[Game] Kings vs Raptors 11/6/24 7pm PST/10pm EST

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DDR is the key here. Love Fox but he's streaky and inconsistent. DDR is just that calming presence that can go and get a bucket when it's needed. No one else on the team can do that nearly as consistently as he can.

Keon's defense is a huge key as well. Brown is not going to be able to hold him back for very much longer. His metrics show that he is the best roleplayer on the team and really needs to either be playing more minutes or starting.
I thought Keon played his offensive role to perfection too. Moved the ball on offense, hit a few shots had a few creation plays. Wasn't afraid to pull. When that happens, hes just impossible to keep off the floor
 
DDR is the key here. Love Fox but he's streaky and inconsistent. DDR is just that calming presence that can go and get a bucket when it's needed. No one else on the team can do that nearly as consistently as he can.

Keon's defense is a huge key as well. Brown is not going to be able to hold him back for very much longer. His metrics show that he is the best roleplayer on the team and really needs to either be playing more minutes or starting.
I think a really underrated aspect of DDR is takes pressure off Fox to carry such a huge offensive load that he can really focus in on his defense. Hes off to the best start of his career on that end and don't think it's really that close.
 
I think a really underrated aspect of DDR is takes pressure off Fox to carry such a huge offensive load that he can really focus in on his defense. Hes off to the best start of his career on that end and don't think it's really that close.
So far I haven't really been impressed with our "defensive coordinator" Luke Loucks. I know the numbers are pretty solid so far but the eye test looks pretty bad as far as wide open 3s for the opposition goes. I think playing bad teams and players missing wide open shots has skewed the numbers a bit but we'll see in the next couple months. There's still a ton of cheating inside for no reason at all while leaving the corner 3 wide open.

Really need our guys to start hitting their 3 pointers as well. It's gotten downright annoying at this point. I'm almost surprised when anyone on our team connects on a 3. We're 1st in FT% (jinx), 2nd in 2pt% and 26th in 3pt%. Those first two percentages are really carrying the offense but I'm not sure that will hold all year. Really need to at least get our 3pt% into the teens at least. Keegan, Fox, Monk and Lyles, we're looking at you.

One nice thing is we seem to have that extra gear now. I remember in the Cousins days we would keep things close and then teams would just tighten up the defense halfway through the 4th and leave us behind. We did exactly that to Toronto last night. I'd like to see the starters do that against bad teams from the beginning so they wind up playing 30min instead of 38.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Agree, but I think Deebo has developed a skill and craftiness in generating those calls. Lots of feints, spin moves, getting his defender out of position where the refs can’t swallow their whistles. Not saying Fox and Sabonis haven’t gotten their fair share of calls, but they can learn from Deebo. It’s mostly the stuff that also gets SGA, Brunson, Luka their calls.
Fox has a false sense of pride that has made him an anti-foul merchant. He's also crafty enough that he can minimize the contact that he does take which allows refs to swallow their whistles instead of giving the and-1. While that is nice from a not having to root for James Harden standpoint, it has cost us dearly in more than one game.

DDR has been quite enjoyable to watch thus far. I think like Fox, he'd prefer to actually make his shot and not draw cheap contact, but he is much better at making sure the contact is recorded and getting the whistle while doing so. It's just so cool to have an old-head that can help the (not so) young fellas who also is playing at an extremely high level.
 
So far I haven't really been impressed with our "defensive coordinator" Luke Loucks. I know the numbers are pretty solid so far but the eye test looks pretty bad as far as wide open 3s for the opposition goes. I think playing bad teams and players missing wide open shots has skewed the numbers a bit but we'll see in the next couple months. There's still a ton of cheating inside for no reason at all while leaving the corner 3 wide open.

Really need our guys to start hitting their 3 pointers as well. It's gotten downright annoying at this point. I'm almost surprised when anyone on our team connects on a 3. We're 1st in FT% (jinx), 2nd in 2pt% and 26th in 3pt%. Those first two percentages are really carrying the offense but I'm not sure that will hold all year. Really need to at least get our 3pt% into the teens at least. Keegan, Fox, Monk and Lyles, we're looking at you.

One nice thing is we seem to have that extra gear now. I remember in the Cousins days we would keep things close and then teams would just tighten up the defense halfway through the 4th and leave us behind. We did exactly that to Toronto last night. I'd like to see the starters do that against bad teams from the beginning so they wind up playing 30min instead of 38.
Huerter let it slip in an interview, that their defensive focus is to take away the inside and force the ball out to the 3 point line. I was shocked when he said that. Would seem to indicate a lack of team self awareness, if this is actually true
 
Agree, but I think Deebo has developed a skill and craftiness in generating those calls. Lots of feints, spin moves, getting his defender out of position where the refs can’t swallow their whistles. Not saying Fox and Sabonis haven’t gotten their fair share of calls, but they can learn from Deebo. It’s mostly the stuff that also gets SGA, Brunson, Luka their calls.
He's one of the best shooters of all time, going up and over an out stretched hand. That's the main reason he gets fouled. They're not just "giving him calls", but he actually takes more quality shots than most with a hand right next to his
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
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Huerter let it slip in an interview, that their defensive focus is to take away the inside and force the ball out to the 3 point line. I was shocked when he said that. Would seem to indicate a lack of team self awareness, if this is actually true
I recall seeing that. I imagine the philosophy is more nuanced but it certainly runs opposite to the trendlines of the modern NBA being so three focused you can't really afford to make it easy for the other team to shoot 40%+.
 
