Cousins max deal or trade?

#91
I don't think you can make the assumption that Cousins will never be a good defensvive player. I certainly agree that he'll never be a prolific shotblocker, but I do think he can be a good man defender. He's only 22 years old, and he's had to suffer through two head coaches that never got his attention. I won't go into why! But I do think we can safely assume that Noah, who I love, will never be a great offensive player. In short, what you see with Noah, is what your going to get. What you see with Cousins, is just the tip of the iceberg.

Cousins has greatness in him. Whether he'll ever acheive that greatness is up to him, but its there. Not many players have that. Most that do, usually become stars, and some superstars. There are some that disappoint, like Derrick Coleman (suffered from the Syacuse curse) that was a very good player, but could have been a HOF player. In short, I would never trade Cousins for Noah. And believe me, I'd love to have Noah and put him along side Cousins.
Again, I love Cousins as a basketball player and I would like nothing more then for him too reach that greatness. I agree with you, He does have potential too be a disrupter on defense.. but not the main Anchor type like Noah... Which is a rare type too have.... add on all the other intagibles Noah brings that dosent show up on the statsheet and hes an extra rare type of talent...IMO hes more valuable then people give him credit for. I still standby my statement that i would "consider" noah for DMC. But dont get me wrong I realize DMC's potential greatness.

I hope DMC watched the Spurs these playoffs and how they handled themselves emotionally on the court. Im not sure if I can take a decade of whining and pouting after every single call from DMC.. its really a buzzkill when watching a game. And just makes our team look like pansies. Especially when it comes from your team leader.
 
#92
There is no doubt that Cousins has amazing talent and superstar potential, but I'm surprised at the lack of concern that I've been reading on here.

As for talent I get it. On offense he is probably the best mid-range shooter on the team, which is even more impressive for a big man. He also has great handles for a big man and can take just about any defender on the dribble. Some people even tend to forget about his passing ability and court vision that he has if he chooses to be a team player and pass the ball he average 5 assists a game. For rebounding it's even better, I really think he could lead the league in every rebounding category. I do believe when it comes to stats he can average 25 points, 15 rebounds, and 5 assists a game. Bottom line I do see the potential.

Now on to the concern. Defense is a complete mess right now. He may average 25 points a game, but give up 30 because of his lack of effort. He either doesn't run down the court or gets there late about 20% of the time, that's no exaggeration. Even when he gets there his effort and basketball IQ for team defense is extremely low, he really is a major liability. Now when he plays against Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum he normally does a much better job because he tries, he has something to prove, but what about every other team in the league?

An even more important issue is his effect on team morale. There is another thread here that talks about team chemistry and I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that right now Cousins is having a major role in destroying it. It's true that players don't have to like each other or be friends to be successful, but you can't have players that don't want to play together and there are many indications that there are guys that don't want to play with Cousins.

So the bottom line here is it possible for effort and personality to improve? Even if the defense doesn't the team can still probably win with enough talent, but if the personality doesn't then this team will never win and at this stage he has shown no improvement in this area, in fact we can say that it has gotten worse. Can we really risk giving this guy a max contract right now? I know a lot of you are saying that we can't risk a player with his ability leaving, but I say can we risk having him stay when the effects are equally as important in the opposite direction?

At this point regardless of what kind of games his agent is playing or how a contract situation might affect the team this year, I think we have to wait this one out and see what happens with the new regime.
 
#93
Now on to the concern. Defense is a complete mess right now. He may average 25 points a game, but give up 30 because of his lack of effort. He either doesn't run down the court or gets there late about 20% of the time, that's no exaggeration. Even when he gets there his effort and basketball IQ for team defense is extremely low, he really is a major liability. Now when he plays against Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum he normally does a much better job because he tries, he has something to prove, but what about every other team in the league?
Hate to break it to you, but most defensive centers are slow down the court. Cuz can jog and beat Hibbert down the court.

And people also forget centers normally have to run basket to basket, not wing to wing or top of the key to top of the key like wings and guards.
 
#94
I understand that many people here don't like what Demarcus brings to the table on defense, and rightly so. He is honestly a bad defender. But he is also a 22 year old, who has terrible coaching as well. He also practically averaged a double-double last season too. Now back to the defensive part of his game. Do you think his defense will improve with coaching from Mike Malone, defensive specialist who seems like he will insert defense as thee number one priority on this team? I certainly hope so. Even if Demarcus' individual defense doesn't improve that much, he could help the team overall on defense (with things like more effort, getting back on time, etc. all thing Malone will certainly fix if he's serious about making the Kings a good defensive team). Demarcus just needs to improve his attitude (which can happen with a new front office, owners, positive news around here now) and I think that in turn can help play in a role on his defensive efforts.
 
