Following 2018 draftees

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The guy that I'm highly doubtful of is Bamba. I don't see him as a top 10 player, much less top 5. He has bust written all over him if he's a top 5. You'll be waiting for five years to see if he'll ever become a decent offensive player.
I don’t know about that he’ll get 10 points off pick and roll and stuff like that. Then throw in a decent looking shot he’ll be getting 15ppg if a guy like WCS without a jumper can get 12ppg
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I don’t know about that he’ll get 10 points off pick and roll and stuff like that. Then throw in a decent looking shot he’ll be getting 15ppg if a guy like WCS without a jumper can get 12ppg
That's not what you want from your top 5 pick. That guy will never be an All Star because he's so far away from being a good offensive player. Ten points doesn't cut it.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That's not what you want from your top 5 pick. That guy will never be an All Star because he's so far away from being a good offensive player. Ten points doesn't cut it.
I think that if your drafting Bamba, your drafting him for his defense and rebounding. You hope he becomes an offensive contributor in a year or two. That said, he's very raw as a post up player. He does have an outside shot, which he's been a bit more consistent with of late, so there's something there to work with. If you put him on a team surrounded by good offensive players, he could be very valuable in a Tyson Chandler sort of way.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I don’t know about that he’ll get 10 points off pick and roll and stuff like that. Then throw in a decent looking shot he’ll be getting 15ppg if a guy like WCS without a jumper can get 12ppg
Actually Willie does have a jumper, and he's fairly efficient with it, especially from 15ft out to the three pt line. He shoots around 42% in that area. He's very efficient at the basket where he shoots 68.5%. His worse spot on the floor, not counting three's, amazingly is from 3 to 10 feet from the basket. I think he's made progress with his jumper, but needs to put in more work on it over the summer. Bamba doesn't really have a jumper so to speak. It's more of a set shot. Nothing wrong with that, just clarifying.

I agree with Kingster, in that I don't think Bamba is a top five pick. Doesn't mean some team won't take him there, but I wouldn't. I do have him in my top ten though. Doncic, Ayton, Jaren Jackson, Bagley, Porter, Young, Mikal Bridges, Bamba, Miles Bridges, Carter, Sexton.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
By the way, great games today by Mikal Bridges and Donte DiVincenzo to lead Villanova to a 95 to 79 win over Xavier. Bridges had 25 pts on 10 of 15 shooting overall while going 4 for 7 from the three. DiVincenzo the 6'5" combo guard had 21 pts on 8 of 12 shooting while going 5 for 7 from the three. Donte added 9 rebounds, 9 assists against 1 turnover, and 1 steal. Both these guys can score the ball, but what makes them both special, is that both are terrific defenders.

Michigan St. had a major scare going down 26 pts in the first half, but came back in the 2nd half to eek out a win. Jaren Jackson didn't have one of his stellar games. He got himself in foul trouble which cost him minutes. He did have 11 pts if memory serves, but zero rebounds.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I think that if your drafting Bamba, your drafting him for his defense and rebounding. You hope he becomes an offensive contributor in a year or two. That said, he's very raw as a post up player. He does have an outside shot, which he's been a bit more consistent with of late, so there's something there to work with. If you put him on a team surrounded by good offensive players, he could be very valuable in a Tyson Chandler sort of way.
Sure, if you take him at, say, #25 or lower instead of at #5 or higher he might make sense. He's got a long ways to go on offense, and today's NBA doesn't put nearly the value on a defensive purest at center as they used to. To my mind, you could make a case that in the 3 point shooting-no-hand check-NBA of today that a guy like Bamba easily loses ten slots in the draft compared to twenty years ago. It could be twenty or twenty-five slots. You've got to ask yourself: How much value does a no-offense defensive shot blocker have in an NBA in which on a regular basis players turn down two point shots to give open three point shots for their team mates? Bamba isn't going to be blocking 3 point shots; he's going to be blocking the diminished and less valuable two point shots.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Sure, if you take him at, say, #25 or lower instead of at #5 or higher he might make sense. He's got a long ways to go on offense, and today's NBA doesn't put nearly the value on a defensive purest at center as they used to. To my mind, you could make a case that in the 3 point shooting-no-hand check-NBA of today that a guy like Bamba easily loses ten slots in the draft compared to twenty years ago. It could be twenty or twenty-five slots. You've got to ask yourself: How much value does a no-offense defensive shot blocker have in an NBA in which on a regular basis players turn down two point shots to give open three point shots for their team mates? Bamba isn't going to be blocking 3 point shots; he's going to be blocking the diminished and less valuable two point shots.
Never said he was a top five pick. Matter of fact, he's never been in my top five all year. I was merely describing the type of player he is and how he might be used. Where he ends up getting drafted will probably depend on who is drafting, and their needs.
 
