The ONE AND ONLY Luka Doncic discussion thread

[VF21]

Why not just check a box score then instead of continuing to insinuate that Carlisle did something that he didn't actually do?

I insinuated nothing. There were qualifiers to my comments, which is pretty standard practice around here. Of course, maybe I'm doing it just to drive you guys nuts since any even remotely resembling possible criticism of Luka Doncic (or apparently Rick Carlisle) seems to be your clarion call.

You're assuming that I care about this as much as you do. That's simply not true. I am a Kings fan. He's not a King, so for me this is speculative more than anything else. My comment about Carlisle, however, is true - just as it would be if his name was Spoelstra, Jackson, Popovich or even Adelman.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Why not just check a box score then instead of continuing to insinuate that Carlisle did something that he didn't actually do?

She didn't actually insinuate anything; it's almost like she posted that while the game was still being played. Box scores are super useful, after the fact, but they're not particularly effective for helping to project what's happening in real time.

 

[SLAB]

You're trying too hard. I'm perfectly honest. Any coach who would leave a player of Luka's caliber in when the game is that far out of the opponent's reach is a fool, especially this early in the season when the Mavericks are cowcrap without him. If Carlisle continues to do that, it's just a matter of time until something bad happens...and that has nothing at all to do with my personal thoughts about Luka, the Kings, or anything else. It's consistent with comments I've made time and time again about leaving players in the game when they're not needed. Risk v. reward, my friend. Not bitterness.

See, that’s a more reasonable and agreeable post. The “Superstar you’re all convinced he is” and “Mavs are irrelevant without him” (true, but that could be said of any franchise with a superstar See Cavs/LeBron) comments in the first one are what pushed it over the top.

 

[hrdboild]

To be fair, garbage time started the second the Warriors stepped onto the court,

I've never had a reason to use this word before in casual conversation, but I believe the only appropriate response to a post of this quality is: Boomshakalaka! Cause the Warriors are bad this year! And yet, it feels so good.

 

[sergmatt]

I insinuated nothing. There were qualifiers to my comments, which is pretty standard practice around here. Of course, maybe I'm doing it just to drive you guys nuts since any even remotely resembling possible criticism of Luka Doncic (or apparently Rick Carlisle) seems to be your clarion call.

You're assuming that I care about this as much as you do. That's simply not true. I am a Kings fan. He's not a King, so for me this is speculative more than anything else. My comment about Carlisle, however, is true - just as it would be if his name was Spoelstra, Jackson, Popovich or even Adelman.

Apparently you do care at least a little since you've decided to venture into the forsaken thread. By the way I love people in general profess "not to care" about various things and yet spend any amount of time on the subject they don't care about.

Your first post about Luka/Carlisle was time stamped after Luka had already come out of the game. Now to be fair to you it may have been 10-15 minutes or so before you actually hit send and thus the odd timing. However the optics aren't so good when you're making this preemptive argument that Carlisle is running Luka into the ground and that Luka is a stat padder............and meanwhile Luka's already sitting on the bench after 26 minutes.

And before anybody even brings it up, leaving Luka on the bench for the entire second half was never going to happen. As Kings fans we've seen more than once (good and bad) what can happen to 28-30 point leads in just one quarter.

 

[VF21]

See, that’s a more reasonable and agreeable post. The “Superstar you’re all convinced he is” and “Mavs are irrelevant without him” (true, but that could be said of any franchise with a superstar See Cavs/LeBron) comments in the first one are what pushed it over the top.

You're making my point for me. The fact those comments could be said of any franchise with a superstar is why I said them. You only took it to be over the top because I said it. Had someone else made that post, I'm pretty sure your reaction would have been different. You expect a certain bias from me that isn't always there. In this instance, I was honestly talking about the dangers of risking Doncic in a game that was pretty much decided by the end of the 2nd quarter (from what I gather).

I don't like Rick Calisle. I never have. I think he at times will make decisions that aren't actually in the best interests of his players.

I'll bow out now, but I hope you can understand that not every comment I make about Luka is some hidden code for "He's fool's gold" or "He's over-rated" or anything like that. He's doing incredibly well so far. I hope it continues for many years. I'm just not on the ledge over the fact it won't be in a Kings uniform.

 

[SLAB]

Naaaa, the “Superstar you all think he is” line would have drawn my ire from anyone.

 

[hrdboild]

I insinuated nothing. There were qualifiers to my comments, which is pretty standard practice around here. Of course, maybe I'm doing it just to drive you guys nuts since any even remotely resembling possible criticism of Luka Doncic (or apparently Rick Carlisle) seems to be your clarion call.

You're assuming that I care about this as much as you do. That's simply not true. I am a Kings fan. He's not a King, so for me this is speculative more than anything else. My comment about Carlisle, however, is true - just as it would be if his name was Spoelstra, Jackson, Popovich or even Adelman.

