Future of Willie Cauley-Stein?

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Buddy showed real improvement, especially defensively the last half of the season. I am not going to write that off to just playing against tanking teams and the level of the opposition. Fox had a lot on his plate but had his moments, but I did not see a sudden leap in his performance during the "tanking part of the season". Bogi was our best player, but I didn't see any sudden leap in his performance that you could say was attributed to other teams tanking. If anything, his consistency seemed to fall off a little bit as the season neared the end which I attribute to his lack of a real off season. Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing these three, just saying if you can't give WCS credit for showing improvement during the "tanking season" then you have to wonder about their stats during the tanking season.

Willie started off slow, but had a nice streak of 8 games during the end of November (28 min. 14.5 pts. 7.1 reb) and there were even articles about how he was putting it together, but then on the 2nd of December he hurt his back and missed 4 straight games. Back problems tend to linger (I know this personally) and can cause other issues. Later he had some knee problems and then around the first of March missed another 4 games which I believe occurred when his back acted up again. So he may very well have been dealing with back problems most of the season, hopefully if that was the case it is cleared up, now.

Willie has a lot of things to work on and he doesn't want to just settle for being the one-dimensional player that a lot of people on here want him to be (even though he could make a lot of money if he would just settle). He wants to be a complete player, but he has a long way to go and the odds are probably against him. He did not develop basketball skills properly as a youngster (you know the wide reciever stories), he was not developed properly at UK (Calipari only used him as that one-dimensional type because that's the way Calipari's system works - showcase strengths, hide weaknesses, to get them to the NBA quickly), he was not developed any under Carl, and the first half season under Joerger was all about trying to win now so he spent most of the time on the bench behind Cuz and Koufos, only averaging about 12 minutes a game until Cuz was traded.

I don't know if Willie can become that complete player, he certainly has the athleticism for it, but the skills were not developed early. It's the old skills vs. athleticism argument. But I can't fault him for trying. He shouldn't have to look back and say he could have been a more complete player if he would only have worked on those skills. Working on those other skills probably at times reduce his effectiveness in other areas of strength. Joerger has allowed him to work on those skills since the Cuz trade and has also played him in a manner that reduces the effectiveness of a one- dimensional player that many want him to be (Joerger doesn't keep him camped out in the paint).

I am not saying you are part of it, but there is a clique on here that resents that Willie won't settle. They resent his lifestyle, that he has a life outside of basketball. They refuse to give him credit for anything good he does and will criticize anybody that does give him credit because it does not fit their agenda. If you see any thread on here about WCS, you will see that it always the same ones disparaging him. If anyone says anything positive about him, they are on it in an instant. They will accuse you of "cherry picking" stats to make him look good while they "cherry pick" stats that make him look bad. They will attack his character. They will make little snide remarks about his interest in art, his fashion sense, his interests outside of basketball. They will call him a stoner and all but accuse him of being a druggie (even though he has never to my knowledge failed a drug test or had any run ins with the law over drugs, but don't let facts get in way of the agenda).

Barring injury, I think this will be the season for Willie to have his breakout and see if he can really start to become that complete player. If he can't he may have to re-evaluate what kind of player he wants to be. But at least he will have given it a shot. I saw a lot of growth in WCS last season compared to the way he looked his last year at UK and his first two seasons in the NBA. He was able to do a lot of things that he couldn't come close to doing before, so maybe he can continue that growth as well as return to some of his strengths. That would be great for the Kings, but probably bad news for his detractors, but hey, they already have an out, they have said even if he does have a really good year, it doesn't mean anything because it is a contract year and that was the only reason he got better and he will return to his former bad self as soon as he gets a contract. Haters gonna hate. I have no doubt this reply will be attacked relentlessly by some of them, but I don't care, I've had my say and I don't need to repeat myself over and over.
Very very well said. I've been watching NBA basketball for over 50 years, and so I base a lot of my comments on history. I've seen players that looked horrible out of the gate, and by their third year, they looked like potential stars. And I've seen the opposite. It'ts not looking good for Bender right now. I don't wish ill of any player, whether on the Kings or not, but I wouldn't put much money on Bender right now. I hope for his sake, I'm wrong.

There is a time when a players potential run comes to and end, and Willie is fast approaching that date. Personally, I have a good feeling about Willie this coming season. Anyway, you said it all, so no need for me to repeat it.
 
Very very well said. I've been watching NBA basketball for over 50 years, and so I base a lot of my comments on history. I've seen players that looked horrible out of the gate, and by their third year, they looked like potential stars. And I've seen the opposite. It'ts not looking good for Bender right now. I don't wish ill of any player, whether on the Kings or not, but I wouldn't put much money on Bender right now. I hope for his sake, I'm wrong.

