Harry Giles thread back on track ;)

[Dime Dropper]

This is a funny statement considering not many knew Jokic was going to develop into the player he’s develop into the past few years.

Considering the talent, athleticism and BBIQ that Giles has, he could end up being even better for all you know or anybody else knows.

Could he end up being a better player? Sure, although I wouldn't bet on it. Will he ever be the passer Jokic is? Nope. No chance.

Doesn't mean he can't be an elite passing big man though. Just that he's not going to go down as arguably the greatest passing big man of all time.

Seriously, people need to actually watch Jokic play if they think Giles is going to be on his level when it comes to passing the ball. It's delusion.

 

[sactowndog]

Could he end up being a better player? Sure, although I wouldn't bet on it. Will he ever be the passer Jokic is? Nope. No chance.

Doesn't mean he can't be an elite passing big man though. Just that he's not going to go down as arguably the greatest passing big man of all time.

Seriously, people need to actually watch Jokic play if they think Giles is going to be on his level when it comes to passing the ball. It's delusion.

Do you really think Giles passing won’t improve after having sat for 3 years 2 of which he was recovering from injury? Not to mention his essentially jumping from junior in high school to the NBA.

Harry is already the best passing big man on the roster with limited NBA game minutes. He had 3 assists in 10 minutes.

 

[jcassio]

Do you really think Giles passing won’t improve after having sat for 3 years 2 of which he was recovering from injury? Not to mention his essentially jumping from junior in high school to the NBA.

Harry is already the best passing big man on the roster with limited NBA game minutes. He had 3 assists in 10 minutes.

Why continue the argument with DIme Dropper? He clearly has his mind made up.

 

[sactowndog]

Why continue the argument with DIme Dropper? He clearly has his mind made up.

Fair point

 

[Dime Dropper]

Do you really think Giles passing won’t improve after having sat for 3 years 2 of which he was recovering from injury? Not to mention his essentially jumping from junior in high school to the NBA.

Harry is already the best passing big man on the roster with limited NBA game minutes. He had 3 assists in 10 minutes.

Where did I say he wouldn't improve? You're literally making things up. Unless you want to extrapolate this particular 10 minutes of play because it suits your argument?

As far as my mind being made up on whether Giles will ever be as prolific a passer as Jokic, yeah, it is made up. That's cause it's not going to happen.

I'm not anti-Giles. I'm a big fan of him and he is showing elite passing vision for a big man. No need for people to get their panties in a bunch just because I'm not ready to be completely biased and unrealistic about him.

 

[jcassio]

No one KNOWS Giles potential; only that he has lots of it. There's no reason to spew absolutes here as if YOU are the (only) one who knows and everyone else is delusional.

 

[kingsfan1984]

This is a funny statement considering not many knew Jokic was going to develop into the player he’s develop into the past few years.

Considering the talent, athleticism and BBIQ that Giles has, he could end up being even better for all you know or anybody else knows.

I logged 8n today just to say with each pass I was reminded of jokic and harry is just starting

 

[kingsfan1984]

Could he end up being a better player? Sure, although I wouldn't bet on it. Will he ever be the passer Jokic is? Nope. No chance.

.

Soom passes sure look jokic like to me already. I'd bet the odds are well above " no chance".

 

[sactowndog]

Where did I say he wouldn't improve? You're literally making things up. Unless you want to extrapolate this particular 10 minutes of play because it suits your argument?

As far as my mind being made up on whether Giles will ever be as prolific a passer as Jokic, yeah, it is made up. That's cause it's not going to happen.

I'm not anti-Giles. I'm a big fan of him and he is showing elite passing vision for a big man. No need for people to get their panties in a bunch just because I'm not ready to be completely biased and unrealistic about him.

The one thing in your favor is a real question if Joeger is the coach to bring it out. Joeger seems to be a coach that values athleticism and “effort” over IQ. I say that based on the minutes he gave Williams and Sampson. Also his high enthusiasm for Bagley and tepid (at best) enthusiasm for Giles.

Vlade in contrast seems to value high IQ players like himself much higher. We shall see how this plays out.

 

[Dime Dropper]

The one thing in your favor is a real question if Joeger is the coach to bring it out. Joeger seems to be a coach that values athleticism and “effort” over IQ. I say that based on the minutes he gave Williams and Sampson. Also his high enthusiasm for Bagley and tepid (at best) enthusiasm for Giles.

Vlade in contrast seems to value high IQ players like himself much higher. We shall see how this plays out.