#95
I understand that many people here don't like what Demarcus brings to the table on defense, and rightly so. He is honestly a bad defender. But he is also a 22 year old, who has terrible coaching as well. He also practically averaged a double-double last season too. Now back to the defensive part of his game. Do you think his defense will improve with coaching from Mike Malone, defensive specialist who seems like he will insert defense as thee number one priority on this team? I certainly hope so. Even if Demarcus' individual defense doesn't improve that much, he could help the team overall on defense (with things like more effort, getting back on time, etc. all thing Malone will certainly fix if he's serious about making the Kings a good defensive team). Demarcus just needs to improve his attitude (which can happen with a new front office, owners, positive news around here now) and I think that in turn can help play in a role on his defensive efforts.
Cousins has shown that he can be a good post defender, but has struggled in most other areas (except steals - good at anticipating passes in the paint). His game is best suited to play team defense which is something that takes the whole team working together. This is something the Kings haven't done as a whole during Cousins entire time here. It is difficult as a big man (PF or center) to make a proper show on the P&R, cut off the lane, or give help when you know that no one will cover your man behind you. If a perimeter player leaves his man it usually means he gets a wide open shot (if no one rotates), which may or may not go in. If a big man leaves his man to help (and no one rotates), it usually means a layup or dunk. This is why I expect Malone to not just instill a good team defense next season, but hold everyone accountable when they miss assignments (which is not always the player whose man scored).

Now I don't every expect to see Cousins making the all-defensive teams, but do think he can be a solid team defensive player on a team that is consistently working together on that front.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#96
1) if the Bulls call me and say that they would like to do a sign and trade - Noah for DFC - I would probably do it. If I call them with the same offer tonight - I doubt that they would bite. This says something.
You would be completely crazy if you did so.

If you have a young player who may be a star, you do NOT trade him for an older player who is not a star. I would just say full stop, except for the very rare situation where you might be a contending team one piece from a title. But such a team has a spare star kid sitting around virtually never. Anyone else, it would be insanity. I like Noah. After I get my stars the first sort of player I look up is a guy like Noah. Until I get my stars he's as pointless as Varejao is in Cleveland.

You don't get many chances at franchise level stars in the NBA. Especially as a small market team. You blow them at your own tremendous risk. you blow them to get Yannick Noah's kid just never.
 
#97
You would be completely crazy if you did so.

If you have a young player who may be a star, you do NOT trade him for an older player who is not a star. I would just say full stop, except for the very rare situation where you might be a contending team one piece from a title. But such a team has a spare star kid sitting around virtually never. Anyone else, it would be insanity. I like Noah. After I get my stars the first sort of player I look up is a guy like Noah. Until I get my stars he's as pointless as Varejao is in Cleveland.

You don't get many chances at franchise level stars in the NBA. Especially as a small market team. You blow them at your own tremendous risk. you blow them to get Yannick Noah's kid just never.
You put it perfectly.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#98
You would be completely crazy if you did so.
If you have a young player who may be a star, you do NOT trade him for an older player who is not a star. I would just say full stop, except for the very rare situation where you might be a contending team one piece from a title. But such a team has a spare star kid sitting around virtually never. Anyone else, it would be insanity. I like Noah. After I get my stars the first sort of player I look up is a guy like Noah. Until I get my stars he's as pointless as Varejao is in Cleveland.

You don't get many chances at franchise level stars in the NBA. Especially as a small market team. You blow them at your own tremendous risk. you blow them to get Yannick Noah's kid just never.
Then I'm a craaaaaaaaaaazzzzzy man. Call the men in the white suits. Call me Jesus. Call me God. And why is it that the sky is neon green today...............//////////////???????????.....................................
 
#99
As usual - strong re-buttal.

2 things in response:

1) if the Bulls call me and say that they would like to do a sign and trade - Noah for DFC - I would probably do it. If I call them with the same offer tonight - I doubt that they would bite. This says something.

