Beno reminds us why he's here

[Gary]

His shot does need to get better... and like he said they are working on it and it's a work in progress. He has much to learn and with his potential he needs to be on the floor to learn it.

Aries said we dont need someone that is trying to learn to be PG but we need one that already knows how to play one........ lol um... no if we were contenders for a freaking playoff spot... then you can make that argument.

IN case people don't know yet the only contention were in is for the worst record in the league. This is the time you take a gamble on a 6'4" 220LB wingspan of a powerforward player with incredible slashing abilities and solid court vision.

BECAUSE if that player turns out to be able to LEARN to run a team well enough that he is not a liability as a point guard then you have a nightmare on the floor for the opposing team.

And so far... Tyreke is far from a liability as a PG in only his 4th freaking game.... and that's why you start Evans over beno dude. Beno is a better NBA PG then Rubio for all we know... but im sure u'd be singing a different tune bout him though.

Like I said above.. It does not hurt him to come off the bench.. It might even be better for him not having to fight out of a hole each game. If a positive tempo was set by Beno then he could play more loosely out there.. If Beno sucked in a starting role then move him back to the bench..

I would rather win than play scientist.

 

[ovrush]

With the exception of Paul and Williams in Utah most people say it takes longer for a point guard to develop in the NBA than any other position. Many say it takes a couple years to truly grasp all the nuances of being an NBA point. So, yes we should expect Beno to run the offense better than Tyreke. Just because he isn't as polished as Beno at the 1 yet doesn't mean he's a shooting guard. He clearly has the vision, ball handling, and quickness to be a 1. He just needs some time to learn all the nuances of the NBA. I find it astounding that people are claiming he's not a 1 after three games because he doesn't run the offense as smoothe as the returning starter.

Tyreke is still much more talented and it suits our long term growth much more for Tyreke to be out there on the floor learning. It definitely wouldn't help us to have Tyreke coming off the bench learning multiple positions given the difficulty of learning to play the point in the NBA.

All that aside, glad to see Beno coming off the bench and working hard and playing well. He played a great game.

 

[M_Barragan]

Winning 2 more games won't satisfy me.... What will satisfy me is Tyreke becoming adequate at running the offense and us still be in position to pick up talent we desperately need in the Draft.

Worse case scenerio Tyreke moves to 2G and we land another lottery pick.

Best Case Scenerio Tyreke proves to play PG like every PG in the league besides Steve Nash and CP3 does and we still have a lottery pick.

Either way you use the time that you suck to teach the guy you think has the potential to make the greatest impact in the game what he needs to learn.

Hell you can't even say beno would win us more games man... he had one good game just like Tyreke did but of course yall dont see that lol. Tyreke is a far superior defender.

Beno... the guy all of you were ****ting on just yesterday... you want to start over your player with the highest potential. To do what win what 2 more games if that.... i bet you over an 82 games season he loses you more games then win brother.... At least Tyreke brings defensive effort every game not to mention in his 4th game in this League he has still yet to be an offensive liabilty.

 

[AriesMar27]

I don't agree with that logic.. Coming off the bench wouldn't hurt his game at all...

shake and bake gary.... for some reason evans can only learn to play pg by starting... yet steve nash came off the bench in the beginning and was fine in the end... even won a couple of mvps....

i dont know what would be so horrible about him coming off the bench. thats almost as crazy as not trading your expiring contracts for vets with long term contracts that steal minutes from young players.

coming off the bench would help his game. maybe he can learn to make layups if he isnt worried about having to pass the ball to hawes or martin. he can just score, score, score until he is ready to run the team. he cant do both right now. when he set up players his scoring took a hit and when he focused on scoring he not only missed his layups but couldnt run the offense.

