KINGS PICKING 4TH IN 2022 NBA DRAFT!

[SacTownKid]

Or perhaps to be more clear: Holmgren's body phenotype suggests that he may be at a much higher risk for heart issues than the general populace. Heart issues in an NBA basketball player are very serious and are likely to result in forced medical retirement. Holmgren is reported to have skipped the NBA heart exam (is this true?). This leads to the obvious speculation that Holmgren may be aware of or concerned about potential heart issues that (if present) he hopes are not disclosed until he gets a big wad of guaranteed money. Holmgren is also an incredibly talented two-way player at a critical position who is likely to be at worst a top-4 player in the draft if he is healthy.

Knowing all this, do you spend a top-4 draft pick on him if you DON'T have his medicals?

Well the speculation in the piece was that this was potentially done with the intent to manipulate the draft order so that he lands in a preferred destination. Another valid question is what is the NBA's exam? Is it more thorough than a teams medical team giving him a look through? I doubt it. The combine's a meat market, haha.

 

[Jkbiker]

Chet Holmgren refusing to provide medicals to certain teams, per Basketball News (msn.com)

“I also heard that Holmgren has not provided teams medical information (at least most of the team), and did not do the NBA’s heart screening. That could suggest that his agents are trying to manipulate the draft and direct (Holmgren) to a specific spot, which is probably the most likely scenario. I don’t know which team that would be though.”​

This comes off the heels of The Ringer’s Ryen Russillo mentioning on his podcast that Holmgren and his agent Bill Duffy want to be drafted by the Thunder. Russillo also mentioned that Duffy is a very powerful person in the NBA, hinting that he could make it work.

With Las Vegas odds shifting on Wednesday that makes the first pick a toss-up between Jabari Smith Jr. and Holmgren for the Orlando Magic, then these two reports coming out on Thursday, it’s hard not to see this being a tactical move on Holmgren’s camp to avoid being drafted by the Magic.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Well the speculation in the piece was that this was potentially done with the intent to manipulate the draft order so that he lands in a preferred destination. Another valid question is what is the NBA's exam? Is it more thorough than a teams medical team giving him a look through? I doubt it. The combine's a meat market, haha.

It's the same exam that caught Isaiah Austin's arrhythmia and lead to his eventual diagnosis.

As amateur athletes these guys have a lot of reason to not know things that could hamper their eventual pro careers so I doubt they are just testing for it unless they have underlying symptoms and conditions. Some of it may even be HIPAA protected? With millions in an NBA contract it suddenly becomes a much bigger investment/reason to do due diligence.

 

[SacTownKid]

How reliable is Kennedy. The report is he did not do the heart exam. How is that even possible? I don't know.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1537496928673533953

but as I've been trying to say, and Cap said very eloquently - if you know you are about to make millions, but one stupid test could screw it all up, if you could opt out of the test, you would, right? Same reason Sharpe won't work out against people instead of dunking over chairs. Except a little more life and death.

On a lesser note, let's say you have a child with a mild illness that isn't life threatening, but would make getting insurance more costly if diagnosed. Would you get it diagnosed or just roll the dice that you can treat it holistically?

Maybe, but what are the odds that he's going to be able to skate on the same test with the best medical professionals an NBA team can buy? He's not signing an NBA contract, he's signing with an NBA team. The NBA could look bad, but the NBA team eats it in the end. If he refuses any tests with an NBA team he's going Bol Bol mode on draft night which would really **** it up for the Kings. Then again, maybe they think he's worth the gamble anyway. He might be. Players have had heart procedures and come back just fine and sometimes it's simply a question of monitoring. If he had some of the other ancillary issues like @tyguy mentioned that's another story. I mean, Austin hid that he had one eye, but he was never under the same microscope.

 

[Jkbiker]

So: A. Chet's plan works, we are back to Jabari.Chet,Banchero and Kings have bidding War for Ivey

or B. Plan backfires, OKC takes Ivey, and Kings get to toss dice with Chet

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What I don't understand is Chet allegedly just doesn't want to go to the Magic. OKC is his preferred destination and the pick two. Is he really angling for the possibility he goes 12 if not 2 by not providing the next 10 teams his info?

I feel like the NBA should step in if a player can bypass simple things like these, otherwise the draft process is broken.

 

[SacTownKid]

It's the same exam that caught Isaiah Austin's arrhythmia and lead to his eventual diagnosis.

As amateur athletes these guys have a lot of reason to not know things that could hamper their eventual pro careers so I doubt they are just testing for it unless they have underlying symptoms and conditions. Some of it may even be HIPAA protected? With millions in an NBA contract it suddenly becomes a much bigger investment/reason to do due diligence.

That's true but like I said, subsequently Austin still played pro ball overseas. Maybe it's a question of a symptom being the key? Like I said, look at Chuck Hayes he was misdiagnosed by the Kings and it nearly blew up his career, so maybe agents are sketched with the NBA's tests? If Chet thinks he can hide things that important like a heart exam then that 37 pick might be pretty valuable this year after all. Any abnormality will likely get picked up by someone.

 

[SacTownKid]

What I don't understand is Chet allegedly just doesn't want to go to the Magic. OKC is his preferred destination and the pick two. Is he really angling for the possibility he goes 12 if not 2 by not providing the next 10 teams his info?

I feel like the NBA should step in if a player can bypass simple things like these, otherwise the draft process is broken.

Did you see he didn't provide it to the next 10? I saw something that said Haliburton's people did the same thing but didn't intend for him to drop that far. I know, the whole thing is weird but I get it, they angle for the 2nd contract on day 1 and agents see what can happen if in the wrong situation. Bagley had injuries but the Kings still pushed lesser potential players ahead of him and kept him from at least producing numbers. In the end, it's still better than having to negotiate 100 million dollar contracts before a player has set foot on the floor I guess.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

That's true but like I said, subsequently Austin still played pro ball overseas. Maybe it's a question of a symptom being the key? Like I said, look at Chuck Hayes he was misdiagnosed by the Kings and it nearly blew up his career, so maybe agents are sketched with the NBA's tests? If Chet thinks he can hide things that important like a heart exam then that 37 pick might be pretty valuable this year after all. Any abnormality will likely get picked up by someone.

It's up to every team to do with the information they have, but the NBA should make it so teams have the same access to baseline stuff like this. I get that not every player can do individual team workouts or they might sandbag one if they don't like a team, but medicals are so basic with the money at stake.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Did you see he didn't provide it to the next 10? I saw something that said Haliburton's people did the same thing but didn't intend for him to drop that far. I know, the whole thing is weird but I get it, they angle for the 2nd contract on day 1 and agents see what can happen if in the wrong situation. Bagley had injuries but the Kings still pushed lesser potential players ahead of him and kept him from at least producing numbers. In the end, it's still better than having to negotiate 100 million dollar contracts before a player has set foot on the floor I guess.

I only saw what Kennedy reported, which is supposedly he skipped the NBA's heart exam and he isn't providing "at least most" teams with medical info.

If one team has it they all should have it.

 

[ockingsfan]

What I don't understand is Chet allegedly just doesn't want to go to the Magic. OKC is his preferred destination and the pick two. Is he really angling for the possibility he goes 12 if not 2 by not providing the next 10 teams his info?

I feel like the NBA should step in if a player can bypass simple things like these, otherwise the draft process is broken.

Michael Porter Jr did the same thing during the Luka-Bagley draft year. Only gave medicals to the teams he hoped would draft him and stone walled everyone else he didn't want to go to. He slid from a pre-season potential #1 pick to #14 that year. Chet won't fall that far, but he could slide a bit if he doesn't give teams his medicals.

 

[ockingsfan]

Nunez, who will lose his mind if we pass on Ivey at 4 said something on the podcast last night I agreed with. If you draft Ivey can you maximize Fox and Jaden’s talent as a duo? To me the answer is no. The “figure it out later” then comes down to two options: groom Ivey to replace Fox and trade Swipa or develop Ivey and trade him as part of a bigger deal next off season or at the deadline.

I'm not that concerned about Ivey's fit next to Fox. I have confidence that Ivey will be able to improve on his 36% 3 point shooting with practice and NBA spacing. If Ivey can become that 38%+ 3 point% Shooting Guard next to Fox, we would have one of the fastest back courts in NBA history. Also, I have faith that Mike Brown can get Fox and Ivey to play passable defense in time.

The Kings would need to find a 3 and D Small Forward through trade or free agency (i.e. Otto Porter or Holmes for Oubre trade?) though. The Kings would be set in the back court with a Fox-Ivey-Mitchell 3 guard rotation.

 

[sauce-26]

I remember hearing about the release of medical exams thing a couple of drafts ago. It is not in the collective barganing agreement so draftees can technically withhold their med docs. The players association wants to keep it the way it is because it allows more player say when it comes to who they release info to and they get to dictate their wishes more. This will unfortunately be the same thing each draft until it is changed in the cba

 

[Chupacabra]

Yea it's not like they haven't worked there whole life for this moment while the rest of us where showing up late to class and chasing girls. Relax

The "rest of us" are not part of the equation. Only the NBA, the player, and money are. Just like any business deal, leverage exists and one side has more of it. From where I'm standing, it sure looks like the NBA and the money it has to spend have a lot more leverage than any draft pick. That being said, annual Kings basher Givoney failed to cite any sources that substantiate the claim that Ivey does not want the Kings to draft him, so this is as significant as a fart in the wind.

 

[tyguy]

I have never cared about whether a player wants to play for a particular franchise. Curry famously didn’t want to play for the warriors. He really wanted to go to the knicks.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1537940451608580100

OKC fans are wild, man.

 

[The Effort Police]

My spicy take is that Johnny Davis is gonna be a better pro than Jaden Ivey. If we do the Wizards deal, I'd be praying that Daniels/Mathurin are there, but Davis SHOULD be there if need be.

So, do the Wizards deal.

Lost in all this talk about the number of teams trying to trade up for Ivey is that everyone doing it except the Pacers are idiot franchises just like ours. (Blazers aren't historically, but there appears to be a gas leak coming from there recently)
(Edit: Looks like that the Blazers haven't even been reported wanting to move up).