Well, that wouldn't be in my favour, as you say. I want the Kings to succeed, and I'd like nothing more than for Giles to be a 7apg+ player, because that would mean big things for us. Don't confuse me thinking it's unfair to expect Giles to be an all-time great passer, with me not wanting him to be that. I'll happily be wrong on this.

 

[Kingster]

I'm just laughing at some of these comments minimizing Giles' passing ability. Here's a guy that's played in very few games with his team in the NBA. Yet, his passing is eye-popping. He and is his teammates aren't even close to being comfortable with each other in the battle of an NBA game. Not remotely close. It takes experience in game time situations with your teammates to develop timing on passes. Yet Giles is showing eye-popping passing ability without that experience or chemistry. Think what he can do when he gets the experience and he and his teammates develop the chemistry. It's going to be a wonder to behold.

 

[dude12]

The one thing in your favor is a real question if Joeger is the coach to bring it out. Joeger seems to be a coach that values athleticism and “effort” over IQ. I say that based on the minutes he gave Williams and Sampson. Also his high enthusiasm for Bagley and tepid (at best) enthusiasm for Giles.

Vlade in contrast seems to value high IQ players like himself much higher. We shall see how this plays out.

And yet he plays Koufos, who is IQ and effort...I think your assessments on Joerger are all over the place. Trying to push an agenda. You are just assuming he has no enthusiasm for Giles because, in your eye, he’s the right choice to be playing big minutes but in Joerger’s assessment, and I’m speculating what he’s thinking, he sees Giles on defense and he hasn’t necessarily figured out a few things.

Go back and look at the tape if you need to but the Warriors ran high pick and pop with Curry and Giles’ man and Curry got wide open looks because Giles couldn’t defend it well enough. Doesn’t it seem that might be the reason that Harry is getting lesser minutes than your reasons that Joerger isn’t enthusiastic about Giles, that Joerger isn’t in the same page with management, etc, etc, or whatever else you conjure up in your mind.

 

[kingsfan1984]

Put in the game thread but wanted to log statement here.

Giles is our best half court player.

Probably be a few more rough patches as he continues to adjust, but for a number of stints now, when the ball goes through his hands good things happen.

I'm just laughing at some of these comments minimizing Giles' passing ability. Here's a guy that's played in very few games with his team in the NBA. Yet, his passing is eye-popping. He and is his teammates aren't even close to being comfortable with each other in the battle of an NBA game. Not remotely close. It takes experience in game time situations with your teammates to develop timing on passes. Yet Giles is showing eye-popping passing ability without that experience or chemistry. Think what he can do when he gets the experience and he and his teammates develop the chemistry. It's going to be a wonder to behold.

Absolutely! Giles is barely played in years and look what he is able to do after a few Gleage games! Its astounding honestly. I've seen nothing like it. Jokic and doncic pass like they do after years of professional play. Giles has hardly played in years but is immediately showing this type of vision and anticipation. He just naturally understands how to move the ball. That pass last night across court to Jackson for the corner 3 was stunning! Just a thing of beauty. I'm not going to downplay my excitement at what I'm seeing in fear Harry will be "weighed down" by my enthusiasm

 

[kingsfan1984]

Put in the game thread but wanted to log statement here.

Giles is our best half court player.

Probably be a few more rough patches as he continues to adjust, but for a number of stints now, when the ball goes through his hands good things happen.


Absolutely! Giles is barely played in years and look what he is able to do after a few Gleage games! Its astounding honestly. I've seen nothing like it. Jokic and doncic pass like they do after years of professional play. Giles has hardly played in years but is immediately showing this type of vision and anticipation. He just naturally understands how to move the ball. That pass last night across court to Jackson for the corner 3 was stunning! Just a thing of beauty. I'm not going to downplay my excitement at what I'm seeing in fear Harry will be "weighed down" by my enthusiasm

Also, the play from high post when he faked the pass and drove in for the jam was remarkably good read. Think it was against Green and Thompson who he beat. Sensational for a guy with soooooo little experience to be able to read and react like that against elite defenders no less.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I'm just laughing at some of these comments minimizing Giles' passing ability. Here's a guy that's played in very few games with his team in the NBA. Yet, his passing is eye-popping. He and is his teammates aren't even close to being comfortable with each other in the battle of an NBA game. Not remotely close. It takes experience in game time situations with your teammates to develop timing on passes. Yet Giles is showing eye-popping passing ability without that experience or chemistry. Think what he can do when he gets the experience and he and his teammates develop the chemistry. It's going to be a wonder to behold.

Who specifically is minimizing his passing ability? I assume you're referring to me, but I haven't come close to doing that. Saying that he's not going to be the best passing big man of all time is not minimizing anything.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Also, the play from high post when he faked the pass and drove in for the jam was remarkably good read. Think it was against Green and Thompson who he beat. Sensational for a guy with soooooo little experience to be able to read and react like that against elite defenders no less.

