Buddy and Bogdan’s extension?

[SacTownKid]

WCS may have been a top 7 pick on draft night but he certainly did nothing during his time here to justify/rationalize him being drafted that high. He was a sunk cost. If we weren't getting any decent offers for a possible trade, then the absolute right thing to do was just what we did...waive buh-bye.

Totally agreed. Much like the players they are having to deal with now though, they stuck with them too long rather than getting out earlier and recouping some value if there were concerns. I don't know where players like Buddy and Bogdan sit in relation to that, but it's probably too late as it is. They waited to long to turn the reins over to players like Buddy in the first place and had a whole summer to deal on potential alternatives. They did not, and instead solidified a team of MLE types around that player, so....

 

[Kingster]

I would "like" this post 100 times if I could.

Off the top of my head, I don't remember Buddy being the blazing-hot game-changing superstar he seems to think he is. Is he a good shooter? Yep. Is he Steph Curry or Peja Stojakovic? Hell no. In my mind, he's not even Bobby Jackson.

If you don't want to be here, Buddy, there's the door. Maybe you and Bonzi can get together at some point and talk about how to ruin a career.

I know a lot of this is posturing, but if Buddy is taking cues from his agent, he needs a new agent.

He's turned from Buddy Buckets into Buddy Buzzkill.

 

[fansinceday1]

buddy taking this to the media is really lame. As VF said, this was done to garner sympathy and frankly I think most Kings fans are sophisticated enough to see when a player is trying to hold the team hostage. Now we just have to have faith that our front office sees the same thing.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think you have it backwards. Handing out big 9 figure deals like they are cheese burgers will derail a rebuild pretty quick

That 20 million or whatever it is over 4-5 years won't be the difference unless they also watch Bagley and Fox leave since that cap space is already accounted for because of the type of rebuild the Kings have undertaken. In terms of trade value it might matter, but the Kings haven't played any of this in terms of trade value since the day Vlade came aboard. It was, "This is my young super team" and he has made moves to solidify that core at an increased cost per transaction which only makes it more necessary to keep that core intact. The Kings have opted to rebuild through the draft while also trading for and re-signing a player like Barnes. They've committed to that direction so in the end, letting one of those core players walk will just be written down as a loss.

 

[SacTownKid]

buddy taking this to the media is really lame. As VF said, this was done to garner sympathy and frankly I think most Kings fans are sophisticated enough to see when a player is trying to hold the team hostage. Now we just have to have faith that our front office sees the same thing.

It's certainly first world problems and Buddy better be careful with all of this since society in general has taken a noticeable turn of opinion with people in his particular financial situation. The issue with him is most certainly feeling like the step child. Everybody else got everything they wanted and more on the first ask, but Buddy has to get everyone elses hand me downs. haha.

 

[Jkbiker]

I think you have it backwards. Handing out big 9 figure deals like they are cheese burgers will derail a rebuild pretty quick

On Monday: Kings say "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a Cheeseburger Today!" Only tuesday will be next July 1

 

[The_Jamal]

In ITs case, it sorta shed light on the whole relationship between the organization and the players; tension is rising between the two after what the Celtics did.

Managing money and egos is part of the territory, and if we're not prepared to deal with this we can go back to the perennial loser. If they think some of the other talent on this team wouldn't do the same thing (Bagley, probably Fox too) when they're up for extensions, they're in for a rude awakening and we might as well jettison them off now.

These guys absolutely have egos, and if we're going to throw that away for culture or some crap, count me out.

Yeah its ridiculous. And Buddy is completely right about the "Sacramento tax" where no one wants to come here. In all seriousness, the 5 free agents we signed this summer very well might be on the top 10 list all-time the Kings have signed that wasn't previously on the team. We have a group of talented guys with a couple years playing under their belt together and actually want to be here: that's something the Kings can't afford to let walk as they've done time and time again with the few bits of talent we've gotten over the last 12+ years.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Totally agreed. Much like the players they are having to deal with now though, they stuck with them too long rather than getting out earlier and recouping some value if there were concerns. I don't know where players like Buddy and Bogdan sit in relation to that, but it's probably too late as it is. They waited to long to turn the reins over to players like Buddy in the first place and had a whole summer to deal on potential alternatives. They did not, and instead solidified a team of MLE types around that player, so....

What players?