There is a time when a players potential run comes to and end, and Willie is fast approaching that date. Personally, I have a good feeling about Willie this coming season. Anyway, you said it all, so no need for me to repeat it.
Willie might have a great season this year. The question is what will he be when he gets a new contract? I don't want to find out.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Nobody knows for sure what will happen next year but the market for overbidding on other team's RFAs hoping they won't match seems to have been temporary. Unless Willie blows up I imagine we'll get another season or two out of him on a team friendly deal.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Willie might have a great season this year. The question is what will he be when he gets a new contract? I don't want to find out.
Well I don't have a crystal ball, so there's no point in speculating. It comes down to whether he loves to play the game or not. Most great players are great because they love playing the game. Not that the money isn't important of course, but the heart and desire come from the love of the game and wanting to be great at it. I loved baseball, and I played it from sun up till sun down and then bounced a tennis ball off the walls under a street light. Amazingly I got pretty good at it. That's how it works.

I don't think anyone can tell what's in Willie's heart, but we do know that he doesn't want to accept being nothing but a defensive player. That shows ambition, and wanting to improve. Of course wanting, and doing are two different things. He may not be blessed with all the gifts necessary to become what he wants to become. But I can't fault him for trying. No one, and I mean no one could have told me what my limits were at baseball. At the end of the day, the sport itself will dictate your limits. The sooner you figure that out, the better.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
You don't have to pay one iota to WCS's lifestyle. You don't even have to divine his motivation. All you have to do is look at him running the floor, or not running the floor, to discern whether you want him on your team or not. What's the use of a fast car with no motor? It may be fine to look at. It may be fine to fantasize what it would be like with a motor. But it's not ever going to get you from point A to point B.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Then he'd be consistently bad.
That's not true. There are flashes of what WCS can be IF HE SO CHOOSES often enough to keep a lot of folks hoping he uses this year to finally buckle down and give what he's capable of every single game.

WCS reminds me in some ways of Gerald Wallace. It took exposing him to the expansion draft and sending him to Charlotte for him to wake up and smell the coffee. We don't have an expansion draft coming up, so I'm hoping he'll finally figure out that he needs to step it up to hang with all the kids that are showing love of the game (as bajaden mentioned) and a desire to be the best they can be every time they step on the court. If Willie can't/won't do that, I'm also done trying to make excuses for him.
 
Last edited:

bajaden

Hall of Famer
You don't have to pay one iota to WCS's lifestyle. You don't even have to divine his motivation. All you have to do is look at him running the floor, or not running the floor, to discern whether you want him on your team or not. What's the use of a fast car with no motor? It may be fine to look at. It may be fine to fantasize what it would be like with a motor. But it's not ever going to get you from point A to point B.
Not sure what your watching, but I see Willie running the floor. How the hell do you think he gets a lot of the alley oops? On the other hand, there's no point in running the floor if no one else is. Last season early in the year, when Hill was on the team, he walked the ball up the floor almost every time, and then pounded the ball endlessly after he got there. I saw times when Willie ran the floor and was under the basket with his hand up, and no one saw him to get him the ball.

Some of you people want to criticize Willie for not grabbing rebounds, and then criticize him for not running the floor. Folks, its one or the other. You can't be under the basket trying to grab a defensive rebound, and be running the floor at the same time. It's a decision the player has to make. Sometimes he makes the wrong one, and sometimes Willie is making the outlet to someone else that's running the floor.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
If all breaks right development wise, I think WCS would be an excellent 3rd big to have in a rotation with Giles and Bagley.

There's no way he's a starter (barring further improvement - which could happen) on a playoff team with any hopes of contention, but he could absolutely be a player off the bench. If the price is right, keep him.

He needs to tone down his wannabe 1st option act though. It's real ugly when he tries to make things happen.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Not sure what your watching, but I see Willie running the floor. How the hell do you think he gets a lot of the alley oops? On the other hand, there's no point in running the floor if no one else is. Last season early in the year, when Hill was on the team, he walked the ball up the floor almost every time, and then pounded the ball endlessly after he got there. I saw times when Willie ran the floor and was under the basket with his hand up, and no one saw him to get him the ball.

Some of you people want to criticize Willie for not grabbing rebounds, and then criticize him for not running the floor. Folks, its one or the other. You can't be under the basket trying to grab a defensive rebound, and be running the floor at the same time. It's a decision the player has to make. Sometimes he makes the wrong one, and sometimes Willie is making the outlet to someone else that's running the floor.
I still have on my DVR several Kings' games from last year and I have watched WCS very carefully. He jogs instead of sprints, he spends more time conserving his energy than expending his energy, he gets very few layups at the end of fast breaks (I think Kosta had more than he did last year). Instead of running the floor after getting the occasional defensive rebound he seems to regard it as an opportunity to rest as opposed to sprint the floor. And that's only talking about offense. How many defensive run-downs did you see WCS do last year? Was there one? There must have been one, there's always one outlier, but for a guy who is the Flash he was amazing in only how little he ran back on the defensive end last year. Going through-the-motions for a player headed into his 4th year isn't auspicious.

If WCS is on a good team, he doesn't have the ball go through him at the high post to showcase him (as the Kings did) and he's relegated to maybe 14-15 minutes a game and the coach tells him he better go all-out on defense and rebound the ball and forget about being a top 3 offensive weapon on the team if he wants to get off the bench.

It will be interesting to see what WCS earns in the next contract negotiation he has. It may give some inkling as to how the league values him. It will also be interesting to see what, if anything, the Kings can get for him in a trade. I hope there are teams out there that value him as highly as you and some others on this board value him. The Kings will then get back a good player in return. But that seems unlikely to me.
 
The thing about Willie is that he has certainly gotten better in his time here, just not at the things we want him to be better at. Offensively he has improved a ton but it seems like it has come at the expense of what got him drafted. The thing is with him being serviceable on offense now, if he were to shift focus back to defense he would actually be a very solid all around big. His pick and roll coverage is extremely good for a Center.
 
Willie still fakes himself out several times each game trying to make offensive moves and falls down. It is very unbecoming. He has plenty of 4 rebound games. He is not the shot blocker we hoped for. His defense is okay but not the cover all 5 positions guy we hoped we were getting. He won't be starting by the middle of the season.
 
Willie still fakes himself out several times each game trying to make offensive moves and falls down. It is very unbecoming. He has plenty of 4 rebound games. He is not the shot blocker we hoped for. His defense is okay but not the cover all 5 positions guy we hoped we were getting. He won't be starting by the middle of the season.
I fear that you are correct. But I hope that he has a break-out year (finally) and shows more intensity and consistency. Even if he has a break-out year, I suspect that many posters around here will still want him gone because he once disappointed them.
 
Willie still fakes himself out several times each game trying to make offensive moves and falls down. It is very unbecoming. He has plenty of 4 rebound games. He is not the shot blocker we hoped for. His defense is okay but not the cover all 5 positions guy we hoped we were getting. He won't be starting by the middle of the season.
That's what happens when you try to be something you're not. Koufos would be falling all over the place if he was trying to do the same moves as well. Instead, he keeps it simple and has his hook and his floater and shoots efficiently because of it.

People get fooled too often by Willie's "array" of offensive moves because some of them can be eye opening. Problem is, they're inefficient....so what's the point? It's losing basketball 101. Willie is tied with Nurkic as the least efficient centers in the league that get a decent amount of minutes. But still, I don't blame Willie as much as I blame Joerger for that. He should have nipped that 20ppg pipe dream in the bud the year before last.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Willie still fakes himself out several times each game trying to make offensive moves and falls down. It is very unbecoming. He has plenty of 4 rebound games. He is not the shot blocker we hoped for. His defense is okay but not the cover all 5 positions guy we hoped we were getting. He won't be starting by the middle of the season.
LOL.
 
Looks like WCS is getting some love from players he has played against, KD and CJ McCollum!

They singled him out as one of the up and coming young bigs to watch out for!

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2018...e-willie-cauley-stein-wake-up-call-for-willie
Good read but the paragraphs of advice to Willie seem overly gratuitous. Imo he is a hard worker and doesn't need a wake-up call.
His brain is hard-wired to be what it is and his priorities on the court reflect that. Only experience is going to change that and hopefully he's had
enough of it to shine this year.
 
Last edited:

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Willie still fakes himself out several times each game trying to make offensive moves and falls down. It is very unbecoming. He has plenty of 4 rebound games. He is not the shot blocker we hoped for. His defense is okay but not the cover all 5 positions guy we hoped we were getting. He won't be starting by the middle of the season.
You know who else used to fall down under the basket at times. Huh? Some worthless center named Cousins!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't hear anyone mentioning that when it happened. I didn't hear any criticism then...
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Did you actually watch any kings games?
What in the hell are you talking about?

Willie is NOT a hard worker.
Willie ABSOLUYELY DOES need a wake-up call.
What the hell do you know about it? Are you with him when he works out? There was a post on twitter showing that Willie is putting up a thousand jumpers a day, along with all the other work he's doing. I watched every single Kings game last season, and the year before and the year before. I've been critical of Willie at times, and I've praised him at times. But some of you people see what you want to see. What you don't know, is what you can't see. Let me know the next time you sit down with Willie and have a heart to heart. I figure it must happen from time to time since you seem to know whats in his mind and heart.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That's what happens when you try to be something you're not. Koufos would be falling all over the place if he was trying to do the same moves as well. Instead, he keeps it simple and has his hook and his floater and shoots efficiently because of it.

People get fooled too often by Willie's "array" of offensive moves because some of them can be eye opening. Problem is, they're inefficient....so what's the point? It's losing basketball 101. Willie is tied with Nurkic as the least efficient centers in the league that get a decent amount of minutes. But still, I don't blame Willie as much as I blame Joerger for that. He should have nipped that 20ppg pipe dream in the bud the year before last.
Really! So you think that Willie is an inefficient offensive player. Well, lets compare him with the man he replaced. Here are Cousins eFG% for his first three years in the league. 43.2% - 44.9% - 46.7%. He did pull it up to 49.6% in his 4th year, which is respectable for a center in the league. So lets take a look at inefficient Willie's first three years in the league. 56.3% - 53.0% - 50.4%. Hmmm, what's wrong with this picture? What the! It looks like Willie is far more efficient than Cousins was his first three years.

I'm wondering what your definition of inefficient is, or at least how someone decided that Willie and Nurkic are the least efficient centers. What are the numbers their using. Willie's offensive efficiency is certainly not at the bottom of the league. What is your reference please?
 
What the hell do you know about it? Are you with him when he works out? There was a post on twitter showing that Willie is putting up a thousand jumpers a day, along with all the other work he's doing. I watched every single Kings game last season, and the year before and the year before. I've been critical of Willie at times, and I've praised him at times. But some of you people see what you want to see. What you don't know, is what you can't see. Let me know the next time you sit down with Willie and have a heart to heart. I figure it must happen from time to time since you seem to know whats in his mind and heart.
I said he is not a hard worker. What the hell does that have to do with "his mind and heart"?

You watch every game, so what. So did I.

I'm giving my opinion. Telling me to sit and have a heart-to-heart was the stupidest crap i have ever heard and it has NOTHING to do with what I said (u hero).

My opinion and your opinion don't matter. Soon we will be raving about Giles soon anyway.

His jumper, just like his free throws are getting worse. He posts one video and we are supposed to rave about him?

I had high hopes for him, but all i feel now is disappointment.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
Really! So you think that Willie is an inefficient offensive player. Well, lets compare him with the man he replaced. Here are Cousins eFG% for his first three years in the league. 43.2% - 44.9% - 46.7%. He did pull it up to 49.6% in his 4th year, which is respectable for a center in the league. So lets take a look at inefficient Willie's first three years in the league. 56.3% - 53.0% - 50.4%. Hmmm, what's wrong with this picture? What the! It looks like Willie is far more efficient than Cousins was his first three years.

I'm wondering what your definition of inefficient is, or at least how someone decided that Willie and Nurkic are the least efficient centers. What are the numbers their using. Willie's offensive efficiency is certainly not at the bottom of the league. What is your reference please?
It's easier to be efficient when you aren't the focal point on offense, just ask DeAndre Jordan who has led the league in FG% how many times playing with Paul?
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
It's easier to be efficient when you aren't the focal point on offense, just ask DeAndre Jordan who has led the league in FG% how many times playing with Paul?
He stated that he wasn't efficient, OK! I just showed that he was. Now you want to argue about why. Something like 97% of Jordan's baskets are assisted. While Willie gets a lot of assisted baskets, it's not nearly as many as Jordan. Hell, Jordan's eFG% is around 68%.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I said he is not a hard worker. What the hell does that have to do with "his mind and heart"?

You watch every game, so what. So did I.

I'm giving my opinion. Telling me to sit and have a heart-to-heart was the stupidest crap i have ever heard and it has NOTHING to do with what I said (u hero).

My opinion and your opinion don't matter. Soon we will be raving about Giles soon anyway.

His jumper, just like his free throws are getting worse. He posts one video and we are supposed to rave about him?

I had high hopes for him, but all i feel now is disappointment.

First, you asked if anyone watched him play, so I was responded to your stupid question. If you don't want the answer, then don't ask. My comment about his mind and heart was a response to his not being a hard worker, which by the way he is. He's improved every year, which doesn't matter to you because you have an agenda, which after this post, I'll never hear again because your going on my ignore list. I don't have time for ignorance.