Future of Willie Cauley-Stein?

M

mac

All-Star
#121
#121
VF21 said:
If WCS is as bad as some want to paint him, how are you going to convince either the Clippers or the Wizards to make the deal?
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It's not solely that he's bad.. there's certainly potential upside. But we also have 3 younger bigs with just as much or greater upside. If WCS isn't going to realise his potential any time soon we should move him while we can.
 
B

BigVirg

Bench
#122
#122
Kingster said:
Oubre. I heard that the Wizards want an athletic center who can get lobs off the pick and roll. They don't have cap room to get Capela and they are redundant at the SF position with Porter as the starter. If the Kings would trade WCS for Oubre and Satoransky the salaries match up close enough to be acceptable according to trade checker.
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I guess it depends on what they think it would cost to retain Oubre. If he can be had for less with similar production then maybe they'd prefer to get rid of their max contract player that didn't take another step in his natural progression as a player. Interesting debate to say the least and I hope Vlade attempts to trade with them
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#123
#123
mac said:
It's not solely that he's bad.. there's certainly potential upside. But we also have 3 younger bigs with just as much or greater upside. If WCS isn't going to realise his potential any time soon we should move him while we can.
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WCS is 24 (25 in August). That's not exactly "reaching for retirement" age. Let's see what happens. I strongly suspect the younger bigs are going to make it clear to WCS that he's gonna have to WORK and WORK HARD for his minutes. I think he'll rise to the challenge.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#124
#124
BigVirg said:
I guess it depends on what they think it would cost to retain Oubre. If he can be had for less with similar production then maybe they'd prefer to get rid of their max contract player that didn't take another step in his natural progression as a player. Interesting debate to say the least and I hope Vlade attempts to trade with them
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While I would classify Oubre as a good player, I'd say Porter is very good. I probably watched the Wizards more than any other team than the Kings last year because their underachievement interested me. It seemed to me that when the ball went to Porter they became better; when it didn't go to him, they became worse. Unfortunately for the Wizards, Wall is such a ball hog that Porter just didn't get enough touches. I'd be delighted to get Porter, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#125
#125
Ozymandias said:
Rebounding and defense are team activities, the team is inconsistent, not just Willie... He's clearly not the weak link in the chain, I watched 85% of their games last szn..... The Kings didn't even have a real SF last year, got a bunch of 6'5" dudes and a rookie Justin Jackson who's very weak by starting NBA SF standards..


won't happen but I wish thy could sign Ariza to play SF... would make everyone's job defensively a bit easier..
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This is thing that I saw repeatedly with WCS last year, and it has absolutely nothing with who he plays with or the fact that it's a young team learning defense. He didn't sprint back on defense. It drove me freaking crazy seeing the purported speed demon of big man being so lackadaisical getting back on defense. To me, it's like a control experiment where you eliminate all other variables in order to see the one remaining variable - effort - and find that is very wanting. I just can't tolerate that. I could really get behind him, despite all his other faults, if he would show effort. But he repeatedly proved to me that he was more interested in conserving his energy than in expending his energy. Now it may be that WCS is just one of those guys who doesn't have stamina and will never have the stamina for the NBA game and that's the best that he can do. But the end result is the same - a fast player with no motor.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#126
#126
VF21 said:
WCS is 24 (25 in August). That's not exactly "reaching for retirement" age. Let's see what happens. I strongly suspect the younger bigs are going to make it clear to WCS that he's gonna have to WORK and WORK HARD for his minutes. I think he'll rise to the challenge.
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Yes, but he also has a year left. At some point you need to make a call on whether his inconsistency is worth betting on, given that you do have younger assets to possibly rely on. The point is, just because he may no longer be worth keeping around on our team doesn't mean he's not worth it to other teams (who don't have 3 other young bigs)
 
M

mac

All-Star
#127
#127
Kingster said:
This is thing that I saw repeatedly with WCS last year, and it has absolutely nothing with who he plays with or the fact that it's a young team learning defense. He didn't sprint back on defense. It drove me freaking crazy seeing the purported speed demon of big man being so lackadaisical getting back on defense. To me, it's like a control experiment where you eliminate all other variables in order to see the one remaining variable - effort - and find that is very wanting. I just can't tolerate that. I could really get behind him, despite all his other faults, if he would show effort. But he repeatedly proved to me that he was more interested in conserving his energy than in expending his energy. Now it may be that WCS is just one of those guys who doesn't have stamina and will never have the stamina for the NBA game and that's the best that he can do. But the end result is the same - a fast player with no motor.
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Exactly. What happened to the chase down blocks from his rookie season? How often did he go out trying to get boards (and Cousins was gone, we needed the rebounding, no more box out to let others grab it BS).
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#129
#129
Nokidding said:
The thing I will most remember about WCS stint in Sacramento was the way Larry Bird (you will be a $100million dollar player)trolled us ( maybe other teams) into picking him while he got the actual gem of the big men in Miles Turner. Masterful stuff.
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Just want to point out WCS and Turner’s stats are very similar this last year. Similar in scoring, can’t get to the FTline, neither rebound at a great rate, Turner shot better from 3 but that’s not a part of WCS game and Turner only takes 2 a game..

