Looking ahead to the 2023 Draft
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
The biggest difference between Keegan and Kris remains the fact they shoot with opposite hands despite both being left handed but this workout video also kinda highlights more of the differences. Kris is probably a bit better of a vertical athlete (or he's at least a little more willing to slam it than Keegs is) but his shooting stroke while extremely effective doesn't have quite the base that Keegan's does and he's got a little more stiffness in the hips moving to his spots even just in this open court setting. He also remains skinnier than Keegan.
Not trying to pick a fight here, but rather just commenting on a few things you’ve said here that I find rather odd and contradictory.
First, you dislike the thread because there are a variety of different opinions? Or you just feel that, other than Baja, nobody else holds an informed or qualified opinion? If the latter is true, wouldn’t that include yourself?? And if so, you‘re being quite hypocritical in criticizing others.
Secondly, I got news for you — even though Baja seems to immerse himself in college basketball and player analysis more than most on this site, he also is still an “armchair”.
And while I too value his opinion on draft and player related analysis, I also value the opinions of several others I’ve read here over the years. And they offer more than just throwing out random guesses.
First, you dislike the thread because there are a variety of different opinions? Or you just feel that, other than Baja, nobody else holds an informed or qualified opinion? If the latter is true, wouldn’t that include yourself?? And if so, you‘re being quite hypocritical in criticizing others.
Secondly, I got news for you — even though Baja seems to immerse himself in college basketball and player analysis more than most on this site, he also is still an “armchair”.
And while I too value his opinion on draft and player related analysis, I also value the opinions of several others I’ve read here over the years. And they offer more than just throwing out random guesses.
OLIVIER MAXENCE PROSPER IS LISTED AT 31 ON ESPNS BIGBOARD ---- OVER TRAYCE JACKSON DAVIS!!! HA!
The guy who I've been vouching for us to take with the 54th pick for months and months and months, who i barely hear a peep about around here, is now projected higher than the 23 year old many wanna take in the first round!!!
HA! He was definitely barely projected in the top100 when I started mentioning him around here, just cuz I saw so much Marquette, like 20 games, and was a fan of his since recruitment at Clemson.
so many of my favorites trending out of our range but its like there's reinforcements on the way leapfrogging the 2nd round.
Coulibaly trending out of range... up to 21..
Bufkin trending even further out.. up to 17..
Nnaji continues to push higher every update he's now at 23, and he's leapfrogged Dereck Lively, whos now back in range!
Kris Murray stands right at 24 on our pick, quite the coincidence, or is it?
Podziemski trending out of our 2nd rd range, up to 31, he's higher than GG JAckson! ---- Honestly IDK what Givony's been smoking the past few months to have had Terquavion SMith higher, must be outcho mind.
Ben Sheppard at 36!!! could he be in play at 37?!
TRISTAN VUKCEVIC up to 37!!!!!!!!!! He overtakes Durisic and Durisic drops like 15 spots to 59. Julian Phillips is also sitting at 58 --- I think that might speak on if the feeling is those 2 will pull out.
Jordan Walsh leapfrogs up 15+ spots to 41!
Da'Ron Holmes continues to claw his way up every update, now sitting at 49 after a strong combine.
Kalkbrenner drops to 62! Maybe we can get him at 54 or better yet undrafted, for him team fit is gonna matter more than how high the selection is. Zach Edey is marching slowly up the board, he looked good and fluid at the combine though he's at 48 now.
Seth Lundy strong combine looks like a two-way player, he's up to 51.
Zvmonir Ivisic debuts in the top 100 at 76!
Adama Sanogo overtakes Oscar Tshiebwe! even if just by one spot, I've been calling that one for sometime, I simply dont understand why you'd take Tshiebwe over him when Sanogo is shooting the ball like that.
Omari Moore jumps from the 80's to the 60's he's almost in draft range!
Colin Castleton up from 80 to 68!
Chris Livingston makes a huge jump, I think he was in the 90's now he's at 66!
Hunter Tyson cracks the top 60! I did a post many weeks back about a bunch of sleepers and 2 are now projected in range with Tyson and Bobi Klintman.
Keyontae Johnson, Dillon Mitchell and Kobe Brown get leapfrogged by Jalen Wilson! Winner. horrible combine measurements and he moves up because surely all the scouts in attendance were talking how much they liked how he competes.
I'll tell you what if the board plays out like this we're gonna have a chance at a decent wing at 54!