2) DFC's career could go the Al Jefferson route: drafted young with high hopes. Solid career, but never really lived-up to the hope to date. I emphasize the word "could" here.
The Bulls won't trade Noah because they have him. However, any team that doesn't have a studly big man would sing DMC for $14M/year in a heartbeat. His extension isn't about who we could trade him for, it's about what his market worth is. And ANY team out there that has the cap space would pay $14M for him. This should include us - ASAP. No need to dick around with this. You extend DMC as soon as it is possible, and you match Tyreke as soon as he signs the dotted line. Your rebuild starts from there. You will not find two better young men at their positions available for market value in the FA market.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Hate to break it to you, but most defensive centers are slow down the court. Cuz can jog and beat Hibbert down the court.

And people also forget centers normally have to run basket to basket, not wing to wing or top of the key to top of the key like wings and guards.
At one of the summer league games a couple of years ago, Uncia03 and I sat in the stands and talked to JT's father and mother, who happened to be sitting right next to us. JT's father said that the average person has no idea the amount of energy a center or a PF has to put out during a game compared to a guard. He said the big man has to battle for position on the offensive end with another big man that weighs 270 to 280 pounds. He's out there pushing you, elbowing you, stepping on your feet and leaning on you. And, after all that battling, your many times ignored by the little 6 foot, 180 pound PG, who has to do nothing but run around the perimeter deciding who should shoot the ball instead of himself.

Then the big man has to run to the other end of the floor and do the same thing in reverse. Again and again. And when the little guard out there isn't able to stay in front of his man, or fight through a screen, its suddenly the big mans job to stop the ball, and if he doesn't, he gets the blame, not the little guard that got beat. Well, the little guard is cuter than the big man. How many times in an NBA game do you see a center run down the floor, and just as he gets to the other end, someone on his team stops and pops, 6 or 7 seconds into the shot clock, and he's suddenly running back the other way?

Its easy to criticize big men! But its a lot easier to drag 180 to 200 pounds of body weight up and down the floor than it is to drag 270/280 pounds of body weight. Now lets say your a very intelligent 270 pound player. You believe in your coach. Your coach calls a play, and you do your part, but one of your teammates doesn't. So the play becomes one on one. And it happens over and over again, and you look to your coach, and he does nothing. Being intelligent is both a blessing and a curse. Ignorance can be blind. And if your blind, then you don't know things you should know. But if your intelligent, you know whats wrong, and when your leader the coach doesn't fix the problem, you get frustrated. You no longer see the light at the end of the tunnel, and some point, you give up.

Now I'm not saying thats the right thing to do. But I've been around the block a few times. But when I was 22 years old, I was an emotional wreck, and I reacted to everything emotionally. Oh, I knew I had screwed up after the fact, but the horse was already out of the barn by that time, and your can't put it back. If Tim Duncan comes out and is critical of a teammate, or Kobe is critical of a teammate, we all say thats leadership. Jordan did it all the time. But if Cousins does it, he's just an emotional kid that has no control. He needs to shut up and sit there and be a good boy. He's held to a double standard. You can say he brought it on himself, but believe me, he had some help!

Its amazing to me that Cousins is loved in Kentucky. He was coached by one of the most demanding coaches in college, and he got along just fine. You want to know why, because Calapari held everyone on his team accountable. You played his way, or you didn't play. If someone broke a play, Calapari called a timeout within seconds, and that player was on the bench. And not at the end of the bench, but on the bench right next to Calapari where he could take big bites out of your butt. And that included Cousins, who spent more than a few moments on the bench next to Calapari. But Calapari didn't send you to the lockerroom, or to the end of the bench for long period of the game. He'd put you right back in the game and give you a chance to redeem yourself.

Calapari said in an interview, that Cousins was the smartest player on his team. He never had to explain anything twice to him. Cousins respected Calapari because, number one, the team won, and number two, Calapari was consistent. Anyone that screwed up, knew where the hot seat was, and expected it. Now none of this is an excuse for Cousins behavior, but its an insight to how he thinks, and why he thinks what he thinks. You can't change anyone's behavior by hitting them over the head with a baseball bat. You change it by first understanding how they think, and then by convincing them that there's a better way. Cousins needs to understand where his area of responsibility begins and ends. And to take care of that area, and let everyone else take care of their own, and if they can't, then know that management will!

I believe that right now, Cousins has the wagons circled. He doen's think its safe to come out from behind those wagons because everytime he trusts someone, he gets stabbed in the back. Or at least thats his perception. And its his perception that were dealing with, which may not be the total reality of the situation. I believe that if Malone is everything he's touted to be, the whole situation will change. That doesn't mean there won't be an incident here and there, but they'll be minor by comparison. A disagreement between a coach and a player doesn't have to be a national news story. Cousins and Calapari had disagreements many times. But Calapari won those battles, and Cousins respects him to this day. And viceversa!