 

[Jkbiker]

Yeah its ridiculous. And Buddy is completely right about the "Sacramento tax" where no one wants to come here. In all seriousness, the 5 free agents we signed this summer very well might be on the top 10 list all-time the Kings have signed that wasn't previously on the team. We have a group of talented guys with a couple years playing under their belt together and actually want to be here: that's something the Kings can't afford to let walk as they've done time and time again with the few bits of talent we've gotten over the last 12+ years.

But the "Sacramento Tax" only applies to FA Signings, Buddy is getting a secure contract on a future 4 seasons. Kings take risk on future performance and gets a discount, Buddy Eliminates Risk of Injury and Risk of China Cap Decrease- thus gives a discount.

Someone please explain that to Buddy

 

[VF21]

Yeah its ridiculous. And Buddy is completely right about the "Sacramento tax" where no one wants to come here. In all seriousness, the 5 free agents we signed this summer very well might be on the top 10 list all-time the Kings have signed that wasn't previously on the team. We have a group of talented guys with a couple years playing under their belt together and actually want to be here: that's something the Kings can't afford to let walk as they've done time and time again with the few bits of talent we've gotten over the last 12+ years.

That's like complaining about how bad your neighbor has been for the past 10 years when you've only lived there for 3.

 

[itzcoatl]

Right and his suggestion that top free agents don’t sign here is kind of a slap in the face to the new guys on the team - Dedmon, Holmes, CoJo, Ariza, etc

 

[Gguod]

Kings are in a very tough situation. On the other hand Buddy clearly isnt worth 4/110mil we also have very little recources to replace him. We really dont have cap to spend while we are a)heading to a bad free agency market where Buddy would be one of the top players and b)are going to need to extend Fox for example. Also Buddy and his agent know all that so they are understandably demanding a high price. Thats how players like Tristan Thompson and Otto Porter got overpaid, team is over the cap and cant replace them if they let them go and thats why most likely Buddy will get paid too.

This moment is exactly why for the past two years I basically begged and prayed for the Kings to make moves to gather future assets, first and foremost renting cap space for future picks. For some reason we didnt do any of that. Instead we used tens and tens of millions of cap for "mentors" ect.

Now we are in a situation where we have basically zero additional future picks as assets for getting a)cost controlled contributors, b)lottery tickets for hitting a home run and getting an all star or c)to use as a trade piece for an allstar. We also dont have too many talented young players on rookie contracts that we could use either as contributors or as trade assets.

This means that when we are now entering "win now mode" since core pieces are starting to need extensions, we have been forced to use 61 million per year of our cap on four rotational/role players (Barnes, Dedmond, Ariza, Joseph). That and the extensions of Buddy&Fox mean that we arent improving this team anymore with cap space and since we didnt gather any future assets, improving the team via draft isnt going to be easy either if we are drafting past 15 constantly. Trades get harder too when you cant use additional draft assets because you are going to need to use your own picks to get those cheap contributors when you are paying Buddy, Fox, Barnes and Bagley.

We were always going to either need to extend Buddy or flip him for another contributor if we wanted this rebuild to be as succesful as possible. Unfortunatly by not adding extra assets while rebuilding we most likely limited the ceiling of what this team can be.

 

[Sac.Kings]

buddy taking this to the media is really lame. As VF said, this was done to garner sympathy and frankly I think most Kings fans are sophisticated enough to see when a player is trying to hold the team hostage. Now we just have to have faith that our front office sees the same thing.

This is where I am at as well. I get that he wants more, this will most likely be his biggest contract in the NBA, but it’s not like we are that far off. He really isn’t that great of a player to command near max money. He just isn’t. He’s a phenomenal shooter, but is an average defender, not a great playmaker, and makes poor decisions way too often. One could argue that he isn’t a great scorer. He relies heavily on the system catering to his needs, you can’t just throw it to him and say get us a bucket.
This was a bad move by Buddy. This is what not to do 101. You don’t feel wanted? Bro Vivek openly admitted we have been chasing you to get you on the Kings since you entered the league. We traded our franchise big man for you. Do the world a favor and just keep your mouth shut!

 

[Cojc]

I think if you give Buddy anything over 23 to 25 million a year is risky. a contract for 4 years with no team options and not a declining scale contract his tradability becomes a liability unless he turns out like a Richmond caliber player which I just can’t see.

 

[ESP47]

This is annoying.