Strawther sitting there at 55 is hilarious, somehow for months and months and months we've been discussing him at higher picks and he keeps falling back to that range on this list.
So really our options we've been going over for months at 37 have mostly been decimated... The quality of the picks at 54 is improving though, but that could change with withdrawals.. k im done gl out there kings fans
The guy who I've been vouching for us to take with the 54th pick for months and months and months, who i barely hear a peep about around here, is now projected higher than the 23 year old many wanna take in the first round!!!
HA! He was definitely barely projected in the top100 when I started mentioning him around here, just cuz I saw so much Marquette, like 20 games, and was a fan of his since recruitment at Clemson.
so many of my favorites trending out of our range but its like there's reinforcements on the way leapfrogging the 2nd round.
Coulibaly trending out of range... up to 21..
Bufkin trending even further out.. up to 17..
Nnaji continues to push higher every update he's now at 23, and he's leapfrogged Dereck Lively, whos now back in range!
Kris Murray stands right at 24 on our pick, quite the coincidence, or is it?
Podziemski trending out of our 2nd rd range, up to 31, he's higher than GG JAckson! ---- Honestly IDK what Givony's been smoking the past few months to have had Terquavion SMith higher, must be outcho mind.
Ben Sheppard at 36!!! could he be in play at 37?!
TRISTAN VUKCEVIC up to 37!!!!!!!!!! He overtakes Durisic and Durisic drops like 15 spots to 59. Julian Phillips is also sitting at 58 --- I think that might speak on if the feeling is those 2 will pull out.
Jordan Walsh leapfrogs up 15+ spots to 41!
Da'Ron Holmes continues to claw his way up every update, now sitting at 49 after a strong combine.
Kalkbrenner drops to 62! Maybe we can get him at 54 or better yet undrafted, for him team fit is gonna matter more than how high the selection is. Zach Edey is marching slowly up the board, he looked good and fluid at the combine though he's at 48 now.
Seth Lundy strong combine looks like a two-way player, he's up to 51.
Zvmonir Ivisic debuts in the top 100 at 76!
Adama Sanogo overtakes Oscar Tshiebwe! even if just by one spot, I've been calling that one for sometime, I simply dont understand why you'd take Tshiebwe over him when Sanogo is shooting the ball like that.
Omari Moore jumps from the 80's to the 60's he's almost in draft range!
Colin Castleton up from 80 to 68!
Chris Livingston makes a huge jump, I think he was in the 90's now he's at 66!
Hunter Tyson cracks the top 60! I did a post many weeks back about a bunch of sleepers and 2 are now projected in range with Tyson and Bobi Klintman.
Keyontae Johnson, Dillon Mitchell and Kobe Brown get leapfrogged by Jalen Wilson! Winner. horrible combine measurements and he moves up because surely all the scouts in attendance were talking how much they liked how he competes.
I'll tell you what if the board plays out like this we're gonna have a chance at a decent wing at 54!
Strawther sitting there at 55 is hilarious, somehow for months and months and months we've been discussing him at higher picks and he keeps falling back to that range on this list.
So really our options we've been going over for months at 37 have mostly been decimated... The quality of the picks at 54 is improving though, but that could change with withdrawals.. k im done gl out there kings fans
Last edited:
I think Keegs is the better vertical athlete, but I really have no clue why he stopped dunking in the NBA. He used to dunk regularly at Iowa... just because he could. Keegan made 63 dunks during his final season while Kris only made 17 dunks this season. Dunking was likely a point of emphasis for Kris' workout to show the NBA guys that he can throw it down.
I remember last year there was an article mentioning that Keegan was the only player in college history to have 60 dunks and 60 made 3pters in the same season. Maybe this Keegan guy is special!
Everyone knows that Keegan is better than his brother, but looking at their advanced stats.. Keegan is significantly better in every single category except assists where Kris barely edges him out.
Keegan:
Kris:
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2022&p=Keegan Murray&t=Iowa
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Kris Murray&t=Iowa
I remember last year there was an article mentioning that Keegan was the only player in college history to have 60 dunks and 60 made 3pters in the same season. Maybe this Keegan guy is special!
Everyone knows that Keegan is better than his brother, but looking at their advanced stats.. Keegan is significantly better in every single category except assists where Kris barely edges him out.
Keegan:
Kris:
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2022&p=Keegan Murray&t=Iowa
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Kris Murray&t=Iowa
Wow that's quite the shake up from Givony. There goes 90% of the guys we wanted at 37 lol. I still think we're in solid hands with our draft position. Even if our options at #24 end up being: Lively II, Lewis, Jones, Whitehead, or Podz, I'd still be pretty happy.
Podz is likely going in the 1st after his strong scrimmage showing.
Podz is likely going in the 1st after his strong scrimmage showing.
I wouldn't be mad at all if Kris was our pick. Keegan was a high lottery pick and Kris is slated as a 17-25th type pick for a reason. It would be unrealistic to expect to draft a second Keegan with the 24th pick.
Unless you're the Raptors, you really can't have enough wings. The only two things that worry me about Kris are his lack of lateral foot speed and his shooting. His foot speed is about the same as his brother's and they're both pretty slow. Kris doesn't have to catch up and block from behind abilities that Keegan has but I never watched Kris and thought he was some slouch defensively either. I do have question marks about his shooting. 39% last year off the bench in about half the attempts and 34% this year while being the #1 option. He started the year hot and went ice cold at the end of the year.
FT% is a little worrying but not too bad since he improved. 65% last year and 73% this year. Passable with the improvement but doesn't give you a ton of confidence either.
There's probably going to be a few higher ceiling players available if Kris is on the board when the Kings pick but those players will likely have much lower floors than Kris as well. He's a pretty safe pick if he's available at 24.
Unless you're the Raptors, you really can't have enough wings. The only two things that worry me about Kris are his lack of lateral foot speed and his shooting. His foot speed is about the same as his brother's and they're both pretty slow. Kris doesn't have to catch up and block from behind abilities that Keegan has but I never watched Kris and thought he was some slouch defensively either. I do have question marks about his shooting. 39% last year off the bench in about half the attempts and 34% this year while being the #1 option. He started the year hot and went ice cold at the end of the year.
FT% is a little worrying but not too bad since he improved. 65% last year and 73% this year. Passable with the improvement but doesn't give you a ton of confidence either.
There's probably going to be a few higher ceiling players available if Kris is on the board when the Kings pick but those players will likely have much lower floors than Kris as well. He's a pretty safe pick if he's available at 24.
Pulling Vukcevic after that stellar scrimmage is a smart play and may help the Kings out, if they are eyeing him at 24. I think he will be gone by the Kings 2nd round pick.
Here's an article on Vukcevic:
https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-serbias-tristan-vukcevic
As much time that Kings scouts and coaches has spent scouting Sasha in Europe, I wonder if they also had an eye on Vukcevic too. This would give the Kings an advantage in his scouting over teams that just watched the combine game.
Watching the combine scrimmage and scouting video, I think this kid can become a solid stretch 4 in the NBA. He could be a great fit on this Kings team, next to Fox and Sabonis.
Here's an article on Vukcevic:
https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-serbias-tristan-vukcevic
As much time that Kings scouts and coaches has spent scouting Sasha in Europe, I wonder if they also had an eye on Vukcevic too. This would give the Kings an advantage in his scouting over teams that just watched the combine game.
Watching the combine scrimmage and scouting video, I think this kid can become a solid stretch 4 in the NBA. He could be a great fit on this Kings team, next to Fox and Sabonis.
Last edited:
100%. The fun for me has been comparing myself to the FO to see how I would have done in the same role…
Now I’ll be the first to admit that I probably would have been fired between 2013-2017 with that draft pick history but we would have likely not had such a long playoff drought if I was asked to make the pick
…
My Picks
PG - Fox / Evans / Baldwin
SG - Haliburton / Williams / McLemore / Luwawu
SF - Leonard / Murray / Barnes
PF - Doncic / Anunoby / Vonleh / Giles
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein / Labissiere
Kings Picks
PG - Fox / Evans / Mitchell / Fredette
SG - Haliburton / McLemore / Richardson / Stauskas
SF - Murray / Jackson
PF - Bagley / Giles / Robinson
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein / Labissiere / Papagiannis
Just all part of the fun (or pain depending on how you look at it)
- 2009: We drafted Tyreke Evans (I wanted Tyreke Evans)
- 2010: We drafted DeMarcus Cousins (I wanted DeMarcus Cousins)
- 2011: We drafted Jimmer Fredette (I wanted Kawhi Leonard)
- 2012: We drafted Thomas Robinson (I wanted Harrison Barnes)
- 2013: We drafted Ben McLemore (I wanted Ben McLemore)
- 2014: We drafted Nik Stauskas (I wanted Noah Vonleh)
- 2015: We drafted Willie Cauley-Stein (I wanted Willie Cauley-Stein)
- 2016: We drafted Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson, & Skal Labissiere (I wanted Wade Baldwin, Timothy Luwawu-Cabarrot, & Skal Labissiere)
- 2017: We draft De’Aaron Fox, Justin Jackson, & Harry Giles (I wanted De’Aaron Fox, OG Anunoby, & Harry Giles)
- 2018: We drafted Marvin Bagley (I wanted Luka Doncic)
- 2019: NA - didn’t have a 1st
- 2020: We drafted Tyrese Haliburton (I wanted Tyrese Haliburton)
- 2021: We drafted Davion Mitchell (I wanted Ziare Williams)
- 2022: We drafted Keegan Murray (I wanted Keegan Murray)
Now I’ll be the first to admit that I probably would have been fired between 2013-2017 with that draft pick history but we would have likely not had such a long playoff drought if I was asked to make the pick
…My Picks
PG - Fox / Evans / Baldwin
SG - Haliburton / Williams / McLemore / Luwawu
SF - Leonard / Murray / Barnes
PF - Doncic / Anunoby / Vonleh / Giles
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein / Labissiere
Kings Picks
PG - Fox / Evans / Mitchell / Fredette
SG - Haliburton / McLemore / Richardson / Stauskas
SF - Murray / Jackson
PF - Bagley / Giles / Robinson
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein / Labissiere / Papagiannis
Just all part of the fun (or pain depending on how you look at it)
Yeah! Vukcevic was the surprise. Very skilled big who can really score from anywhere on the floor. Showed some nice passing ability. Day two, the standout was Ben Shepard who had 25 pt's and who played very good defense. Real hustle guy diving for loose balls etc. I believe he had a couple of steals as well. plus he has a smile that will light up a room.
Yep that a solid group to choose from. Podziemski surprised me with his ability to create for others. He solidly played the part of a PG in that scrimmage. I really like Ben Shepard as well and have hopes that he'll be there at 38. The Kids a baller! This is one of the most talented groups in one class that I've seen in a long time. There's going to be a lot of players that go in the 2nd rd that probably deserve to be in the 1st rd.
Well it's all in the eye of the beholder. I don't think the ESPN draft board is the same without Schmidt who went on to become a GM. I've never been a fan of Givony. I remember having a discussion with him at summer league long ago when he wasn't very high on Tyreke Evans, and I was. But that's a story for another time. I like Prosper! I'd like him more if he shot the three better. When it comes to either Tshiebwe or Sanogo, it's a toss up for me. Personally I wouldn't draft either of them.
The only reason I can think of for Keyontae to drop is because of his age. He's a very good player who had a very good year. Someone is going to get a steal with him. I'm a huge Kobe Brown fan, and as I stated he plays for my home state so there's a little bias there. Good shooter and a deceptively good athlete. Jalen Slawson is another good player that maybe goes undrafted, but if he's there when we pick in the 50's I'd have to consider him. I've been very impressed with Ben Shepard as well.
Dillon Mitchell is still a mystery to me. I sort of look at him as a mound of clay waiting to be molded into whatever you want. Don't think the Kings have time for that unless he's sitting there with our last pick. Strawther falling is very surprising. He's a very good player and I think he's 1st rd talent. But what the hell do I know. One thing I think we can agree on, is that this is one crazy draft and anyone could get drafted anywhere!
The only reason I can think of for Keyontae to drop is because of his age. He's a very good player who had a very good year. Someone is going to get a steal with him. I'm a huge Kobe Brown fan, and as I stated he plays for my home state so there's a little bias there. Good shooter and a deceptively good athlete. Jalen Slawson is another good player that maybe goes undrafted, but if he's there when we pick in the 50's I'd have to consider him. I've been very impressed with Ben Shepard as well.
Dillon Mitchell is still a mystery to me. I sort of look at him as a mound of clay waiting to be molded into whatever you want. Don't think the Kings have time for that unless he's sitting there with our last pick. Strawther falling is very surprising. He's a very good player and I think he's 1st rd talent. But what the hell do I know. One thing I think we can agree on, is that this is one crazy draft and anyone could get drafted anywhere!
Lmao. I agree, you are more than just the armchair. IMO you’re our resident draft expert and have been since I’ve been visiting the site. You and IIRC @Telemachus have made it your focus on college and draft prospects and go to the SL almost every year. You guys are the first I voices I look to when the draft rolls around. But we do have a few other members here that are pretty into draft prospects and are quite knowledgeable as well.
I used to be a lot more into it prior to 2019 or so, but my time and interest have waned over the past few years. I’m much more out of the loop these days.
I used to be a lot more into it prior to 2019 or so, but my time and interest have waned over the past few years. I’m much more out of the loop these days.
I liked the little bit I'd seen of Sheppard in the past, but I assumed he'd struggle against a higher level of competition. Granted, he's an older prospect but he looked fantastic in the combine scrimmage. He really opened my eyes with his play.
I'd happily take him at 38 if he's still on the board. He's the kind of 2/3 wing this team needs, especially if TD leaves as a FA.
I still like Jordan Walsh with the late 2nd, though he may not be there at that pick. He's currently not playable at the NBA level due to his inconsistent shooting, but if he can just get capable from outside, he offers a lot of value as a switchable, athletic, active, and lengthy defender.
If the Kings stay put at #24 I still like Max Lewis, Derek Lively or James Nnaji, Kris Murray, Sidy Cissoko, and Colby Jones - pretty much in that order.
I'd happily take him at 38 if he's still on the board. He's the kind of 2/3 wing this team needs, especially if TD leaves as a FA.
I still like Jordan Walsh with the late 2nd, though he may not be there at that pick. He's currently not playable at the NBA level due to his inconsistent shooting, but if he can just get capable from outside, he offers a lot of value as a switchable, athletic, active, and lengthy defender.
If the Kings stay put at #24 I still like Max Lewis, Derek Lively or James Nnaji, Kris Murray, Sidy Cissoko, and Colby Jones - pretty much in that order.
Ben Sheppard: SG/SF, 6'6", 185 Lbs, 6'7.75" Wing Span, Senior, Belmont
34.3 mpg - 18.8 ppg - 47.5% fgp - 41.5% 3pp - 68.4% ftp - 5.2 rpg - 2.9 apg - 1.4 steals
Sheppard had his best year this year having improved every year at Belmont. Particularly his three point shooting. His percentages went up every year as did his volume. His freshman year he shot 28.0%, his sophomore year 32.8%, his junior year 37.1%, and his past season 41.5%. That shows he's putting in the work. He's a very good passer who could fill in as the lead guard if needed. Not a surprise since he played pg in high school. He's a very solid defender with very good lateral quickness. He turned in a 2.94 seconds in the shuttle run at the combine, which I believe was one of the fastest posted.
He's a good athlete, but not an elite one, and probably does more layups than dunks, but he's capable of dunking the ball. He's not a bad finisher, but with added strength, I think he can improve in that area. In many ways he's the type of player that the Kings are looking for. He can play more than one position and guard more than one position. He's a lights out shooter and an excellent passer. Add in that he's had four years of experience that a freshman doesn't have, which makes him more ready to contribute right away..
I like Sheppard and if he's there at 38 I would have to think long and hard before passing on him. I think he can help the team, but there are others that I like as well. Like Bobi Klintman, Jordan Walsh (who should go back to Arkansas for another year), Kobe Brown and newly discovered, Tristan Vukcevic.
34.3 mpg - 18.8 ppg - 47.5% fgp - 41.5% 3pp - 68.4% ftp - 5.2 rpg - 2.9 apg - 1.4 steals
Sheppard had his best year this year having improved every year at Belmont. Particularly his three point shooting. His percentages went up every year as did his volume. His freshman year he shot 28.0%, his sophomore year 32.8%, his junior year 37.1%, and his past season 41.5%. That shows he's putting in the work. He's a very good passer who could fill in as the lead guard if needed. Not a surprise since he played pg in high school. He's a very solid defender with very good lateral quickness. He turned in a 2.94 seconds in the shuttle run at the combine, which I believe was one of the fastest posted.
He's a good athlete, but not an elite one, and probably does more layups than dunks, but he's capable of dunking the ball. He's not a bad finisher, but with added strength, I think he can improve in that area. In many ways he's the type of player that the Kings are looking for. He can play more than one position and guard more than one position. He's a lights out shooter and an excellent passer. Add in that he's had four years of experience that a freshman doesn't have, which makes him more ready to contribute right away..
I like Sheppard and if he's there at 38 I would have to think long and hard before passing on him. I think he can help the team, but there are others that I like as well. Like Bobi Klintman, Jordan Walsh (who should go back to Arkansas for another year), Kobe Brown and newly discovered, Tristan Vukcevic.