Sasha not coming over, Chima Moneke signing with us instead.

#31
Yeah, the Kings are probably going to be playing 3 guard lineups quite a bit so I don’t anticipate Moneke -getting much run but it’s the offseason and hope springs eternal
I'm all for taking flyers on these guys but someone is overwhelmingly going to come away disappointed if they expect these guys to even have an average impact on the court.

If Fox, Mitchell, Monk, TD, Huerter, Barnes, Murray, Lyles, Sabonis and Holmes aren't getting 90% of the minutes, then we are in trouble.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#32
I get the impression we are entering Eric Moreland territory again, when kings fans get excited about 1 dimensional players just cuz they fill a need. Then they never see the light of day cuz they just arent that good. I hope im wrong but really, do we think he would not have made the league already if he was a real defensive pitbull? Others have on that alone. Im suspect how much he will be helpful. I dont think he will be a first wing off the bench when we just got KZ and we have guys like Huerter and TD. I just dont see him getting anything other than DNP unless there are a number of big injuries. Again with Watanabe out there, i question this move big time (in addition to KZ - ALTHOUGH im ok with KZ given he has improved his shot and defense in the NBA every year).
as the only Japanese citizen on this forum (I think), I feel like everyone’s getting a bit ahead of themselves on the whole “Why didn’t we sign Watanabe?” Thing.
The guy’s older than any one of the Kings roster not named Barnes or Holmes or Len, has had some absolutely stinker shooting splits, has had some injury issues, and is also pretty turnover prone for a guy who doesn’t handle the ball that much. He’s also more of a pure 4 who can switch occasionally than a wing who can play forward at this point. And he’s looking for a bigger role than we could probably give him as our 4th/5th forward. Rather ironically, he and Moneke play sorta similar styles.


And without speaking too much out of school here (As someone actively working in the Japanese entertainment representation world, I actually have my sources on this), I don’t think he’s signing in any market without a direct flight to and from Tokyo anytime soon, even if we are close to SFO.
 
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#33
I just try to keep my mouth shut because people get way too bent out of shape these days if you say anything realistic about 2nd round picks, undrafted free agents, back end of the bench/G league tweeners and flawed European players. People are already writing these guys into big minute slots when in reality they'll be about as effective as Justin James.
I'm pretty low on second round picks but I prefer these two guys we're bringing over with a little more seasoning plus have worked with Coach Brown internationally. All that said, I expect them to maybe come in for a few minutes a game if that to give a little defensive mix up if our shooters aren't hot or the other team is too hot.
 
#34
I'm pretty low on second round picks but I prefer these two guys we're bringing over with a little more seasoning plus have worked with Coach Brown internationally. All that said, I expect them to maybe come in for a few minutes a game if that to give a little defensive mix up if our shooters aren't hot or the other team is too hot.
Great call. Probably played into us trading 37 and 49 too, because Brown wanted these guys as the developmental prospects over anyone in the draft. If anything, shows good unity and trust for McNair to let Brown bring his guys in.

I have no idea on the skills/talents of Moneke, but KZ is still only 23, spent 3 years with MIA and the Olympic summer being coached by Brown. While his profile as an extremely versatile wing defender is probably the biggest weakness on the team. That's as good a profile for a "2nd round" type developmental prospect as you can get
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#35
as the only Japanese citizen on this forum (I think), I feel like everyone’s getting a bit ahead of themselves on the whole “Why didn’t we sign Watanabe?” Thing.

And without speaking too much out of school here (His wife and I are both repped by the same talent agency AND I actually have my sources on this), I don’t think he’s signing in any market without a direct flight to and from Tokyo anytime soon, even if we are close to SFO.
How many round trips to Tokyo can you reasonably take during the season, when usually you have one or two days off at most, and half of that is on the road?
 
#36
as the only Japanese citizen on this forum (I think), I feel like everyone’s getting a bit ahead of themselves on the whole “Why didn’t we sign Watanabe?” Thing.
The guy’s older than any one of the Kings roster not named Barnes or Holmes or Len, has had some absolutely stinker shooting splits, has had some injury issues, and is also pretty turnover prone for a guy who doesn’t handle the ball that much. He’s also more of a pure 4 who can switch occasionally than a wing who can play forward at this point. And he’s looking for a bigger role than we could probably give him as our 4th/5th forward. Rather ironically, he and Moneke play sorta similar styles.


And without speaking too much out of school here (His wife and I are both repped by the same talent agency AND I actually have my sources on this), I don’t think he’s signing in any market without a direct flight to and from Tokyo anytime soon, even if we are close to SFO.
I’ve done that Sac to SFO layover on the way to freaking SD of all places. My company, at the time, booked it. It sucked, because it just felt so inconvenient, but that just seems a bit extreme if his wife nixes Sac or any place for an hr or so layover.
 