Never forget that players are human beings. Their all different. They don't come from a cookie cutter factory. You can have the same rules for all of them, but you can't react to every player the same way if they break one of the rules. Some you have to hit over the head, and others, you have to put your arm around their shoulder, and explain. And let them know, you have their best interest at heart. That your on their side. In Cousins case, he has to have trust in you. If you have his back, he'll have yours. If you throw him to the wolves publicly, then you'll lose him.
 
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Glenn

Hall of Famer
Wow, Dr. Baja! "Players are human beings. Their (sic) different." The good coaches know that and know how to handle this. Tyreke will do what he is told and you won't hear a peep. I even wonder if he understood how coaches were inhibiting the progression of his career. Cuz on the other hand wants to understand the "why" of what he is told to do. He sad Calapari answered all his questions. I suspect that guys like wstphal and Smart didn't have good answers because they weren't sure of what they were doing. The Westphal/Cousins blowup occurred when Cousins went into Westphal's office to ask him a question and Westy said he didn't have time to talk or something of that nature. Cousins exploded with the now hugely distorted comment "then why don't you trade me?" Tyreke is a coach's dream and Cousins could become a coach. He wants to understand why he is asked to do something and I suspect in the answer he wants to know what a few other key players are doing and what their options are. In the end, that kind of inquisitiveness will pay off big time for us all.

As to the amount of energy used by the big guys, I was gifted with some front row seats under the basket and could watch the big guys and dang near get their sweat on my body. It's violent in a controlled kind of way. Noel is going to have a problem. When Jabbar played he seldom hustled down the court. I remember an announcer saying he was just preserving his energy. No one complained. I wonder how Cuz can hustle up and down the court especially in the Smart time allocation mode of 12 minutes at time. It must be exhausting. Not being a basketball player, I have wondered how a player could give his all for 12 minutes stretches. I suspect the answer is "he can't." It's not a matter of conditioning because at a certain point a player cannot last 12 minutes and have any energy for a big play.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
There is no doubt that Cousins has amazing talent and superstar potential, but I'm surprised at the lack of concern that I've been reading on here.

As for talent I get it. On offense he is probably the best mid-range shooter on the team, which is even more impressive for a big man. He also has great handles for a big man and can take just about any defender on the dribble. Some people even tend to forget about his passing ability and court vision that he has if he chooses to be a team player and pass the ball he average 5 assists a game. For rebounding it's even better, I really think he could lead the league in every rebounding category. I do believe when it comes to stats he can average 25 points, 15 rebounds, and 5 assists a game. Bottom line I do see the potential.

Now on to the concern. Defense is a complete mess right now. He may average 25 points a game, but give up 30 because of his lack of effort. He either doesn't run down the court or gets there late about 20% of the time, that's no exaggeration. Even when he gets there his effort and basketball IQ for team defense is extremely low, he really is a major liability. Now when he plays against Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum he normally does a much better job because he tries, he has something to prove, but what about every other team in the league?

An even more important issue is his effect on team morale. There is another thread here that talks about team chemistry and I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that right now Cousins is having a major role in destroying it. It's true that players don't have to like each other or be friends to be successful, but you can't have players that don't want to play together and there are many indications that there are guys that don't want to play with Cousins.

So the bottom line here is it possible for effort and personality to improve? Even if the defense doesn't the team can still probably win with enough talent, but if the personality doesn't then this team will never win and at this stage he has shown no improvement in this area, in fact we can say that it has gotten worse. Can we really risk giving this guy a max contract right now? I know a lot of you are saying that we can't risk a player with his ability leaving, but I say can we risk having him stay when the effects are equally as important in the opposite direction?

At this point regardless of what kind of games his agent is playing or how a contract situation might affect the team this year, I think we have to wait this one out and see what happens with the new regime.
For a minute there I didn't know if you were talking about a young Kobe Bryant or a young DeMarcus Cousins. The parallels you inadvertently drew were scary...
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
If this team was littered with quality players, I'd be worried about "them not wanting to play with Cousins." Given the construct of the roster, it doesn't bother me one bit if they're unhappy having him on the team. You're talking about a roster full of chuckers being angry with the big guy. Many of the players might not be here in about 2 years, given the call to actually assemble a roster of parts that fit. Ill fitting pieces are ill fitting pieces. Whether it's ability or work ethic, or whatever, if they can't live up to high standards, or can't see that success is the prime goal, then they need to be moved.
If anyone wants to willingly go, I'll be the first to open the door.

