Off season targets
- Thread starter cwebb2002
- Start date
I think Philly is a natural trade partner for the Kings and the teams can pull off a trade that balances rosters. If you did go bananas and trade Fox (my favorite player), Buddy and Barnes to the Sixers for Simmons and Harris - those rosters would make some sense.
Kings
Tyrese
Moses Moody
Simmons
Harris
Bagley
not saying it’s a good idea - but it’s interesting.
Kings
Tyrese
Moses Moody
Simmons
Harris
Bagley
not saying it’s a good idea - but it’s interesting.
I almost feel bad for Ben Simmons. 8 boards and 13 assists, but only 4 shots and 5 pts in 36 min in a Game 7 at home - and they can't even play him down the stretch in a tight game. 19 pts across the last 3 games, including 7-20 from the line.
Simmons is owed $147 million over the next 4 years; can't shoot/won't shoot; and now looks like a choker and playoff anchor. Course, with his playmaking, defensive skills, and youth, there'll be a trade market for him - but not what it was as recently as this past offseason.
Just for giggles, the principals: Fox, Barnes and Hield for Simmons, Harris, and Curry
Sixers' starters: 1-Fox, 2-Hield, 3-Thybulle, 4-Barnes, 5-Embiid
Kings' starters: 1-Ty, 2-Curry, 3-Simmons, 4-Harris, 5-Holmes
Sixers get the best player in the deal (Fox) and 3 very good floor-spacers to replace the ones they lose in Harris and Curry. Fox and Embiid together? My goodness.
Kings get better defensively and on the boards, get tougher, but still have three 3-pt shooters in the starting lineup. Even if they lose Holmes, someone like Noel or Hernangomez could work well enough paired with Damian Jones. Myles Turner would be great in that lineup.
Simmons is owed $147 million over the next 4 years; can't shoot/won't shoot; and now looks like a choker and playoff anchor. Course, with his playmaking, defensive skills, and youth, there'll be a trade market for him - but not what it was as recently as this past offseason.
Just for giggles, the principals: Fox, Barnes and Hield for Simmons, Harris, and Curry
Sixers' starters: 1-Fox, 2-Hield, 3-Thybulle, 4-Barnes, 5-Embiid
Kings' starters: 1-Ty, 2-Curry, 3-Simmons, 4-Harris, 5-Holmes
Sixers get the best player in the deal (Fox) and 3 very good floor-spacers to replace the ones they lose in Harris and Curry. Fox and Embiid together? My goodness.
Kings get better defensively and on the boards, get tougher, but still have three 3-pt shooters in the starting lineup. Even if they lose Holmes, someone like Noel or Hernangomez could work well enough paired with Damian Jones. Myles Turner would be great in that lineup.
If we really wanted to trade for Simmons, it’s likely costing us Fox or Haliburton/#9. 24 year old all stars don’t tend to come too cheap.
If you wanted to trade for Simmons, you really need to surround him with consistent, deadly shooters at every position while still have a rim protector on the floor. I think something like this would be interesting…
Fox for Simmons/Reed/#28
and
Wright/Bagley for Porzingis
…you’d be left with…
PG - Haliburton
SG - Hield / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / James / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Reed
C - Porzingis / Holmes / Metu / Jones
Picks - 9, 28, & 39
Don’t think I’d do it (as I’d prefer to try and find great shooters 2-5 to put around Fox) but it would be pretty fun to watch Simmons with all those shooters around him. Perhaps he becomes a Giannis level impact player with worse/less scoring but better passing.
If you wanted to trade for Simmons, you really need to surround him with consistent, deadly shooters at every position while still have a rim protector on the floor. I think something like this would be interesting…
Fox for Simmons/Reed/#28
and
Wright/Bagley for Porzingis
…you’d be left with…
PG - Haliburton
SG - Hield / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / James / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Reed
C - Porzingis / Holmes / Metu / Jones
Picks - 9, 28, & 39
Don’t think I’d do it (as I’d prefer to try and find great shooters 2-5 to put around Fox) but it would be pretty fun to watch Simmons with all those shooters around him. Perhaps he becomes a Giannis level impact player with worse/less scoring but better passing.