Never said he was a top five pick. Matter of fact, he's never been in my top five all year. I was merely describing the type of player he is and how he might be used. Where he ends up getting drafted will probably depend on who is drafting, and their needs.
Bamba's ideal fit (if he's willing to accept the role) is as a Clint Capela type player. Rebound, defend the rim, and on offense be inside for dump offs or set picks and roll hard to the hoop. He can be a bigger defensive anchor than Capela but he'll take a while to get anywhere near as instinctive on offense. Is a Clint Capela type (even a deluxe version) worth a top 5 pick in a top heavy draft. Probably not, but then I think Capela is also underrated in general. Advanced statistics allow him to have a solid case that he should have been an all-star. If the Kings still had Karl as their coach then I could see taking him high. With Joerger? Probably not nearly the same value since he asks for different things from his bigs.

It's why Ayton is still at the top of my Kings board. He's underwhelming on defense given his physical skills but his offensive versatility (passing, shooting) along with his post scoring and rebounding make him a good fit for what Joerger runs.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Bamba's ideal fit (if he's willing to accept the role) is as a Clint Capela type player. Rebound, defend the rim, and on offense be inside for dump offs or set picks and roll hard to the hoop. He can be a bigger defensive anchor than Capela but he'll take a while to get anywhere near as instinctive on offense. Is a Clint Capela type (even a deluxe version) worth a top 5 pick in a top heavy draft. Probably not, but then I think Capela is also underrated in general. Advanced statistics allow him to have a solid case that he should have been an all-star. If the Kings still had Karl as their coach then I could see taking him high. With Joerger? Probably not nearly the same value since he asks for different things from his bigs.

It's why Ayton is still at the top of my Kings board. He's underwhelming on defense given his physical skills but his offensive versatility (passing, shooting) along with his post scoring and rebounding make him a good fit for what Joerger runs.
He's been better on defense of late. Particularly in his last game, I thought he was pretty good. I currently have him at number two right behind Doncic, but I could see the Kings or another team taking him at number one. I still feel our biggest need is at the SF position, so thats why I have Doncic at the top of my list. But I certainly wouldn't cry if we took Ayton. By the way, I agree with you on Bamba.

I'm a big fan of Capela's. He's figured out how to impact the game with his skill set, and that's half the battle for most young players. I think the Hawks are hoping Collins develops into a similar player. Bell plays that role on the Warriors, so there is a place in the league for defending, shot blocking, rim runners. A couple of guys in the draft that would fit that description are Robert Williams, and Daniel Gafford.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
We’re not drafting Bamba. He’s at least three years away, and Joerger/Vlade have at most two years to show a turnaround. If we are in the Bamba pick range then we will grab one of the Bridges.
Well I don't have a crystal ball, and I'm not capable of a Vulcan mind meld, but I suspect that your right. At least that's what I would do. After ending the Papagiannis development project, I doubt that Vlade and company are looking for another project, which to some extent Bamba would be. And by no means am I comparing the talent level of the two players. Bamba would come in with far better tools than Papagiannis did. My hope is that we don't have to make that choice, and that were picking in the top 4 or 5.

However, I think some might have a tough time choosing between the two Bridges. I wouldn't, but I can understand why some would. Of the two, Miles more of a highlight reel, and therefore gets more press. And I don't want to demean him. I think he's a very talented player. My frustration with him comes from some of the bonehead decisions he makes from time to time on the court. However, there's something to be said for a player that's willing to take the big shot. Whose not afraid to make a mistake.