The way I see it, there are about 2, maybe 3, other players I'd really hope the team keeps. (Evans - obvious, JT - good fit [role player/work ethic], Third...not sure) Those are the players I want to make sure that they are on the same page with Cousins, and I'm pretty sure they are, because they recognize talent. They know he's immature, but they also know that they need Cousins in order for this franchise to take the next step.
 
If this team was littered with quality players, I'd be worried about "them not wanting to play with Cousins." Given the construct of the roster, it doesn't bother me one bit if they're unhappy having him on the team. You're talking about a roster full of chuckers being angry with the big guy. Many of the players might not be here in about 2 years, given the call to actually assemble a roster of parts that fit. Ill fitting pieces are ill fitting pieces. Whether it's ability or work ethic, or whatever, if they can't live up to high standards, or can't see that success is the prime goal, then they need to be moved.
If anyone wants to willingly go, I'll be the first to open the door.

The way I see it, there are about 2, maybe 3, other players I'd really hope the team keeps. (Evans - obvious, JT - good fit [role player/work ethic], Third...not sure) Those are the players I want to make sure that they are on the same page with Cousins, and I'm pretty sure they are, because they recognize talent. They know he's immature, but they also know that they need Cousins in order for this franchise to take the next step.
I agree with what you're saying and by no means do I think Cousins is the only guy on the team with an attitude issue, it's just his may be the most toxic. While guys like Thornton, Outlaw, and Salmons (just guys I've heard have had some lockerroom issues) may pout or argue at times, it gets over with and everyone moves on. Cousins throws tantrums, he gets in fights with teammates, he disrespects his coaches, and he makes his teammates uncomfortable because they don't know what he is going to do. Going further with your point, you said that Evans was one of the important players that needs to be on the same page with Cousins and probably is. However if you believe Grant Napier at all Evans has made it clear that he doesn't like playing with Cousins, I don't know if that's true or not, but if so they are definitely not on the same page.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Then I'm a craaaaaaaaaaazzzzzy man. Call the men in the white suits. Call me Jesus. Call me God. And why is it that the sky is neon green today...............//////////////???????????.....................................
I had no idea you were Jesus! Reminds me of the movie the "Ruling Class" with Peter O'Toole. In the movie, for those that haven't seen it, Peter O'Toole thinks he's Jesus, and has the right robes, beard, and long hair to match. At one point in the movie, someone askes him why in the hell he thinks he's Jesus. His response was "I used to pray all the time, and one day I realized I was talking to myself". I guess the message is, make sure your not talking to yourself!
 
... When Jabbar played he seldom hustled down the court. I remember an announcer saying he was just preserving his energy. No one complained.
Well, I don't know about "no one":

Joey: I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.Murdock: The hell I don't! Listen, kid. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
I agree with what you're saying and by no means do I think Cousins is the only guy on the team with an attitude issue, it's just his may be the most toxic. While guys like Thornton, Outlaw, and Salmons (just guys I've heard have had some lockerroom issues) may pout or argue at times, it gets over with and everyone moves on. Cousins throws tantrums, he gets in fights with teammates, he disrespects his coaches, and he makes his teammates uncomfortable because they don't know what he is going to do. Going further with your point, you said that Evans was one of the important players that needs to be on the same page with Cousins and probably is. However if you believe Grant Napier at all Evans has made it clear that he doesn't like playing with Cousins, I don't know if that's true or not, but if so they are definitely not on the same page.
1. I don't believe Napier at all. He generally has an agenda, and at times I've felt that it was Maloof-driven.

2. I generally agree with your premise, but everyone moves on when Thornton, Outlaw, et al, do it because they're not players to get worked up over. Cousins does have the potential to be the cornerstone to this franchise, so yeah, we tend to make a big deal out of it for that reason.