 

[gunks]

Kings are in a very tough situation. On the other hand Buddy clearly isnt worth 4/110mil we also have very little recources to replace him. We really dont have cap to spend while we are a)heading to a bad free agency market where Buddy would be one of the top players and b)are going to need to extend Fox for example. Also Buddy and his agent know all that so they are understandably demanding a high price. Thats how players like Tristan Thompson and Otto Porter got overpaid, team is over the cap and cant replace them if they let them go and thats why most likely Buddy will get paid too.

Err....Bogi?

If he can bounce back from his iffy play last season (and its starting to look like that was a health thing), he can absolutely replace Buddy in the starting lineup. The issue then becomes one of finding a backup SG, which shouldn't be too difficult. There's always a lot of 8-12ppg dudes floating around in FA.

I'm not saying that's the best case scenario, I'd love for us to keep Buddy, but there's no reason to think he has Vlade held hostage or anything. 110 million is a lot for a 3rd option* who doesn't play defense or play smart.

This is assuming Bogi doesn't also demand the max (seems to be the vogue thing to do in the NBA these days), but I'd hope he'd be more reasonable, being a backup and all.



*future 3rd option anyways, if Fox and Bagley reach their potentials.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Just get it done Vlade. 105mil and get ready for the season. In his prime, top 5 shooter in the game, his best skill (3pt) is probably the most important in the game, great teammate, wants to be here, durable. A NO BRAINER. If the Kings don’t progress in a couple years it’s a moveable contract.

 

[kingsboi]

In ITs case, it sorta shed light on the whole relationship between the organization and the players; tension is rising between the two after what the Celtics did.

Managing money and egos is part of the territory, and if we're not prepared to deal with this we can go back to the perennial loser. If they think some of the other talent on this team wouldn't do the same thing (Bagley, probably Fox too) when they're up for extensions, they're in for a rude awakening and we might as well jettison them off now.

These guys absolutely have egos, and if we're going to throw that away for culture or some crap, count me out.

I believe the Kings are willing to spend but it's when a player goes to the media to address what should be behind closed doors is where culture plays a part. You said it, egos are a part of it so they have to manage it or disperse of it. In this case, Vivek was vouching for Buddy in a Cousins trade so I have no reason to believe that he will allow Buddy to walk. One last thing to consider here, considering Buddy's age, the fact that he wants all that money is not surprising because this will be an opportunity for one large pay day before getting one or two year deals as his play declines.

 

[burekijogurt]

Buddy has put the FO in a bad situation by negotiating in public. If he exerted pressure privately the Kings could "cave" without "losing face." Now they have to be careful not to set a precedent in how to negotiate with the Kings front office: go public and demand more. My guess is Buddy could have gotten more by doing this privately allowing the Kings to accept his terms without reprocussions other than cap space.

That said, I'd still pay him.

 

[The_Jamal]

Kings are in a very tough situation. On the other hand Buddy clearly isnt worth 4/110mil we also have very little recources to replace him. We really dont have cap to spend while we are a)heading to a bad free agency market where Buddy would be one of the top players and b)are going to need to extend Fox for example. Also Buddy and his agent know all that so they are understandably demanding a high price. Thats how players like Tristan Thompson and Otto Porter got overpaid, team is over the cap and cant replace them if they let them go and thats why most likely Buddy will get paid too.

This moment is exactly why for the past two years I basically begged and prayed for the Kings to make moves to gather future assets, first and foremost renting cap space for future picks. For some reason we didnt do any of that. Instead we used tens and tens of millions of cap for "mentors" ect.

Now we are in a situation where we have basically zero additional future picks as assets for getting a)cost controlled contributors, b)lottery tickets for hitting a home run and getting an all star or c)to use as a trade piece for an allstar. We also dont have too many talented young players on rookie contracts that we could use either as contributors or as trade assets.

This means that when we are now entering "win now mode" since core pieces are starting to need extensions, we have been forced to use 61 million per year of our cap on four rotational/role players (Barnes, Dedmond, Ariza, Joseph). That and the extensions of Buddy&Fox mean that we arent improving this team anymore with cap space and since we didnt gather any future assets, improving the team via draft isnt going to be easy either if we are drafting past 15 constantly. Trades get harder too when you cant use additional draft assets because you are going to need to use your own picks to get those cheap contributors when you are paying Buddy, Fox, Barnes and Bagley.