You were spot on. That team would be unwatchably bad if something happened to Luka. I would guess that nobody was playing hard at that point in the game anyway so there wasn't much harm in leaving him in for another 5 min or so, but still. It would have looked real bad if something did happen.

I also hope that at some point you're able to look past all the chest pounding taking place here (which is a bit much I agree, even as a Luka, err, enthusiast I guess is the right word) and enjoy watching the kid play basketball sometime just as a fan of the game. We only play the Mavs 3 or 4 times a year. The rest of the time you can still enjoy seeing a unique talent do his thing every once in awhile. It'd be a shame if the very vocal contingent of draft mourners here have ruined any chance of that for you forever. I'm a Kings fan but I can still appreciate a good play regardless of team affiliation. Nothing Luka does at this point is actively harming the Kings anyway, unless it's the playoffs in which case he's just gonna have to lose, obviously.

 

[VF21]

Apparently you do care at least a little since you've decided to venture into the forsaken thread. By the way I love people in general profess "not to care" about various things and yet spend any amount of time on the subject they don't care about.

Your first post about Luka/Carlisle was time stamped after Luka had already come out of the game. Now to be fair to you it may have been 10-15 minutes or so before you actually hit send and thus the odd timing. However the optics aren't so good when you're making this preemptive argument that Carlisle is running Luka into the ground and that Luka is a stat padder............and meanwhile Luka's already sitting on the bench after 26 minutes.

And before anybody even brings it up, leaving Luka on the bench for the entire second half was never going to happen. As Kings fans we've seen more than once (good and bad) what can happen to 28-30 point leads in just one quarter.

I WASN'T WATCHING THE GAME. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS HAPPENING, which is why I made the disclaimer I did. I reacted to a post in my real time when I saw it. My comment was that IF Carlisle was running Luka into the ground just so he could improve his stats, he (Carlisle) is an idiot. Since he wasn't, it all becomes moot.

Optics? Please. I'm a female poster/moderator on a professional sports team message board. I've held my own in that regard for over 18 years. I'm not concerned with optics. I speak my truth and go from there.

 

[VF21]

Naaaa, the “Superstar you all think he is” line would have drawn my ire from anyone.

Fair enough. I could have left out "you all think he is" and substituted "he appears to be so far"...

 

[hrdboild]

Naaaa, the “Superstar you all think he is” line would have drawn my ire from anyone.

Probably, but a little jab here or there is fair game right? She was still making a good point.

 

[VF21]

You were spot on. That team would be unwatchably bad if something happened to Luka. I would guess that nobody was playing hard at that point in the game anyway so there wasn't much harm in leaving him in for another 5 min or so, but still. It would have looked real bad if something did happen.

I also hope that at some point you're able to look past all the chest pounding taking place here (which is a bit much I agree, even as a Luka, err, enthusiast I guess is the right word) and enjoy watching the kid play basketball sometime just as a fan of the game. We only play the Mavs 3 or 4 times a year. The rest of the time you can still enjoy seeing a unique talent do his thing every once in awhile. It'd be a shame if the very vocal contingent of draft mourners here have ruined any chance of that for you forever. I'm a Kings fan but I can still appreciate a good play regardless of team affiliation. Nothing Luka does at this point is actively harming the Kings anyway, unless it's the playoffs in which case he's just gonna have to lose, obviously.

You've hit the nail on the head. I feel sometimes like I cannot just watch Luka without being obligated to worship at the altar of his greatness. Like I said earlier, I wanted us to draft Doncic. I'd love to be able to enjoy watching him and talk about his talent/skills/achievements but I don't feel I can do that without being attacked/ridiculed/criticized for not being one of his apostles so to speak.

Your post makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

 

[Joshoua]

Luka got a triple double on his load management day, your move Kawhi

 

[sergmatt]

I WASN'T WATCHING THE GAME. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS HAPPENING, which is why I made the disclaimer I did. I reacted to a post in my real time when I saw it. My comment was that IF Carlisle was running Luka into the ground just so he could improve his stats, he (Carlisle) is an idiot. Since he wasn't, it all becomes moot..

Correct but before you start labeling Rick Carlisle an idiot in advance and making these profound statements about running Luka into the ground wouldn't it be a good idea to at least confirm first?

And nobody is attacking you or anybody else for just watching Luka play. Making snide remarks like "the superstar you all think he is" sure appears to be some sort of passive aggressive shot at the Luka "apostles" (another?). That's fine but don't think people aren't going to notice.

 

[sergmatt]

Luka got a triple double on his load management day, your move Kawhi

Kawhi will see Luka's triple double and raise it another load management day.

The triple doubles are great but I'll take a Kawhi 26/8/6 type of game along with incredible defense any day over a Luka triple-double.

I like Luka a ton but let's be honest, t their current very best, Luka can not impact a game on both ends the way that Kawhi does.