Who moved up for Luka? A gold standard NBA franchise.

Hell, do any of them except for RJ +11 from the Knicks.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1537940451608580100

OKC fans are wild, man.

I'm sorry what now?


OKC already has too many picks anyways, I say they give us 2 and 12 for 4.
seems fair and trade machine says it works.

 

[Tetsujin]

My spicy take is that Johnny Davis is gonna be a better pro than Jaden Ivey. If we do the Wizards deal, I'd be praying that Daniels/Mathurin are there, but Davis SHOULD be there if need be.

So, do the Wizards deal.

Lost in all this talk about the number of teams trying to trade up for Ivey is that everyone doing it except the Pacers are idiot franchises just like ours. (Blazers aren't historically, but there appears to be a gas leak coming from there recently).

Who moved up for Luka? A gold standard NBA franchise.

Hell, do any of them except for RJ +11 from the Knicks.

On the Pacers front, it seems like they don’t have much patience for an actual rebuild either so I’m not sure I’d slot them into the competent franchise category at this point. Carlisle’s pretty old for a rebuild coach, their owner is famously anti-tank, and they keep coming up in max contract sign and trade deals for DeAndre Ayton for some reason.

 

[SacTownKid]

My spicy take is that Johnny Davis is gonna be a better pro than Jaden Ivey. If we do the Wizards deal, I'd be praying that Daniels/Mathurin are there, but Davis SHOULD be there if need be.

So, do the Wizards deal.

Lost in all this talk about the number of teams trying to trade up for Ivey is that everyone doing it except the Pacers are idiot franchises just like ours. (Blazers aren't historically, but there appears to be a gas leak coming from there recently)
(Edit: Looks like that the Blazers haven't even been reported wanting to move up).

Who moved up for Luka? A gold standard NBA franchise.

Hell, do any of them except for RJ +11 from the Knicks.

I don't think saying that about 95% of this draft when it comes to Davis is that spicy.

As for the Luka bit, look at the trade made. The Hawks didn't move out of the "star" portion of the draft and got Trae in the process. That should be a lesson to the Kings. If you can move down, still get one of the star potential guys. If you are moving down below that, and value wise this one is set as a top 4 draft by most accounts, then the options mean something else better be coming in that move down that's going to be worth it.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Yes, yes you can. If Walton wasn't, well, Luke Walton a coach could have easily figured out how to use Fox and Haliburton more effectively. You keep the ball in the stars hands (Fox) and have the better shooter (Hali) play off of him. In typical Luke fashion he did the exact opposite. In the end it worked out but only because Monte cut his coach and then cut bait on the 3 PG build. Ivey fits, especially with Sabonis. To me, drafting Ivey is much more about how good it would be for Domas as it is relative to any potential crossover between Ivey and Fox. The absolute best fits for Domas are Holmgren and Ivey because they are already familiar with the exact sets they run through Domas.

How many 20 point plus backcourt duos are in the league? I’m too tired to answer the question but I can at least think of Dame and Cj all those years

 

[D13]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1537605437578792962

 

[iowamcnabb]

I'm not that concerned about Ivey's fit next to Fox.

Fit could be ok on paper but I still wonder if both Fox and Ivey can reach their respective potential sharing a backcourt. Making it work and maximizing your talent are two different things.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1537605437578792962

Teams make guys wear their uniforms when they have them in for workouts so I’m not sure this is quite the revelation this person thinks it is.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Teams make guys wear their uniforms when they have them in for workouts so I’m not sure this is quite the revelation this person thinks it is.

I guess the least you can say is that Holmgren didn't refuse to work out for Orlando.

 

[Kingster]

Or perhaps to be more clear: Holmgren's body phenotype suggests that he may be at a much higher risk for heart issues than the general populace. Heart issues in an NBA basketball player are very serious and are likely to result in forced medical retirement. Holmgren is reported to have skipped the NBA heart exam (is this true?). This leads to the obvious speculation that Holmgren may be aware of or concerned about potential heart issues that (if present) he hopes are not disclosed until he gets a big wad of guaranteed money. Holmgren is also an incredibly talented two-way player at a critical position who is likely to be at worst a top-4 player in the draft if he is healthy.

Knowing all this, do you spend a top-4 draft pick on him if you DON'T have his medicals?

Absolutely not. I wouldn't spend a top 4 pick on him with the medicals. Without the medicals, he's not first round material.

 

[iowamcnabb]

“Certain combinations of symptoms and family history must be present to confirm a diagnosis of Marfan syndrome. In some cases, a person may have some features of Marfan syndrome, but not enough of them to be diagnosed with the disorder.”

-Mayo Clinic

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1538139612585009156

“I am fine with an overpay as long as we do not give up any of our assets”’

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1537975344837251077

 

[Warhawk]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1537975344837251077

This right here is a red flag - you are undoubtably going to be drafted in the NBA draft next week and you don't even know who plays on the various teams? I mean, you don't have to know every player on every team, but you (as a college player intending to be drafted) should at least know the top few players on each team and be able to at least briefly talk about them and how you might fit in. This is an amazing and stunning lack of basic preparation for the job you want to get - and you absolutely know there will be interview questions on this.