SF Trades

[twslam07]

Trade #1
SAC Gets: Josh Jackson
SAC Gives: Kosta Koufos, 2019 2nd (least favorable of MIL/SAC), 2019 2nd (most favorable of LAL/MIN), 2020 2nd (DET), & 2021 2nd (MEM)
Why for SAC? The Kings consolidate their 2nd round picks to give Jackson another shot. His blue collar attitude & ability to run the floor would go well with our current group of youngsters.

PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Bogdanovic / Hield / McLemore
SF - Jo. Jackson / Shumpert / Ju. Jackson
PF - Bjelica / Giles / Labissiere
C - Cauley-Stein / Bagley / Randolph

PHX Gets: Kosta Koufos, 2019 2nd (least favorable of MIL/SAC), 2019 2nd (most favorable of LAL/MIN), 2020 2nd (DET), & 2021 2nd (MEM)
PHX Gives: Josh Jackson
Why for PHX? The Suns (or their fans) seem to be souring on Jackson. They have a lot of wings and need players that can space the floor for Ayton. They move on from Jackson while getting four future 2nd round picks in return.

PG - Canaan / Okobo / Melton
SG - Booker / Crawford / Daniels
SF - Ariza / Warren / Bridges
PF - Anderson / Bender / Holmes
C - Ayton / Koufos / Chandler



Trade #2
SAC Gets: Austin Rivers & Kelly Oubre
SAC Gives: Ben McLemore, 2019 2nd (2nd least favorable of CLE/ORL/HOU), & 2020 2nd (MIA)
Why for SAC? We take on some extra salary this year while acquiring a SF for the future that could hypothetically fit well.

PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Bogdanovic / Hield / Rivers
SF - Oubre / Shumpert / Jackson
PF - Bjelica / Bagley / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Koufos / Labissiere
*waive Randolph

WAS Gets: Ben McLemore, 2019 2nd (2nd least favorable of CLE/ORL/HOU), & 2020 2nd (MIA)
WAS Gives: Austin Rivers & Kelly Oubre
Why for WAS? It saves them from entering the luxury tax this season while also preventing them from having to enter it next season. Meanwhile they get two future 2nd round draft picks.

PG - Wall / Satoransky
SG - Beal / McLemore
SF - Porter / Brown
PF - Morris / Green
C - Howard / Mahinmi / Smith / Bryant


------------------------------------------

We could technically do both trades and have a roster of:

PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Bogdanovic / Hield / Rivers
SF - Oubre / Jo. Jackson / Shumpert / Ju. Jackson
PF - Bjelica / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Bagley / Labissiere

Taking into account the cap holds for Cauley-Stein & Oubre next year, we'd have about $28 mil in cap space with the following players still under contract:

PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Bogdanovic / Hield
SF - Oubre / Jo. Jackson / Ju. Jackson
PF - Bjelica / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Bagley / Labissiere

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It seems to me that in both of these trades we are paying pennies on the dollar, which means that I can't imagine the Suns or the Wizards would do it.

I don't think the Suns would give up on the #4 pick from last year's draft for an expiring vet and four second round picks, just because their fans are grumbling a bit. That's faster than we gave up on PapaG!!

The Wizards may well have to do something about their Porter-Oubre conundrum, but assuming they put one or the other on the market, I'm really confident they can return more than just two second-round picks.

 

[SacTownKid]

I want to see a trade of Justin Jackson for Bogdan Bogdanovic first. I have a feeling the Kings might not need much at SF once that happens. They need to see that IMO because what they've been looking for might be right under their nose.

Oh, and the Suns ain't doing that.

 

[macadocious]

Please make the trades semi plausible. K thx

 

[kingsboi]

Suns just drafted Jackson, who's shown glimpses of being a decent starter. What incentive would the Suns have, in a rebuilding phase, to move one of their core pieces? The Kings need to wait until Free Agency and try to nab one of the available SF's then....if not successful, work the trade market. Until then, stay the course unless someone like Porter becomes available.

 

[twslam07]

Please make the trades semi plausible. K thx

A suns fan came up with the Josh Jackson trade just so you know. It may be a bit in our favor but the fact that there are people on the other side saying they would be willing to do it doesn’t make it unrealistic.

As for Oubre, why is that not plausible? Wizards do not want to pay the luxury tax. Keeping Oubre next year guarantees that. He only has 1 year left on his rookie deal and is still trying to figure his game out. Good luck trying to get a 1st. Instead, they get two 2nds one of which will be a good 2nd (CLE/ORL) and we’re saving them from the luxury tax this year.

 

[hrdboild]

A suns fan came up with the Josh Jackson trade just so you know. It may be a bit in our favor but the fact that there are people on the other side saying they would be willing to do it doesn’t make it unrealistic.

As for Oubre, why is that not plausible? Wizards do not want to pay the luxury tax. Keeping Oubre next year guarantees that. He only has 1 year left on his rookie deal and is still trying to figure his game out. Good luck trying to get a 1st. Instead, they get two 2nds one of which will be a good 2nd (CLE/ORL) and we’re saving them from the luxury tax this year.

These trades are both ludicrous. You're trading an expiring contract and a second round pick for a guy Phoenix drafted 4th overall a year ago or a guy Washington is potentially grooming as an Otto Porter or Bradley Beal replacement when they inevitably blow up their dysfunctional team. You may be able to find one fan of either team that supports a trade like this but they are not representative of the fan base as a whole. Otto Porter might be obtainable for all our expirings at this point but is that even a wise decision with a big Cauley-Stein contract extension coming up?

My general suggestion would be to aim lower but look for particular skills that we're lacking. Bjelica has been one of the more succesful free agent signings here in recent memory. That's the type of player we need to look for -- underutilized but the right fit for this team.

 

[dude12]

So the 3 guys you just listed, I was listening hearing some dissension on Washington and the names that came up were Rivers and Oubre among others. And then you have already heard about Jackson and his organization possibly souring on him. I’d think before the Kings acquire anyone like this they vet it with background checks. I think they have a good thing going in bringing the team culture together......why risk a knucklehead?

 

[VF21]

Way too complicated. I think we're gonna be able to find a SF in free agency without trading away the farm.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Would absolutely do those trades...no way WAS or PHX does

 

[Joshoua]

Josh Jackson? Lock the damn thread

 

[twslam07]

These trades are both ludicrous. You're trading an expiring contract and a second round pick for a guy Phoenix drafted 4th overall a year ago

Whoa whoa whoa. A 2nd round draft pick? The deal is sending four 2nd round draft picks their way. Now you can argue that's still not enough but let's not misrepresent the trade.

or a guy Washington is potentially grooming as an Otto Porter or Bradley Beal replacement when they inevitably blow up their dysfunctional team. You may be able to find one fan of either team that supports a trade like this but they are not representative of the fan base as a whole. Otto Porter might be obtainable for all our expirings at this point but is that even a wise decision with a big Cauley-Stein contract extension coming up?

Talking on other forums, expirings for Porter is not going to cut it.

As for Oubre, let's put it this way... If he becomes as good as Porter, everyone would be ecstatic. Bird in hand is worth two in the bush. If they want to move Porter without attaching Mahinmi's contract, I'm open to hearing them out. If they want some 2nds or a guy like Labissiere, I may be willing to pull the trigger.

As for trading Porter being a wise decision, we'd still have $17 mil in cap space next year while taking into account Cauley-Stein's cap hold. We'll be fine.

 

[twslam07]

So the 3 guys you just listed, I was listening hearing some dissension on Washington and the names that came up were Rivers and Oubre among others. And then you have already heard about Jackson and his organization possibly souring on him. I’d think before the Kings acquire anyone like this they vet it with background checks. I think they have a good thing going in bringing the team culture together......why risk a knucklehead?

My mindset was to always release Rivers upon arrival.

As for Oubre & Jackson being knuckleheads, can you post some links? I meant Suns fans are souring on Jackson in regards to his play not his attitude.

 

[twslam07]

We could try for a trade like:

Kelly Oubre
Jason Smith

for

2019 2nd (2nd least favorable of CLE/ORL/HOU)
2020 2nd (MIA)
*waive McLemore & Randolph

The Kings get their young SF while also having $35 mil in cap space next year (factoring in Cauley-Stein's & Oubre's cap holds)
The Wizards get out of the tax this year, free up minutes for Brown, and get some future 2nds instead of losing Oubre for nothing in free agency.

 

[206Fan]

We could try for a trade like:

Kelly Oubre
Jason Smith

for

2019 2nd (2nd least favorable of CLE/ORL/HOU)
2020 2nd (MIA)
*waive McLemore & Randolph

The Kings get their young SF while also having $35 mil in cap space next year (factoring in Cauley-Stein's & Oubre's cap holds)
The Wizards get out of the tax this year, free up minutes for Brown, and get some future 2nds instead of losing Oubre for nothing in free agency.

I think it's certain that the Wizards could get a lot more for Oubre than 2 2nd rounders. He's improved this year. If they trade him, it'll be at least for a 1st round protected 5 pick or something.

 

[hrdboild]

Whoa whoa whoa. A 2nd round draft pick? The deal is sending four 2nd round draft picks their way. Now you can argue that's still not enough but let's not misrepresent the trade.



Talking on other forums, expirings for Porter is not going to cut it.

As for Oubre, let's put it this way... If he becomes as good as Porter, everyone would be ecstatic. Bird in hand is worth two in the bush. If they want to move Porter without attaching Mahinmi's contract, I'm open to hearing them out. If they want some 2nds or a guy like Labissiere, I may be willing to pull the trigger.

As for trading Porter being a wise decision, we'd still have $17 mil in cap space next year while taking into account Cauley-Stein's cap hold. We'll be fine.

Make it 12 second round picks if you want, it won't matter. Those are basically worthless. Trading for either of those guys is going to cost us a first round pick or one of our young guys on a rookie deal.

As for getting Porter for expirings... I don't know that Washington is at that point yet but they need to blow it up. They're completely locked in to three players who aren't getting along, aren't winning, and are filling up their entire salary cap. Something has got to give sooner or later. I actually think Wall is the guy who goes first for the same reason Vlade traded DeMarcus. The timeline is up for that group and Wall's personality seems to be grating on everyone. But he might be untradeable making 35 to 40 million a year. I can think of maybe 4 or 5 teams who could be interested.

Porter's contract wouldn't cripple our salary cap but he would effectively eliminate all other options for us for several years. You're re-signing Cauley-Stein and that's it if you want to plan ahead and save some cap space to pay all the rookies in a couple years. If he isn't a perfect fit he becomes borderline untradeable and now we're the team waiting out a massive contract with no possibility of improving the team other than mid level deals. There's some appeal there if you can get him for nothing (expiring contracts) but we'd better fully explore those locker room issues first. Team chemistry can be delicate and I don't know that I would risk upsetting it now that we finally seem to have some.

 

[twslam07]

Make it 12 second round picks if you want, it won't matter. Those are basically worthless.

I think this is where we part ways in this thread. Our definitions of "worthless" are very different.

 

[hrdboild]

I think this is where we part ways in this thread. Our definitions of "worthless" are very different.

Fair enough.

 

[twslam07]

Fair enough.

I will say that I have received positive responses to the following trade from Wizard fans:

Kelly Oubre
Ian Mahinmi

for

Kosta Koufos

The trade gets the Wizard out of the tax this year and removes Mahinmi's long term salary. Not to mention they get an upgrade in Koufos this year and open up minutes for Brown.

Just another example of getting buy in from the other side without having to sacrifice a 1st for Oubre.

 

[twslam07]

I think it's certain that the Wizards could get a lot more for Oubre than 2 2nd rounders. He's improved this year. If they trade him, it'll be at least for a 1st round protected 5 pick or something.

A top 5 protected 1st? That's not a lot of protection for a semi-young, roleplaying SF who could be making anywhere from $10-$20 mil/year depending how his season goes.

I think other options (like the one above) are realistic and benefit both sides.

 

[macadocious]

So we could send out KK, Zbo, Shump, and JJ, maybe a 2nd or two.

Take back Porter and Ian.

Basically the cost of getting rid of Ian is porter and you get two decent vets back in KK and Shump.

I still don’t know if Was would do that

 

[twslam07]

So we could send out KK, Zbo, Shump, and JJ, maybe a 2nd or two.

Take back Porter and Ian.

Basically the cost of getting rid of Ian is porter and you get two decent vets back in KK and Shump.

I still don’t know if Was would do that

Yeah I go back and forth on Oubre & Porter. However, I'm leaning more towards Oubre because of the cap space savings. The fact that we could sign him to something like $12-$16 mil/year rather than paying a spectacular role player in Porter $27-$28 mil/year is appealing to me. That extra cap savings could help us land a star (god knows they want to come here) or to help us land future 1st round picks to continue to give us shots at a star in the future.

Taking on Porter & Mahinmi essentially destroys that dream and means that our core is now finalized. Now we could get lucky and our young guys could keep developing into stars, but it's a bit risky at this point in time. I'd rather try to stay flexible in case we get to a point in time when we realize "we don't have enough."

The absolute best case scenario would be to trade for Oubre without having Mahinmi attached to him. Ideally, I'd like to dip into the eight 2nd round draft picks we have in the next 3 years to make that happen, but if push comes to shove, i'd likely be willing to part with someone like Labssiere or Jackson to make it happen.

Perhaps a trade like....

Kelly Oubre
Austin Rivers

for

Skal Labissiere
Ben McLemore
2019 2nd (most favorable of LAL/MIN)

...is enough to get it done. From there, I'd likely waive Rivers (don't want him around the team), sign Gabriel or Williams (15th roster spot), and move forward with our $37 mil in cap space next year (factoring in Oubre's & Cauley-Stein's cap holds) with a roster of:

PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Hield / Bogdanovic
SF - Oubre / Jackson
PF - Bjelica / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Bagley

 

[hrdboild]

I will say that I have received positive responses to the following trade from Wizard fans:

Kelly Oubre
Ian Mahinmi

for

Kosta Koufos

The trade gets the Wizard out of the tax this year and removes Mahinmi's long term salary. Not to mention they get an upgrade in Koufos this year and open up minutes for Brown.

Just another example of getting buy in from the other side without having to sacrifice a 1st for Oubre.

One of my best friends is a hard core Wizards fan so my understanding of their situation is pretty strongly colored by his opinions. He thought the Porter contact was a mistake before they even signed it because it would result in them being capped out and mediocre (which is exactly what happened) and a decent percentage of the fanbase think Oubre might be a better fit anyway. I really don't see them giving up on Oubre with their big names openly feuding with each other. He could replace Porter or Beal in the lineup. Then again, their GM is one of the worst in the league so who knows. He seems to be close to Porter based on the story The Ringer ran last week on the Wizards so maybe Porter ends up being the last player standing after the fire sale? That dumpster fire in DC makes it difficult to predict what they'll do next.

I don't know what other fans are thinking but I can tell you what I would say if someone offered us an array of second round picks for one of our main rotation players. When was the last time we did anything useful with a 2nd round pick? IT and Whiteside were finds but neither one stuck around long enough to make much of an impact. Most of these guys play in the G/D league for a couple years then disappear. And having too many picks at once is self-defeating because you can't roster all of them. Also, Phoenix shipping Josh Jackson anywhere after promoting a "big 3" of him, Booker, and Ayton as the future of the team would be a major turnaround. If anything Mikal Bridges is the guy I would target on that team as he seems redundant behind Warren, Ariza, and Jackson right now. I don't know why they traded for him anyway unless they're planning to play Jackson at the 4 a lot, which would actually make sense now that I think about it.

In any case, it's early. A trade for a SF is likely but most teams are still figuring out what they have right now. Come 2019 the opportunities will become clearer. We're probably going to have to part with at least one asset that stings slightly if the return is going to be a starter though. That or we wait until the trade deadline fire sales heat up. Or we muster all of our newfound swagger and make a run at Jimmy Butler but I can't even begin to think of what that deal might look like if Houston has already got 4 first round picks on the table.

 

[macadocious]

Yeah I go back and forth on Oubre & Porter. However, I'm leaning more towards Oubre because of the cap space savings. The fact that we could sign him to something like $12-$16 mil/year rather than paying a spectacular role player in Porter $27-$28 mil/year is appealing to me. That extra cap savings could help us land a star (god knows they want to come here) or to help us land future 1st round picks to continue to give us shots at a star in the future.

Taking on Porter & Mahinmi essentially destroys that dream and means that our core is now finalized. Now we could get lucky and our young guys could keep developing into stars, but it's a bit risky at this point in time. I'd rather try to stay flexible in case we get to a point in time when we realize "we don't have enough."

The absolute best case scenario would be to trade for Oubre without having Mahinmi attached to him. Ideally, I'd like to dip into the eight 2nd round draft picks we have in the next 3 years to make that happen, but if push comes to shove, i'd likely be willing to part with someone like Labssiere or Jackson to make it happen.

Perhaps a trade like....

Kelly Oubre
Austin Rivers

for

Skal Labissiere
Ben McLemore
2019 2nd (most favorable of LAL/MIN)

...is enough to get it done. From there, I'd likely waive Rivers (don't want him around the team), sign Gabriel or Williams (15th roster spot), and move forward with our $37 mil in cap space next year (factoring in Oubre's & Cauley-Stein's cap holds) with a roster of:

PG - Fox / Ferrell / Mason
SG - Hield / Bogdanovic
SF - Oubre / Jackson
PF - Bjelica / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Bagley

You’re offering our crap plus a 2nd for two starting level (at minimum top bench rotation) players. I don’t get it. The wizards would only trade Oubre for a shot at a star or lottery pick. He’s a low salary RFA, they hold all the cards.

 

[twslam07]

You’re offering our crap plus a 2nd for two starting level (at minimum top bench rotation) players. I don’t get it. The wizards would only trade Oubre for a shot at a star or lottery pick. He’s a low salary RFA, they hold all the cards.

They do not hold all of the cards. They are above the tax line right now, and there are very, very few teams that can help them out. That's a big card we hold. If they don't move Porter & resign Oubre next year, they will (again) be above the luxury tax. This is something their owner does not want to do.

They do not hold all of the cards. We are one of the few teams that can help them out. That's called leverage.

And how is Rivers even in the same breath as a "starting level" player? He'd be the 3rd best SG on our team (potentially 4th if you want to count Shumpert). Wizards fans have been very upset with his play and puzzled why Brown isn't getting minutes over him.

 

[dude12]

My mindset was to always release Rivers upon arrival.

As for Oubre & Jackson being knuckleheads, can you post some links? I meant Suns fans are souring on Jackson in regards to his play not his attitude.

Can’t link from radio heads talking. Could be hearsay, could know something, could be speculating.

 

[bajaden]

A suns fan came up with the Josh Jackson trade just so you know. It may be a bit in our favor but the fact that there are people on the other side saying they would be willing to do it doesn’t make it unrealistic.

As for Oubre, why is that not plausible? Wizards do not want to pay the luxury tax. Keeping Oubre next year guarantees that. He only has 1 year left on his rookie deal and is still trying to figure his game out. Good luck trying to get a 1st. Instead, they get two 2nds one of which will be a good 2nd (CLE/ORL) and we’re saving them from the luxury tax this year.

While I agree with you that the Wiz are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the luxury tax, that doesn't mean they can't get something of value for either Porter or Oubre. If they truly want tax relief, the unloading Porter would be the way to go, and prior to the offseason, the one team with capspace to help in that area would be the Kings. However, once the season ends, there will be more than just the Kings bidding for a player like Oubre, and I doubt what you offered would stand up.

If I were going for Oubre I'd offer Koufos and Shumpert, plus our 2021/22 1st rd pick for Oubre and Mahinmi. That's only if I firmly believed that Oubre was going to be our SF of the future. Oubre was listed at 6'6.75" in shoes at the combine and with a standing reach of 8'6". Not bad spec's but not overwhelming either. Of course he could have grown an inch or so since entering the NBA. Point being that Porter has legit size for the position and I'm not sure Oubre does. However, would he be better than anyone else we have at present for the position? Absolutely!

 

[twslam07]

While I agree with you that the Wiz are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the luxury tax, that doesn't mean they can't get something of value for either Porter or Oubre. If they truly want tax relief, the unloading Porter would be the way to go, and prior to the offseason, the one team with capspace to help in that area would be the Kings. However, once the season ends, there will be more than just the Kings bidding for a player like Oubre, and I doubt what you offered would stand up.

If I were going for Oubre I'd offer Koufos and Shumpert, plus our 2021/22 1st rd pick for Oubre and Mahinmi. That's only if I firmly believed that Oubre was going to be our SF of the future. Oubre was listed at 6'6.75" in shoes at the combine and with a standing reach of 8'6". Not bad spec's but not overwhelming either. Of course he could have grown an inch or so since entering the NBA. Point being that Porter has legit size for the position and I'm not sure Oubre does. However, would he be better than anyone else we have at present for the position? Absolutely!

There's no way I'm sacrificing a 1st round pick for that type of trade.

The Wizards are in the tax as of right now. Their owner does not want to be in the tax. We are the ONLY team in the league that is under the cap right now meaning we are the ONLY team that can offer them that relief.

It's simple supply & demand. These are the types of positions you take advantage of in a trade and come out looking like Ainge. It's not the time to play mr. nice guy.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

While most of these trade proposals are rather optimistic, I do agree that we’ll get involved in a trade for a SF. My ideal target would be Jaylen Brown, but we have no hope of that until after Ainge moves our pick (side note: I’m pretty stunned the Celtics aren’t floating godfather offers for KAT through their media puppets like Simmons and Lowe).

There might be a chance with Josh Jackson. The thing about Phoenix is that the guy who drafted all their recent top picks just got fired. Jones has a clean slate to get rid of guys that aren’t in his plans. They obviously won’t just give Jackson away, but there is room to make a deal there. Phoenix is rumored to want Wall...perhaps we can facilitate a salary dump for taking Jackson.

 

[swisshh]

The Kings should not be offering any 1st rounders for anyone in their current situation.

The thing is that I am not sure the FA options next year are that great. I like Tobias Harris, but is he the best fit? Butler isn't coming here and doesn't fit the timeline. There's second tier guys like Terrence Ross, who remind me of Shump in a way. And then there's a lot of older guys who would be vet fill-ins. (Danny Green, DeMarre Carroll, etc.) And then there's RFA Oubre, whose situation will probably change as that Wizards mess gets untangled. The Wiz can't afford to pay him right now.

So trade does seem like the best option. Your best bargaining position is with teams facing the tax who aren't a title contender. That highlights Washington, Portland and Miami. The Bucks aren't facing the luxury, but they'll be paying Middleton a lot and likely will be over the tax if they don't clear some space. Detroit and Charlotte are close to the tax line. Kemba will have a huge payday. Outside of the Wiz, I'd say Charlotte and Portland are the teams likely to make major changes. I'd include Miami as well, but their plans sort of got leaked with the Butler saga.