Here's why I think things are going to change. Over the summer we've changed:

Ownership
Coaching
Franchise vision

All in a positive way. I think we're going to see direction, and we're going to see DMC respond positively to this. We have a FO that wants to win, and will do what it takes. We have owners that want the team in Sacramento, and want a shiny new arena. We have a vision for the future, which includes improved scouting, and an idea for what it takes to win. I'm taking coaching on faith right now, but it's probably the best I've felt about a coach here since Adelman.
Based on these factors, my gut tells me that DMC is going to buy into this, as opposed to having to deal with crap from the top down ever since he's been here. I think we'll see a big change in attitude.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
If this team was littered with quality players, I'd be worried about "them not wanting to play with Cousins." Given the construct of the roster, it doesn't bother me one bit if they're unhappy having him on the team. You're talking about a roster full of chuckers being angry with the big guy. Many of the players might not be here in about 2 years, given the call to actually assemble a roster of parts that fit. Ill fitting pieces are ill fitting pieces. Whether it's ability or work ethic, or whatever, if they can't live up to high standards, or can't see that success is the prime goal, then they need to be moved.
If anyone wants to willingly go, I'll be the first to open the door.

The way I see it, there are about 2, maybe 3, other players I'd really hope the team keeps. (Evans - obvious, JT - good fit [role player/work ethic], Third...not sure) Those are the players I want to make sure that they are on the same page with Cousins, and I'm pretty sure they are, because they recognize talent. They know he's immature, but they also know that they need Cousins in order for this franchise to take the next step.
Just to take your point a bit futher, there were, in my opinion 8 players on our team last season, that thought, on any given night, they could put 30 points on the board. They are Evans, Thomas, Fredette, Cousins, Johnson, Salmons, Thornton, and Outlaw. Now of course they all didn't get enough minutes to accomplish that, and of course some were incapable. At least on a nightly basis. The problem is, they played like a player that wanted to put up 30 points. We had a few role players on our team, players like Hayes, Thompson, Patterson, Aldrich, and Douglas. Aldrich and Douglas are in all likelyhood gone. As is Johnson. Where we need to clean house is in the area of the guys that think they're scorers. We need fewer guys with the ball in their hands, and more guys that know what their role is.

I'd like to add, that just because your role is to support your best players, that doesn't mean you can't have the ability to score. It just means you know when thats susposed to be. We need players that embrace the idea of being a role player. If the coach wants you to be the sixth man off the bench, and you don't like coming off the bench, then goodbye! Its time for players that put the team first. If that means helping Cousins, or Tyreke average 30 points a night, then take pride in that. Leave your ego at the door.

When Wilt Chamberlain came to the Lakers, he was one of the top scorers in the NBA, as well as being one of, if not the best rebounder in the NBA. The Lakers in 1972 had a lineup of Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich, and Happy Hairston, among others. They asked Wilt to sacrafice his offense and give them defense in the middle, and rebound. It won them a championship, and although Wilt sacraficed his offense, he still averaged around 24 points a game. My point is, one of the best players of all time was willing to play a role in order to win a championship. So anyone that doesn't want to do that, my question is, do you think your better than Wilt Chamberlain?
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Well, I don't know about "no one":

Joey: I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.Murdock: The hell I don't! Listen, kid. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.
Tell me Joey, do you like to look at magazines with pictures of men in them. Funny movie!
 
As to the amount of energy used by the big guys, I was gifted with some front row seats under the basket and could watch the big guys and dang near get their sweat on my body. It's violent in a controlled kind of way. Noel is going to have a problem. When Jabbar played he seldom hustled down the court. I remember an announcer saying he was just preserving his energy. No one complained. I wonder how Cuz can hustle up and down the court especially in the Smart time allocation mode of 12 minutes at time. It must be exhausting. Not being a basketball player, I have wondered how a player could give his all for 12 minutes stretches. I suspect the answer is "he can't." It's not a matter of conditioning because at a certain point a player cannot last 12 minutes and have any energy for a big play.
This is one of the reasons I give that much more respect to what Wilt Chamberlain was able to do during his career. There was one season when he averaged over 48 minutes a game (missed 4 minutes all season) because of overtime. He averaged around 45.8 minutes a game for his career.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Just to take your point a bit futher, there were, in my opinion 8 players on our team last season, that thought, on any given night, they could put 30 points on the board. They are Evans, Thomas, Fredette, Cousins, Johnson, Salmons, Thornton, and Outlaw. Now of course they all didn't get enough minutes to accomplish that, and of course some were incapable. At least on a nightly basis. The problem is, they played like a player that wanted to put up 30 points. We had a few role players on our team, players like Hayes, Thompson, Patterson, Aldrich, and Douglas. Aldrich and Douglas are in all likelyhood gone. As is Johnson. Where we need to clean house is in the area of the guys that think they're scorers. We need fewer guys with the ball in their hands, and more guys that know what their role is.