 

[M_Barragan]

With the exception of Paul and Williams in Utah most people say it takes longer for a point guard to develop in the NBA than any other position. Many say it takes a couple years to truly grasp all the nuances of being an NBA point. So, yes we should expect Beno to run the offense better than Tyreke. Just because he isn't as polished as Beno at the 1 yet doesn't mean he's a shooting guard. He clearly has the vision, ball handling, and quickness to be a 1. He just needs some time to learn all the nuances of the NBA. I find it astounding that people are claiming he's not a 1 after three games because he doesn't run the offense as smoothe as the returning starter.

Tyreke is still much more talented and it suits our long term growth much more for Tyreke to be out there on the floor learning. It definitely wouldn't help us to have Tyreke coming off the bench learning multiple positions given the difficulty of learning to play the point in the NBA.

All that aside, glad to see Beno coming off the bench and working hard and playing well. He played a great game.

Someone with some common sense...

 

[Gary]

Someone with some common sense...

OK Mr. common sense... Why would it be bad for a rookie that doesn't know how to play NBA PG yet come off the bench?

 

[AriesMar27]

Beno... the guy all of you were ****ting on just yesterday... you want to start over your player with the highest potential. To do what win what 2 more games if that.... i bet you over an 82 games season he loses you more games then win brother.... At least Tyreke brings defensive effort every game not to mention in his 4th game in this League he has still yet to be an offensive liabilty.

wait a minute, not an offensive liability? beno tied the game with a layup... are you serious? tyreke wouldve blew the layup, the kings wouldve lost and everyone here would be talking about how proud they are that evans tried to take the gamewinning/tying shot. and then gary and myself would be talking about how beno wouldnt have missed the layup. evans is good at defending pgs because he is half a foot taller than they are. i havent seen him check anybody his height and didnt chris paul score 31 points against evans or was beno guarding him the entire time?

 

[kingsnation]

Ok, I've learned one thing here: First it was Ricky Rubio. Now it's Beno. Next will be Kenny Thomas. and then it will somewhere along the lines of President Obama or Michael Jackson.

Everyone is better at PG than Tyreke and Anyone should start at PG right now besides him.

 

[AriesMar27]

Ok, I've learned one thing here: First it was Ricky Rubio. Now it's Beno. Next will be Kenny Thomas. and then it will somewhere along the lines of President Obama or Michael Jackson.

Everyone is better at PG than Tyreke and Anyone should start at PG right now besides him.

whoa.... i said that beno was a better pg than evans back in the offseason. i would still rather see beno traded which is the main reason why id rather see him start. that and he is better at running the offense than evans.

i heard that obama can ball, he's 6'1 so he wouldnt be too small to play pg and we would sellout every game if he were our starting pg.

beno is still a scrub.... and evans still isnt a pg... i cant wait for the game where he proves otherwise.... i wont hold my breathe....

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

shake and bake gary.... for some reason evans can only learn to play pg by starting... yet steve nash came off the bench in the beginning and was fine in the end... even won a couple of mvps....

In the dictionary, next to the definition of "specious," there is a copy of your post.

Nash (15th overall pick) came off the bench behind Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd on a playoff team, therefore Evans (4th overall pick) should come off the bench behind Beno F. Udrih on a lottery team?

We already know how far we would get with Udrih starting: 17-65, that's how ****ing far.

 

[ZZ-TOP]

In the dictionary, next to the definition of "specious," there is a copy of your post.

Nash (15th overall pick) came off the bench behind Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd on a playoff team, therefore Evans (4th overall pick) should come off the bench behind Beno F. Udrih on a lottery team?

We already know how far we would get with Udrih starting: 17-65, that's how ****ing far.

What if he was told, to tank those games, to get us Tyreke F. Evans?

 

[Big Cuz 15]

stick w/ tyreke. beno is not the long term solution.

 

[ovrush]

shake and bake gary.... for some reason evans can only learn to play pg by starting... yet steve nash came off the bench in the beginning and was fine in the end... even won a couple of mvps....

i dont know what would be so horrible about him coming off the bench. thats almost as crazy as not trading your expiring contracts for vets with long term contracts that steal minutes from young players.

coming off the bench would help his game. maybe he can learn to make layups if he isnt worried about having to pass the ball to hawes or martin. he can just score, score, score until he is ready to run the team. he cant do both right now. when he set up players his scoring took a hit and when he focused on scoring he not only missed his layups but couldnt run the offense.

You make a perfect comparison except for a few minor minor things

1. Steve Nash was on the Bench behind Jason Kidd (in his prime). Last time I checked Beno isn't quite as good as Jason Kidd in his prime
2. Steve Nash was on the bench for a phoenix team that went 56-26 and was ranked 4rth in the West. They didn't play a young guy because they were a playoff team pushing for a title not a rebuilding team coming off a 17 win season.
3. Steve nash failed to develop for Phoenix to the point they didn't feel the need to pay him and let him leave for Dallas. Once he was in Dallas he had 2 average (to sub par years) as a starter where he had to learn to be an NBA quality starting PG before his numbers really took off.

So in summary, the person you chose as an example was a perfect example of how playing time is what it takes to develop a point guard. Steve Nash didn't become an amazing all nba pg sitting on the bench behind Jason Kidd, he became a great NBA pg by taking his lumps and making mistakes starting on a bad Dallas team for a couple of years. I understand Rubio has been a pro for a while and is more polished, but traditional, home grown point guards do take time (playing and age) to develop. Tyreke is the guy we have now, and if we want him to develop history says you need to play him not sit him.


For the record, Steve Nash's stats his first two years as a starter with Dallas:



g gs mpg fg% 3pt% rpg apg spg TO ppg
1998: 40 40 31.7 .363 .374 2.9 5.5 .9 2.08 7.9
1999: 56 27 27.4 .477 .403 2.2 4.9 .7 1.82 8.6


The traditional rule for PGs has been it takes 2 years to develop them and the example you brought up took 2 years of starting before his breakout third year.

 

[M_Barragan]

Yup we know for certain Tyreke would miss that layup... Yup we know for certain Beno would make every shot Tyreke missed.

Whether you like it or not Tyreke has the court vision to deserve the chance to prove his point at PG. Not like this team has a decent PG he is competing with... This is Beno Udrich were talking about.

If he lacked court vision then you guys would have a point. The thing is he has the court vision... what he still needs to learn is nuances, the system, and what decision to make and where...

For example that alley to JT this game... He should have driven to the hole and created contact... He'll learn that as the situation arises... You learn through experience and mistakes. You increase your chances of learning the more exposed you are to what ever you are trying to learn... hence why he should and does and whether you like it or not will start as Point Guard.

As far as him missing layups... the kid has good touch and large hands... he will be fine. Since this is his grand total of 4th game in the NBA lol... I can assume he is driving expecting contact. He is finding out that the whistle is not being blown... he will adjust like every player in this league does. But for somereason you guys seem to forget he has played less games then fingers you have on one hand. Yet you want to compare him to a player that has what 410 games on his belt???

The game differs greatly from HS to College to the NBA... They are different games you have to learn... you just carry your skill and progress with them along the way. He is one year removed from Highschool.

CP3 had 31 points... I do believe 6 or 8 of those points were freethrows at the end of the game. Another 3 was that nice open 3 pointer Beno Udrich let him have wide open at the of the third as well as 2 more buckets while he was in the game. Tyreke had 22 so what's your point?

CP3 makes a living coming around screens... when an offensive player comes around a screen defensive responsibilities move from thhe guy guarding him to the entire team untill he can recover. Or in the case of a drive the guys in the lane have to impose themselves to stop the drive.

Last time I checked its still impossible to teleport around a screen. But i don't know rubio probably has that ability.

 

[ZZ-TOP]

I think everybody agrees that Evans should be a starting PG for the Kings in the future, if he lives up to the hype.
But, yes there is a but, I would like him to earn that spot. I don't like the idea of giving him the job for free. Often that means spoiling a young player that doesn't develop to his full potential.
To sum it up. He should be a starting PG in the future, but there are different ways to get him there.

 

[M_Barragan]

Thing is we suck... might as well speed up his success or failure while we have absolutely nothing to lose. Which is why he is starting and will continue to start untill the situation dictates otherwise.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/2301260.html

I guess his ankle was still bothering him. I was suprised he played. I sprained my ankle like that one game and played the next game only to sprain it again because it was weak. Ended in a cast for 3 months with an acute ankle sprain and a leg as black as charcoal from the bruising. My ankle still hurts occasionally.

If he is not ready to play on that ankle they need to sit him out we don't need to risk his health like that.

 

[Chupacabra]

OK Mr. common sense... Why would it be bad for a rookie that doesn't know how to play NBA PG yet come off the bench?

It would be bad for Evans to come off the bench because we're one of the worst teams in the league and Evans was the 4th overall pick.

Sincerely,
Mr. Common Sense

 

[ZZ-TOP]

Thing is we suck... might as well speed up his success or failure while we have absolutely nothing to lose. Which is why he is starting and will continue to start until the situation dictates otherwise.

Thing is we suck..., but Kings do have something to lose. If you play a young player a bunch of minutes as a leader and his team is losing night after night, he might develop a losers mentality (after a while he just doesn't care anymore). There is a bunch of players all over this league as proof of this claim.
If you manage his minutes carefully, you can get him "hungry" even on a losing team. Take your pick.

 

[Sac.1989]

that point stands but still after 4 games its too early to make the switch, if beno keeps it up then make the swap. Were closer to swapping caspi and hawes into the starting 5 then bringing reke off

 

[Gary]

It would be bad for Evans to come off the bench because we're one of the worst teams in the league and Evans was the 4th overall pick.

Sincerely,
Mr. Common Sense

That didn't make sense though. The ultimate goal of any team is to win, right? It is also the goal of the coach to play who is best at each position, right?

I had "potential" as well playing baseball in high school coming into my freshman year having played since I was a little tyke. They could have threw me on the varsity team, and benched a guy that had been there for three previous seasons because I had potential and I was the future of EGHS baseball not the guy who was leaving after the year... So why worry about winning when you can throw a bunch of 14 year olds on the varsity team and let them learn as they get beat to a pulp every day. After three years of losing do you think going into their senior year all of a sudden they are going to know how to win? Or will the coach bench them all and play with some new freshman because they are the "future".

I guess the point of my post is that the Kings should start the players best suited to play the position regardless of who was drafted 4th. Make Evans EARN the right to start rather than tossing him in there and letting him suck *** because that's the only way he will "learn".. It's common sense...

 

[Bricklayer]

My IQ has dropped just reading the ridiculous turn this thread has taken, an I am therefore going to leave now. Fortunately I had points to spare.

 

[Geoff]

What worries me is that Tyreke's innate decision making will never be as good as Udrih's. Something we might have to wait years to find out.

Better to find it out now than later...patience is a virtue and this is the time to learn through trial and error.

 

[Rookie]

Beno did a great job last night. I think he was the reason for the comeback. Hope he can keep this up. Thanks Beno for a great home opener game.

Evans is our investment toward the rebuilding of this team, not Beno. Stop worrying about the win and start developing. Sometime I can't help but feel that there are some Kings fans out there that would rather see Evans failed than succeed so that they can be right.

 

[apollo916]

Tyreke is a SG, He should back up Martin Beno should still be starting-give REKE some minutes at the PG. Start Omri, hes been our most consistant rookie.

Hawes/May
Thompson/Brock/ Thomas
Omri/Nocioni/Greene
Martin/Reke/Mason
Beno/Reke/Sergio

 

[kingsnation]

I seriously bet that other fans/other players must get the biggest laugh of their lives when they come here and see advocating for Beno and Kenny Thomas (joke or not.)

Be careful Pro-Beno's, Geoff might just offer up an extension to Beno after reading your posts. But after all, that wouldn't be such a bad thing, right? After all, he knows how to run this offense once a month and it would def. raise his trade value.

 

[kingsnation]

That didn't make sense though. The ultimate goal of any team is to win, right? It is also the goal of the coach to play who is best at each position, right?