Then you have Mikal. The consummate team player. Probably the best defensive player in the draft who quietly goes about his business. He lets the game come to him and at the end of the game, he's sitting there with 20 pts, 5 or 6 boards, and a couple of steals, and you don't remember him doing all that. To be honest, I don't think you can go wrong with either player. Miles is also a good defender, so its not like he's a liability in that area. And to be clear, Mikal won't shy away from taking the game winning shot. The difference is, he'll pass it up if he see's a teammate with a better shot. Not sure Miles will do that.

Who would be my choice between the two. Well I'm a huge Mikal fan, and that's who I could take. But I wouldn't cry over taking Miles and would certainly understand the attraction. Miles has a star persona that Mikal doesn't have. Think Charles Barkley verses Kawhi Leonard.
 
Sure, if you take him at, say, #25 or lower instead of at #5 or higher he might make sense. He's got a long ways to go on offense, and today's NBA doesn't put nearly the value on a defensive purest at center as they used to. To my mind, you could make a case that in the 3 point shooting-no-hand check-NBA of today that a guy like Bamba easily loses ten slots in the draft compared to twenty years ago. It could be twenty or twenty-five slots. You've got to ask yourself: How much value does a no-offense defensive shot blocker have in an NBA in which on a regular basis players turn down two point shots to give open three point shots for their team mates? Bamba isn't going to be blocking 3 point shots; he's going to be blocking the diminished and less valuable two point shots.
That seems to be painting two pointers with a broad brush. Not all two point shots are created equal, and rim protectors aren't out there just guarding the midrange shots that teams are passing up on now. They're meeting guys taking shots at the rim, which is right up there with the corner three in terms of efficiency per shot.

Look at the league-leading Rockets, they have a guy who profiles similarly in Capela manning the paint. The Jazz and the Clippers both lost their best players but still remain relevant thanks in part to retaining their rim protectors in Gobert and Jordan. Would I take Bamba in the top five? No, I would not. But suggesting he's better valued at 25 seems like an overraction to a trend in play that I'm not sure exists quite the way you've characterized it.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
That seems to be painting two pointers with a broad brush. Not all two point shots are created equal, and rim protectors aren't out there just guarding the midrange shots that teams are passing up on now. They're meeting guys taking shots at the rim, which is right up there with the corner three in terms of efficiency per shot.

Look at the league-leading Rockets, they have a guy who profiles similarly in Capela manning the paint. The Jazz and the Clippers both lost their best players but still remain relevant thanks in part to retaining their rim protectors in Gobert and Jordan. Would I take Bamba in the top five? No, I would not. But suggesting he's better valued at 25 seems like an overraction to a trend in play that I'm not sure exists quite the way you've characterized it.
We can all disagree about the degree to which Bamba should be devalued in today's 3 point league as compared to the 2 point league of years gone by. But the dynamic is still there: his value isn't as much as it would have been twenty years ago. It's a different time and a different game. In any case, when it comes to the Kings' draft position, which looks like a top 5 slot, I think everyone should agree that Bamba should not be on their board.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
The reason I have Bamba out of my top five is because of the time it will take to reap the benefits with him. Bamba may have more long term potential than, lets say Mikal Bridges, but Bridges is far more ready to step in and contribute right now, and I think the Kings are looking for players that can contribute sooner rather then later. Vlade game himself a short window for success, and the last thing he wants, is to repeat the 76ër scenario, where he does all the dirty work, and someone else comes in and reaps the benefits.

Who knows, five years from now, Bamba could be one of the best players out of this draft. I doubt it, but it's possible. It's the five years thing that's the problem. That's an eternity in GM years. I hope our choice doesn't come down to that.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
De'Anthony Melton is officially out at USC and in the draft this year:


So ends the college career of one of my all-time favorite Trojans. It's a shame it came to an end this way. I was predicting big things for him this season but he was never allowed on the court. His stats from last season don't jump off the page at you but he's a really good defensive player and he would have had more opportunities as a leading balhandler if SC didn't already have Jordan McLaughlin. The only real concern I have is the three point jumper. He'll have to show teams he's improved over the last year when it comes time for the combine and individual workouts. Right now his range is probably the mid 20s to the end of the second round depending on how workouts go.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
We can all disagree about the degree to which Bamba should be devalued in today's 3 point league as compared to the 2 point league of years gone by. But the dynamic is still there: his value isn't as much as it would have been twenty years ago. It's a different time and a different game. In any case, when it comes to the Kings' draft position, which looks like a top 5 slot, I think everyone should agree that Bamba should not be on their board.
I don't agree with that. He's not in the top 3 right now (Jackson is making a strong case at solidifying his top 3 standing with Ayton and Doncic) but I also think his offensive shortcomings have been exaggerated. This guy can basically reach up and put the ball in the basket without jumping and he's not slow or uncoordinated. I have a hard time believing that the league has permanently changed to the extent that the only shots that count anymore are the ones taken 23 feet from the basket. A dunk is still the highest percentage shot on the floor.

Speaking of shooting.. he also shot 41% from three point range over 9 games in January. Part of the reason bigs couldn't shoot in the past is that they would get chewed out by coaches for even attempting to shoot threes. Now that they're practicing them and being encouraged to take them in games, we're seeing all sorts of players who "can't shoot" prove the binary axiom wrong. Case in point: DeMarcus Cousins went 1 for 6 from three in his college career. He made 104 of them this season at 35% before going down with the injury. At 13 for 47 (so far) Bamba is comparatively prolific! The skill is there, it can be developed.

And while people are drooling over Jaren Jackson's 15.1% block percentage (with good reason!) -- Bamba's 13.7% mark is pretty darn good too. Bamba is also averaging more blocks per game and less fouls. This is a rather simplistic view of the overall picture and I'm not trying to downplay Jackson's defensive impact which is felt all over the floor. I would take Jackson over Bamba and not look back. But if we're at #5 and Ayton, Doncic, and Jackson are all gone there's a case to be made for Bamba over Bagley, Porter, or Young. Our team defense is dreadful and so is our rebounding. Bamba addresses both of those issues -- he's also got the best defensive rebounding % of any of the top prospects. To not even include him in the conversation is crazy to me.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I don't agree with that. He's not in the top 3 right now (Jackson is making a strong case at solidifying his top 3 standing with Ayton and Doncic) but I also think his offensive shortcomings have been exaggerated. This guy can basically reach up and put the ball in the basket without jumping and he's not slow or uncoordinated. I have a hard time believing that the league has permanently changed to the extent that the only shots that count anymore are the ones taken 23 feet from the basket. A dunk is still the highest percentage shot on the floor.

Speaking of shooting.. he also shot 41% from three point range over 9 games in January. Part of the reason bigs couldn't shoot in the past is that they would get chewed out by coaches for even attempting to shoot threes. Now that they're practicing them and being encouraged to take them in games, we're seeing all sorts of players who "can't shoot" prove the binary axiom wrong. Case in point: DeMarcus Cousins went 1 for 6 from three in his college career. He made 104 of them this season at 35% before going down with the injury. At 13 for 47 (so far) Bamba is comparatively prolific! The skill is there, it can be developed.

And while people are drooling over Jaren Jackson's 15.1% block percentage (with good reason!) -- Bamba's 13.7% mark is pretty darn good too. Bamba is also averaging more blocks per game and less fouls. This is a rather simplistic view of the overall picture and I'm not trying to downplay Jackson's defensive impact which is felt all over the floor. I would take Jackson over Bamba and not look back. But if we're at #5 and Ayton, Doncic, and Jackson are all gone there's a case to be made for Bamba over Bagley, Porter, or Young. Our team defense is dreadful and so is our rebounding. Bamba addresses both of those issues -- he's also got the best defensive rebounding % of any of the top prospects. To not even include him in the conversation is crazy to me.
I don't think anyone, Kingster possibly not included, is saying that Bamba is not worthy of being considered as a prospect for the Kings. I like Bamba, and three or four years from now, he might be one of the best to come out of this draft. But personally, I have him going 6th or 7th in the draft. That doesn't mean he will. If a team in the top five is hungry for a shot blocking center, and is willing to be patient on the offensive side, I can see him going somewhere in the top five.

