WC Playoffs Round 3: (1) Los Angeles Vs. (3) Phoenix

The winner?

  • Total voters
    30
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
#31
And yet that really isn't the problem. Reminds me of all the times around here where he have lost a game 120-110 and everybody is bemoaning a lack of ball movement or whatever while I sit there and look at the boxscore and say "wrong end of the court people!"

Lakers refuse to control the pace and d-up. That's how you lose to a gimmick team like the Suns, by trying to outscore them.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#32
#32
Superman said:
The Lakers couldn't defend the pick and roll mostly because of Shaq's lack of mobility. The Bulls were always a top notch defensive team, although it's questionable how much Phil had to do with that. I'm not claiming that he's the best coach, but he's certainly good at taking a talented and somewhat underachieving team and getting them to play championship basketball.



You don't have to dribble into a zone in order to beat it. That's one way, but it's not the only way. Seeing as how the Lakers' strength is their size, especially against the Suns, it would make sense to use their size to beat the Suns zone. They are not a good defensive team, they don't have any good defensive players, and it's purely a scheme issue. The Lakers just refuse to attack the zone in any way other than passing the ball around the three point line or giving it to Kobe.
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Hey, don't forget the genius idea of kicking it to that dagger shooter,
Artest, waiting outside the arc. We ALL know how well that can turn out. The worst thing they can do is put it into Ron-Ron's head that they're counting on him as an outside shooter...and I'm loving it Bwahahahahaha! ;)
 
S

Superman

All-Star
#33
#33
Bricklayer said:
And yet that really isn't the problem. Reminds me of all the times around here where he have lost a game 120-110 and everybody is bemoaning a lack of ball movement or whatever while I sit there and look at the boxscore and say "wrong end of the court people!"

Lakers refuse to control the pace and d-up. That's how you lose to a gimmick team like the Suns, by trying to outscore them.
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Yet that's exactly how they won the first two games. The Lakers can't stop Phoenix from scoring 110 points a game. Sure it's easy to say "we lost because we gave up 115 points," but it's rare that the Suns don't score 115 points, especially at home.

In the Lakers' case, their transition defense is horrible, always has been. So if they are taking bad shots or turning the ball over, it's hurting their defense because their big men are slow to get back. Improving their efficiency and getting better shots on offense will automatically help their defense, if they choose to play some. And then there's stretches where you're just not gonna stop some teams, like when both sides caught fire in the second quarter last night.

In general, you're right, defense is lacking. But if you think you're going to slow it down and grind it out against the Suns (in particular when your offense is not taking good shots against their zone), I think you're mistaken.
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#34
#34
Yeah I find it surprising too that the Lakers can't figure out how to beat the zone. Just put Bynum down on the low block, Gasol at the foul line on the same side and overload with your best shooter on the weak side...not that difficult.

But bravo to the Suns for making this a series! Still have to win at least 1 in L.A. though
 
Variant

Variant

Starter
#36
#36
Is it really the zone so much? The Lakers have been scoring alright and put up a decent shooting %, though the last game they did shoot a ton of 3's...

I thought last night's game was more about Phoenix playing with a lot more effort. Rebounding and winning a lot of those 50/50 plays.

Even bigger than the zone the last two games has been the re-emergence of Amare.
 
Variant

Variant

Starter
#39
#39
Have been thoroughly enjoying the self-victimization going on on the Laker boards regarding foul discrepancies. Many angry and self-righteous soldiers of the Purple and Gold churning out numbers to support their sad tales of woe...

I feel like the difference in PF's in this series is fairly easily explained. And yes, I do grant that a raucous (sp?) home crowd coupled with an aggressive home team will probably have a couple calls go their way that wouldn't have on the road.

  • Both of the Suns wins were within reach by the Lakers in the last few minutes of the games. There were at least 9 PF's during this period of the two games as the Lakers tried a bit of the foul game to get back in it. Didn't work, but take these fouls away and the discrepancy in PF's is only 9 between the two games.
  • Both of the games in LA were blowouts. The Suns had no need to do the foul game to try and get back in it which would have artificially ramped their PF numbers up.
  • Phoenix just isn't as physical of a defensive team and this translates to fewer PF's in general. They'd rather pull the ball out of the net and run with it than take hard fouls as frequently as a team like LA.

Anyways... I haven't heard much of this crying going on at work, so maybe Laker fans are limiting their hypocrisy to the semi-anonymity of the world of the forum... :)
 
S

Superman

All-Star
#40
#40
Variant said:
Is it really the zone so much? The Lakers have been scoring alright and put up a decent shooting %, though the last game they did shoot a ton of 3's...

I thought last night's game was more about Phoenix playing with a lot more effort. Rebounding and winning a lot of those 50/50 plays.

Even bigger than the zone the last two games has been the re-emergence of Amare.
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All those things do matter, but the zone is what's keeping the Lakers 20 points below what they were scoring in Games 1 and 2.

It's also affecting their defense. In shooting long jumpers, they're giving up long rebounds, which leads to transition opportunities for the Suns. Another thing is that when you're going against a zone, you have to be alert enough to find your man as soon as the ball goes up. The matchups can be all over the place. And even if it's just once or twice a quarter, it has an effect on the defensive end in a very direct manner, plus it increases frustration for the whole team.

There's a lot of residual effects of what the Suns are doing defensively. It helps that they are working hard, for the most part, but the scheme is really a significant factor.
 