Huerter let it slip in an interview, that their defensive focus is to take away the inside and force the ball out to the 3 point line. I was shocked when he said that. Would seem to indicate a lack of team self awareness, if this is actually true
I'm curious to see how this philosophy plays out in the next couple months. They're 11th in DRTG right now, which is probably the best they've been in years. Is that because of the philosophy or the easy schedule so far? We'll find out.

I'm digging the 5th in ORTG while shooting horribly from 3. I think they can keep that up when the schedule gets tougher and their 3pt percentages average out.
 
Huerter let it slip in an interview, that their defensive focus is to take away the inside and force the ball out to the 3 point line. I was shocked when he said that. Would seem to indicate a lack of team self awareness, if this is actually true
We lack interior shot blocker and Domas while strong is not big interior presence so it doesn’t sound all that crazy to try mitigate the interior and bet on subpar shooters beating you at the 3. Only problem is so far the subpar shooters like Boucher are making them and we are missing ours.
 
We lack interior shot blocker and Domas while strong is not big interior presence so it doesn’t sound all that crazy to try mitigate the interior and bet on subpar shooters beating you at the 3. Only problem is so far the subpar shooters like Boucher are making them and we are missing ours.
if the top 11 defensive rating can hold I can live with the strategy even though those wide open corner threes make me pull my hair out. We cant be 26th in three point percentage with that strategy though.
 
We lack interior shot blocker and Domas while strong is not big interior presence so it doesn’t sound all that crazy to try mitigate the interior and bet on subpar shooters beating you at the 3. Only problem is so far the subpar shooters like Boucher are making them and we are missing ours.
For whatever reason, they've consistently been hurt by opponents 3 point shooting since Brown got there
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I find it curious that both Heurter and Murray shot around 40% from 3 in their first year with the Kings, then dropped off precipitously after that. Is it just a coincidence?
 
I find it curious that both Heurter and Murray shot around 40% from 3 in their first year with the Kings, then dropped off precipitously after that. Is it just a coincidence?
I always assumed that the novelty of the Kings offense in 2022 was inevitably going to lead to other teams developing countermeasures
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Did teams develop countermeasures or did we run away from what worked in 22/23 last season? Granted Huerter had a very bad year on his own, missing plenty of open looks. But I think Keegan was asked to do more.
 
Did teams develop countermeasures or did we run away from what worked in 22/23 last season? Granted Huerter had a very bad year on his own, missing plenty of open looks. But I think Keegan was asked to do more.
And Kevin still shot 36 percent from three which is considered very good efficiency. He also has historically been around 38 percent, which is what I’m hoping for him this year. If he does that on high volume we will be in good shape
 
I find it curious that both Heurter and Murray shot around 40% from 3 in their first year with the Kings, then dropped off precipitously after that. Is it just a coincidence?
Could just be both guys over achieving to an extent.

Huerter had a career year with us. His percentages this year and last are just slightly under his career average before his career year but nothing egregiously bad. I don't think it's fair to expect him to keep repeating his career year.

Hard to say with Keegan. Basically shot 40% his last year in college. 41% his rookie year with us. He was pretty much just tasked with wide open straight line drives and open catch and shoot opportunities. Now he has a bigger overall role in the offense and he's put on a decent amount of muscle. Hard to say if he just had a couple of lucky years or if it's something that he needs to get back to concentrating on in the offseason.

Monk is also a guy who had 2 good years from beyond the arc with CHA and LA but hasn't been all that great outside of that. I think shot selection has a lot to do with it. He also essentially doubled up his assists with us compared to those two great shooting years, which means he's doing more ball handling and less catching and shooting. Even with the drop, he's a better overall player the way we're using him than he was as a spot shooter and non essential ball handler.
 
Did teams develop countermeasures or did we run away from what worked in 22/23 last season? Granted Huerter had a very bad year on his own, missing plenty of open looks. But I think Keegan was asked to do more.
Probably a bit of both, but on a per 36 basis, Keegan and Kevin's volume from 3 is basically consistent for all of the years they've been here. (Keegan shooting 1 fewer 3 per 36 this year is the largest change)
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
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Probably a bit of both, but on a per 36 basis, Keegan and Kevin's volume from 3 is basically consistent for all of the years they've been here. (Keegan shooting 1 fewer 3 per 36 this year is the largest change)
IIRC Keegan was hitting above expected from above the break but poorly on corner 3s which are the shots most players are expected to hit so that also skewed perceptions of his play last year. His big stride was defensively and if he is going to start eating rebounds now I'm not going to worry about his 3pt play as much especially with DeMar here, as long as we get him enough to hit a big shot when asked.
 
So you think that Heurter and Murray have had a lot fewer open shots than in their first year?
Whether open or not, I think the diet was more difficult last year. I don't remember Keegan doing a lot of movement into his shots in 2022, (
)

Nowadays I think he has to work a bit harder to get open.

I don't have the same intuition about Kevin Huerter, but it might also be true
 
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I'm curious to see how this philosophy plays out in the next couple months. They're 11th in DRTG right now, which is probably the best they've been in years. Is that because of the philosophy or the easy schedule so far? We'll find out.

I'm digging the 5th in ORTG while shooting horribly from 3. I think they can keep that up when the schedule gets tougher and their 3pt percentages average out.
yeah the next 5 games are going to be very telling
 
Could just be both guys over achieving to an extent.

Huerter had a career year with us. His percentages this year and last are just slightly under his career average before his career year but nothing egregiously bad. I don't think it's fair to expect him to keep repeating his career year.

Hard to say with Keegan. Basically shot 40% his last year in college. 41% his rookie year with us. He was pretty much just tasked with wide open straight line drives and open catch and shoot opportunities. Now he has a bigger overall role in the offense and he's put on a decent amount of muscle. Hard to say if he just had a couple of lucky years or if it's something that he needs to get back to concentrating on in the offseason.

Monk is also a guy who had 2 good years from beyond the arc with CHA and LA but hasn't been all that great outside of that. I think shot selection has a lot to do with it. He also essentially doubled up his assists with us compared to those two great shooting years, which means he's doing more ball handling and less catching and shooting. Even with the drop, he's a better overall player the way we're using him than he was as a spot shooter and non essential ball handler.
Monk and Huerter shoot a lot of deep 3's, from well behind the line. Can't be helping their %. I'd like to see them be more selective, but at the same time I'm sure they feel a lot of responsibility for getting the team to a certain number of attempts.

I've always wondered if it would help the team overall, to not take 3's that are more than ~2 feet behind the line, unless it's late in the clock. Does "spacing the floor" always have to include 29 foot attempts?
 
Monk and Huerter shoot a lot of deep 3's, from well behind the line. Can't be helping their %. I'd like to see them be more selective, but at the same time I'm sure they feel a lot of responsibility for getting the team to a certain number of attempts.

I've always wondered if it would help the team overall, to not take 3's that are more than ~2 feet behind the line, unless it's late in the clock. Does "spacing the floor" always have to include 29 foot attempts?
Monk has been the biggest disappointment of the season thus far. Poor shooting, some horrible decision making, and surprising selfishness has led to some very subpar play. Our bench is extremely weak and with his poor play, it’s been a very noticeable issue.
 
What are you talking about? Monk has been a spark in almost every game.
He hasn’t been playing quite like the Monk of last season. His assists are down and so are his shooting percentages, he’s barely cracking 30% on threes. Last game alone he made multiple horrible decisions on fast breaks. Other games it’s threes from way out that are poorly timed. Him and Fox seem to be forcing a little bit.
 
He hasn’t been playing quite like the Monk of last season. His assists are down and so are his shooting percentages, he’s barely cracking 30% on threes. Last game alone he made multiple horrible decisions on fast breaks. Other games it’s threes from way out that are poorly timed. Him and Fox seem to be forcing a little bit.
Im not sure that they were prepared for DeRozan to be the #1 option and it has their rhythm off a bit. I think they will settle in
 
the less made threes overall could kind of help negate it if the free throw trips continue throughout all 82
It's hard to sustain this type of offense, without wear and tear throughout the season. I'm not advocating it, they are good shooters, I'm sure when they start hitting from the downtown, attacking the rim would be less or vice versa. What I like about it is it makes the offense more versatile, which wasn't the case last season.
 
Im not sure that they were prepared for DeRozan to be the #1 option and it has their rhythm off a bit. I think they will settle in
I’m not worried about Fox, he’s just overthinking things right now and that will indeed settle down as the season progresses. Just hope Monk follows suit as well.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
It's hard to sustain this type of offense, without wear and tear throughout the season. I'm not advocating it, they are good shooters, I'm sure when they start hitting from the downtown, attacking the rim would be less or vice versa. What I like about it is it makes the offense more versatile, which wasn't the case last season.
the versatility is key here, if they go back to spray three's without much infusion of in and out, then they are toast.
 
yeah the next 5 games are going to be very telling
2 vs the Suns, 1 vs Minny. Excited to see those Suns match-ups for sure to get a good litmus test at where we're at.

I think we've done an excellent job at stockpiling wins so far vs inferior teams, even on an atrocious travel schedule. These sort of games cost us the top 6 spot last season. That always had to be step 1 this season to progress from last year. So far, so good. Now have to show you can at least hang a .500 record vs these better squads. Beat up the bad teams, .500 vs the good ones and you'll run into a 50 win season.
 
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