#37
as the only Japanese citizen on this forum (I think), I feel like everyone’s getting a bit ahead of themselves on the whole “Why didn’t we sign Watanabe?” Thing.
The guy’s older than any one of the Kings roster not named Barnes or Holmes or Len, has had some absolutely stinker shooting splits, has had some injury issues, and is also pretty turnover prone for a guy who doesn’t handle the ball that much. He’s also more of a pure 4 who can switch occasionally than a wing who can play forward at this point. And he’s looking for a bigger role than we could probably give him as our 4th/5th forward. Rather ironically, he and Moneke play sorta similar styles.


And without speaking too much out of school here (His wife and I are both repped by the same talent agency AND I actually have my sources on this), I don’t think he’s signing in any market without a direct flight to and from Tokyo anytime soon, even if we are close to SFO.
Tetsu with the inside info. With respect to his game. He has flaws for sure but his defense and with and outside shot you at least have to respect, i dont think he can be beaten for the price (probably not getting more than 2M in any market). I get wanting a bigger role, but i do think he could have been Barnes' backup which is a bigger role than anyone else will give him. And if a 2h drive from Sac to SF airport keeps him from a slightly better payday or bigger role, then he and his wife are dumb.It takes that long to get across Toronto. (btw i am not from Sac either-probably the least likely kings fan in existence.... From Ohio who just fell in love with the early 2000s kings and have been a masochist sonce then so i haveno idea bow that drive is lol).
 
#39
I'm all for taking flyers on these guys but someone is overwhelmingly going to come away disappointed if they expect these guys to even have an average impact on the court.

If Fox, Mitchell, Monk, TD, Huerter, Barnes, Murray, Lyles, Sabonis and Holmes aren't getting 90% of the minutes, then we are in trouble.
I would say if they are we are in trouble. None of those guys can defend the rim and are marginal as wing defenders.
 
#40
Okay so we basically sold both 2nd round picks. If Monte is at good at drafting seems like poor asset management yet again.
We have both two ways filled and several prospects signed to the big team that are more ready than anyone we'd have drafted.

I'd argue it's either a wash or good management, since we filled the spots with talent we like while getting future capital. It sounds like they may still pursue Sasha next year just that right now it isn't a good fit and we don't have money to offset the raise his team just gave him.
 
#41
We have both two ways filled and several prospects signed to the big team that are more ready than anyone we'd have drafted.

I'd argue it's either a wash or good management, since we filled the spots with talent we like while getting future capital. It sounds like they may still pursue Sasha next year just that right now it isn't a good fit and we don't have money to offset the raise his team just gave him.
Yeah, once I saw Sasha had an NBA option next year, that just made more sense to me for him to come over then, when he can have a "guaranteed" rotation slot. We'll see if these 2 new guys are guaranteed for next season, but:

Fox || Mitchell
Huerter || Monk
Keegan
Sabonis || Holmes
2023 FRP

Are the only guys with guaranteed money next year with Barnes headed to FA and us very likely shopping Holmes again. He'd have a far better shot at a rotation spot next year than this season.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#43
Well Moneke is certainly a baller. He's a very good athlete and extremely quick, so he fits the fast pace. He has a lightning quick second jump. His 3 pt shot is a bit suspect, at least stat wise, but we'll see. He can defend, which seems to be a current theme with the players were bringing in. One of Okpala's best traits is his defense. Anyway here's a recent video of Moneke.

 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#44
Tetsu with the inside info. With respect to his game. He has flaws for sure but his defense and with and outside shot you at least have to respect, i dont think he can be beaten for the price (probably not getting more than 2M in any market). I get wanting a bigger role, but i do think he could have been Barnes' backup which is a bigger role than anyone else will give him. And if a 2h drive from Sac to SF airport keeps him from a slightly better payday or bigger role, then he and his wife are dumb.It takes that long to get across Toronto. (btw i am not from Sac either-probably the least likely kings fan in existence.... From Ohio who just fell in love with the early 2000s kings and have been a masochist sonce then so i haveno idea bow that drive is lol).
Watanabe grew up idolizing Kobe as a Lakers fan and does a lot of his off-season work out there. His wife quit her old gig as a TV presenter for one of Japan’s big four networks to branch out but has always been a bit of one of those people who enjoys the Hollywood “lifestyle”.

I think if anything he’s locked in on that market. He’d only get the vet minimum at most but the potential earnings from the added gigs off the court (Japanese ad agencies love the trip to film commercials in LA but are not quite fans of the longer trip to Toronto) would more than make up for it, at least in the short term.
 