I had "potential" as well playing baseball in high school coming into my freshman year having played since I was a little tyke. They could have threw me on the varsity team, and benched a guy that had been there for three previous seasons because I had potential and I was the future of EGHS baseball not the guy who was leaving after the year... So why worry about winning when you can throw a bunch of 14 year olds on the varsity team and let them learn as they get beat to a pulp every day. After three years of losing do you think going into their senior year all of a sudden they are going to know how to win? Or will the coach bench them all and play with some new freshman because they are the "future".

I guess the point of my post is that the Kings should start the players best suited to play the position regardless of who was drafted 4th. Make Evans EARN the right to start rather than tossing him in there and letting him suck *** because that's the only way he will "learn".. It's common sense...

a. This is the NBA, not a bunch of freshman. Careers, livelihoods and money are on the line.

b. This team could be on the verge of moving. The stupidest thing this FO could do would be to draft a top 5 player after going 17-65, and bench him for Beno Udrih. Tyreke has offered hope for the future for a fanbase that hasn't seen many good things lately. Starting Beno would only put the franchise in reverse and on their way out of town. I think the only ones in Arco Arena cheering for that Beno starting would be a few select posters from here and Beno's parents.

c. Im not sure what kind of "winning," you're talking about. We went 17-65 last year and Beno was the starter. Do you think he could inch us closer to 20 wins this year? maybe 19?

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but Tyreke is going to be here a very long time. He is our future. If you want to win in 3 years, you better invest and nurture Reke's development now.

I'm preparing myself to see some people calling for Mikki to come back so JT can develop off the bench. Sad but true.

 

[JasonThompsonFan]

Beno did look real good but he seems to play better coming off the bench. So this is a big plus because Beno, Noci, Casspi, May and Kenny for spot play off the bench (assuming Hawes will start for now on) really gives us a nice bench.

Some players just do better either starting or coming off the bench, Beno is better off the bench. I think once Spencer is back in the starting lineup, we won't have slow starts. I also hope Mason is out of the starting line up, in favor of either Casspi or Noci.

 

[Kingster]

Although this has been discussed in the Grizz thread, it seems inevitable after Beno's performance tonight that this topic needs its own space.

Beno runs the offense better than Tyreke. Whether Evans should come off the bench for Martin/Beno or start himself as SF or PG, I would like to see Beno get another chance at being the primary pg. The main problem with this is that if Evans can learn how to run the offense, why delay it? As for me, I'd rather have the W. So now we come back to getting Lins, as always. Which would you rather have?

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[asakkings]

Hopefully Beno can build up some trade value with good play. It would be nice to get rid of his monstrous contract.

 

[AriesMar27]

Beno did look real good but he seems to play better coming off the bench. So this is a big plus because Beno, Noci, Casspi, May and Kenny for spot play off the bench (assuming Hawes will start for now on) really gives us a nice bench.

Some players just do better either starting or coming off the bench, Beno is better off the bench. I think once Spencer is back in the starting lineup, we won't have slow starts. I also hope Mason is out of the starting line up, in favor of either Casspi or Noci.

how would you know that if he hasnt started yet? by that logic hawes and casspi play beeter coming off the bench as well...

i dont care for beno, i dont want him on the team, but he is a better pg than tyreke. i hate kobe but if he were on the team i would want him starting every possible game regardless of how much i like martin or how much potential martin might have.

if hawes has to earn his spot, so does evans.... if he were drafted #23 instead of casspi would you still want evans to start at pg? say we got thabeet at #4 and somehow evans fell all the way to 23... same talent and everything just different draft spot. would he be starting for this team at pg?

no, hell no.... he cant even make a layup. his court vision is suspect, he's half a foot taller than the guy that is guarding him. he shouldnt have any problems seeing the floor. yet his passing still sucks... he didnt look hurt, he had no problem dribbling the ball for half of the shot clock only to drive and dish the ball to someone who was in no position to make a play.

puff, puff, pass....