Big Trade Targets

#31
First off, I hightly doubt he was going off script with those shots. That's all he really got most of the time. If he did then I blame Vlade. Incentive based contracts are dubious when you're talking about hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars swinging one way or the other based on the types of shots you take or make. It fools with the integrity of the game. Well, what little integrity is left in the NBA.
I'm sure to a certain extent he has a green light to shoot 3s on an open look. Plenty of times these happen on fast breaks or broken plays when there are easy layups to be had, but as we all know, the default across the league now is to shoot a 3 instead.
 
#32
I'm sure to a certain extent he has a green light to shoot 3s on an open look. Plenty of times these happen on fast breaks or broken plays when there are easy layups to be had, but as we all know, the default across the league now is to shoot a 3 instead.
And he's great at it. I just hate incentive based deals where how you play factors in beyond pure team success. It changes the way anyone would look the game naturally and when you can't trust the brain power, common sense, or the financial stability of your ownership it gets dicey.

That said, I was looking over some of his contract details and if true he's got 500,000 coming for having less than 2 TO's a game. That right there makes me wonder if they ran him at PG specifically to make sure he didn't reach that and he barely scraped by to get it. And also it explains why Buddy played the last few games. If what I read was correct he had to play in at least 70 games to do it, he played in 71. Imagine if they sat him down and the issues that would have created. Instead they may have played him hoping for Butter Fingers Buddy to show up and save the boss a quick half mil. It just simply creates an underlying awkwardness and temptation that runs opposite of a more natural process as to how anyone would approach the game. Whatever math nerd in the FO who is in love with deals like this can hit the bricks too once the clock strikes midnight.
 
#33
  1. Chicago Bulls Receive: PF Marvin Bagley III
    Sacramento Kings Receive: PF Lauri Markkanen (via sign-and-trade)
    This is a swap of power forwards whose teams are likely afraid to commit to them, with Bagley and Markkanen both getting to benefit from a fresh start.
    Bagley will be entering the final year of his rookie deal. Injuries have killed his first three seasons (he's played 118 games), though the 22-year-old played well in his six contests down the stretch (15.8 points, 7.2 rebounds, 51.4 percent shooting in 26.8 minutes per game).
    Despite his talent, the Kings should be hesitant to give him a long-term deal given his injury history.
    Markkanen hasn't been an example of good health either, but he's at least played 50 or more games in all four of his seasons and would be the safer choice for Sacramento.
    The Kings have a spot for Markkanen as the starting power forward, an environment in which he can keep the driving lanes open for De'Aaron Fox while
    The 24-year-old averaged 17.3 points and 5.9 rebounds per game and shot 37.9 percent from three as a starter this season, but his role diminished after the Bulls traded for Nikola Vucevic in late March. Chicago most certainly won't want to give a backup a big new deal, but it wouldn't be ideal to lose Markkanen for nothing via restricted free agency, either.
    Bagley would buy the Bulls another year before they have to commit significant money, and his ceiling is higher than that of Markkanen.
Link:
1 Offseason Trade for Every NBA Team That Missed the Playoffs | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

I would be down with this trade, Then Kings can use MLE to get Daniel Theis in FA, Since Holmes most likely gone
Hopefully we dont have to break the bank to get Markkanen and Theis.
I think this is more realistic than my earlier proposals

Fox, Wright
Tryrese,Buddy,TD
Barnes, 9th Pick?
Markkanen, Metu
Theis ,Jones
 
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#37
Also, not for nothing, Lauri is one of the guys that could set the market for Bagley, so I think waiting to see what he and Jarrett Allen, John Collins and Zach Collins get would be a big barometer of what it might take to keep Bagley.
 
#38
Also, not for nothing, Lauri is one of the guys that could set the market for Bagley, so I think waiting to see what he and Jarrett Allen, John Collins and Zach Collins get would be a big barometer of what it might take to keep Bagley.
Yes let's wait for Jarrett Allen to get that 100M extension to set the barometer, Then Bagley stays healthy, has great contract year, and as a RFA huge offer sheet is so big the Kings do not match and he leaves with no compensation. Bogie, Holmes and Bagley all gone for NADA.

If sign and trade for Markkanen is for reasonable amount, we get a starter PF at reasonable cost instead of Bagley huge contract(followed by injury years)/ or gone for nothing.

Yep that's a great strategy pdx!
 