I agree that a case could be made for taking him over Young or Porter. Young because of his recent showings and his size, and Porter because of the questions attached to his health. But not Bagley. I would agree that Bagley needs to put more effort into his defense, but I think a lot of Bagley's abilities are being hidden by Duke's offensive scheme. They have Bagley primarily in the post, where in highschool he played a lot away from the basket. You only see a glimpse of that at Duke.

Bamba's offensive game has gotten better during the course of the season, but lets remember that many times he's playing against players that are smaller than him. His post game won't come close to flying in the NBA, and he'll have to adjust to the speed of the NBA. He has some bad habits, that I won't bore you with right now. All correctable of course, but that's what makes him a bit of a project. In the short term, he can block shots and rebound. What he won't be able to do though, is plant himself under the basket. They have that silly 3 second rule, and a bunch of big guys that will make him come out to guard them at the three point line.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
There's no way I pick Bamba if I'm the Kings and have a top 5 pick. And I will be terribly disappointed and surprised (No way do I think Divac considers him in the top 5) if the Kings should pick him. If you pick Bamba in the top 5 you are essentially picking a very, very long term project that might never even be built when it comes to offense. He's like one of these bridges that takes 12 years to get a permit before you can rehab it. This guy has a hard time getting himself together underneath the basket before putting the ball up for a layup or a slam when he's in traffic; he'll take that one dribble to get his balance and check all his parts before he puts up the shot. Nope. See you in the G League, or more politically incorrectly, the D League, for Bamba. And by the way, I saw just yesterday ESPN had him as #3 on their projected??? What the...!?
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
There's no way I pick Bamba if I'm the Kings and have a top 5 pick. And I will be terribly disappointed and surprised (No way do I think Divac considers him in the top 5) if the Kings should pick him. If you pick Bamba in the top 5 you are essentially picking a very, very long term project that might never even be built when it comes to offense. He's like one of these bridges that takes 12 years to get a permit before you can rehab it. This guy has a hard time getting himself together underneath the basket before putting the ball up for a layup or a slam when he's in traffic; he'll take that one dribble to get his balance and check all his parts before he puts up the shot. Nope. See you in the G League, or more politically incorrectly, the D League, for Bamba. And by the way, I saw just yesterday ESPN had him as #3 on their projected??? What the...!?
The thing is... I've heard this story before. About Andre Drummond. About Myles Turner. Not to mention guys who were far off the radar like Rudy Gobert and Nikola Jokic. Huge projects, may never reach their potential, can barely run and chew gum at the same time, etc. I'm exaggerating a little. Sometimes it's true but sometimes it's not. The "project" label shouldn't be an automatic disqualifier.

Bamba isn't my favorite prospect in the draft. I agree with bajaden that Bagley is a much safer pick. But I don't like the argument that we can't wait for Bamba to develop. What is the hurry? Maybe Vlade can't afford to wait for him to develop but I would hope that's not the only perspective that matters. If we're talking about the players in the draft who will have the most impact on our worst in the league defense, what's the list? Jackson, Bridges, Williams ... Bamba has to be way up there right? Maybe there are better options but a lot still has to happen before draft day. Workouts, interviews, combine. Once the focus is on measurables, potential, personality, fit... don't be surprised if Bamba sneaks higher up the list.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
The thing is... I've heard this story before. About Andre Drummond. About Myles Turner. Not to mention guys who were far off the radar like Rudy Gobert and Nikola Jokic. Huge projects, may never reach their potential, can barely run and chew gum at the same time, etc. I'm exaggerating a little. Sometimes it's true but sometimes it's not. The "project" label shouldn't be an automatic disqualifier.

Bamba isn't my favorite prospect in the draft. I agree with bajaden that Bagley is a much safer pick. But I don't like the argument that we can't wait for Bamba to develop. What is the hurry? Maybe Vlade can't afford to wait for him to develop but I would hope that's not the only perspective that matters. If we're talking about the players in the draft who will have the most impact on our worst in the league defense, what's the list? Jackson, Bridges, Williams ... Bamba has to be way up there right? Maybe there are better options but a lot still has to happen before draft day. Workouts, interviews, combine. Once the focus is on measurables, potential, personality, fit... don't be surprised if Bamba sneaks higher up the list.
"Hurry" is all in the eye of the beholder. If you're 20 years old, you probably have a different view than if your 80 years old. Divac is going to want to have a player that doesn't take five years before you can give him the ball in the low post. Otherwise, he can go early on vaca to Serbia. And I highly doubt Vivec would be on board with Bamba either, and yes, I do see Bamba as a good five years before you get a return on your money. Look at WCS. He's not setting the world afire and he's into his 3rd year and he wasn't as much of a project as Bamba, imo.

