[Game] Kings @ Spurs, 11/10/21 5:30pm Pacific, 8:30pm Eastern

[The_Jamal]

You can't be a star in this league and not dominate the ball. Before this game people were saying Fox doesn't deserve to be called a star because he wasn't producing like one. Today he does and he's low-key selfish and needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time and we need to trade everyone else and let him play one on five? Look at this graphic of the last 40 assist leaders...

Steve Nash and Magic can do no wrong and John Stockton looks more like a banker than a baller so he gets a free pass (heh) too, but just about everyone else here was at one time or another considered to be a selfish a-hole who was out hunting stats instead of playing team ball. That game against Charlotte when every shot was dropping and every pass was an assist was a whole lot of fun but nobody plays like that every night (well, except for Golden State a few years ago but they had a whole lot of help from the refs ignoring their creative use of interpretive dance screen setting to accomplish that magical 73 win season).

It's possible for the team to play well together and still occasionally need a monster individual effort offensively some nights. We don't need to pout if we don't get one style of offense every game. I see we gave up 136 points to the Spurs (26 more than their season average) and I don't feel like our offense was the problem here.

This forum is just so dumb sometimes. It just has to have a scapegoat, no matter what. Now, a few seem to have banded together to try and ruin Fox, basically the one fun/good player the Kings have had the last 4 years that actually likes being on this craphole of a team.

It's been the same issue forever. Whenever we get a few good players, it's always "Oh we need to trade Player X him because he can't play with player Y" Rather than realizing this league is won with talent first. Doesn't matter if you have the best fit in the NBA, if you don't have top end talent, you aren't winning a championship

 

[sactowndog]

You can't be a star in this league and not dominate the ball. Before this game people were saying Fox doesn't deserve to be called a star because he wasn't producing like one. Today he does and he's low-key selfish and needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time and we need to trade everyone else and let him play one on five? Look at this graphic of the last 40 assist leaders...

Steve Nash and Magic can do no wrong and John Stockton looks more like a banker than a baller so he gets a free pass (heh) too, but just about everyone else here was at one time or another considered to be a selfish a-hole who was out hunting stats instead of playing team ball. That game against Charlotte when every shot was dropping and every pass was an assist was a whole lot of fun but nobody plays like that every night (well, except for Golden State a few years ago but they had a whole lot of help from the refs ignoring their creative use of interpretive dance screen setting to accomplish that magical 73 win season).

It's possible for the team to play well together and still occasionally need a monster individual effort offensively some nights. We don't need to pout if we don't get one style of offense every game. I see we gave up 136 points to the Spurs (26 more than their season average) and I don't feel like our offense was the problem here.

Steph Curry says hi.

 

[Chupacabra]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1458649104179818496

]
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS RUN HIM UP THE MIDDLE ON PICK AND ROLLS WITH YOUR GOOD POINT GUARDS EVER SINGLE DAMN PLAY. IT IS LITERALLY THAT SIMPLE.

We were doing that a lot with Haliburton-Holmes and Mitchell-Len. It's been probably our best stuff.

 

[kb02]

You can't be a star in this league and not dominate the ball. Before this game people were saying Fox doesn't deserve to be called a star because he wasn't producing like one. Today he does and he's low-key selfish and needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time and we need to trade everyone else and let him play one on five? Look at this graphic of the last 40 assist leaders...

Steve Nash and Magic can do no wrong and John Stockton looks more like a banker than a baller so he gets a free pass (heh) too, but just about everyone else here was at one time or another considered to be a selfish a-hole who was out hunting stats instead of playing team ball. That game against Charlotte when every shot was dropping and every pass was an assist was a whole lot of fun but nobody plays like that every night (well, except for Golden State a few years ago but they had a whole lot of help from the refs ignoring their creative use of interpretive dance screen setting to accomplish that magical 73 win season).

It's possible for the team to play well together and still occasionally need a monster individual effort offensively some nights. We don't need to pout if we don't get one style of offense every game. I see we gave up 136 points to the Spurs (26 more than their season average) and I don't feel like our offense was the problem here.

The Kings were dead last in defense last year, because all they did was run and play absolutely no defense. With Fox and Buddy starting, the Kings gave up 70 points in the 1h tonight. They didn’t win with that style last year and they got destroyed playing that style tonight.