#39
Yep that's a great strategy pdx!
You basically want to trade whatever potential Bagley has, and you are acknowledging his potential to become the player we wanted and earn himself a great deal, which WHY WOULDN'T WE MATCH???? to trade for a guy who is basically Bjelica.

Incidentally, his contract more likely to be somewhere between where Lauri and Zach end up.
 
#40
I don't think we should be eying "big trade targets." We should have been looking at some smaller moves that go towards a proper rebuild. Something like...

  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Marvin Bagley for a 1st round pick (ORL #15, MIN #17, or DAL #18). I would have drafted Saddiq Bey at #15-18.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Buddy Hield for Al Horford, 2020 OKC 1st, 2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected). I would have drafted Jaden McDaniels at #25.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Richaun Holmes & 2020 SAC 2nd for Enes Kanter, Vincent Poirer, & 2020 BOS 1st. I would have drafted Desmond Bane at #26.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Nemanja Bjelica & 2020 DET 2nd for Ed Davis, Juwan Morgan, & 2020 UTA 1st. I would have drafted Tyler Bey at #27.
  • 2020 Free Agency: Trade Bogdan Bogdanovic & Justin James for Donte DiVincenzo, Ersan Ilyasova, & DJ Wilson
  • 2020-21 Trade Deadline: Trading Harrison Barnes for Aaron Nesmith and 2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)

That leaves you with a lineup of...

PG - Fox / DiVincenzo / Joseph / Guy
SG - Haliburton / Bane
SF - Nesmith / Jeffries / Wilson
PF - S. Bey / McDaniels / T. Bey / Ilyasova / Parker / Morgan
C - Horford / Kanter / Davis / Poirer

...while also having the following 1sts over the next couple of years...

2021 SAC 1st
2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)
2022 SAC 1st
2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)

Consider that lineup is made up of so many young guys, I would imagine our 2021 SAC 1st would have had a great chance at falling into the Top 5 in this year's draft (vs. us sticking with our vets and trying to win a few more games).


As of today, how many of you would rather have the following assets (or something close to it)...

  1. De'Aaron Fox
  2. Donte DiVincenzo
  3. Tyrese Haliburton
  4. Desmond Bane
  5. Aaron Nesmith
  6. DaQuan Jeffries
  7. Saddiq Bey
  8. Jaden McDaniels
  9. Tyler Bey
  10. 2021 SAC 1st
  11. 2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)
  12. 2022 SAC 1st
  13. 2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)
...vs. the assets we have today? I know how I'm answering...
 
#41
You basically want to trade whatever potential Bagley has, and you are acknowledging his potential to become the player we wanted and earn himself a great deal, which WHY WOULDN'T WE MATCH???? to trade for a guy who is basically Bjelica.

Incidentally, his contract more likely to be somewhere between where Lauri and Zach end up.
Yes I am because if Bagley does reach potential, then we can not afford to match , that is why we would not match but end up losing him for nothing

Yes to trading for Bjelica for long term Bjelica money hoping his potential ends up as a healthy Porzingas on a Bjelica contract dollars.
 
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#42
I don't think we should be eying "big trade targets." We should have been looking at some smaller moves that go towards a proper rebuild. Something like...

  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Marvin Bagley for a 1st round pick (ORL #15, MIN #17, or DAL #18). I would have drafted Saddiq Bey at #15-18.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Buddy Hield for Al Horford, 2020 OKC 1st, 2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected). I would have drafted Jaden McDaniels at #25.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Richaun Holmes & 2020 SAC 2nd for Enes Kanter, Vincent Poirer, & 2020 BOS 1st. I would have drafted Desmond Bane at #26.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Nemanja Bjelica & 2020 DET 2nd for Ed Davis, Juwan Morgan, & 2020 UTA 1st. I would have drafted Tyler Bey at #27.
  • 2020 Free Agency: Trade Bogdan Bogdanovic & Justin James for Donte DiVincenzo, Ersan Ilyasova, & DJ Wilson
  • 2020-21 Trade Deadline: Trading Harrison Barnes for Aaron Nesmith and 2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)

That leaves you with a lineup of...

PG - Fox / DiVincenzo / Joseph / Guy
SG - Haliburton / Bane
SF - Nesmith / Jeffries / Wilson
PF - S. Bey / McDaniels / T. Bey / Ilyasova / Parker / Morgan
C - Horford / Kanter / Davis / Poirer

...while also having the following 1sts over the next couple of years...