After year 1 in both players career, Turner did look as though he was going to be one of the top big men. His next two years though have been similar to WCS’ just completed third year.
 
N

Nokidding

Bench
#130
#130
dude12 said:
Just want to point out WCS and Turner’s stats are very similar this last year. Similar in scoring, can’t get to the FTline, neither rebound at a great rate, Turner shot better from 3 but that’s not a part of WCS game and Turner only takes 2 a game..

After year 1 in both players career, Turner did look as though he was going to be one of the top big men. His next two years though have been similar to WCS’ just completed third year.
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Difference is he's anchoring a defense and spacing the floor for other star players and is much younger and way better potetnial player. Turners competing for stats with 5-7 quality NBA players and he's like 3 years younger and plays harder. Yeah they are putting up similar stats but one is doing it in games that matter and making his team better. Turner is a quality starting big man who's skill-set most teams are dying for WCS is not.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#132
#132
Nokidding said:
Difference is he's anchoring a defense and spacing the floor for other star players and is much younger and way better potetnial player. Turners competing for stats with 5-7 quality NBA players and he's like 3 years younger and plays harder. Yeah they are putting up similar stats but one is doing it in games that matter and making his team better. Turner is a quality starting big man who's skill-set most teams are dying for WCS is not.
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I agree with some of your points but to say spacing the floor? Turners not a threat there, they sag on him. I question the anchoring the defense part. I’m not sure he’s better than WCS on defense. Turner has Oladipo guarding guys while we have nothing like that except Temple when he’s in. Neither guy is a good rebounder for a big.

I’m just saying that Turner is not as good as some make him out to be and WCS is not as bad as some make him out to be.......ignoring the WCS lack of effort at times.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#133
#133
dude12 said:
Just want to point out WCS and Turner’s stats are very similar this last year. Similar in scoring, can’t get to the FTline, neither rebound at a great rate, Turner shot better from 3 but that’s not a part of WCS game and Turner only takes 2 a game..

After year 1 in both players career, Turner did look as though he was going to be one of the top big men. His next two years though have been similar to WCS’ just completed third year.
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Nokidding said:
Difference is he's anchoring a defense and spacing the floor for other star players and is much younger and way better potetnial player. Turners competing for stats with 5-7 quality NBA players and he's like 3 years younger and plays harder. Yeah they are putting up similar stats but one is doing it in games that matter and making his team better. Turner is a quality starting big man who's skill-set most teams are dying for WCS is not.
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I think you guys are both right. Turner is a bit overrated but I don't think many people would take WCS over him.
 
B

BigVirg

Bench
#134
#134
Kingster said:
While I would classify Oubre as a good player, I'd say Porter is very good. I probably watched the Wizards more than any other team than the Kings last year because their underachievement interested me. It seemed to me that when the ball went to Porter they became better; when it didn't go to him, they became worse. Unfortunately for the Wizards, Wall is such a ball hog that Porter just didn't get enough touches. I'd be delighted to get Porter, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
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I'm not disagreeing that Porter is the superior player but when a team gives out Max money then they are expecting you to play at an all star level Which Porter certainly is not. Maybe it's the system or the players around him but he definitely doesn't look like a star at this point so it's not crazy to think the Wizards have buyers remorse and would want to get out of that contract so they can retool and add another piece while retaining Oubre for much cheaper. It's really not an argument towards you, just playing devils advocate.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#136
#136
King Baller said:
Willie is the best defensive Big on the Kings. In fact no one else is even close. Koufos is the only other Big in the conversation. Kosta is a fair defender around the basket but he is easy for opposing players to get around the further out he goes.

Before we run WCS out of town perhaps we should consider what he does well:)
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*when he wants to be, which is about once every 5 games
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#137
#137
BigVirg said:
I'm not disagreeing that Porter is the superior player but when a team gives out Max money then they are expecting you to play at an all star level Which Porter certainly is not. Maybe it's the system or the players around him but he definitely doesn't look like a star at this point so it's not crazy to think the Wizards have buyers remorse and would want to get out of that contract so they can retool and add another piece while retaining Oubre for much cheaper. It's really not an argument towards you, just playing devils advocate.
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Oh, yeah. I get that. The Wizards are strange bird, and they just might make some radical changes that involve Porter. Like you say, they pay him All Star money, but he's not an All Star. So it is possible. I just don't want to get my hopes up on that one.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#138
#138
mac said:
Exactly. What happened to the chase down blocks from his rookie season? How often did he go out trying to get boards (and Cousins was gone, we needed the rebounding, no more box out to let others grab it BS).
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I really think Koufos had more chase down blocks than WCS did last year. And that's saying something, considering Koufos isn't exactly a track star or a shot blocker. For sure, Koufos had more "chase-downs," period, than WCS.
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#139
#139
Any team that pays Capella big money is going to regret is. He's a product of the system their running out there and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I mentioned earlier I would shop WCS and I stand by that but at the same time it would have to be for a clear cut no brainer deal. Anything outside of that I would keep on developing him and much of his criticisms are greatly exaggerated by Kings fans and he's not a finished product either.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#141
#141
upinsmoke said:
Any team that pays Capella big money is going to regret is. He's a product of the system their running out there and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I mentioned earlier I would shop WCS and I stand by that but at the same time it would have to be for a clear cut no brainer deal. Anything outside of that I would keep on developing him and much of his criticisms are greatly exaggerated by Kings fans and he's not a finished product either.
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I'd say it depends on how much money he gets. He's a good defender, rebounder, and shot-blocker, and he's young. He's not bad offensively either, he's just not a go to guy. But as an anchor he has value. I agree that he gets a lot of good looks and dunks due to the system, but Capela is a damn good player and he's only 24. He's not a max player but he can command good money.
 
F

Folsomkingsfan

Starter
#142
#142
Kingster said:
While I would classify Oubre as a good player, I'd say Porter is very good. I probably watched the Wizards more than any other team than the Kings last year because their underachievement interested me. It seemed to me that when the ball went to Porter they became better; when it didn't go to him, they became worse. Unfortunately for the Wizards, Wall is such a ball hog that Porter just didn't get enough touches. I'd be delighted to get Porter, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
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Wall is not even close to a ball hog. Yes he takes some bad shots, but he is nowhere near ball hog territory. His usage rate isn't dominant and he only takes the second most shots a game on that team. He also hovers around 10 assists per game every season. He's definitely pass first. The Wizards failed because their big men are garbage and their bench is garbage. Wall has nothing to do with it.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#143
#143
Folsomkingsfan said:
Wall is not even close to a ball hog. Yes he takes some bad shots, but he is nowhere near ball hog territory. His usage rate isn't dominant and he only takes the second most shots a game on that team. He also hovers around 10 assists per game every season. He's definitely pass first. The Wizards failed because their big men are garbage and their bench is garbage. Wall has nothing to do with it.
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He is a ball hog and that's why all the controversy when he went out with injury and the team loved it because they finally got the ball.
 
parker

parker

Bench
#145
#145
mac said:
Yes, but he also has a year left. At some point you need to make a call on whether his inconsistency is worth betting on, given that you do have younger assets to possibly rely on. The point is, just because he may no longer be worth keeping around on our team doesn't mean he's not worth it to other teams (who don't have 3 other young bigs)
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I think I wait to see how Giles pans out before I do anything with Willie. If Giles is either limited in minutes or games because of injury, the Kings would be better served to have Willie on the team than to have to go with Skal or KK.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#146
#146
parker said:
I think I wait to see how Giles pans out before I do anything with Willie. If Giles is either limited in minutes or games because of injury, the Kings would be better served to have Willie on the team than to have to go with Skal or KK.
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Def wait until we see Bagley and Giles in summer. Would be great if they moved Z-Bo for a SF to help balance on the team. Since they are not in tank mode, piece it together amongst the bigs. They all bring something different with the hope that Giles and Bagley are more well rounded.
 
datamanwes

datamanwes

G-League
#148
#148
NOt everyone is going to be a star in this league and maybe WCS is a role player on this team. Not sure that is such a bad thing. Not every player can be the man. That said

I agree WCS biggest problem is effort or motor. Well we have Marvin now. Willie has an ego and he is not going to let the kids Giles and MB3 take all his playing time and place on the team without stepping up. And if that fire does not burn within him then players like Giles and Fox or MB3 will be pushing him. NOt to mention it is contract year.

The only big I would try and get rid of right now is Zach as I just don't see him as a fit any longer. If we can get something real good for Kosta then adios to him as well. Maybe a first rounder in 19 from a contender at the trade deadline. NOw maybe WCS will have some real value at the deadline, If yes then we can talk
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#149
#149
Kingster said:
He is a ball hog and that's why all the controversy when he went out with injury and the team loved it because they finally got the ball.
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if Wall is a ball hog then so is CP3, Lowry & Rondo.....not sure where this is coming from, Wall has always set up his teammates since entering the league and the Wizards would be a lottery team if he missed significant time
 
N

notoriousBEN3

Bench
#150
#150
datamanwes said:
NOt everyone is going to be a star in this league and maybe WCS is a role player on this team. Not sure that is such a bad thing. Not every player can be the man. That said

I agree WCS biggest problem is effort or motor. Well we have Marvin now. Willie has an ego and he is not going to let the kids Giles and MB3 take all his playing time and place on the team without stepping up. And if that fire does not burn within him then players like Giles and Fox or MB3 will be pushing him. NOt to mention it is contract year.

The only big I would try and get rid of right now is Zach as I just don't see him as a fit any longer. If we can get something real good for Kosta then adios to him as well. Maybe a first rounder in 19 from a contender at the trade deadline. NOw maybe WCS will have some real value at the deadline, If yes then we can talk
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I'm definitely with you, but I think the motivation to move him is because if he's only a role player, but demands big money for his next contract, is he worth it? and if not, wouldn't it be wise to try and get something in return for him? I do think a lot depends on how much Willie values himself when it comes time to negotiate his contract, but he seems to have a lot of confidence in himself, despite his on court production, and I have a feeling he's going to ask for a lot of $$ when the season is over
 
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