I guess it demonstrates how far some have gone when saying Doncic is deservedly the Rookie of the year and could be (but has some needed areas of growth which might or might not happen) a franchise player is considered harsh criticism.
I would say this is pretty harsh:
Luka doing Luka things down the stretch
Would that be giving up multiple baskets on defense and being responsible for the Mavs defense being collapsed?
If anyone spammed garbage like that when Bagley was playing well and scoring some critical baskets, it would be a sh*tstorm. I'm pretty sure not many people in here (especially not a moderator) would end up defending the guy that started the conversation like that.
At this point it is simple to argue that the possibility of Luka not being the best player in this class is far from remote....
1) Luka came into this season far more prepared to play than other rookies. I’m not one who subscribes to the notion the Euro league is less demanding than the NCAA. It’s not even close. Luka has been coached by NBA caliber coaches while Bagley has been coached by his college football playing dad.
2) previous Euro players such as Bogdan and Brogdan with similiar Euro experience have come into the league and improved incrementally. Yes Luka is younger but his skills are easily as advanced as Bogdan and Brogdan.
3) even where players have entered with similiar experience it doesn’t mean the Rookie of the Year winner is the best player of his class. Would you rather have Micheal Carter Williams (ROY) or Giannis? Would you rather have Tyreke (ROY) or Steph Curry? Would you rather have Andrew Wiggins or Aaron Gordon? This trend has excellerated in the era of 1 and dones.
Does Luka have a good chance to be the best player if this class? Sure, I have never said he isn’t a very good player with potential to be a great player. But it’s far to early to say the die is cast like you and others have done.
Maybe you should read what I've written. I havent said that "the die is cast". This is what I've said:
You previously talked about facts, well wether you like it or not, the fact is that based on what we know and what we've seen, Luka was easily the best player on the draft and its not even close to being close. Thats a fact. That fact could possibly change in two or three years if something huge happens, but.. At this moment if we are making an educated guess on who is and will be the most valuable player in this draft class, its Luka. Its very difficult to argue otherwise and thats just how it is.
The fact that you are comparing this situation to other rookie of the year winners like Carter-Williams and Tyreeke doesnt say anything else but that you might not be so good at evaluating talent and future value of a player. Its not about who is going to win the award, its about based on what we know and have seen, who has the most probable path to being the most valuable and productive. The rookie of the year award itself doesnt mean anything to me and I do zero evaluations that base on it. Im not going to waste my time comparing this situation to other rookie classes because it has nothing to do with the overall point.
I can briefly again state the case that why based on what we know and have seen, Luka is most likely going to be the most valuable out of this group.
First of all his play on the court has been so much better than anyone elses that hes on a level of his own compared to these other guys, I'm pretty sure we agree on this so no reason to go on with it.
Luka plays the most valuable role, the most valuable position and has the most valuable skillset. He is a ball handling offensive creator, hes 6'8 and while being great at creating the offense, he shows very high basketball IQ. If you dont even think about his performance, his role/position and skillset are so much more valuable compared to Ayton or Bagley for example that it gives him a huge edge.
Then especially when we know and understand the value of different skillsets and roles AND we combine it to the on court performance, we can make a pretty good educated guess. Guys like Ayton or Bagley are already behind Luka so much based on performance that its very hard to see neither surpassing Lukas value considering their role and skillset is already far less valuable.
Tre Young and Luka have more similar skillsets but Luka seems to be better on almost every aspect of the game and has more size (making it easier to operate defensively).
JJJ is atm probably closest to Luka (also was #2 on my board). Him being great defensively and spacing the floor makes his floor very high, surely a productive player in the future but again, Lukas role and skillset is more valuable and he is already performing great in that role so again, hard to make the case that JJJ becomes more valuable player.
As I've said over and over again, its about making educated evaluations based on the data we have currently. Bu saying that Luka will most likely be the best of his class is a very reasonable take because majority of the data points to it at the moment.