Harrison Barnes Likely to Receive $88 mill over 4 Years

Doesn’t matter. The point was, under the scenario I outlined, any team will interest top free agents. San Antonio isn’t a large market, but always draws interest because they win. The KINGS circa 2002 would have done the same had they been able to sustain. Unfortunately they were a shooting star.

Im just saying, it’s possible. It’s not a ‘it can never happen’ situation. But I fully agree with you that it’s a ways off, if it ever happens at all.
Times have changed in recent years to make it easier for small markets to attract FAs. With League Pass, it has made it so that players are seen no matter where they play. That wasn't the case 20+ years ago. If you didn't get national tv games, no one knew you very well, which resulted in less endorsements.

Even teams like SA got most of their good players through the draft. Most of the FAs they signed (untill recently) were role players. The same was true of the Kings when they were good. All the big name FAs still went to the big cities. That made itdifficult for them to stay good when things started going south.
 
Passing on a future superstar like Doncic and then severely overpaying a non difference maker like Harrison Barnes is how you stay mediocre. There was a path to future title contention, and we took the wrong turn.

That’s the story of this franchise post Petrie. Maybe the next time we are gifted an opportunity we won’t screw it up?
 
Passing on a future superstar like Doncic and then severely overpaying a non difference maker like Harrison Barnes is how you stay mediocre. There was a path to future title contention, and we took the wrong turn.

That’s the story of this franchise post Petrie. Maybe the next time we are gifted an opportunity we won’t screw it up?
Wow. Your analysis reminds me of the blind guy describing an elephant.
 
Passing on a future superstar like Doncic and then severely overpaying a non difference maker like Harrison Barnes is how you stay mediocre. There was a path to future title contention, and we took the wrong turn.

That’s the story of this franchise post Petrie. Maybe the next time we are gifted an opportunity we won’t screw it up?

I'm not convinced Bagley won't be the best player out of that draft yet. Originally I liked Doncic, but after watching Bagley improve over the season, I really don't think about the draft anymore. I'm happy my first impressions were off.

Assuming the overpay occurs for Barnes, I don't like it much, but will move on.
 
Passing on a future superstar like Doncic and then severely overpaying a non difference maker like Harrison Barnes is how you stay mediocre. There was a path to future title contention, and we took the wrong turn.

That’s the story of this franchise post Petrie. Maybe the next time we are gifted an opportunity we won’t screw it up?
While I completely disagree with your assessment I must point out, we sucked long before Petrie left. He gave us 7 years of really crapy choices before he was replaced by the worst GM ever.
 
Even teams like SA got most of their good players through the draft. Most of the FAs they signed (untill recently) were role players. The same was true of the Kings when they were good. All the big name FAs still went to the big cities. That made itdifficult for them to stay good when things started going south.
True, but SA has always been connected to top free agents and a reasonably possible destination. Obviously LaMarcus Aldridge went there. That kind of thing wouldn’t have happened if they had been on the same path as the KINGS all these years.

To your other point, I believe you’re spot on with league pass and smaller markets not precluding players from visibility and endorsement contracts.
 
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Entity

Hall of Famer
? He was averaging 14.3 ppg and 5.5 rpg for the Kings.....so yeah if he jumped to 18ppg avg that would be an strong uptick, and validate his 1st year of contract.
You realize he only average 6 attempts per game right? In Dallas he averaged 11 and got 19 pts per game. I don’t understand why people fail to pay attention to attempts per game when they are arguing about 4 ppg. To me a playe getting 14 on 6 shots is equally as good as a player getting 18 on 11 shots. It’s not hard to figure that on 5 more attempts 4 points would come easy
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
? He was averaging 14.3 ppg and 5.5 rpg for the Kings.....so yeah if he jumped to 18ppg avg that would be an strong uptick, and validate his 1st year of contract.
To add to that. If you take away the first 6 games in which consisted of a 4 game road trip. So the month of March he averaged 16 pts a game. I think 18 isn’t far fetched and will probably be around what he gets. 16-19
 
While I completely disagree with your assessment I must point out, we sucked long before Petrie left. He gave us 7 years of really crapy choices before he was replaced by the worst GM ever.
You’re right. However, it’s long been my contention that Petrie’s hands became tied by the desperate and cash strapped Magoof family for numerous seasons prior to his departure.