 

[hrdboild]

You've hit the nail on the head. I feel sometimes like I cannot just watch Luka without being obligated to worship at the altar of his greatness. Like I said earlier, I wanted us to draft Doncic. I'd love to be able to enjoy watching him and talk about his talent/skills/achievements but I don't feel I can do that without being attacked/ridiculed/criticized for not being one of his apostles so to speak.

Your post makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

Yeah, I get it. I remember you wanted us to draft Luka too and it's unfair to be treated like an irrational fan just for saying "let's give Marvin Bagley a chance". It's hard for me to look past the disappointment of that decision, but I will admit that yours is the more rational take. And I think we've all made a comment or two in the heat of the moment that we regret. It read to me that you were actually extending an olive branch here which I do appreciate, so I just wanted to help make sure SLAB saw that.

Also... Luka is a great player, but the universe hasn't ended now that he's playing for Marc (shudder) Cuban (dry heave). And I share your distaste for Rick Carlisle. Admitting that the best thing he can do right now is stay out of Luka's way is probably the best move he's ever made as a head coach!

 

[Joshoua]

Kawhi will see Luka's triple double and raise it another load management day.

The triple doubles are great but I'll take a Kawhi 26/8/6 type of game along with incredible defense any day over a Luka triple-double.

I like Luka a ton but let's be honest, t their current very best, Luka can not impact a game on both ends the way that Kawhi does.

and Luka would take playing with all time players like Kawhi has done his whole career

 

[VF21]

Correct but before you start labeling Rick Carlisle an idiot in advance and making these profound statements about running Luka into the ground wouldn't it be a good idea to at least confirm first?

And nobody is attacking you or anybody else for just watching Luka play. Making snide remarks like "the superstar you all think he is" sure appears to be some sort of passive aggressive shot at the Luka "apostles" (another?). That's fine but don't think people aren't going to notice.

LOL. Now you're just being silly. You choose not to understand what I'm saying, which is fine. I choose not to argue the point with you any further.

 

[hrdboild]

Correct but before you start labeling Rick Carlisle an idiot in advance and making these profound statements about running Luka into the ground wouldn't it be a good idea to at least confirm first?

And nobody is attacking you or anybody else for just watching Luka play. Making snide remarks like "the superstar you all think he is" sure appears to be some sort of passive aggressive shot at the Luka "apostles" (another?). That's fine but don't think people aren't going to notice.

The snide comments have come from all sides on this topic though. Sometimes you just have to look past the words themselves and see the intent behind them. Otherwise we'll go on arguing forever.

 

[sergmatt]

Otherwise we'll go on arguing forever.

Isn't that what keeps Kingsfans.com alive?

Arguing is the lifeblood of any forum lol

 

[hrdboild]

Kawhi will see Luka's triple double and raise it another load management day.

The triple doubles are great but I'll take a Kawhi 26/8/6 type of game along with incredible defense any day over a Luka triple-double.

I like Luka a ton but let's be honest, t their current very best, Luka can not impact a game on both ends the way that Kawhi does.

Now see this right here is a fascinating topic! There's no debate that Luka will ever compare to Kawhi Leonard as a defender, he won't. But, is 28/5/5 and all NBA defense better for the team than a 40/10/10 line and a guy doing everything for his team down the stretch? I think you could argue it both ways and ultimately the stats aren't going to tell the story, it'll come down to how many big plays, the game shifting kind, you can expect from each player.

I've always been a defense first guy but the Bad Boy Pistons didn't win 6 championships like MJ did. I didn't grow up watching MJ but I have watched Lebron's whole career and the conclusion I've come to is that the all time great players cannot be quantified in a Box Score. The best plays are so subtle you have to watch them a dozen times to dissect everything that led to that winning basket or game clinching stop. We marvel at the Box Scores sometimes but this isn't baseball where the one on one match up of batter and pitcher defines the game. Sometimes the best thing a superstar does is just instill in everyone on their team that no matter what they got this. People play different when they feel like they have the trump card in their pocket. And that, more than any stat, is what makes a player a Superstar in the NBA.

 

[hrdboild]

Isn't that what keeps Kingsfans.com alive?

Arguing is the lifeblood of any forum lol

Sure! Hey, I love a good verbal jab and even a drawn out battle of wits, it's why I'm here. I just don't like to see it getting too personal. As long as we can still be friends afterwards, it's all good to me.

 

[ockingsfan]

Mavs didn’t sign any free agents. It will be interesting to see how many free agents want to play there going forward.

Well, considering the Mavs don't have much cap space and no tradable draft picks, since the Knicks own most of them, the Mavs look to be stuck with what they largely currently have for this and next year at least.

Also, considering you didn't see high end free agents clamoring to play with the "nightly triple double" man in Russell Westbrook, there is a good chance that most high end free agents would not want to become an afterthought to the all mighty Luka and a 3rd fiddle to Luka and Porzingis in Dallas.