I'd like to add, that just because your role is to support your best players, that doesn't mean you can't have the ability to score. It just means you know when thats susposed to be. We need players that embrace the idea of being a role player. If the coach wants you to be the sixth man off the bench, and you don't like coming off the bench, then goodbye! Its time for players that put the team first. If that means helping Cousins, or Tyreke average 30 points a night, then take pride in that. Leave your ego at the door.

When Wilt Chamberlain came to the Lakers, he was one of the top scorers in the NBA, as well as being one of, if not the best rebounder in the NBA. The Lakers in 1972 had a lineup of Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich, and Happy Hairston, among others. They asked Wilt to sacrafice his offense and give them defense in the middle, and rebound. It won them a championship, and although Wilt sacraficed his offense, he still averaged around 24 points a game. My point is, one of the best players of all time was willing to play a role in order to win a championship. So anyone that doesn't want to do that, my question is, do you think your better than Wilt Chamberlain?
Wait, back up a second: are you saying that you think that all of those guys in your first paragraph could go for thirty any given night, or are you just saying that they all thought they could?
 
Until Cousins puts forth 100% every night, he won't get a max deal from any team. No need to sign him this summer. He's a restricted free agent - advantage Kings in 2 years. Wait it out, Cousins hasn't proven he is worth max money. You don't give up on him, but you don't pay him the max when he wasn't played well enough to deserve it. He only plays on one side of the court, offense. He needs to improve his defensive hustle and positioning, clean up his dumb fouls (getting better), and not get himself out of the game with fouls and technicals in the fourth. He took himself out of the game too many times last year due to fouls and mentally. The last game of the year showed what he's capable of, he just needs to be more consistent. I hope he becomes that type of player this year.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
Until Cousins puts forth 100% every night, he won't get a max deal from any team.
As of RIGHT NOW, Cousins would get the max from many teams. Like it or not, that's how the NBA works. He is a highly talented big, and those don't really exist. Trying to tie his money to behavioral conditions, as several fans want to do, just sounds whiny. He's not perfect, but he'll definitely improve, and not extending now will bite the team in the ***.
 
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As of RIGHT NOW, Cousins would get the max from many teams. Like it or not, that's how the NBA works. He is a highly talented big, and those don't really exist. Trying to tie his money to behavioral conditions, as several fans want to do, just sounds whiny. He's not perfect, but he'll definitely improve, and not extending now will bite the team in the ***.
He's a restricted free agent in 2 off seasons so the Kings don't have to do it right now. I don't care about behavioral conditions - I like his edge. I do care about earning your money, staying in the game, and helping your team win games. He doesn't always do that.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
He's a restricted free agent in 2 off seasons so the Kings don't have to do it right now. I don't care about behavioral conditions - I like his edge. I do care about earning your money, staying in the game, and helping your team win games. He doesn't always do that.
He's a restricted free agent next offseason. And with a huge agent you take an enormous, and pointless, risk in playing games here. But this time next season an agent with pull could have DeMarcus's next home all set up and cozy for him, and you deal all year with DeMarcus Cousins, unhappy and with a foot out the door. Then you are faced with the daunting prospect of matching an offer and bringing back an unhappy DeMarcus Cousins, which is just terrifying. There is no upside to delay when you already know the end result. As I've said before, this is just suck it up and take your medicine time.
 
He's a restricted free agent next offseason. And with a huge agent you take an enormous, and pointless, risk in playing games here. But this time next season an agent with pull could have DeMarcus's next home all set up and cozy for him, and you deal all year with DeMarcus Cousins, unhappy and with a foot out the door. Then you are faced with the daunting prospect of matching an offer and bringing back an unhappy DeMarcus Cousins, which is just terrifying. There is no upside to delay when you already know the end result. As I've said before, this is just suck it up and take your medicine time.
I'm gonna disagree with all you guys. He hasn't earned it, he doesn't get it. He can play for it if he wants it. If I remember correctly, the Kings can give him the longest and largest contract anyways when the time comes. I hope he becomes a max player, but in three years he hasn't.

I guess what I'm saying is I won't blame the Kings for not signing him yet. If they do, GREAT it's not my money, but when I put myself in the shoes of the ones writing the checks I can see why they wouldn't and I wouldn't.