2021 SAC 1st
2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)
2022 SAC 1st
2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)

Consider that lineup is made up of so many young guys, I would imagine our 2021 SAC 1st would have had a great chance at falling into the Top 5 in this year's draft (vs. us sticking with our vets and trying to win a few more games).


As of today, how many of you would rather have the following assets (or something close to it)...

  1. De'Aaron Fox
  2. Donte DiVincenzo
  3. Tyrese Haliburton
  4. Desmond Bane
  5. Aaron Nesmith
  6. DaQuan Jeffries
  7. Saddiq Bey
  8. Jaden McDaniels
  9. Tyler Bey
  10. 2021 SAC 1st
  11. 2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)
  12. 2022 SAC 1st
  13. 2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)
...vs. the assets we have today? I know how I'm answering...
Yeah, what could have beens! haha. They gave it a shot though and I would imagine keeping Walton means there probably won't be any major changes on the horizon. They let Bogdan walk so I'm sure letting Holmes walk isn't out of the question but after 20-25 games of next season they better have a clear picture of where they are heading because if not we might have to wait until Dumars is ousted until some sense can be made.
 
#43
I don't think we should be eying "big trade targets." We should have been looking at some smaller moves that go towards a proper rebuild. Something like...

  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Marvin Bagley for a 1st round pick (ORL #15, MIN #17, or DAL #18). I would have drafted Saddiq Bey at #15-18.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Buddy Hield for Al Horford, 2020 OKC 1st, 2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected). I would have drafted Jaden McDaniels at #25.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Richaun Holmes & 2020 SAC 2nd for Enes Kanter, Vincent Poirer, & 2020 BOS 1st. I would have drafted Desmond Bane at #26.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Nemanja Bjelica & 2020 DET 2nd for Ed Davis, Juwan Morgan, & 2020 UTA 1st. I would have drafted Tyler Bey at #27.
  • 2020 Free Agency: Trade Bogdan Bogdanovic & Justin James for Donte DiVincenzo, Ersan Ilyasova, & DJ Wilson
  • 2020-21 Trade Deadline: Trading Harrison Barnes for Aaron Nesmith and 2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)

That leaves you with a lineup of...

PG - Fox / DiVincenzo / Joseph / Guy
SG - Haliburton / Bane
SF - Nesmith / Jeffries / Wilson
PF - S. Bey / McDaniels / T. Bey / Ilyasova / Parker / Morgan
C - Horford / Kanter / Davis / Poirer

...while also having the following 1sts over the next couple of years...

2021 SAC 1st
2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)
2022 SAC 1st
2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)

Consider that lineup is made up of so many young guys, I would imagine our 2021 SAC 1st would have had a great chance at falling into the Top 5 in this year's draft (vs. us sticking with our vets and trying to win a few more games).


As of today, how many of you would rather have the following assets (or something close to it)...

  1. De'Aaron Fox
  2. Donte DiVincenzo
  3. Tyrese Haliburton
  4. Desmond Bane
  5. Aaron Nesmith
  6. DaQuan Jeffries
  7. Saddiq Bey
  8. Jaden McDaniels
  9. Tyler Bey
  10. 2021 SAC 1st
  11. 2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)
  12. 2022 SAC 1st
  13. 2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)
...vs. the assets we have today? I know how I'm answering...
I’d say most of the board would be happy with that. However I’m not sure any of those deals were on the table.

Bagley had been hurt and has had questionable value ever since. I don’t think asset collecting OKC gives up 2 firsts for Buddy Hield even if it does get them off Horfords contract. Nemanja couldn’t even fetch a second rounder a year later and Boston didn’t do anything to indicate they were trading for Barnes or anyone else long term
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#45
I don't think we should be eying "big trade targets." We should have been looking at some smaller moves that go towards a proper rebuild. Something like...

  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Marvin Bagley for a 1st round pick (ORL #15, MIN #17, or DAL #18). I would have drafted Saddiq Bey at #15-18.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Buddy Hield for Al Horford, 2020 OKC 1st, 2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected). I would have drafted Jaden McDaniels at #25.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Richaun Holmes & 2020 SAC 2nd for Enes Kanter, Vincent Poirer, & 2020 BOS 1st. I would have drafted Desmond Bane at #26.
  • 2020 Draft Night: Trade Nemanja Bjelica & 2020 DET 2nd for Ed Davis, Juwan Morgan, & 2020 UTA 1st. I would have drafted Tyler Bey at #27.
  • 2020 Free Agency: Trade Bogdan Bogdanovic & Justin James for Donte DiVincenzo, Ersan Ilyasova, & DJ Wilson
  • 2020-21 Trade Deadline: Trading Harrison Barnes for Aaron Nesmith and 2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)

That leaves you with a lineup of...

