. Ayton is the slightly better shooter. Cousins didn't add a mid-range game until his 3rd year in the NBA, while we're seeing Ayton take at least 2 a game now. Cousins was slightly a better rebounder. He was also a better passer. Ayton is a better rim protector. He also has quicker feet on defense. He's a much better defensive prospect than Cousins all-around. There's nowhere that Cousins beats him on that end.

I think Ayton is a much better prospect than Cousins at Kentucky. Ayton is more skilled and has a better physical profile.