Keegan “KEEGAN MURRAY” Murray

SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#661
#661
Keegan really isn't playing that badly offensively when you get down the nuts and bolts of it. Lately he has been struggling but over the year he's not that far behind his typical marks. The thing about Keegan is how much him hitting his shots at the middle road of year 1 and year 2 would actually do. Probably the biggest thing would be teams opening up the floor more but if Keegan kept at about this same 10-12 FGA per game average he's had since year 1 (and unless Fox or DeRozan start taking a back seat it's likely to stay this way) and hit 45% overall and 38% from 3, you're only talking roughly 0.4 more 3's per game. That means he's getting you roughly 1-2 more points per game on average. It would definitely help but I think more of the knocks on Keegan are the same ones previous players like Jason Thompson had. Perhaps people set the bar a little too high and didn't realize that even if Keegan were a superstar level talent, 12 FGA's ain't getting him there? He's been being developed into a 3 and D player this whole time and it's working.
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#662
#662
SacTownKid said:
Keegan really isn't playing that badly offensively when you get down the nuts and bolts of it. Lately he has been struggling but over the year he's not that far behind his typical marks. The thing about Keegan is how much him hitting his shots at the middle road of year 1 and year 2 would actually do. Probably the biggest thing would be teams opening up the floor more but if Keegan kept at about this same 10-12 FGA per game average he's had since year 1 (and unless Fox or DeRozan start taking a back seat it's likely to stay this way) and hit 45% overall and 38% from 3, you're only talking roughly 0.4 more 3's per game. That means he's getting you roughly 1-2 more points per game on average. It would definitely help but I think more of the knocks on Keegan are the same ones previous players like Jason Thompson had. Perhaps people set the bar a little too high and didn't realize that even if Keegan were a superstar level talent, 12 FGA's ain't getting him there? He's been being developed into a 3 and D player this whole time and it's working.
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The biggest concern to me, is how his shooting has looked. The accuracy has been well off, much of the time. It's one thing if you're missing all around the rim, but completely missing the cylinder often...is concerning for a world class shooter.

Something has been noticeably different so far. We just hope it is a bad spell, where maybe he's had an extra thought or two that he's tried in an effort to take his game up to another level, that isn't translating to games. That's always the risk with trying new things, when you've reached a certain level of success
 
sono

sono

Starter
#664
#664
iowamcnabb said:
Just wanted to insert one silver lining on this awful day. Keegan had a nice game, was aggressive, cut well, and took the shots he should have. We can live with the 3s not dropping if he does everything else. Tough one coming up for him tomorrow.
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I wonder if it affects the rest when your primary deep shooter has been off. I with ShastaKingsFan, he's not just missing a bit but way off is very concerning.
 
coolhandluke

coolhandluke

Starter
#668
#668
Capt. Factorial said:
There is literally one player in the NBA that could pull off that dunk and then turn around and head back up the floor without stunting.
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Reminds me of Peja's reaction after shooting a three that hits the bottom of the net. Never threw up the three finger celebration. Sometimes, Peja would let a satisfied smile on his face before running back but Keegan always stays in terminator mode moving on to his next mission.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#670
#670
iowamcnabb said:
Deuce and Mo said that Keegan runs 2.94 miles a game, first in the NBA. I know we have seen the most miles run stat in the forum before but 3 miles a game is insane. A reminder of how good of shape you need to be in to play NBA basketball
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He's 2nd in minutes played and 6th in MPG. While taking the toughest defensive assignment on the floor for pretty much every single one of those minutes; he never gets to go hide on a corner shooter anymore.

So when you start to factor that in, it makes sense that his legs might not be the same on his shooting and that explains some of his struggles.
 
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ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#671
#671
The_Jamal said:
He's 2nd in minutes played and 6th in MPG. While taking the toughest defensive assignment on the floor for pretty much every single one of those minutes; he never gets to go hide on a corner shooter anymore.