I would think most high end free agents would want to get their numbers too and I can see them wanting to touch the ball more than what a 3rd option would get in Dallas.

I doubt they get any big time player to come to Dallas through trade or free agency for the next couple of years. But, I could see someone like WCS signing to get some those lobs from Luka.

 

[Tetsujin]

Well, considering the Mavs don't have much cap space and no tradable draft picks, since the Knicks own most of them, the Mavs look to be stuck with what they largely currently have for this and next year at least.

Also, considering you didn't see high end free agents clamoring to play with the "nightly triple double" man in Russell Westbrook, there is a good chance that most high end free agents would not want to become an afterthought to the all mighty Luka and a 3rd fiddle to Luka and Porzingis in Dallas.

I would think most high end free agents would want to get their numbers too and I can see them wanting to touch the ball more than what a 3rd option would get in Dallas.

I doubt they get any big time player to come to Dallas through trade or free agency for the next couple of years. But, I could see someone like WCS signing to get some those lobs from Luka.

It should be noted that the Mavs had a nice 3rd/4th option on their roster but traded him to the Kings for Justin Jackson and the right to sign Seth Curry and Delon Wright in free agency. I realize Mavs fans were incredibly frustrated with Barnes during his time with the Mavs but at this point, a lot of the frustrating parts of his role on offense appears to be due to Rick Carlisle having no earthly idea how to use his players more than Barnes being a bulldog or whatever. And you can't tell me that his steady scoring presence, BBIQ, outside shooting, and strong defense on the wing wouldn't be better for the Mavs than JJ being JJ and Seth Curry and Delon Wright being decidedly meh.

 

[hrdboild]

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/luka-doncic.68189/

If you have some free time. One for the ages.

Oh God... it's like watching a replay of the whole love affair knowing that it just ends with all of my friends and loved ones watching me get left at the alter. One for the ages is right! I already consumed an entire pint of Tillamook Stumptown Cold Brew Coffee Ice Cream last night, can I do it again tonight?!

 

[ockingsfan]

It should be noted that the Mavs had a nice 3rd/4th option on their roster but traded him to the Kings for Justin Jackson and the right to sign Seth Curry and Delon Wright in free agency. I realize Mavs fans were incredibly frustrated with Barnes during his time with the Mavs but at this point, a lot of the frustrating parts of his role on offense appears to be due to Rick Carlisle having no earthly idea how to use his players more than Barnes being a bulldog or whatever. And you can't tell me that his steady scoring presence, BBIQ, outside shooting, and strong defense on the wing wouldn't be better for the Mavs than JJ being JJ and Seth Curry and Delon Wright being decidedly meh.

I think part of the reason the Mavs dumped Barnes was because they were trying to land a big free agent by opening up a max slot, thinking that free agents would come calling to play with the all mighty Luka.

Well, that obviously didn't materialize. And I can't see how a top level free agent i.e. Anthony Davis, Giannis, Kawhii, Paul George type player would see someone who dominates the ball like Luka and think, hey, I want to be a part of that. It didn't happen with Westbrook, I don't think it will happen in Dallas.

Dallas will probably get some mid tier players to play with Luka, but I can't see a "Super Star" level player ever signing on in Dallas.

 

[Dime Dropper]

***************** Vlade! I don't care how good Walton and Holmes are.

Well... I'll probably get over it if the team stays hot AND Fox and Bagley play up to their potential.

But until then.....

Wait, are you saying you're backing off your prediction of Doncic as "Andres Nocioni at best"? It seems you've come a long way...

 

[KingsFanSince85]

<SIGH>

After seeing what we're seeing night after night. I don't even know what to say anymore. Definitely far past having patience to see how it all plays out. It's certainly playing out, and not well for the KINGS.

It really wasn't a difficult decision to make. At all.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

But, is 28/5/5 and all NBA defense better for the team than a 40/10/10 line and a guy doing everything for his team down the stretch? I think you could argue it both ways and ultimately the stats aren't going to tell the story, it'll come down to how many big plays, the game shifting kind, you can expect from each player.

That question won't be answered for quite a long time. Kawhi already has 2 titles and could be in store for more.

#77 needs to lead his team to a couple titles first before the debate can really begin. That said, the way he's performing this season, it's likely to happen sooner than later if he's surrounded by the right combination of talent.

I wasn't sold on the Porziņģis trade when it happened and I'm stilll not. But #77 has shown to be talented and consistent enough that it's likely not gonna take much to finally find the right combination.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I doubt they get any big time player to come to Dallas through trade or free agency for the next couple of years.

The way he's playing, I definitely can see some impactful players wanting to go there. IMO, they'd be best served landing deadly shooters. Cause if he's not scoring himself, he'll get 'em open and find them.