Larry89

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#43
#43
C webb asked about the zone defense and how phil approched it, and phil just stared at him and didnt answer the question, then he said he couldnt understand anything he said
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#47
#47
Larry89 said:
C webb asked about the zone defense and how phil approched it, and phil just stared at him and didnt answer the question, then he said he couldnt understand anything he said
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Phil is just bent that his inability to overcome a zone D is exposing him as a coattail riding mediocre coach.


Plus he's a dbag.
 
Variant

Variant

Starter
#49
#49
Those questions from the studio are always ridiculous. It's a gimmick they need to end....

Lakers were fortunate to pull that one out, but the Suns started playing way too late. If the wind wasn't knocked out of their sails completely, looks like this one may go seven and they'll have a chance to redeem themselves.

Anyone else notice the 2-pter Kobe hit in the first half that was counted as a 3? Not sure that it would have made a difference down the stretch, but gotta blame the Suns coaching staff for not catching it and asking for a review...
 
LoungeLizard

LoungeLizard

Starter
#50
#50
Just once, just once I would like to see the Lakers on the opposite end of one of these buzzer beaters. I'm not talking about a regular season buzzer beater, I'm talking about a dagger through your heart game 4 or 5 series swinging buzzer beater that deflates the team. Between Horry, Fisher, and now Artest...ahhh this just makes me sick. Suns almost stole this game, and had it gone back to Phoenix 3-2 the other way I think the Suns pull it out. Hopefully the Suns can come back and take game 6 but its unlikely they win a game 7 at Staples.
 
Variant

Variant

Starter
#51
#51
There are a few classic Laker playoff losses:

  • Kobe crying at the hand of the Spurs after the 3-peat was over.
  • Detroit demolishing the hall-o-fame team in the Finals
  • Tim Thomas's 3 in the first round a couple years back
  • Boston's comeback in LA (probably the most satisfying game I've ever watched)

I didn't hate the Lakers back when the Jazz were knocking them out every year, but I do remember Kobe's airballs...

You'd think all the wins/advantages LA has would give Laker fans very little to be upset about, but that Boston series from two years ago is a large, open gaping wound that still evokes tears at work when it's brought up. :)
 
LoungeLizard

LoungeLizard

Starter
#52
#52
Variant said:
There are a few classic Laker playoff losses:

  • Kobe crying at the hand of the Spurs after the 3-peat was over.
  • Detroit demolishing the hall-o-fame team in the Finals
  • Tim Thomas's 3 in the first round a couple years back
  • Boston's comeback in LA (probably the most satisfying game I've ever watched)
I didn't hate the Lakers back when the Jazz were knocking them out every year, but I do remember Kobe's airballs...

You'd think all the wins/advantages LA has would give Laker fans very little to be upset about, but that Boston series from two years ago is a large, open gaping wound that still evokes tears at work when it's brought up. :)
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Thank you for brightening my day!! :D
 
hoopsfan

hoopsfan

Starter
#54
#54
Variant said:
You'd think all the wins/advantages LA has would give Laker fans very little to be upset about, but that Boston series from two years ago is a large, open gaping wound that still evokes tears at work when it's brought up. :)
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I seriously doubt that. If that's the case, then they've got more serious problems than a basketball game. I'm about as big a die-hard fan around and I certainly wouldn't cry over a bball game.
 
rexb_kings

rexb_kings

Bench
#56
#56
it seems the basketball gods are wearing Laker jerseys lately..

Pau Gasols late tip-in against the Oklahoma Thunder
Wes Matthew's uncontested missed tip in (Jazz-Lakers series)
and now Ron Artest's follow-up shot..

hopefully Suns win Game 6 and beat Lakers in 7..
 
S

Superman

All-Star
#57
#57
SacKings7 said:
I can't remember the last time I saw the Lakers lose a close game. It makes me sick
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I was fully prepared to see the Lakers hit the game winner last night. What upsets me (and what should upset the Suns and their coaching staff) is that no one boxed out. Artest came from the other side of the basket, fielded the airball like a punt, and went back up with it. No one fought for the rebound. No one chased it down. No one was there to block Artest's putback. It was horrible. The Suns deserved to lose because of that fundamental breakdown on the biggest play of the game. I don't know what they were thinking or doing, but it's their fault alone.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#59
#59
LoungeLizard said:
Just once, just once I would like to see the Lakers on the opposite end of one of these buzzer beaters. I'm not talking about a regular season buzzer beater, I'm talking about a dagger through your heart game 4 or 5 series swinging buzzer beater that deflates the team. Between Horry, Fisher, and now Artest...ahhh this just makes me sick. Suns almost stole this game, and had it gone back to Phoenix 3-2 the other way I think the Suns pull it out. Hopefully the Suns can come back and take game 6 but its unlikely they win a game 7 at Staples.
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Yeah, a stake through the heart, then burn the body...
 
Variant

Variant

Starter
#60
#60
hoopsfan said:
I seriously doubt that. If that's the case, then they've got more serious problems than a basketball game. I'm about as big a die-hard fan around and I certainly wouldn't cry over a bball game.
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Nope. Calling you on that one. :) I live in SoCal and the office was like a morgue the week after the '08 Finals. People still don't want to talk about that series....

Actually, I think it's probably kinda tough to be a Laker fan! Every year is championship or bust whereas I can be stoked by my team getting a lottery pick, woohoo... :)

(And yes, friend of mine literally cried... that's pretty hard core fandom right there)
 
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