That was a great play, as was his instinctual kick to JJ in the corner as somone pointed out. Not a lot of bigs can make that play.

 

[kingsfan1984]

That was a great play, as was his instinctual kick to JJ in the corner as somone pointed out. Not a lot of bigs can make that play.

Jokic is one of the few

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Could he end up being a better player? Sure, although I wouldn't bet on it. Will he ever be the passer Jokic is? Nope. No chance.

Doesn't mean he can't be an elite passing big man though. Just that he's not going to go down as arguably the greatest passing big man of all time.

Seriously, people need to actually watch Jokic play if they think Giles is going to be on his level when it comes to passing the ball. It's delusion.

The delusional part is your last two sentences. Your jumping to conclusions. There's a huge difference between pointing out that Giles has the potential to be as good (or better) OR that the player being compared (Jokic) at one time not so long ago wasn't thought by others to develop into the player he's become AND actually making an absolute statement of certainty.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think anyone has said that Giles will become as good as Jokic. They just said that some of the passes he makes remind them of Jokic and that he has the potential to be something similar or better. Doesn't mean he'll ever reach it.

If 4 years ago someone had predicted that Jokic would become the player that he's become, a lot of people would have scoffed at that opinion too. That was the only point I was making.

 

[Dime Dropper]

The delusional part is your last two sentences. Your jumping to conclusions. There's a huge difference between pointing out that Giles has the potential to be as good (or better) OR that the player being compared (Jokic) at one time not so long ago wasn't thought by others to develop into the player he's become AND actually making an absolute statement of certainty. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think anyone has said that Giles will become as good a Jokic. They just said that some of the passes he makes remind them of Jokic and that he has the potential to be something similar or better. Doesn't mean he'll ever reach it.

If 4 years ago someone had predicted that Jokic would becomes the player that he's become, a lot of people would have scoffed at that opinion too. That was the only point I was making.

They have though. Those were the posts I was directly referencing, go back and check. The people jumping to conclusions are the ones saying he'll be on Jokic's level because it's so unlikely. Saying that he won't be is not jumping to conclusions, it's playing the odds. Maybe I shouldn't have categorically stated he won't reach that level, but we're talking semantics at that point.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

They have though. Those were the posts I was directly referencing, go back and check. The people jumping to conclusions are the ones saying he'll be on Jokic's level because it's so unlikely. Saying that he won't be is not jumping to conclusions, it's playing the odds. Maybe I shouldn't have categorically stated he won't reach that level, but we're talking semantics at that point.

Then I stand corrected. Either I have those people on ignore or I'm not reading it the same as you.

As for me, I made the comment that 'for all anyone knows Giles could be as good or even better'. Which is to say that nobody knows how it will turn out. Much different than saying it will happen. I'm just acknowledging that the potential and possibility is there. And further re-enforced that point by talking about how most wouldn't have predicted Jokić's meteoric rise.

I remember very well watching Jokić and Nurkić go against DeMarcus Cousins years back and never once thinking they'd be among the best in the league at some point. I could see potential and skill, but still never saw elite coming.

 

[206Fan]

Saying Giles won't ever be on the same level as Jokic as a passer is no insult. He's averaging 7.5apg! Same as Fox

 

[gunks]

I find it funny that the "Joeger hates Giles" agenda is still getting pushed.

Yes, a high IQ bigman with crazy good passing skills who can make things happen from the high post, that surely doesn't sound like a Joerger player to me!

Also, saying Giles will or won't ever pass as good as Jokic is kinda like saying Fox will never shoot like Curry. It's a crazy high bar to set either way. Aim for the stars and hit the moon or whatever. Giles is gonna get dimes on dimes with minutes.

 

[kingsfan1984]

I will bravely stand out on that limb and say Giles will be better than Jokic. Jokic is handicapped by being slower than a mudslide full of birthday cake. Holistically, Giles will be able to do far more while being at least close to his level as a passer.

 

[Nokidding]

I will bravely stand out on that limb and say Giles will be better than Jokic. Jokic is handicapped by being slower than a mudslide full of birthday cake. Holistically, Giles will be able to do far more while being at least close to his level as a passer.

Jokic can pretty much overpower every player in the NBA bar like 5 of them and has elite touch between the rim and the 3 point line which no other big has at his level, I don't think people realise how insane Jokic is this season carrying a team that has missed 4 out of it's 6 best players for good stretches. Thank godness he's handicapped by being super slow or else basketball would be pointless to watch with how dominate he would be.