So when you start to factor that in, it makes sense that his legs might not be the same on his shooting and that explains some of his struggles.
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Early in the season? It would be very concerning, if this is the actual reason why
 
S

Srzly

G-League
#674
#674
ShastaKingsFan said:
That his legs are so fatigued that he can't shoot, this early and from the beginning of the season? Normally when searching for potential reasons, that would be a later season possibility
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But the amount Keegan is running isn’t normal so “normally” doesn’t really apply.

I think his point is, if you ran 3 miles chasing someone on defense and then had to shoot a basketball the next night or in 2 nights, while having to run 3 miles again, would you have the same leg strength? It seems plausible that it could have an impact on shooting.
 
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ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#675
#675
Srzly said:
But the amount Keegan is running isn’t normal so “normally” doesn’t really apply.

I think his point is, if you ran 3 miles chasing someone on defense and then had to shoot a basketball the next night or in 3 nights, run 3 miles again, would you have the same leg strength? It seems feasible.
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As a key 3 and D player, it is normal. Keon Ellis runs all over the place as well....and his shot if anything has improved. I'm not ready to say that it's the main issue with Murray's shot.

Point being, if it's a huge issue at the beginning of the season, what it would be like late in a season and in a playoff series? So if it turns that leg fatigue really is the issue with his shot, then what? You can't have a 3 and D starter who can't shoot and expect to get anywhere.

The good news is that with Keon in the starting lineup, it should reduce how many guards he has to chase around.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#676
#676
ShastaKingsFan said:
As a key 3 and D player, it is normal. Keon Ellis runs all over the place as well....and his shot if anything has improved. I'm not ready to say that it's the main issue with Murray's shot.

Point being, if it's a huge issue at the beginning of the season, what it would be like late in a season and in a playoff series? So if it turns that leg fatigue really is the issue with his shot, then what? You can't have a 3 and D starter who can't shoot and expect to get anywhere.

The good news is that with Keon in the starting lineup, it should reduce how many guards he has to chase around.
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Keon doesn't have the 2nd most minutes in the NBA or isn't 6th in MPG. One benefit of more Keon though would be maybe Keegan could take a softer defensive assignment and leave more energy for the offensive end.

Look, I'm not saying it's a good excuse, but in terms of what Keegan was asked to do as a rookie (stand in the corner on D and hide) vs now (literally take the toughest assignment for 38 MPG) requires a completely different level of conditioning. If you look at pretty much any defense stat that shows quality of opponent, Keegan ranks near the top of the league.

So maybe that's something Brown needs to keep in mind. If you want Keegan taking the toughest assignment every game+get that 3 ball back, maybe get his minutes to like 32-34 rather than 38-40 every game.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#677
#677
iowamcnabb said:
Deuce and Mo said that Keegan runs 2.94 miles a game, first in the NBA. I know we have seen the most miles run stat in the forum before but 3 miles a game is insane. A reminder of how good of shape you need to be in to play NBA basketball
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its part of being a two way player, he's not there right now but since his role is to be THE defensive stopper, the cardio aspect required for this feat will only have to continue to become elevated if he's to improve the shooting/scoring
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#678
#678
The_Jamal said:
Keon doesn't have the 2nd most minutes in the NBA or isn't 6th in MPG. One benefit of more Keon though would be maybe Keegan could take a softer defensive assignment and leave more energy for the offensive end.

Look, I'm not saying it's a good excuse, but in terms of what Keegan was asked to do as a rookie (stand in the corner on D and hide) vs now (literally take the toughest assignment for 38 MPG) requires a completely different level of conditioning. If you look at pretty much any defense stat that shows quality of opponent, Keegan ranks near the top of the league.