You want to build your team around Fox, go ahead. Just be ready for 20 yrs of no playoffs,

 

[serbiangoat]

What on earth were the Kings doing all off-season? This is literally basically the same crap squad as last year with an extra rookie. It's time to change the core and coach they should have done it after the tanked run they had when they traded for Barnes at All Star break whatever year they did. I don't see what the Kings has to lose at this point by trading Fox/Barnes. When the likes of Delon Wright/CoJo can step in to your position and the team has a similar or better W-L it means your not that important.

Did the Kings make a run at any young talented player like Larui Markenenn in the offseason? I have been out of the loop with the NBA but the squad on paper is a joke.

 

[sactowndog]

So when did fox have time during the off season to go to the houses of every member of kingsfans.com and kick their dogs?

Doesn’t play up to par early in the season, he sucks, trade him. Finally has a good game but the team suddenly forgets how to play defense and spurs shoot lights out from 3 and fox is still the problem?

Just for the record I didn’t say Fox sucks. I did say he is more of a 2 guard mentality and I stand by that point. But I have said that point for years.

Hali is a better true point and a better shooter. Mitchell is a better defender and both are sub par shooters.

The team could be better with one of Fox or Mitchell. They are too much an overlap

 

[kb02]

This forum is just so dumb sometimes. It just has to have a scapegoat, no matter what. Now, a few seem to have banded together to try and ruin Fox, basically the one fun/good player the Kings have had the last 4 years that actually likes being on this craphole of a team.

It's been the same issue forever. Whenever we get a few good players, it's always "Oh we need to trade Player X him because he can't play with player Y" Rather than realizing this league is won with talent first. Doesn't matter if you have the best fit in the NBA, if you don't have top end talent, you aren't winning a championship

We do agree that you need talent to win. This team has a talent deficit. I see no stars on this team.

 

[Tetsujin]

Steph Curry says hi.

The "Steph Curry is a wholly unique outlier who gets most of his points playing a variation of the Mike Bibby role in a motion offense" thing might have been true when he was first coming into the league but it's far from the truth now. He's putting up a whopping 32.7% usage rate, which is right between Kevin Durant and Ja Morant. De'Aaron Fox is at 28.5 (not sure if tonight's stats enter the equation yet) so in order to "play more like Steph" he would actually need to dominate the ball more.

 

[The_Jamal]

Steph Curry says hi.

...

Steph Curry is one of he heaviest USG players in the NBA.

 

[Tetsujin]

...

Steph Curry is one of he heaviest USG players in the NBA.

His career assist percentage is also right around Fox's so I guess Steph is saying hi from the De'Aaron Fox club.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Well, tonight officially replaced the Pacers game as the worst loss of the young season.

What a terrible loss. The Spurs are awful. But apparently so are the KINGS … yet again.

What a continuous embarrassment.

I guess we just have to be forever content with winning the long shot victory to keep our team in SAC. The basketball gods simply won’t allow us to have anything more than that.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm all for understanding. Truly, I am. The young man has had his pride hurt. He's ashamed of sitting on the bench. He probably dreamed of being an All Star, and poof, he's going to have to fight for just being in the league. All that said, I'm sick of it. There is a time and place for righteous indignation, and this is the freaking time. The young man better start growing up. NOW And the people that enable it, players or whomever, they better grow the F up. This is a league for adults, not babies that go waa, waa, waa.

On the other hand, if you are absolutely rotation material but your coach holds you out of the rotation for no good reason, only to finally ask you to enter the game in the final minutes of a blowout after having already inserted the non-rotation substitutes, I can see why you'd not be terribly happy about it.

 

[TaxMan]

I'm all for understanding. Truly, I am. The young man has had his pride hurt. He's ashamed of sitting on the bench. He probably dreamed of being an All Star, and poof, he's going to have to fight for just being in the league. All that said, I'm sick of it. There is a time and place for righteous indignation, and this is the freaking time. The young man better start growing up. NOW And the people that enable it, players or whomever, they better grow the F up. This is a league for adults, not babies that go waa, waa, waa.

I think the tip-off was in a preseason interview in Marvin’s rookie year. They ask Marvin his goal for his rookie year, and he says league MVP. At the time I had a nervous chuckle to myself, pushing away the constant warning signs because he still held so much promise and a hope that he was our superstar. Looking back now it was just another sign that this guy was coddled so much to the point of delusion. He’s never gotten over that. Combined with a low key passive aggressive personality, and you can see how his refusal to come into the game happened.

 

[EIM86]

Not even 1% surprised we ended up 5-7. Taking a break from this trash coached team. Hopefully Walton is gone soon

 

[hrdboild]

Steph Curry says hi.

Yeah, and he's also not a pure PG. I'm not sure that anyone in the NBA is anymore.

 

[hrdboild]

The Kings were dead last in defense last year, because all they did was run and play absolutely no defense. With Fox and Buddy starting, the Kings gave up 70 points in the 1h tonight. They didn’t win with that style last year and they got destroyed playing that style tonight.

You want to build your team around Fox, go ahead. Just be ready for 20 yrs of no playoffs,

Fox and Buddy are 2/5 of a starting lineup and 2/9 or 2/10 of a rotation. While they do account for the largest share of our offense, you can't blame the entirety of our poor defense on them. You might just as well have said "how good can Davion Mitchell be defensively if the team he plays on gives up 136 points?". Being near the bottom in team rebounding and giving up tons of second chance points also have a lot to do with it. Playing two SFs and an undersized center for the first and third quarters and then running three or four guard lineups in the fourth quarter is not a great look defensively either.

We all knew the roster was unbalanced this year and there was some hope that a trade would materialize to fix that but so far none has. But Luke Walton has already shown that he favors offense with his lineups, substitutions, and game planning so I don't know that it would matter unless you pull a Billy Beane and take away all his shiny toys (scoring guards) and replace them with bruisers. In which case, maybe he would karate chop another clipboard and just quit. Of course then we'd just be a team who slogs through 90 point games and "holds" the other team to 105. The goal is to find the right balance of offense and defense and a coach who knows how and when to flip the switch from one to the other. All of which is easier typed on the internet than actually accomplished by a GM and coaching staff. Many many teams have tried and failed for a lot more than 20 years.

 

[Albatros]

I can't believe anyone would side with Marvelous Marvin in this situation. I don't care If the coach is Lloyd Christmas be a professional. Kings is on the front of the shirt not "team Bagley."

 

[NewArena]

The only reason Fox doesn't have double digit assists tonight is because he's the only King capable of even getting the ball to the rim tonight.

 

[Siranthony]

Well I try to stay out of complaining about the team these days. I'll just say the treadmill never ends. Every year I get my hopes up and watch the house of cards fold like tissue paper. The team losses two in a row and comes out flat. I only watched about 15 minutes and I knew it was over. Sports is over rated.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

TAN-GENT: Gary Payton is, as of 11 November 2021, the only player ranked in the Top 10 of all-time assist leaders who never led the league in assists, in any season.

 

[Jones2006]

As others have mentioned - where is the ball movement ? The guards are not looking to pass out of the pick & roll enough and it’s really limiting the potential of this team. Both Holmes & Len are above average pick & roll threats and finishers in the paint. Add the theoretical penetration from Fox & this is should be an ELITE offense with shooters to spread the floor. Instead, the spacing is terrible and Fox too often settles for jumpers instead of attacking. This not only is inefficient (even if they go in) - but makes the rest of the team uninterested offensively. 1 example of Fox’s lack of team play is - 1 play in the 4th, a Spurs guy went down after falling on a shot … Kings had 5 on 4 with Len rolling hard to the basket. What does Fox do? He shoots a step back 3. I think it went in too but that’s beside the point. It sets a precedent of low IQ offensive basketball. Allen had to do was drive to the basket and it was essentially him & Len vs 1 defender - so an easy 2 points for either.

I’m noticing a lot of low IQ plays offensively when this team has the personnel to have a truly elite offense.

Kings were lucky Fox hit a few shots because
The Kings to model what the Suns did last year. Use the center as the roll guy with the lead guard. And have Barnes / Moe / Hali / Hield spread the floor …. Fox / Mitchell / Hield function as what Paul & Booker do …. The key is to move the ball, and have great spacing.

Are they capable of this? Who knows.

 

[ppine]

SA is not a high scoring team except against teams like the Kings.
The highly touted new defense did not get it done.

 

[ESP47]

They just let the Spurs do just about whatever they wanted. How many times did they just step up and shoot a 3 within the first 10 seconds of the shot clock while the defender played 6ft off them? Or doubling White for no reason whatsoever outside the perimeter, which allowed him to easily kick the ball over to Vassell as soon as the double team came? Eubanks shooting 13 free throws? Who is Eubanks again?