#46
I would say if they are we are in trouble. None of those guys can defend the rim and are marginal as wing defenders.
Less trouble than if we have these other guys playing. The team is lopsided for sure but these guys are way more than likely to be net negative players rather than make the team better by replacing the others that I named.
 
#48
Did not realize Chima was actually MVP of the BCL this season. (Funny that we signed the BCL MVP immediately after not signing the Greek League MVP).

Chima was the "star" on that UC Davis team that made it to March Madness (just don't ask me about how the actual tourney appearance went) but Jim Les used him as more of a big man than as the power driver wing that he was for Team Nigeria and Manresa apparently. He shot less than 30% from three this year but is a really strong athlete so if he can string together enough shots, he could be a solid wing. Mike Brown vouched for the guy so I'm hoping for big things from him (if not for the Kings then at least to boost the profile of my college alma mater.).
Watched the Kansas/UCD game and Moneke live earlier in that year - during the March Madness game UCD were completely outmatched personnel wise - just making it was a historic event for UCD. I'm happy to see he has a shot at making the Kings team. As I recall he was a good rebounder and reminds me slightly of a small Amare Stoudamire.... he's not as not as athletic as Wallace but he's bigger/more muscular and can mix it up. I thought a team might take a flyer on him out of UCD, but the Kings passed on him then I think.
 
#50
Less trouble than if we have these other guys playing. The team is lopsided for sure but these guys are way more than likely to be net negative players rather than make the team better by replacing the others that I named.
I just watched American Underdog - I don't share your pessimism but understand it.....will be pulling for Moneke....if he makes the team and especially the lower half rotation (probably unlikely), I may have to change my stance on abstaining on watching the Kings early next season with my self-imposed requirement of .500 in Feb/Mar.

Being a 'Davisite' changes my calculus. I cheer home first. And that American Underdog movie, though cliched, aint half-bad
 
#51
I just watched American Underdog - I don't share your pessimism but understand it.....will be pulling for Moneke....if he makes the team and especially the lower half rotation (probably unlikely), I may have to change my stance on abstaining on watching the Kings early next season with my self-imposed requirement of .500 in Feb/Mar.

Being a 'Davisite' changes my calculus. I cheer home first. And that American Underdog movie, though cliched, aint half-bad
Don't get me wrong, I pull for all these guys too. I just don't have any expectations when it comes to 2nd rounders, UDFAs and back end of the rotation longshots.
 
#53
Feels like the entire drought we’ve been picking over end of the bench guys and g-leaguers and hoping and dreaming they’d developed into something. IT was the last one to actually do it

Vlade was always wheeling and dealing and actually added some talent here and there but it was always at the cost of picks contracts and actual fit. This offseason feels very un-sexy and interesting just adding Huerter Monk and Murray. Feels very what you see is what you get

ultimately this roster is what it’s going to be. The only move I can maybe see is replacing Barnes but I can’t imagine swapping SFs and coming out ahead unless maybe it’s a team dumping a long term contract at the same position. Maybe Sasha comes over next year if Barnes leaves and we have a ton of minutes and money to give him but I sort of doubt it

we’re basically back to the Rondo-Gay-Boogie stage of the roster where either they make the jump to the next level or this gets blown up. Major difference here is the fit and coaching so the potential is there, even if at the top end we don’t have anyone as good as DMC on the roster
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#54
Okay so we basically sold both 2nd round picks. If Monte is at good at drafting seems like poor asset management yet again.
I don't recall anyone getting as upset over frigging 2nd rd picks as you are! I'll tell you what it sounds like to me, and you can tell me if I'm wrong. It's sounds like you just don't like Monte, and your looking in the closet, under the rug, and any place you can think of to find dirt. It doesn't become you. Has Monte been perfect? No, of course not, but he has slowly changed the culture of this team, and we'll find out if that works or not this coming season. If we start winning, no one will give a rats behind about a couple of 2nd rd picks he sold. I like to wait and see the results before passing judgement. I do that when evaluating draft picks, and I like to do it when judging a team. That way I actually have some facts to base my judgement on, and I don't look like a fool!
 
#56
I don't recall anyone getting as upset over frigging 2nd rd picks as you are! I'll tell you what it sounds like to me, and you can tell me if I'm wrong. It's sounds like you just don't like Monte, and your looking in the closet, under the rug, and any place you can think of to find dirt. It doesn't become you. Has Monte been perfect? No, of course not, but he has slowly changed the culture of this team, and we'll find out if that works or not this coming season. If we start winning, no one will give a rats behind about a couple of 2nd rd picks he sold. I like to wait and see the results before passing judgement. I do that when evaluating draft picks, and I like to do it when judging a team. That way I actually have some facts to base my judgement on, and I don't look like a fool!
Franchises who have gotten better find contributors in the 2nd round or late first often with a trade up:
* Memphis found Dillon Brooks
* New Orleans found Herb Jones
* Minnesota found Jaden McDaniels
* Clipper with Terrance Mann

we repeatedly sell ours and trade back to sell them some more. Good players were available who could have been a 3 and D wing. Our misuse of 2nd round picks is one reason we are continually poor.
 