Last edited:
It doesn’t. And it’s why i would much prefer to try and find the right fit around Fox. It just so happens that we already had great fitting players for Simmons 1-3 (Haliburton, Hield, & Barnes) and just needed to added the 5 (Porzingis). For Fox, he needs the right fit at both the 4 & 5. Maybe you move the #9 for Jerami Grant, Pascal Siakam, or Christian Wood while moving some
Combo of Hield/Bagley/Wright for Porzingis. Then you’re left with Fox-Halliburton-Barnes-Grant/Siakam/Wood-Porzingis. That would be some great spacing for Fox.
Just a more complex path to get to that sort of team vs. if we had Simmons.
Combo of Hield/Bagley/Wright for Porzingis. Then you’re left with Fox-Halliburton-Barnes-Grant/Siakam/Wood-Porzingis. That would be some great spacing for Fox.
Just a more complex path to get to that sort of team vs. if we had Simmons.
I agree with the bit about Simmons. He can excel on a team where he's surrounding with nothing but shooters. Playing with Haliburton/Hield/Barnes would be a dream come true for him.
However, I pause at trading Fox for Simmons because I think Fox is the better player. Would want more back from Philly, but there's no one else on that team that would give good value. On the other hand... if Embiid had Fox instead of Simmons, I think they'd be finals contenders.
However, I pause at trading Fox for Simmons because I think Fox is the better player. Would want more back from Philly, but there's no one else on that team that would give good value. On the other hand... if Embiid had Fox instead of Simmons, I think they'd be finals contenders.
Absolutely.
I think of him as a Rajon Rondo type playmaker. One that doesn’t shoot it well or even score all that much most the time, but does so many other things well that lead to winning.
Even Jason Kidd kinda fits into that category.
Both were part of title winning teams. Both were great defenders, ball handlers, and playmakers. But neither were players you wanted to take a last shot. Or even have them create for themselves in the final minutes.
That‘s what Ben Simmons is. Except he’s 6-10 with long arms.
Did anyone notice how difficult he made it on Trae Young at times to bring the ball into the front court? He turned him over once and almost another time late in GM7.
Because he’s a PG masquerading in PF’s body, some people forget what he is.
Ben Simmons can absolutely be an integral part of a championship winning team as Rondo and Kidd were. And he doesn’t have to be a shooter/scorer to do it.
Unlike Rondo or Kidd, Simmons can defend all 5 positions. He’s truly a unique player.
If I were the KINGS I’d do anything I could to pry him away from Philly. If they could manage to pair him with Fox or Hali (I assume one would have to be included in a trade for him) I believe it’d start the upward ascension.
I think of him as a Rajon Rondo type playmaker. One that doesn’t shoot it well or even score all that much most the time, but does so many other things well that lead to winning.
Even Jason Kidd kinda fits into that category.
Both were part of title winning teams. Both were great defenders, ball handlers, and playmakers. But neither were players you wanted to take a last shot. Or even have them create for themselves in the final minutes.
That‘s what Ben Simmons is. Except he’s 6-10 with long arms.
Did anyone notice how difficult he made it on Trae Young at times to bring the ball into the front court? He turned him over once and almost another time late in GM7.
Because he’s a PG masquerading in PF’s body, some people forget what he is.
Ben Simmons can absolutely be an integral part of a championship winning team as Rondo and Kidd were. And he doesn’t have to be a shooter/scorer to do it.
Unlike Rondo or Kidd, Simmons can defend all 5 positions. He’s truly a unique player.
If I were the KINGS I’d do anything I could to pry him away from Philly. If they could manage to pair him with Fox or Hali (I assume one would have to be included in a trade for him) I believe it’d start the upward ascension.
Last edited:
I'm not seeing it taking as much for Simmons anymore. That was an epic choke job. The dude has Markelle Fultz syndrome and a huge $170m contract is a risk. Phili is a tough fanbase and they want him gone. His name is gonna be all over the trade market. You don't have to pry him away anymore, he's goin somewhere. No way will he regain confidence in Phili.
Barnes, Bagley, the 9th -for- Simmons and the 28th. Thats better than what we got for Cousins. Get er done Monte!
Barnes, Bagley, the 9th -for- Simmons and the 28th. Thats better than what we got for Cousins. Get er done Monte!
I agree, but that's an interesting framework -- Turner's spacing would be a big help to maximize Simmons, but not sure Indy would or should trade both Sabonis and Brogdon for Simmons (and the Kings or someone else would make more sense as a Sabonis landing spot than Philly). More likely, the Kings would have to make up value for Philly, with the Pacers keeping Brodgon, or the Kings would have to send more value to Indiana.