PG - Fox / DiVincenzo / Joseph / Guy
SG - Haliburton / Bane
SF - Nesmith / Jeffries / Wilson
PF - S. Bey / McDaniels / T. Bey / Ilyasova / Parker / Morgan
C - Horford / Kanter / Davis / Poirer

...while also having the following 1sts over the next couple of years...

2021 SAC 1st
2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)
2022 SAC 1st
2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)

Consider that lineup is made up of so many young guys, I would imagine our 2021 SAC 1st would have had a great chance at falling into the Top 5 in this year's draft (vs. us sticking with our vets and trying to win a few more games).


As of today, how many of you would rather have the following assets (or something close to it)...

  1. De'Aaron Fox
  2. Donte DiVincenzo
  3. Tyrese Haliburton
  4. Desmond Bane
  5. Aaron Nesmith
  6. DaQuan Jeffries
  7. Saddiq Bey
  8. Jaden McDaniels
  9. Tyler Bey
  10. 2021 SAC 1st
  11. 2021 BOS 1st (Lottery Protected)
  12. 2022 SAC 1st
  13. 2022 PHI 1st (Top 10 Protected)
...vs. the assets we have today? I know how I'm answering...
I mean it’s all hypothetical and won’t happen.....but the Kings aren’t going to gut their roster to rebuild while they have a Max player on the roster.
 
#46
Why could we not afford to match? Almost certainly when you draft a guy #2 overall you plan around a max contract.
Because 22-23 year we will already have 69 mil due for 3 players, 20mil for Bagley puts us at 89m for 4 players Yikes!
So we have to pay someone to take Buddy, loose 3 pt shooting, to sign a 20mil per yr for injury risk player?
Thats why i want long term 12 m yr Bjelica contract in Marrkanen sign and trade

Think its time to agree to disagree
 
#47
Bagley is a net negative. Meaning he could play for free and he would still bring negative value to the team. Why is anyone talking about a max contract? He's overpaid by about 5x as we sit right now.
 
#48
Firstly Bagley has great offensive potential but suffers from a lack of heart and will to be exceptional. He is more comfortable resting on his potential than achieving great essence. He's basically the PF version of Andrew Wiggins except he cant even stay healthy, aka a modern Al Harrington or Corey Maggette. The thing is, he can fill up an offensive stat sheet so will always get good money, but unless his attitude (and that of his pops) changes, he will never contribute to winning games. So he can be a good but not great player and is not a culture builder.

I say try to package him to a team that can benefit from his good qualities and doesnt need him as a cultural centerpiece. Indiana (with Brogdan, Sabonis, Lavert as their main guys) or Philly (where he can give fits playing along side Embied or Simons) may be ideal trade partners. Package him with buddy for Tobias Harris and he really could help philly win a championship, or send them to Indiana for Myles Turner and their offensive firepower could help the pacers be a step closer to being a contender. In both cases their are established stars at the center that will mask their defensive deficiencies.

Ideally I'd like to send him buddy (and probably a 2022 pick swap and it may take future second rounders or maybe 2023 1st) to Philly for Tobias Harris (who was not only offensively good but this year was defensively much improved). Additionally i think the pacers will look to move myles turner. Packaging Barnes (who I actually love on this team) and the 2021 1st would be able to return turner and filler (ideally Sumner who will be reasonable insurance if they cant keep TD). Turner give them the luxury of playing PF if they can retain Holmes or C if they cant. Regarding Holmes i would use the MLE on him for 4yr/40M. If that cant get it done, i would go up to 4/48M with 13, 13, 12, 10 so put him on a lower salary when Turner and subsequently Hali comes up for renewal. If you lose him beyond this, good luck to him. However that is as high as it gets, that puts him above DeAndre Jordan, Steven Adams (although he makes more per year on a shorter deal), Ayton and Valencunis, and on par with Nurkic who I'd say is in the aame production level as him (though holmes has difficulty guarding the bigger guys).