So maybe that's something Brown needs to keep in mind. If you want Keegan taking the toughest assignment every game+get that 3 ball back, maybe get his minutes to like 32-34 rather than 38-40 every game.
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Yeah, I'd rather have his 40% average back. If they determine that it's really the reason, then let somebody else take the best wing sometimes
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#680
#680
ShastaKingsFan said:
Yeah, I'd rather have his 40% average back. If they determine that it's really the reason, then let somebody else take the best wing sometimes
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There's something to this. The issue with Keegan is since he's the main POA defender he's having to check quick guard's and is starting to beat up on hard screens. It's taking it's toll. Keegan should almost have to wear football pads some nights.
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#681
#681
SacTownKid said:
There's something to this. The issue with Keegan is since he's the main POA defender he's having to check quick guard's and is starting to beat up on hard screens. It's taking it's toll. Keegan should almost have to wear football pads some nights.
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As bad of a season that Barnes had overall, he would often times guard the best wing player. Definitely during Murray's first season, when Barnes had a better year
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#682
#682
HndsmCelt said:
It’s legitimately looking like a time that Keegan might consider seeing a sports psychologist if he isn’t seeing one already. Something’s wrong there.
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the first time we see this version of him was after his grandma had a medical emergency at a game his rookie year (Nov). Saw it again last year in November. Then after starting the year averaging 15 points and being insane on defense through 8 games we see it again in November with only a couple good games. Something is not right there
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#683
#683
I can understand why Keegan only attacks when he sees that he has a clean path to the basket and only shoots when he feels that he's got a high percentage shot. Those are good instincts to have most of the time. The frustration sets in for me when he does have a matchup advantage but he doesn't trust his handle or his ability to beat the help defender so he immediately picks up his dribble, turns his back to the basket, and looks to pass. Or when he's open on the weakside and just stands still instead of moving into open space to create a better passing lane. Also, he's on the floor a lot more now as the second big so he's got to take more responsibility as a screen setter and roll man not just a catch a shoot guy.

There are plenty of guys in the NBA who drive their fans and teammates crazy with their boneheaded mistakes. Every team probably has a guy or two like that. Keegan is in the less common category of NBA players who play mostly mistake free basketball and would be considered solid role players if they didn't occasionally sprinkle in a monster take and statement dunk, an iso fadeaway jumper over a tough defender, or a 47 point three point shooting master class. It's those glimpses of something more which make the 2 point or 3 point outings so frustrating.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#684
#684
Watching the game he was getting rebounds and playing good 4th or 5th starter ball. He doesn’t suck or warrant the “this season is his fault” that he is getting. Again this is where Devin better be him because most of the game Keegan was taking on scoring guards And getting run ragged out there.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#685
#685
pdxKingsFan said:
Watching the game he was getting rebounds and playing good 4th or 5th starter ball. He doesn’t suck or warrant the “this season is his fault” that he is getting. Again this is where Devin better be him because most of the game Keegan was taking on scoring guards And getting run ragged out there.
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if Devin follows the same path as Kevin, we should have him for about 35-38 games. He does have a few advantages over typical rookies: Dad played so he grew up in the Nba life, no big adjustment. He is an older prospect with 3 years of college ball, those types are more likely to contribute early. He has been with the team all season and is already shooting and knows the systems.

I know people aren’t expecting much but I fully expect him to be a difference maker right away, we are talking about one of the best 5 defenders in college ball last year. I can’t wait to see him on court, he is a natural energy booster
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#687
#687
Folsomkingsfan said:
There's 62 players in the league that have taken 100 or more 3's so far this season. Keegan Murray is 61st among them in 3p%. With only Kevin Huerter having a worse percentage lol
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It's hard to believe that we somehow have the two worst high-volume shooters in the league and the 4th worst bench scoring output and are anywhere close to .500.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#688
#688
pdxKingsFan said:
Watching the game he was getting rebounds and playing good 4th or 5th starter ball. He doesn’t suck or warrant the “this season is his fault” that he is getting. Again this is where Devin better be him because most of the game Keegan was taking on scoring guards And getting run ragged out there.
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That's the thing though, Devin would have to play like prime Jordan to get past Brown's rookie red tape haha. And that's just not a fair expectation. Hopefully fans don't put much pressure on a rookie that has missed half a season to save this team. If it's even in that spot at that point then something else is an issue, clearly. I do think Devin can be someone that can play from day 1, but like Monte said, this is about the long term with this last pick.
 
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