Firing Rick Adelman wasn’t Mr. Petrie’s idea. There was friction between the coach and owners who had become more hands on and arrogant that they knew better.

Tyreke Evans was the Magoof’s draft pick — who thought they were getting the next Derrick Rose. I firmly believe Petrie would have went with Steph Curry, who perfectly fit all the attributes he coveted and focused on well before Warriors made it fashionable. Shooting, passing, BBIQ. But there’s no way to know that for sure.

Then the owners handicapped subsequent coaching hires by not allowing him to offer the amount of $$ it would take to attract a top guy. They went dumpster diving for retreads that didn’t have other options and accepted well below market value.

None of that is on Geoff Petrie.

Let’s not forget that upon being shown the door when the new regime came in, he advised to KINGS to take a hard look at Giannis Antetokoumpo — which they really didn’t do.

We’ll never know what Petrie would have done for sure, if allowed to keep his job with full control and resources restored under the new ownership group, but my belief is that Giannis would have been a KING rather than Ben McLemore. Not only do we have confirmation that he advised the KINGS to research him deeply, he fit the type of player Petrie always looked for.
 
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You realize he only average 6 attempts per game right? In Dallas he averaged 11 and got 19 pts per game. I don’t understand why people fail to pay attention to attempts per game when they are arguing about 4 ppg. To me a playe getting 14 on 6 shots is equally as good as a player getting 18 on 11 shots. It’s not hard to figure that on 5 more attempts 4 points would come easy
If he's to be the lead player or 2nd lead and can make 19ppg efficiently, all for it - but it has to occur. I wouldn't just assume it will occur - the Kings are not lacking for offense from other players like they were the year before last. If it looks like Barnes is leading the charge, and the Kings are improving from last season, then he's earning his salary which is satisfactory. This is not fully under Barnes control either.
 
You’re right. However, it’s long been my contention that Petrie’s hands became tied by the desperate and cash strapped Magoof family for numerous seasons prior to his departure.

Firing Rick Adelman wasn’t Mr. Petrie’s idea. There was friction between the coach and owners who had become more hands on and arrogant that they knew better.

Tyreke Evans was the Magoof’s draft pick — who thought they were getting the next Derrick Rose. I firmly believe Petrie would have went with Steph Curry, who perfectly fit all the attributes he coveted and focused on well before Warriors made it fashionable. Shooting, passing, BBIQ. But there’s no way to know that for sure.

Then the owners handicapped subsequent coaching hires by not allowing him to offer the amount of $$ it would take to attract a top guy. They went dumpster diving for retreads that didn’t have other options and accepted well below market value.

None of that is on Geoff Petrie.

Let’s not forget that upon being shown the door when the new regime came in, he advised to KINGS to take a hard look at Giannis Antetokoumpo — which they really didn’t do.

We’ll never know what Petrie would have done for sure, if allowed to keep his job with full control and resources restored under the new ownership group, but my belief is that Giannis would have been a KING rather than Ben McLemore. Not only do we have confirmation that he advised the KINGS to research him deeply, he fit the type of player Petrie always looked for.
Saw Petrie on a shared flight from Kauai last year back to the mainland.....I didn't recognize him at first, but was trying to figure out why he looked familiar. When the recognition lightbulb came on, my first impulse was to say hello and ask a question or 2, but I thought better of bothering him.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
If he's to be the lead player or 2nd lead and can make 19ppg efficiently, all for it - but it has to occur. I wouldn't just assume it will occur - the Kings are not lacking for offense from other players like they were the year before last. If it looks like Barnes is leading the charge, and the Kings are improving from last season, then he's earning his salary which is satisfactory. This is not fully under Barnes control either.
I’m not assuming. If he gets 11-12 shots a game he will get 18 pts per game. If he gets 6-7 shots per game he will not. He proved to be just as efficient as buddy and fox. He just didn’t shoot as much.
 
You’re right. However, it’s long been my contention that Petrie’s hands became tied by the desperate and cash strapped Magoof family for numerous seasons prior to his departure.

Firing Rick Adelman wasn’t Mr. Petrie’s idea. There was friction between the coach and owners who had become more hands on and arrogant that they knew better.

Tyreke Evans was the Magoof’s draft pick — who thought they were getting the next Derrick Rose. I firmly believe Petrie would have went with Steph Curry, who perfectly fit all the attributes he coveted and focused on well before Warriors made it fashionable. Shooting, passing, BBIQ. But there’s no way to know that for sure.

Then the owners handicapped subsequent coaching hires by not allowing him to offer the amount of $$ it would take to attract a top guy. They went dumpster diving for retreads that didn’t have other options and accepted well below market value.

None of that is on Geoff Petrie.

Let’s not forget that upon being shown the door when the new regime came in, he advised to KINGS to take a hard look at Giannis Antetokoumpo — which they really didn’t do.

We’ll never know what Petrie would have done for sure, if allowed to keep his job with full control and resources restored under the new ownership group, but my belief is that Giannis would have been a KING rather than Ben McLemore. Not only do we have confirmation that he advised the KINGS to research him deeply, he fit the type of player Petrie always looked for.
For fear of moving too far off topic and beating a dead horse, I’ll be brief. I’ve never bought these excuses, I think there is some speculation and false facts embedded. Petrie had 7 years to leave if he was truly being a Magoof puppet. I speculate that if he was merely a puppet, he is the type of personality who would leave, not sign contract extensions.

Again, this probably belongs in its own thread or even pull up one of the old threads that belabors these arguments and counter arguments over and over again.
 
I’m not assuming. If he gets 11-12 shots a game he will get 18 pts per game. If he gets 6-7 shots per game he will not. He proved to be just as efficient as buddy and fox. He just didn’t shoot as much.
I have no idea if they will be focusing the offense around him or not, and yes, you are assuming. That's what the word "if" dictates that you used.
If -- defined as "on the assumption that". I dont know what you're going on about honestly. The past is an indication but it isn't a cause and effect.
Barnes could go into a shooting slump just as well too. We don't know.
 
Yeah the thing about Barnes is his VORP goes down as his usage goes up because he's not an efficient volume shooter and doesn't have the defense to make up for it. I think he will be somewhere in between what he would have averaged with us last season (0.6) and his best year in GS (1.8). Probably around 0.8-1.0 or so if I had to guess. As you know, VORP numbers inflate a bit on better teams so I wouldn't count on him reaching his GS levels but he's obviously not going to be as bad as his Dallas levels were either.

I like Barnes and I thought he came in and fit in as well as he possibly could last year. I was a bit worried that he would try and be Dallas Barnes but he didn't do that at all. I just don't think he's worth the contract is all. I think the over payment could have been made elsewhere on better players to get a better bang for your buck and to fill more holes on the team. I would have rather over paid a better player in Beverly/Brogdon and then found a deal on a guy like Aminu. At that point you just keep WCS for depth at the 5. I think the bang for the buck there is better than what I consider a negative deal in this one (paying 22mil for a guy who struggles to even get 1 VORP).

Lets say the best case, semi realistic scenario the Kings have this offseason is they wind up with Barnes, Joseph and Dedmon.

My plan would be to go after Aminu, over pay Beverly and keep WCS which I think is fairly realistic. I think the Kings would wind up spending roughly the same amount of money in each scenario.

VORP - Barnes/Joseph/Dedmon = 2.7 (I'm rounding Barnes' VORP to 0.6 since he had a 0.2 and played 1/3 of the season with us)

VORP - Aminu/Beverly/WCS = 6.3

The 2nd group gives up a little bit shooting wise but they are much better defensively and would completely change the look of the team from a bunch of young run and gunners that jack up shots to a team that can not only score, but will make you work on the other end of the court.
So I think opportunity cost is definitely matters with Barnes too because you're not replacing what he does as a the 3/4 flex with any of the guys you're signing. Aminu is basically a pure small-ball PF at this point (95%, 96%, 99% possessions played at PF according to BBall ref). Whats your replacement guy look like? When you're trying to actually win games, not having a complete sink at that spot (Like JJ, Troy Williams, etc) is an upgrade in itself.

Pat Bev just isn't realistic for us unfortunately. He's gonna get a starting gig somewhere with the way things are going AND get the massive contract. His stock just keeps going through the roof and he's sort of put himself as the "next best" FA after the stars are off the market. If the Lakers miss on Kawhi, wouldn't be surprised to see them give him 16-18 mil a year. And without a real spot for him with the starters (and sharing the back-court with Bogi off the bench), that's a real expensive guy you can't really see ever getting over 25 MPG.
 
For fear of moving too far off topic and beating a dead horse, I’ll be brief. I’ve never bought these excuses, I think there is some speculation and false facts embedded. Petrie had 7 years to leave if he was truly being a Magoof puppet. I speculate that if he was merely a puppet, he is the type of personality who would leave, not sign contract extensions.

Again, this probably belongs in its own thread or even pull up one of the old threads that belabors these arguments and counter arguments over and over again.
Well, I respect your opinion, but I believe there are plenty examples why it's likely true. I only cited a few of them. But there are more.

IMO, the Magoofs interference began in 2006 with the acquisition of Ron Artest and then the firing of Adelman. But I think Petrie still had control of the draft. By 2009, the Magoofs started interfering a lot more hence the Tyreke Evans draft selection and over-emotional defending of that pick. That's also the time frame when the Magoof's folded the Monarchs.

Regardless, I don't think anyone can argue against the notion that Petrie was severly hampered in his coaching searches since the Magoofs couldn't or wouldn't pay a competitive salary.

To your point, this is probably better off as a separate topic of discussion.
 
Well, I respect your opinion, but I believe there are plenty examples why it's likely true. I only cited a few of them. But there are more.

IMO, the Magoofs interference began in 2006 with the acquisition of Ron Artest and then the firing of Adelman. But I think Petrie still had control of the draft. By 2009, the Magoofs started interfering a lot more hence the Tyreke Evans draft selection and over-emotional defending of that pick. That's also the time frame when the Magoof's folded the Monarchs.

Regardless, I don't think anyone can argue against the notion that Petrie was severly hampered in his coaching searches since the Magoofs couldn't or wouldn't pay a competitive salary.

To your point, this is probably better off as a separate topic of discussion.
Petrie wanted Lillard and when Thomas Robinson fell they magically picked him instead...
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
Looks like it will start in the 22-23 range the drop down to 18 or so the last year. Average of 21 per year
whatever you think of the total amount, the structure of the contract is a bonus. I like the declining amounts as that frees up more $$$ in the future to sign the young guns to extensions/contracts when they are up.
 
I'd still prefer 3 years but I think the declining contract is ideal for the Kings. I'm surprised his agent was ok with it.
Eh, the declining doesn't do anything to help improve the team now though. It makes it a little easier on Viveks pocket book down the line but not much else. If he thinks he's going to compete with ownership groups like they have out west without breaking the bank he might be sorely mistaken.
 

Entity

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Eh, the declining doesn't do anything to help improve the team now though. It makes it a little easier on Viveks pocket book down the line but not much else. If he thinks he's going to compete with ownership groups like they have out west without breaking the bank he might be sorely mistaken.
So what free agent SF could the Kings have gotten to make them better?