I cant wait for the season
- Thread starter BonziFan
- Start date
That sort of bass-ackwards thinking is why people occasionally lose their life saving investing in some company or other: "But, they're the bank... if they didn't know what they were doing, they wouldn't be running the bank!" If you're really that trusting, I recommend that you divest any holdings in volatile stocks you may have.
There are something like three hundred million people in this country, and exactly twenty-nine general manager positions in the NBA. If you seriously believe that the only people in this country smart enough to be the general manager of an NBA team are the people who have the jobs right now, you are sadly misinformed. And, to paraphrase G³, possibly bat**** insane.
There are dozens, and possibly hundreds of professional people who post on this board. Lawyers... doctors... journalists... college professors. Are you seriously trying to tell me that nobody on this board is smart enough to GM a basketball team?
There are something like three hundred million people in this country, and exactly twenty-nine general manager positions in the NBA. If you seriously believe that the only people in this country smart enough to be the general manager of an NBA team are the people who have the jobs right now, you are sadly misinformed. And, to paraphrase G³, possibly bat**** insane.
There are dozens, and possibly hundreds of professional people who post on this board. Lawyers... doctors... journalists... college professors. Are you seriously trying to tell me that nobody on this board is smart enough to GM a basketball team?
That is not what I am saying at all, but I don't at all think that Petrie is a bad GM. I believe he is one of the top 5 in the league and I think that you should not be thinking you could do better than him. There are plenty of people in this world that could do the job but he is better than 25 already in the league IMO. I just wouldn't be going out there stating I could do a better job than him because nobody knows what he has to deal with on a day to day basis. You don't know what trades can and can't be made. Just because you think it is a good idea doesn't mean anybody else in the league does.
Last edited:
BonziFan, you can think whatever you want to think about Petrie, but that doesn't mean that any of the rest of us have to give him a free pass. You think that nobody here could do a better job than Petrie? You might be right, but the laws of probability are against you. Sheer numbers suggest that there's at least one person on this board that could do a better job. That doesn't mean that they'll ever get a chance to do a better job, and just because they don't get that chance doesn't mean that they couldn't do it.
If you want to deify Petrie, go right ahead. Personally, I do not think that Petrie is one of the top 5 GM's in the league; I'd rate RC Buford, Randy Pfund, Donnie Nelson, John Paxson and Joe Dumars all ahead of him. And, frankly, I'd hesitate to rate him ahead of Rod Thorn or Larry Bird, based on what he's done in the past few years... even Elgin Baylor's had more recent success.
Petrie doesn't get an unlimited free pass just because he was great once.
If you want to deify Petrie, go right ahead. Personally, I do not think that Petrie is one of the top 5 GM's in the league; I'd rate RC Buford, Randy Pfund, Donnie Nelson, John Paxson and Joe Dumars all ahead of him. And, frankly, I'd hesitate to rate him ahead of Rod Thorn or Larry Bird, based on what he's done in the past few years... even Elgin Baylor's had more recent success.
Petrie doesn't get an unlimited free pass just because he was great once.
I've been where you are now, defending our players, our coaches, our GM and our owners against every negative comment. And I eventually realized one very important thing...
If everyone felt the same, Kingsfans.com wouldn't exist. People come to discuss, debate, exchange ideas, etc. And that's good. It's what a message board is and should be all about.
I do have to agree with 6th...
I would add one thing - you can tear down someones' viewpoint. It's when you tear the person making the comments down or ridicule them because their point of view isn't the same as yours that I think problems occur. People can disagree and still be respectful or at least civil about it.
I do understand your frustration but you're taking the comments here way too personally - in behalf of Petrie, in this case.
Geoff Petrie is being paid millions of dollars to be the general manager and President of Basketball Operations of the Sacramento Kings. Criticism comes with the job. If people want to come here and play "virtual GM" it really doesn't hurt anything. It's part and parcel of the whole fan universe.
It's just comments on a message board. People are doing TDOS armchair general managing, just like football fans do Monday morning quarterbacking.
Yes, sometimes people get carried away and the comments really go over the line IMHO, but just like the people who sit in the stands during the games, you'll have fans at both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between.