 

[Joshoua]

I'm just laughing at some of these comments minimizing Giles' passing ability. Here's a guy that's played in very few games with his team in the NBA. Yet, his passing is eye-popping. He and is his teammates aren't even close to being comfortable with each other in the battle of an NBA game. Not remotely close. It takes experience in game time situations with your teammates to develop timing on passes. Yet Giles is showing eye-popping passing ability without that experience or chemistry. Think what he can do when he gets the experience and he and his teammates develop the chemistry. It's going to be a wonder to behold.

It’s not minimizing it at all comparing it to Jokic is flat out insulting. Dudes basically running oh for them and is on his way his way to being a 1st ballet HOF player

 

[sactowndog]

They have though. Those were the posts I was directly referencing, go back and check. The people jumping to conclusions are the ones saying he'll be on Jokic's level because it's so unlikely. Saying that he won't be is not jumping to conclusions, it's playing the odds. Maybe I shouldn't have categorically stated he won't reach that level, but we're talking semantics at that point.

You are wrong. I said envision Jokic and Plumlee to see what Giles and Bagley could be. I don’t pretend to predict the future. I will state things I have been told such as the FO loves Giles. Again, Giles could be Jokic if he hits his ceiling. He is by no means guaranteed of hitting it but he has a chance with his vision and anticipation.

 

[sactowndog]

I find it funny that the "Joeger hates Giles" agenda is still getting pushed.

Yes, a high IQ bigman with crazy good passing skills who can make things happen from the high post, that surely doesn't sound like a Joerger player to me!

Also, saying Giles will or won't ever pass as good as Jokic is kinda like saying Fox will never shoot like Curry. It's a crazy high bar to set either way. Aim for the stars and hit the moon or whatever. Giles is gonna get dimes on dimes with minutes.

Well if you are referring to me, let’s see his minutes once Bagley returns. I don’t think it was a coincidence Giles had limited to no minutes for much of the time Bagley was out. Nor was it a coincidence Grant went on air and called for more Giles minutes. We share an opinion about Giles talent.

Hopefully I am wrong on this one. I would be happy to list it prominently.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

comparing it to Jokic is flat out insulting. Dudes basically running oh for them and is on his way his way to being a 1st ballet HOF player

It's also insulting to act as if Jokić has been doing this for 10+ years or that things can't change. Jokić is only in his 4th year. And 2 years ago, this topic would have been laughable.

If that much has changed with Jokić's game (in 2 years time) to now be considered future HOF material (by you), then why can't the same be possible for other players that are a few years behind in their development?

I shouldn't be surprised by your attitude, though, as you're one of many on the Doncić bandwagon that are unwilling to allow things to play out over the next couple years and have instead made up your mind based upon the here and now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not categorically stating that Bagley will be as good or better than Luka or that Giles will be as good or better than Jokić. I have no idea how things are going to eventually play out. The only thing I'm contesting is the lack of open-mindedness toward the possibility of either or both occurring.

Both MB3 and Harry Giles have the athleticism and skill set to match or exceed the other players in question. Whether they will actually achieve it or not is still up in the air. Still, it's nowhere close to insulting for anybody to entertain the possibility.

 

[Joshoua]

It's also insulting to act as if Jokić has been doing this for 10+ years or that things can't change. Jokić is only in his 4th year. And 2 years ago, this topic would have been laughable.

If that much has changed with Jokić's game (in 2 years time) to now be considered future HOF material (by you), then why can't the same be possible for other players that are a few years behind in their development?

I shouldn't be surprised by your attitude, though, as you're one of many on the Doncić bandwagon that are unwilling to allow things to play out over the next couple years and have instead made up your mind based upon the here and now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not categorically stating that Bagley will be as good or better than Luka or that Giles will be as good or better than Jokić. I have no idea how things are going to eventually play out. The only thing I'm contesting is the lack of open-mindedness toward the possibility of either or both occurring.

Both MB3 and Harry Giles have the athleticism and skill set to match or exceed the other players in question. Whether they will actually achieve it or not is still up in the air. Still, it's nowhere close to insulting for anybody to entertain the possibility.

What topic would’ve been laughable 2 years ago?

He averaged 10-7-2.5 in 21mpg at 20 years old in his rookie year the talent was and is there. And you just can’t say oh Jokic improved that much so our players will as well.

 

[lwc]

Plastic, sadly. So many people still buy the plastic bags and don’t bring their own.

Buy plastic bags? As in the bags you normally get for free at the store? Do stores in California charge for each plastic bag or something? this is an interesting development for me.