If you look at Bagley, Ayton, Jackson, they are head and shoulders ahead of Bamba, imo. Even Jackson, who is an offensive project is so much more gifted athletically than Bamba, he's head and shoulders above Bamba, imo because of his quickness, speed, coordination, timing, strength, build, and overall fluidity. Interestingly, on the nba.net mock draft Bamba is now in the 8th position and Bagley goes to the Kings at #4. I'll take that every day and Sunday! Nba.net has it right, ESPN is out of their minds. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bamba at #10 or lower by the time the draft rolls around.

I don't like rumba, I don't like samba, and I don't like Bamba!

http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft
 
I’m with bajaden on Bamba. His true value probably starts at the 6th spot, but I just cannot envision a scenario where we pick him. If we end up in the 6-8 range, then we will take one of Bagley/Porter if they slide, or one of the Bridgeses (probably Mikal). And yes, Bamba’s projected development timeline (more or less 3 years) is probably a year beyond what Vlade/Joerger have to show a turnaround.

Bamba just doesn’t move the needle right now. We need a guy who can hit the ground running (compete for ROTY), be a factor in attracting 2019 free agents, and be an exciting player to energize the casual fan. Those three things probably shouldn’t factor in, but they do.

One last thing for me, I am not a fan of the profile fit of UT players for Sacramento. UT, for a variety of reasons I won’t bore anyone with now, tends to attract pampered, entitled early bloomers across all sports. The kind of player interested in that environment is just not a good fit for our program and city. KD seemed to buck the trend for a bit with OKC, and then reverted to the mean.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
"Hurry" is all in the eye of the beholder. If you're 20 years old, you probably have a different view than if your 80 years old. Divac is going to want to have a player that doesn't take five years before you can give him the ball in the low post. Otherwise, he can go early on vaca to Serbia. And I highly doubt Vivec would be on board with Bamba either, and yes, I do see Bamba as a good five years before you get a return on your money. Look at WCS. He's not setting the world afire and he's into his 3rd year and he wasn't as much of a project as Bamba, imo.

If you look at Bagley, Ayton, Jackson, they are head and shoulders ahead of Bamba, imo. Even Jackson, who is an offensive project is so much more gifted athletically than Bamba, he's head and shoulders above Bamba, imo because of his quickness, speed, coordination, timing, strength, build, and overall fluidity. Interestingly, on the nba.net mock draft Bamba is now in the 8th position and Bagley goes to the Kings at #4. I'll take that every day and Sunday! Nba.net has it right, ESPN is out of their minds. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bamba at #10 or lower by the time the draft rolls around.

I don't like rumba, I don't like samba, and I don't like Bamba!

http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft
Wait, where are you seeing any big man get the ball in the post and go to work anymore? I don't see this as a serious concern. Big guys are almost exclusively working the pick and roll, catching lobs, spotting up for jumpers or cleaning up offensive boards. For as much as people want to talk about low post defense being obsolete I think low post offense is twice as obsolete. And Cauley-Stein not dominating has very little to do with physical ability in my opinion. It's always been mental with him.

The real question to ask is which prospect is most likely to grasp the team defensive scheme and consistently put himself in position to make plays. We tend to freak out about athleticism and physical potential but physical freaks fail in the NBA all the time because they can't process information fast enough. I just don't take these "project" labels very seriously anymore because they're so often wrong. Here's 3 more: Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Giannis Antetokounmpo. Some of the best players in the league were viewed as projects who might never be go-to scorers.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Wait, where are you seeing any big man get the ball in the post and go to work anymore? I don't see this as a serious concern. Big guys are almost exclusively working the pick and roll, catching lobs, spotting up for jumpers or cleaning up offensive boards. For as much as people want to talk about low post defense being obsolete I think low post offense is twice as obsolete. And Cauley-Stein not dominating has very little to do with physical ability in my opinion. It's always been mental with him.

The real question to ask is which prospect is most likely to grasp the team defensive scheme and consistently put himself in position to make plays. We tend to freak out about athleticism and physical potential but physical freaks fail in the NBA all the time because they can't process information fast enough. I just don't take these "project" labels very seriously anymore because they're so often wrong. Here's 3 more: Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Giannis Antetokounmpo. Some of the best players in the league were viewed as projects who might never be go-to scorers.
I don't totally disagree with you. I've used Leonard and George as examples myself as players that you can get later in the draft who turn out to be very good players, in their case, outstanding players. And your right, all three of those players were considered projects at the time, and I'm not disputing that Bamba may in time be one of those players. What I'm disputing is that I don't think the Kings are looking for a project player right now. Vlade said the team would be competitive by the end of next season. He basically put his job on the line. Therefore, I don't think he wants to gamble on a player who may take two to three years to develop.

Hey, I could be wrong. Bamba may step in and be god's gift to basketball. It wouldn't be the first time that a player has surprised me. And if the Kings end up picking 6th or 7th, and they take Bamba, well then, I'm his biggest fan. But he wouldn't be my personal choice at that time. I'd take Mikal Bridges, who I think is going to be much better than some pundits think. And, he happens to play SF, a position of need. Speaking thereof, I have an article about him I'm going to post. Just trying to decide where's the best place to post it.
 
I doubt Bamba becomes "the" guy on the team. In the end is he just going to be a slight upgrade over WCS if most things go right for him?

I'd rather fill the SF spot or PF spot with one of the guys talked about to be drafted near Bamba in the draft, rather than pick a guy who will more than likely not make the Kings a whole lot better since the guy in his spot is about our best player at the moment.

It's not like the other players in the draft who are slotted to be picked near Bamba are huge drop offs in talent. They are all talented guys and they fill a huge need on the roster. I know you don't want to draft a need over talent but in this case I don't think the talent in Bamba is going to transcend the franchise anyway so you might as well get a guy who can take one of the roster spots from bottom of the barrel to possibly above average in time.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
I think we tend to overcomplicate this. Perhaps because 12 years running there's not much else to talk about but building through the draft. Our job is to draft the best player period. I think Fox and Bogdanovic should be considered foundational players so doubling up on those positions makes the future more complicated but we really shouldn't be worrying too much about fit other than that.

And I really hope Vlade can put his own ego aside and just do what's best for the team. A lot of those past draft mistakes simplify down to prioritizing short-term goals over long-term ones. We just lost Brad Miller so Spencers Hawes. We need a shooter so Jimmer. Stauskas. Thomas Robinson looks NBA ready, maybe we can trade him by the end of year for something (sigh). We need defense so Cauley-Stein. It's so predictable and so unfortunate.

We need to set aside all notions of 3 or 5 year windows, ignore what this year's team was weak at, ignore who the fans want (yes I said it) and just look for the one guy left who is most likely to be a transformative player. We might already have our big man in Giles. Or maybe he can play next to a more traditional blocks and boards center. Or maybe we want a PF who can shoot and Giles is the one big guy. Maybe Hezonja is our SF of the future. Maybe Bogie is. There's so many different ways this could go just forget about positions and look at skills, instincts, work ethic, attitude. Name recognition and college accolades are fun but they don't anyways equate to NBA stardom. We need to cast a wider net. Mikal Bridges and Mo Bamba and Miles Bridges and Wendell Carter and Trae Young and Robert Williams and 20 other guys. The consensus is rarely 100% correct. Is there a Draymond Green in this draft? Is there an Isaiah Thomas?

I tend to lean more defense (as anyone who's been around this board probably already know) so that's why I'm not so willing to dismiss Bamba. I think you can start a team with a defensive anchor and build from there. It's one way to go, not the only way to go. But it's too early to start eliminating names for me. This is still the information gathering stage.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Wait, where are you seeing any big man get the ball in the post and go to work anymore? I don't see this as a serious concern. Big guys are almost exclusively working the pick and roll, catching lobs, spotting up for jumpers or cleaning up offensive boards. For as much as people want to talk about low post defense being obsolete I think low post offense is twice as obsolete. And Cauley-Stein not dominating has very little to do with physical ability in my opinion. It's always been mental with him.