Bottom line, it's degrees of passion and enthusiasm. We're all Kings fans (with the obvious exception of people like hoopsfan and Gargamel, who are Laker fans). Our vision of our team may be different but we all want the same result. We want them to win.
GO KINGS!!!!
If everyone felt the same, Kingsfans.com wouldn't exist. People come to discuss, debate, exchange ideas, etc. And that's good. It's what a message board is and should be all about.
I do have to agree with 6th...
I would add one thing - you can tear down someones' viewpoint. It's when you tear the person making the comments down or ridicule them because their point of view isn't the same as yours that I think problems occur. People can disagree and still be respectful or at least civil about it.
I do understand your frustration but you're taking the comments here way too personally - in behalf of Petrie, in this case.
Geoff Petrie is being paid millions of dollars to be the general manager and President of Basketball Operations of the Sacramento Kings. Criticism comes with the job. If people want to come here and play "virtual GM" it really doesn't hurt anything. It's part and parcel of the whole fan universe.
It's just comments on a message board. People are doing TDOS armchair general managing, just like football fans do Monday morning quarterbacking.
Yes, sometimes people get carried away and the comments really go over the line IMHO, but just like the people who sit in the stands during the games, you'll have fans at both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between.
Bottom line, it's degrees of passion and enthusiasm. We're all Kings fans (with the obvious exception of people like hoopsfan and Gargamel, who are Laker fans). Our vision of our team may be different but we all want the same result. We want them to win.
GO KINGS!!!!
I agree that he doesn't get a free pass. I just can't see how we can say he is not doing everything possible because we don't know everything that goes on. Maybe he should gut it and start over, but given the current situation that is the only way we can get better drafts picks and build for the future. I just think his hands are tied with cap situations and what not. I just don't see anything more that can happen no matter who has the job. I actually appreciate your research and understand where you are coming from. I just feel that he is stuck right now. Thanks for the sparring. You sound like a very knowledgable person and I apoligize if you think I may not be. I think we all want a winner without giving up completely and I think this may be the only way.
I agree BonziFan.
You know, I always hear the expression "everyone has a great book in them." Everyone thinks they can write a book and get it published and it will be the great American novel. People think, hey, I can write a sentence, how hard could it be to write a book? It sure LOOKS easy.
Well, actually, most of what everyone writes is crap. Having the talent to be a great author is rarer than one in a million. It's on par with being an NBA player. Most everyone on this board knows they will never make the NBA because it's obvious -- we can't dunk. We know we're not the next Michael Jordan. But since it LOOKS easy to write a book everyone thinks they're the next Hemingway -- nevermind that it's as hard to be Hemingway as it is to be Michael Jordan.
Meanwhile, everyone on the internet who can go to RealGM thinks GMing is a piece of cake. Heck, how hard could it be? It LOOKS easy. So everyone thinks they're the next undiscovered great GM. Nevermind how hard it is to be a GM and how much basketball knowledge you need and negotiating skills and on and on and on. If it looks easy it must be, right? Um, no. Not really.
GMs are hired by some of the smartest business minds in the country (except for Larry Dolan of course). It's one of the most sought-after jobs in the world and there are thousands of hyper-competitive people who want it. It's a meritocracy. With a few exceptions (cough Isiah Thomas) the people who are in those jobs are there because they've risen up through some hyper-competitive ranks. They're liable to be fired at any time if they don't produce and new talent rises up. It's harder to make it to GM than it is to make the NBA.
So it's patently ridiculous to say that any joe schmoe could do a better job than a GM. Do GMs make bad moves? Of course. Heck, I screw up all the time in my job.
Does that mean a joe schmoe could do their job as well as someone who has scraped their way to the top of the heap and been named to one of the most coveted job in all of sports? You tell me. Do you think you're also the next Hemingway?
You know, I always hear the expression "everyone has a great book in them." Everyone thinks they can write a book and get it published and it will be the great American novel. People think, hey, I can write a sentence, how hard could it be to write a book? It sure LOOKS easy.