If Simmons ended up in Portland w/ Dame Time ..... look out!
Honestly, that might be as good a fit as any for him. Maybe the Warriors would be better. Think of Simmons having Steph and Klay around him. And teaming up with Draymond defensively. That'd be crazy.
But Simmons teaming up with Lillard seems like a crazy good match. Simmons would be the all-everything glue guy offensively and defensively -- basically Portland's version of Draymond Green -- and Dame of course is the closer.
Honestly, that might be as good a fit as any for him. Maybe the Warriors would be better. Think of Simmons having Steph and Klay around him. And teaming up with Draymond defensively. That'd be crazy.
But Simmons teaming up with Lillard seems like a crazy good match. Simmons would be the all-everything glue guy offensively and defensively -- basically Portland's version of Draymond Green -- and Dame of course is the closer.
I feel like something like Buddy plus this year's pick plus a conditional first in the next year's draft (lotto protected) might actually be enough to get it done. The Sixers get Brogdan and future cap relief with Lamb's expiring and our first. Pacers get Buddy and Simmons and our conditional first. We get Domas.
Sixers:
Embiid
Harris
Green
Brogdan
Curry
---
9th pick 2021 NBA draft
Maxey
Thybulle
Pacers:
Turner
Warren
LeVert
Buddy
Simmons
---
McBuckets
Holiday
Holiday
Kings:
Sabonis
Bagley
Barnes
Haliburton
Fox
---
Wright
Davis
(MLE FA)
Jones/Metu
Walton finally gets a big man who can actually run all those stupid horn sets that he likes to run without pooping all over himself. Sabonis gets the deadly guard pairing that Dipo/Brogdan was supposed to be. Interior defense (and defense in general) remains an issue but you wager on being able to keep other teams on their heels on offense enough to limit their scoring/ use the MLE (not necessarily all of it) on a defensive vet wing (Batum/Iguodala/Harkless) or slightly more consistent role-player big (Noel/Mo Wagner/Dieng/Robin Lopez). I mean, there are still certainly some issues with the roster but Sabonis/Fox/Haliburton is probably at least good enough to get you to the 6/7/8/9/10 seed range unless Walton really Waltons really Lukeing hard.
Sixers:
Embiid
Harris
Green
Brogdan
Curry
---
9th pick 2021 NBA draft
Maxey
Thybulle
Pacers:
Turner
Warren
LeVert
Buddy
Simmons
---
McBuckets
Holiday
Holiday
Kings:
Sabonis
Bagley
Barnes
Haliburton
Fox
---
Wright
Davis
(MLE FA)
Jones/Metu
Walton finally gets a big man who can actually run all those stupid horn sets that he likes to run without pooping all over himself. Sabonis gets the deadly guard pairing that Dipo/Brogdan was supposed to be. Interior defense (and defense in general) remains an issue but you wager on being able to keep other teams on their heels on offense enough to limit their scoring/ use the MLE (not necessarily all of it) on a defensive vet wing (Batum/Iguodala/Harkless) or slightly more consistent role-player big (Noel/Mo Wagner/Dieng/Robin Lopez). I mean, there are still certainly some issues with the roster but Sabonis/Fox/Haliburton is probably at least good enough to get you to the 6/7/8/9/10 seed range unless Walton really Waltons really Lukeing hard.
Rajon Rondo and Jason Kidd say "hi".
If those two could help their teams contend every season and even win a title w/ essentially the same flaws, why can't Simmons?
Historically, Rondo is as statistically bad from the FT line as Simmons and Kidd's FT% was in the 60's his first 5 seasons.
Kidd became a pretty good 3pt shooter as he got older, but neither Kidd nor Rondo were strong shooters or great scorers.
Kidd's average PPG usually hovered in the mid-teens just like Simmons.
Would you not have wanted either of those players in their primes?
If those two could help their teams contend every season and even win a title w/ essentially the same flaws, why can't Simmons?
Historically, Rondo is as statistically bad from the FT line as Simmons and Kidd's FT% was in the 60's his first 5 seasons.
Kidd became a pretty good 3pt shooter as he got older, but neither Kidd nor Rondo were strong shooters or great scorers.
Kidd's average PPG usually hovered in the mid-teens just like Simmons.
Would you not have wanted either of those players in their primes?
Last edited: