Let's Say We Strike Out On Centers

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#1
Gasol is restricted, Chandler may prefer a contender, Dalembert may prefer Miami and take less money to do it, and Nene can practically name his destination. So let's say we can't get any of them. What then?

How about this for a two-pronged approach, all designed at forcing Philly to make hard choices (sorry, Sixers fans, nothing personal):

First, put in a big offer sheet on Thaddeus Young (and assume for the sake of argument he signs it). We know Philly is afraid that somebody is going to go after Young hard, and for good reason. 82games.com lists Young at +6.7 points per 100 possessions (compare LeBron at +9.9...not shabby!) Young also played better as a PF than as a SF, so he would really help round out the front court. Let's say we throw 3 years and $30M at him (go to 4 years if we really feel 3/30 isn't the best offer out there). Philly is going to have to swallow hard here - they've got $55M out there already for 9 players, and one of those is Nocioni. Can they afford to go to $65M for ten players and move up into the tax to resign Hawes?

If Philly lets him go, we bring back Thornton at about $6M and reach the salary floor, bringing in another cheap vet or two to ride the bench, and we get a 9-man rotation that looks about like this:

Backcourt: Evans/Thornton/Salmons/Fredette/ (Greene or Garcia)
Frontcourt: Cousins/Hickson/Young/Thompson

Here I like our backcourt a lot, given that we missed out on the big centers. Young adds youth, athleticism, and a fair amount of defense. Three of the four guys can slot over to C, so we can play any combo we want, but we do suffer in shotblocking. We make up for it by having three big scorers in the frontcourt. The backcourt is about what we've been expecting - and it will hinge on whether Tyreke comes back from the fasciitis, but then again just about everything does anyway, right?

But there's a back-up plan. Let's say that Philly actually matches the Young offer sheet. This puts them in dire financial straits and we've still got lots of money to spend. That's when we turn around and offer Garcia and Greene to Philly for Iguodala. Whoosh! If they accept, we just magically knocked $6M off of their cap hit this year and about $30M in guaranteed money over the life of the contract. (So note that our total increase in salary overall is about the same for either this or Plan A.) Again resign Thornton at about $6M, and now bring in a vet like Chuck Hayes on a one-year deal to bring us up to the minimum salary, about $4M or so, for a 9-man rotation of:

Backcourt: Evans/Thornton/Iguodala/Fredette/Salmons
Frontcourt: Cousins/Hickson/Thompson/ (Hayes or Whiteside)

Obviously there's no upgrade in the frontcourt here, but given that we missed out on the big-name centers, that's to be expected. One of either Hayes or Whiteside should be able to come in and alter a game defensively when we need it. I like the backcourt because we now have two elite perimeter defenders in Iggy and Salmons, and a ton of scoring, especially if Jimmer pans out. Iggy's contract does get a bit ugly as the years go by ($13.5, $14.7, $15.9) but it's nothing we can't handle if we plan right.

Any thoughts?
 
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#3
quite well thought out but yes jimmer becomes our sole long range bomber with Thornton and Salmons capable from time to time. Quite a defensive oriented lineup with Iggy, Reke and Salmons
 
#4
I haven't watched enough of Thad to know if he's worth the trouble, but I do like the strategy.

If there was ever a year to turn the screws on a team with a restricted free agent this is it. Offer a huge first year bonus with our cap space and no way a team like Philly could match.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#5
You're describing a fairly nightmarish scenario, but it might be the one that would actually get us talking seriously to Chuck Hayes.
 
#6
Lets put it this way...if we don't bring back Dalembert or we don't replace him with a player that does what Dalembert does (Chandler or Jordan) we won't sniff the playoffs and will be a lottery team again!

There is no excuses here! We have been hearing for years how we are preserving cap space for this very off season! We have heard owners proclaim how they will spend money! No team out there has more salary cap room than us and we have to spend at least $16-17 million this offseason! Not re-signing Dalembert would be entirely hierarchy's fault! If the reported asking price of Gasol, Nene and Chandler is true, then Dally is EASILY worth $12 million per season! EASILY!
 
#8
Lets put it this way...if we don't bring back Dalembert or we don't replace him with a player that does what Dalembert does (Chandler or Jordan) we won't sniff the playoffs and will be a lottery team again!

There is no excuses here! We have been hearing for years how we are preserving cap space for this very off season! We have heard owners proclaim how they will spend money! No team out there has more salary cap room than us and we have to spend at least $16-17 million this offseason! Not re-signing Dalembert would be entirely hierarchy's fault! If the reported asking price of Gasol, Nene and Chandler is true, then Dally is EASILY worth $12 million per season! EASILY!
I would argue that NONE of those centers are worth $12+ million a year. Just because they are asking for that money doesn't make them worth it. And while I want to get one of them on the Kings, it would be a mistake to overpay one of them now and hurt our chances of resigning some of our current young players in the future.
 
#9
I would argue that NONE of those centers are worth $12+ million a year. Just because they are asking for that money doesn't make them worth it. And while I want to get one of them on the Kings, it would be a mistake to overpay one of them now and hurt our chances of resigning some of our current young players in the future.
And that's your opinion but one that is often proven wrong by the market value. A player is worth what someone is willing to pay them. Another thing that has been true since professional basketball started to exist is that outside of your superstars, the players that are the next most important and hence most expensive type of player are defensive minded big man like Chandler and Dalembert.

If you don't have one of those, you are winning anything hence why they come with a hefty price tag. They might not be "sexy" enough, they might not push for a triple double every night, they might even fail to score in double figures but outside of a superstar they are the most important player on the team. They make a difference between mediocre team and a championship contender. Just take a look at Dallas and Chandler last season. If you asked the question 12 months earlier everyone would say that Chandler was severely overpaid but 12 months and a championship ring later, he is the most important cog in that Dallas side. They lose him, they won't go close to defending.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#10
Lets put it this way...if we don't bring back Dalembert or we don't replace him with a player that does what Dalembert does (Chandler or Jordan) we won't sniff the playoffs and will be a lottery team again!

There is no excuses here! We have been hearing for years how we are preserving cap space for this very off season! We have heard owners proclaim how they will spend money! No team out there has more salary cap room than us and we have to spend at least $16-17 million this offseason! Not re-signing Dalembert would be entirely hierarchy's fault! If the reported asking price of Gasol, Nene and Chandler is true, then Dally is EASILY worth $12 million per season! EASILY!
Or it just means that NBA owners are grossly irresponsible with their money.
 
#13
I appreciate your using Thad Young as potentially a tool to ultimately nab Iguodala (who I've sought as much as anyone, but the terrible, terrible Salmons trade shot down any such dreams in my mind). But if we're going to go after any of the SF/PF types out there, I'd prefer Kirilenko, who at least brings some shotblocking to the table if we're losing Dalembert and whiffing at Chandler
 
#15
Lets put it this way...if we don't bring back Dalembert or we don't replace him with a player that does what Dalembert does (Chandler or Jordan) we won't sniff the playoffs and will be a lottery team again!

There is no excuses here! We have been hearing for years how we are preserving cap space for this very off season! We have heard owners proclaim how they will spend money! No team out there has more salary cap room than us and we have to spend at least $16-17 million this offseason! Not re-signing Dalembert would be entirely hierarchy's fault! If the reported asking price of Gasol, Nene and Chandler is true, then Dally is EASILY worth $12 million per season! EASILY!
I agree for the most part. It's time for the Maloofs to pony up. There has to be a cutoff point though. I don't want to see them pay someone like Nene 17 million per just for the sake of getting a big name free agent. Not that I have to worry about that...The Mallofs these days probably wouldn't dole out that kind of dough even if they were getting Dwight Howard.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#19
I like Thad Young quite a bit. He's young, 23 if I'm not mistaken, and he can play both SF and PF. He's athletic and can almost guard 3 positions, and, Philly doesn't want to lose him, so I think they'll do almost anything to retain him. So its possible that they might go for your Iggy idea. Here's the thing. I don't think Young is worth 10 mil a year. He might be in 3 years from now, but I don't want to overpay for any player. Thats how the league has gotten itself in trouble.

I thought this whole lockout thing was about bringing salaries back to reality. For the same reason, I don't want to pay Dally 12 mil a year. I watch people go to the grocery store and compare how many ounces of a product they get for the dollar they spend. They're trying to decide whether the extra few cents is worth it. If owners would approach signing players the same way, from a dollar vr's value, There would be more sanity in the market.

Example: There have been proposals on this fourm for a trade of Evans for Paul. Lets forget for moment that other players were included along with Evans. Paul made 15 million last season, and Evans made 4 million. Is Paul the better all around player right now? Yes! But is he 11 million dollars better? I don't think so. I realize that Evans is still on his rookie contract, but isn't the whole point of the rookie contract to give you the most bang for your buck if you choose wisely.

If so, why then would you throw away a couple of years of that, unless you knew for a fact that the impact would be substantial enough for you to eat 11 million dollars more in salary. Everyone wants a quick fix, and I understand that. But many times that quick fix is very costly, not only in dollars, but in the overall destiny of the team.
 
#20
And that's your opinion but one that is often proven wrong by the market value. A player is worth what someone is willing to pay them. Another thing that has been true since professional basketball started to exist is that outside of your superstars, the players that are the next most important and hence most expensive type of player are defensive minded big man like Chandler and Dalembert.

If you don't have one of those, you are winning anything hence why they come with a hefty price tag. They might not be "sexy" enough, they might not push for a triple double every night, they might even fail to score in double figures but outside of a superstar they are the most important player on the team. They make a difference between mediocre team and a championship contender. Just take a look at Dallas and Chandler last season. If you asked the question 12 months earlier everyone would say that Chandler was severely overpaid but 12 months and a championship ring later, he is the most important cog in that Dallas side. They lose him, they won't go close to defending.
And that market has been fairly manipulated to favor the players in the form of amnesty and exceptions and what have you.
 
#21
I'm a huge fan of Iggy, and would absolutely love to see him as a King.

Can you imagine a team with him along-side Tyreke, Thorton, Cousins, and Dalembert?
That's just a physically dominant, nasty team, and I would love to see it smash other teams.

It lacks outside shooting, but Iggy is such a great defender as well as a great passer, and his offense is so much better when he doesn't have to carry his team, that I think we'd be fine on the offensive end.

I'd do just about anything to get him, so I love the idea of running up the price for Young, and hoping that they match, so that we could possibly have a shot at Iggy as a consolation prize.
And if we end up with Young, well, quality bigs are always in demand, so I don't think over-paying for him now would be that big of a deal.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
We need ballhandling. Worse TO to Assist ratio in the entire league last year.
However that wasn't particularly a ballhandling issue as much as it was a youth/smarts issue. We didn't have problems bringing the ball up, we had problems with inexpereinced guys forcing things that weren't there and not being smooth and settled with their teammates (Westphal's shuffleathon never helps there either).
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#25
However that wasn't particularly a ballhandling issue as much as it was a youth/smarts issue. We didn't have problems bringing the ball up, we had problems with inexpereinced guys forcing things that weren't there and not being smooth and settled with their teammates (Westphal's shuffleathon never helps there either).
You're getting into the reasons for the poor ballhandling. I'm just stating that there was very poor ball handling, and the stats certainly support that. It could be youth and smarts were to blame. If you adopt the "youth" reason, then it's guaranteed this team gets better in assists/turnovers. After all, there's nothing more certain than getting older. The youth of Cousins probably had an impact. Smarts? The "smarts" reason is disconcerting because there are players who can remain un-smart for a long time. Personally, I think the poor ballhandling is due to the inability and the unwillingness to pass the ball. I think the problem is more intransigent than many believe and I'm not willing to make the assumption that with a similar cast of characters the ballhandling improves considerably over last year.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#26
That was because of Cousins and Reke. Adding a ball handler is not going to fix that problem.
I disagree. A ballhandler can give Cousins and Tyreke the ball in the right place at the right time. Then they won't overdribble as much. Then their turnovers will go down. Also, a ballhandler can get this team into it's offense much sooner so that Cousins and Tyreke don't end up doing the one-on-one show at the end of the shot clock. That overdribbling one-on-one stuff lends itself to high turnover/assist stats.