Well, actually, most of what everyone writes is crap. Having the talent to be a great author is rarer than one in a million. It's on par with being an NBA player. Most everyone on this board knows they will never make the NBA because it's obvious -- we can't dunk. We know we're not the next Michael Jordan. But since it LOOKS easy to write a book everyone thinks they're the next Hemingway -- nevermind that it's as hard to be Hemingway as it is to be Michael Jordan.
Meanwhile, everyone on the internet who can go to RealGM thinks GMing is a piece of cake. Heck, how hard could it be? It LOOKS easy. So everyone thinks they're the next undiscovered great GM. Nevermind how hard it is to be a GM and how much basketball knowledge you need and negotiating skills and on and on and on. If it looks easy it must be, right? Um, no. Not really.
GMs are hired by some of the smartest business minds in the country (except for Larry Dolan of course). It's one of the most sought-after jobs in the world and there are thousands of hyper-competitive people who want it. It's a meritocracy. With a few exceptions (cough Isiah Thomas) the people who are in those jobs are there because they've risen up through some hyper-competitive ranks. They're liable to be fired at any time if they don't produce and new talent rises up. It's harder to make it to GM than it is to make the NBA.
So it's patently ridiculous to say that any joe schmoe could do a better job than a GM. Do GMs make bad moves? Of course. Heck, I screw up all the time in my job.
Does that mean a joe schmoe could do their job as well as someone who has scraped their way to the top of the heap and been named to one of the most coveted job in all of sports? You tell me. Do you think you're also the next Hemingway?
I'd give anything to read a book written by Geoff Petrie and telling all - after he's retired, of course.
I honestly don't understand why this comes up every year. We know some fans are more rabid than others; we know some people are going to be contrary no matter what. Isn't that part of what makes the flavor of a website?
If you go to the fan board of any NBA team, regardless of what they've accomplished, you're going to find people who think TPTB for the team either walk on water or deserve to be run out of town on a rail. And you'll find a lot of people between those two extremes.
Personally, although some people do go overboard on occasion, I relish the exchange of ideas, the interplay between members, etc. And besides - if the people who think they could do a better job than Petrie end up being wrong, it's always fun to see how they justify it (if we ever see them again).
IMHO, it's all good... We're all still Kings fans. It could be worse...a lot worse. We could be Knicks fans.
I honestly don't understand why this comes up every year. We know some fans are more rabid than others; we know some people are going to be contrary no matter what. Isn't that part of what makes the flavor of a website?
If you go to the fan board of any NBA team, regardless of what they've accomplished, you're going to find people who think TPTB for the team either walk on water or deserve to be run out of town on a rail. And you'll find a lot of people between those two extremes.
Personally, although some people do go overboard on occasion, I relish the exchange of ideas, the interplay between members, etc. And besides - if the people who think they could do a better job than Petrie end up being wrong, it's always fun to see how they justify it (if we ever see them again).
IMHO, it's all good... We're all still Kings fans. It could be worse...a lot worse. We could be Knicks fans.
^I agree that dialogue is good, and it's fine (and fun) to criticize GMs, I just get agitated when people start suggesting that the job is easy or that anybody could do the job. A grip on reality is essential to any good discussion, and people who think they are the next great undiscovered GM don't have one.
You really need to learn to differentiate, nbrans. Saying that the man's job isn't brain surgery isn't the same as saying that it's easy. Saying that you don't need to be a genius isn't the same as saying that you don't need to be knowledgeable.
And saying that there are probably some people on this board smart enough to do his job (almost definitely at least five, given how many well-educated people from all walks of life post here) isn't the same as saying anybody can do it. If you want to admit that you're not smart enough for the job, be my guest; truth be told, I'm probably not either. But, unlike you and BonziFan, I'm not prepared to say that nobody here is.
And saying that there are probably some people on this board smart enough to do his job (almost definitely at least five, given how many well-educated people from all walks of life post here) isn't the same as saying anybody can do it. If you want to admit that you're not smart enough for the job, be my guest; truth be told, I'm probably not either. But, unlike you and BonziFan, I'm not prepared to say that nobody here is.
Anyone got any good kings videos for us to watch while we wait....I've been waiting for the "A Team Come True" video to be finished so I can watch it.
Oh yeah, I never saw the Kings vs Jazz playoffs or Kings vs Phoenix Series
Oh yeah, I never saw the Kings vs Jazz playoffs or Kings vs Phoenix Series
Huh, knowledgeable is a special skill, from when.
I cant believe I am defending Slim here
Carpenter has a skill, computer technicians have a skill and chefs have a special skill. You and me are knowledgeable in basketball but maybe not skilled enough to play the game in the nba.
Lets take the example of Slim, a lawyer. Going to college and getting a degree is knowledge but using it in the court and winning consistently is a skill.
A doctor - Knowing how to conduct a brain surgery is knowledge, having practiced that and being good at it is a skill and maybe a special skill.
GP is knowledgeble I guess cos he has been in the industry for long and the maloofs are paying him a lot, does he have a special skill - that is the ?
I cant believe I am defending Slim here
Carpenter has a skill, computer technicians have a skill and chefs have a special skill. You and me are knowledgeable in basketball but maybe not skilled enough to play the game in the nba.
Lets take the example of Slim, a lawyer. Going to college and getting a degree is knowledge but using it in the court and winning consistently is a skill.
A doctor - Knowing how to conduct a brain surgery is knowledge, having practiced that and being good at it is a skill and maybe a special skill.
GP is knowledgeble I guess cos he has been in the industry for long and the maloofs are paying him a lot, does he have a special skill - that is the ?
I'd give anything to read a book written by Geoff Petrie and telling all - after he's retired, of course.
...................
Personally, although some people do go overboard on occasion, I relish the exchange of ideas, the interplay between members, etc. And besides - if the people who think they could do a better job than Petrie end up being wrong, it's always fun to see how they justify it (if we ever see them again).
...................
Personally, although some people do go overboard on occasion, I relish the exchange of ideas, the interplay between members, etc. And besides - if the people who think they could do a better job than Petrie end up being wrong, it's always fun to see how they justify it (if we ever see them again).
It is easy to say that one would do this or that, but I for one don't know the variables for any one transactions let alone any variety of options. We don't know what constraints he or any other GM is working under or what pet peaves the respective owners of different teams have. We have built in bias to make our team better often overlooking the very reasons the other team wouldn't. We don't know what agents aren't worth a damn or even if an agent has blacklisted a team or vice-versa. On skills, there is much more than knowledge. One not only has to be knowledgable about the players but how the players fit in together, what can and can't be done, but one also has to be very adept in personal skills and so on.
In terms of Slim, I think he has a valid underlying point. The last few years haven't been Petrie's best. The team has been on a downward trend for some time now. However, having said that I believe a lot of that has had to do with what mode the team has been in. The team has been in a cost cutting mode for several years now. Petrie is like most all GMs, being in a cost cutting mode doesn't bode well to what is put on the floor. I don't know if there are many, if any, good examples of a team going from the high end on salaries down to the middle of the pack and still continue fielding a competitive team. In my view, what Petrie does going forward (including how this season goes) will indicate if he is just a good GM that got lucky or still deserving (like I think he does) the description of being a very good GM. I think he is better than most to recover from mistakes or for when things don't go as planned.
So many questions that can't be answered until they start playing again. Too many variables and changes to really have any sense how the team will do. I see several positives and the one big loss of Bonzi, yet I'm not sure if the positives are enough.
Erm, okay...
But truth be told? I was trying to be a peacemaker in all this. Some people are getting way too upset over a few comments on a message board that aren't profane, they aren't bashing per se, and they don't break any of the rules of this forum.
I can see all sides of this issue. Heck, I've been on each of the sides at one point or another. It's TDOS. People are on edge and because there's not that much to talk about there's a tendency for some to really take umbrage at things they would normally just read and not think twice about.
But truth be told? I was trying to be a peacemaker in all this. Some people are getting way too upset over a few comments on a message board that aren't profane, they aren't bashing per se, and they don't break any of the rules of this forum.
I can see all sides of this issue. Heck, I've been on each of the sides at one point or another. It's TDOS. People are on edge and because there's not that much to talk about there's a tendency for some to really take umbrage at things they would normally just read and not think twice about.
That depends, Brad Miller trade is something maybe LB is happy about and GP is not happy about. We have seen so many people here ripping Brad here for being unable to jump above 3 inches and letting opposing guards snatch rebounds from him.
Artest is a trade that LB was very happy about and GP took a chance with him when no other GM would touch him and when Artest was on the block for a real long time before Sacto took him.
I dont know if you are talking about any other trades, but these are the ones that come to mind. There are a few times when people get lucky and they look like a genius and other times they look like idiots when things dont go well.
Jerry West was supposed to be a genius and everyone was saying that he is the best ever for assembling that last dynasty, I say that he was knowledgeble and that is all. I am sure he knew that Shaq was coming to town and he did the leg work for that, or maybe I am wrong and west took a chance and got lucky. Dont tell me that he had this psycho skill to know where Shaq would go after he had just been to the finals with that orlando team. Even after assembling that team they won nothing untill PJ showed up. Does it mean that West means nothing to that dynasty or does it mean that PJ happened to be at the right place to collect three more rings.
I see GP as a person who rolled the dice a lot earlier on with many of the trades that he did earlier on, and he got lucky with many of them during that 2002 run. I am not sure if he knew webber would turn his career around , maybe he did and if he did I dont think it was a skill it was knowledge. Maybe talking to Webber and understanding him or maybe talking to others and understanding the situation he was in, I am not sure if he had any special skill to know that webber would be a success.
I am not sure if he knew that Peja would be that good, maybe he did and if he did then it would mean that he had a good core of european scouts that gave him that information.
I am not sure if he knew that Vlade will become that center piece for the franchise, I am not even sure if Vlade knew that this would happen. As I understand Vlade wanted to be in Cali and since Lakers had shaq, Sacto was his other choice.
Artest is a trade that LB was very happy about and GP took a chance with him when no other GM would touch him and when Artest was on the block for a real long time before Sacto took him.
I dont know if you are talking about any other trades, but these are the ones that come to mind. There are a few times when people get lucky and they look like a genius and other times they look like idiots when things dont go well.
Jerry West was supposed to be a genius and everyone was saying that he is the best ever for assembling that last dynasty, I say that he was knowledgeble and that is all. I am sure he knew that Shaq was coming to town and he did the leg work for that, or maybe I am wrong and west took a chance and got lucky. Dont tell me that he had this psycho skill to know where Shaq would go after he had just been to the finals with that orlando team. Even after assembling that team they won nothing untill PJ showed up. Does it mean that West means nothing to that dynasty or does it mean that PJ happened to be at the right place to collect three more rings.
I see GP as a person who rolled the dice a lot earlier on with many of the trades that he did earlier on, and he got lucky with many of them during that 2002 run. I am not sure if he knew webber would turn his career around , maybe he did and if he did I dont think it was a skill it was knowledge. Maybe talking to Webber and understanding him or maybe talking to others and understanding the situation he was in, I am not sure if he had any special skill to know that webber would be a success.
I am not sure if he knew that Peja would be that good, maybe he did and if he did then it would mean that he had a good core of european scouts that gave him that information.
I am not sure if he knew that Vlade will become that center piece for the franchise, I am not even sure if Vlade knew that this would happen. As I understand Vlade wanted to be in Cali and since Lakers had shaq, Sacto was his other choice.
????
Being knowledgeable about a specific industry or business is certainly a "special skill". And people like GP are often paid very well for that. This is getting into semantics as it often does with you . Too bad you cannot look up "special skill" in the dictionary.
Being knowledgeable about a specific industry or business is certainly a "special skill". And people like GP are often paid very well for that. This is getting into semantics as it often does with you
. Too bad you cannot look up "special skill" in the dictionary.
So, in other words, a special skill would be a learned ability that distinguishes you from everybody else, whereas being knowledgeable is simply the state of having knowledge. So it's possible to have knowledge, and be knowledgeable, without that knowledge distinguishing you in any particular way. Which is decidedly not the same as having a special skill. I contend that Petrie, while perhaps extremely knowledgeable, does not possess any special skills that make him uniquely qualified to do the job.
So... who can't look up what in the dictionary?