We were always going to either need to extend Buddy or flip him for another contributor if we wanted this rebuild to be as succesful as possible. Unfortunatly by not adding extra assets while rebuilding we most likely limited the ceiling of what this team can be.

Yeah, there's been a contingent of us on this site extremely annoyed that we haven't hopped on deals like Carroll a few years back, TJ Warren this year and countless other opportunities to use our cap to future draft picks. It's why we were so upset at the process of trading that first round pick for nothing. Those chickens are coming home to roost now where we have to be fully invested in Fox/Buddy/Bogdan/Giles/Barnes/Bagley because we don't have a future or future assets to turn to if they don't work out. Further evidence this year where we spent all of our money on older role playing vets to fit around the core rather than future potential.

Vlade just doesn't have a choice. All the moves he's made has him tied to the above 6 guys being the core of a playoff team. We don't have the ability to lose any of them and just "replace them"

 

[iowamcnabb]

Buddy has put the FO in a bad situation by negotiating in public. If he exerted pressure privately the Kings could "cave" without "losing face." Now they have to be careful not to set a precedent in how to negotiate with the Kings front office: go public and demand more. My guess is Buddy could have gotten more by doing this privately allowing the Kings to accept his terms without reprocussions other than cap space.

That said, I'd still pay him.

In the end, it probably doesn’t matter. Look at Zeke with the Cowboys. He was hanging in Mexico while the team prepared for the season while Dak hadn’t even been extended yet. Jerry Jones eventually caved and now it’s as if nothing happened. Doubt they let Buddy walk over a few mil.

 

[VF21]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1184986501056040960

 

[VF21]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1184995168660754434

 

[VF21]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1184977529678913536

 

[hrdboild]

Right and his suggestion that top free agents don’t sign here is kind of a slap in the face to the new guys on the team - Dedmon, Holmes, CoJo, Ariza, etc

Is it though? If those guys think they're on the same level as a KD or Kawhi then I guess it would be insulting but that would be some serious self-delusion. While they're all solid contributors, none of these guys inspires a bidding war. I think some of you are being too sensitive about comments that aren't really directed at us. Contract negotiations aren't fun for anybody. Buddy isn't passing judgement on the city of Sacramento he's communicating with the front office what his value is. There's maybe some rules of etiquette being broached here, or at least a perception that unwritten rules have been broken, but remember that Buddy also didn't grow up in this country. I think he's just being direct. And based on comparable contract data his expectations aren't unreasonable. The counting stats say he's only had one year worthy of a max or near max contract but his shooting percentages are as reliable as they come and in an advanced stat driven league, that probably counts for more.

 

[Sluggah]

I took me a LONG time to come around on Buddy. But I did. Still think he’s very limited as a player, but 90-100 million...fine.

How he’s handling the situation though...I can’t. We’re back at square one, Buddy.

I’ll be watching you this season with a skeptical eye, hoping you prove you’re worthy of your ego and this drama.

 

[SLAB]

I took me a LONG time to come around on Buddy. But I did. Still think he’s very limited as a player, but 90-100 million...fine.

How he’s handling the situation though...I can’t. We’re back at square one, Buddy.

I’ll be watching you this season with a skeptical eye, hoping you prove you’re worthy of your ego and this drama.

100% this.

I’ve been semi-vocal about fearing him regressing a bit this season. For everyone’s sake, I hope he doesn’t. Would save us some cap space though.

 

[tastyburger]

100% this.

I’ve been semi-vocal about fearing him regressing a bit this season. For everyone’s sake, I hope he doesn’t. Would save us some cap space though.

I'm 100% for paying Buddy. With that said, if the two parties cant come to terms, we've got a hell of a backup waiting for another chance...

 

[Tetsujin]

Just get it done Vlade. 105mil and get ready for the season. In his prime, top 5 shooter in the game, his best skill (3pt) is probably the most important in the game, great teammate, wants to be here, durable. A NO BRAINER. If the Kings don’t progress in a couple years it’s a moveable contract.

Debatable at this point.

 

[Tetsujin]

In the end, it probably doesn’t matter. Look at Zeke with the Cowboys. He was hanging in Mexico while the team prepared for the season while Dak hadn’t even been extended yet. Jerry Jones eventually caved and now it’s as if nothing happened. Doubt they let Buddy walk over a few mil.

And Zeke has subsequently not been all that great this season.