To me, this is all on the coach. Walton is way in over his head. It's like he's just guessing out there and he's getting out coached by every other coach in the league. He guesses on offense, defense and rotations.

It's extremely irritating that the players like him because they'll never win with him. If they are able to randomly get a player better than Fox, they might be able to win despite him but they'll never win because of him.

 

[dude12]

Hield couldn’t shoot into the ocean this game…..Fox’s fault
Spurs we’re unstoppable…..Fox’s fault
Davion was incapable of running the point with any success….Fox’s fault
Davion runs the point while Fox plays off the ball, didn’t work…..Fox’s fault
Fox was the only one capable of scoring, goes nuclear……Fox is selfish
Mo is struggling on offense and now defense….blame Fox
Holmes and HB are disappearing……must be Fox is selfish
Bagley won’t play……Fox’s fault
Walton’s offensive scheme is failing……Fox’s fault
Hali and TD missed the game due to injury……Fox’s fault

DiD I dO iT rIgHt?

 

[dude12]

Walton is the coach the players want but is not the coach they need

 

[sactowndog]

...

Steph Curry is one of he heaviest USG players in the NBA.

Steph is at 30% usage which is pretty low for a dude scoring 27.4 ppts per game. He is 2nd highest in ppg and 18th in usage. Whereas Fox is more typically balanced in usage 27th and points 30th.

 

[sactowndog]

Hield couldn’t shoot into the ocean this game…..Fox’s fault
Spurs we’re unstoppable…..Fox’s fault
Davion was incapable of running the point with any success….Fox’s fault
Davion runs the point while Fox plays off the ball, didn’t work…..Fox’s fault
Fox was the only one capable of scoring, goes nuclear……Fox is selfish
Mo is struggling on offense and now defense….blame Fox
Holmes and HB are disappearing……must be Fox is selfish
Bagley won’t play……Fox’s fault
Walton’s offensive scheme is failing……Fox’s fault
Hali and TD missed the game due to injury……Fox’s fault

DiD I dO iT rIgHt?

Not sure anyone is blaming Fox for this unbalanced line-up. Lots of people are blaming Luke which is equally crazy.

We have a team bereft of forwards: Luke’s fault

We have a score of guards and the majority are poor outside shooters: Luke’s fault

He draws a play up that gets Metu wide open for a lob and our point guard misses him: Luke’s fault.

Hali is our only true high vision guard and is out: Luke’s fault.

DiD I dO iT rIgHt?

Oh and btw we are trending towards our usual 9-11 spot in the draft where the best player available is sure to be another guard: Luke’s fault. Amirite

 

[fansinceday1]

CD had a pretty good show this morning.
the kings have got some serious problems, and the coach isn’t the first one. Fox having 2 good games while Holmes and Barnes don’t and Halliburton is out is the problem. The kings are structurally flawed. And a new coach won’t help that.

 

[kb02]

Fox and Buddy are 2/5 of a starting lineup and 2/9 or 2/10 of a rotation. While they do account for the largest share of our offense, you can't blame the entirety of our poor defense on them. You might just as well have said "how good can Davion Mitchell be defensively if the team he plays on gives up 136 points?". Being near the bottom in team rebounding and giving up tons of second chance points also have a lot to do with it. Playing two SFs and an undersized center for the first and third quarters and then running three or four guard lineups in the fourth quarter is not a great look defensively either.

We all knew the roster was unbalanced this year and there was some hope that a trade would materialize to fix that but so far none has. But Luke Walton has already shown that he favors offense with his lineups, substitutions, and game planning so I don't know that it would matter unless you pull a Billy Beane and take away all his shiny toys (scoring guards) and replace them with bruisers. In which case, maybe he would karate chop another clipboard and just quit. Of course then we'd just be a team who slogs through 90 point games and "holds" the other team to 105. The goal is to find the right balance of offense and defense and a coach who knows how and when to flip the switch from one to the other. All of which is easier typed on the internet than actually accomplished by a GM and coaching staff. Many many teams have tried and failed for a lot more than 20 years.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1458803370714484737

 

[kb02]

CD had a pretty good show this morning.
the kings have got some serious problems, and the coach isn’t the first one. Fox having 2 good games while Holmes and Barnes don’t and Halliburton is out is the problem. The kings are structurally flawed. And a new coach won’t help that.

12 games is sufficient sample size to say Fox, Mitchell, and Hali aren't going to work long term.