The real question to ask is which prospect is most likely to grasp the team defensive scheme and consistently put himself in position to make plays. We tend to freak out about athleticism and physical potential but physical freaks fail in the NBA all the time because they can't process information fast enough. I just don't take these "project" labels very seriously anymore because they're so often wrong. Here's 3 more: Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Giannis Antetokounmpo. Some of the best players in the league were viewed as projects who might never be go-to scorers.
Big men have to do it all in this day and age, including score in the post. If he doesn't score in the post the opposition defends him with a 3 pt. shooting SF and you're done; the 3 pt shooting SF takes him to the 3 point line where he's not nearly as good of a defender and now the reason for getting him in the first place, shot blocking, goes down the tubes. The real question to ask is: Can the guy play? That means, can he play offense as well as defense. Answer for Bamba: NO. He can't play offense. He's no threat whatsoever. Heck, the guy isn't a threat in college. To my mind, he doesn't even have the coordination and quickness to become good offensively. And I don't see why you're enamored with Bamba's ability to process information; I've seen nothing that indicates he's an above average BBIQ player. I feel pretty confident that Bamba isn't a Leonard, George, or the Greek Freak. Note how all those guys were lower #1s. There's a reason for that. There's a lot of projects that never make it in the league and I'm sure there's a LOT more of them than the guys you mentioned.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Big men have to do it all in this day and age, including score in the post. If he doesn't score in the post the opposition defends him with a 3 pt. shooting SF and you're done; the 3 pt shooting SF takes him to the 3 point line where he's not nearly as good of a defender and now the reason for getting him in the first place, shot blocking, goes down the tubes. The real question to ask is: Can the guy play? That means, can he play offense as well as defense. Answer for Bamba: NO. He can't play offense. He's no threat whatsoever. Heck, the guy isn't a threat in college. To my mind, he doesn't even have the coordination and quickness to become good offensively. And I don't see why you're enamored with Bamba's ability to process information; I've seen nothing that indicates he's an above average BBIQ player. I feel pretty confident that Bamba isn't a Leonard, George, or the Greek Freak. Note how all those guys were lower #1s. There's a reason for that. There's a lot of projects that never make it in the league and I'm sure there's a LOT more of them than the guys you mentioned.
Right, the 19 year old college freshman with back to back games of 24 and 25 points has no offensive game whatsoever. Just put a SF on the center with a 9'6" standing reach and he's helpless in the vicinity of the basket. You're the outlier here who thinks he's a terrible prospect. Almost everyone else thinks he's clearly in the top 10 at least. That alone doesn't indicate anything but it's not so much that I'm enamoured by him as I can't understand why you think he's an uncoordinated stiff. I don't even know what you're watching at this point because the player you're describing is not Bamba.
 
Anyone have an opinion of Carsen Edwards of Purdue? Dropped 40 the other night. First time I've watched him, looks like an elite athlete, kind of like a bigger, more athletic version of Frank Mason. Undersized for SG and questionable PG skills. Looks very talented to me though, is he likely to enter this year? I'd use a 2nd rounder on him.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Right, the 19 year old college freshman with back to back games of 24 and 25 points has no offensive game whatsoever. Just put a SF on the center with a 9'6" standing reach and he's helpless in the vicinity of the basket. You're the outlier here who thinks he's a terrible prospect. Almost everyone else thinks he's clearly in the top 10 at least. That alone doesn't indicate anything but it's not so much that I'm enamoured by him as I can't understand why you think he's an uncoordinated stiff. I don't even know what you're watching at this point because the player you're describing is not Bamba.
I don't mind being an outlier at all. Length is one thing, strength, coordination, and agility around the basket, are other things that are nearly as important. Bamba is deficient in the latter characteristics. I'd feel very comfortable as a competing coach to "go small" with Bamba in there. I'd love for him to take 20 two-point attempts while my team is taking the 3s.
 
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