#57
Franchises who have gotten better find contributors in the 2nd round or late first often with a trade up:
* Memphis found Dillon Brooks
* New Orleans found Herb Jones
* Minnesota found Jaden McDaniels
* Clipper with Terrance Mann

we repeatedly sell ours and trade back to sell them some more. Good players were available who could have been a 3 and D wing. Our misuse of 2nd round picks is one reason we are continually poor.
Just playing devil's advocate. The second round bummed me out and left me shaking my head. Everybody was saying there was first round talent dropping so I was excited about who we could snatch. Then the pick was traded and it was a what the Hell moment. And I took their 'roster spot crunch' excuse as bull crap.

Now that the dust has mostly cleared, maybe they told the truth. What roster spot was open and still is open? What player currently on the roster do you cut? And yes, I do know that there is one spot still open but there's still the potential issue of depth at the pg spot. Personally I think it wise to keep one spot open. But what do I know?
 
#59
Tough to understand the disdain. As the Kings' second round pick last year, Queta is being developed. Keon Ellis, signed as an UDFA, serves the same purpose as a second, but arguably, a better "prospect" than most 2nds. Who TF cares where you got him? YOU GOT HIM.

The players brought in here at the tail end, are roughly around the same level as second rounders, but with a little more seasoning. There's still room for them to grow, and they come in with some understanding of what Brown is going to do.

This is proper asset management. The Kings did not have roster space given the plan and what was already in place. If Sasha came over, there would have been even less use for the picks.

Ultimately, if you look at things logically, you can see a plan and see why taking some flyers on players that weren't in the short or long term plans for the Kings at this stage. This ain't the year for it, folks. Next year, even if Vezenkov comes over, there should be a bit more space.
 
#60
Just playing devil's advocate. The second round bummed me out and left me shaking my head. Everybody was saying there was first round talent dropping so I was excited about who we could snatch. Then the pick was traded and it was a what the Hell moment. And I took their 'roster spot crunch' excuse as bull crap.

Now that the dust has mostly cleared, maybe they told the truth. What roster spot was open and still is open? What player currently on the roster do you cut? And yes, I do know that there is one spot still open but there's still the potential issue of depth at the pg spot. Personally I think it wise to keep one spot open. But what do I know?
I’ll be your huckleberry. Ill play the game. Let’s the say the Kings keep both our 2nds. Two different scenarios that would be fun to play the what if game for myself

37 - Kendall Brown/Josh Minott/Bryce McGowen - SF

49 - Jabari Walker/Justin Lewis/Kenny Lofton Jr. - PF

UDFA - Keon Ellis, SG

or…

37 - EJ Lidell, PF

49 - Gui Santos/Darius Days/Ron Harper Jr. - SF

UDFA - Kwon Ellis, SG

I don’t think any PF we drafted in the 2nd would immediately come in and replace Lyles or Metu. But both Lyles and Metu are on one year deals and might be looking for more money and a better opportunity seeing as Murray will always be playing in front of them. Whichever guy we drafted in 2nd could develop however for the next three years and give us a future back up and depth behind Murray.

Same could be said with whomever we drafted to provide depth at SF. I don’t think any of them would see playing time over Barnes, Huerter, KZ but I don’t think Chima has much of a future in the league and drafting a guy who has developmental upside to be our SF 3 this year and possibly grow to become a decent role player. Which will be even more important to have with Barnes likely departure after this season.

I’m not trying to beat a dead horse here, we traded the 2nds for, in terms of this years team, nothing. I’ve moved on and it is what it is, however those who have issue with the trading of the 2nds I completely understand, there were missed opportunities to find cost controlled, upside players who at best provide cheap depth and role players for the coming years. At worst, if they don’t pan out they would leave us exactly where we’ll be next offseason (likely with some combination of Barnes, Lyles, Metu leaving and only one of KZ/Chima being worth minutes) which is in need of cost controlled, cheap depth behind our main core. It’s seemingly a missed opportunity due to lack of foresight and vision beyond this year.

The argument of “the kings don’t have roster room” falls a little short with the Chima signing as well as the still open roster spot. Chima and KZ could prove me completely wrong and be a missing ingredient that this team needed, I just think those odds are much higher than one of the players I named panning out and becoming a solid role player.