Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)
- Thread starter Kingster
- Start date
- Status
I agree, Gasol would very good next to Bagley. If you want to maximize Bagley, thats the archetype of Center to put next to him.
I wonder if Vlade (and Joerger) think the same. If the Kings really want Bagley and Memphis really wants Doncic I could see Vlade pitching Memphis' FO on a package around #2 for Gasol + #4.
I mean if this team is going to play two bigs anyway in the future, this could actually end more successfull than drafting Doncic and handcuffing him next to Zbo and Wcs.
I wonder if Vlade (and Joerger) think the same. If the Kings really want Bagley and Memphis really wants Doncic I could see Vlade pitching Memphis' FO on a package around #2 for Gasol + #4.
I mean if this team is going to play two bigs anyway in the future, this could actually end more successfull than drafting Doncic and handcuffing him next to Zbo and Wcs.
I'm continually baffled by the overstated love of a team and player that hasn't advanced beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs and has one 50+ win season under their belt. If Rudy Gobert was so damn impactful, they'd be more successful than they have been. Good player, but not a franchise changing player for pete's sake. I wish we didn't have to deal with all this rubbish on a Kings site no less.
As you correctly pointed out, the Jazz will go as far as Donovan Mitchell can take them. He's the #1 most impactful piece on that team and was only a rookie.
As for Bamba, I'm very intrigued with him as well. But as stated, there are just other players to like better for #2 IMO.
As you correctly pointed out, the Jazz will go as far as Donovan Mitchell can take them. He's the #1 most impactful piece on that team and was only a rookie.
As for Bamba, I'm very intrigued with him as well. But as stated, there are just other players to like better for #2 IMO.
Making a consensus pick is not a way to mitigate risk. Making a consensus pick is a way to absolve yourself from blame when and if the pick goes awry. If this is your perspective you are less likely to pick the best player. You are picking from a disempowered position, where you are more fearful of getting it wrong than determined to get it right. You are led by negative emotion not positive. This is second nature to me as a trader. The player with the least amount of risk is NOT Luka. It is Bagley. The player with the more reward and risk is Bamba. Often the decision that is harder to make in the moment, the one a bit uncomfortable and heavily scrutinized, turns out to be the best. You are rewarded for a willingness to take on this discomfort when based in pragmatic analysis. Maybe Luka is the best guy to take. But this decision should NOT be affected by a consensus view.
I doubt we are trading back as long as Brandon curtails Vlade's destructive impulses. In Brandon Vlade I trust. You are going to be averse to Bamba like others if you dismiss him as a "huge project" and the next Thabeet. These labels are shortcuts in quest for certainty in an uncertain process. It is best to see the imperfect nature of labeling in lieu of a more deep dive in search for clarity absence of labels.
Where and how I get on and off the bandwagon with players and has served me well over the years, including when I jumped off the Jason Thompson bandwagon while 95% of the fan base had him pegged as the "ideal third big" instead of identifying him as the scrub he was and turned out to be (I say with no malicious intent, just calling like it is) is a simple study of reaction time for lack of a better term.
Reaction time encompasses agility, hand-eye coordination, body balance, fluidity and concise footwork. Reaction time is more or less a subset of functional athleticism and strength. Superior reaction time means you are often first to the ball. You are more anticipatory than your opponent. You may see plays before they develop and react accordingly. All great players have great reaction. Players who bust out like Thabeet or underachieve like Ben have poor to average reaction time even when there is some foundational basketball and athletic skill.
Reaction time interestingly correlates to intelligence. Bagley and Bamba entertained going to Harvard.... I rest my case
As an aside there's this video dance game where you have to move your feet really fast. The best gamers have the best reaction time. Asians who happen to have high relative IQ (generally speaking) dominate this game at the highest levels.
So we want a player who checks the boxes with physical profile, well-spoken off the floor (high IQ) and displays superior reaction time. If reaction time is too abstract, look for players who are fluid, well-coordinated, who defy their height relative position, that is, if they are a center they play like a wing, and if they are a wing they play like a guard. This perspective will serve you well to project future stardom! There I just spilled all my secrets.
Now back to Bamba. To emphasize the significance of reaction time I call your attention to two beautiful plays in this clip. Watch how he destroys this guard on one play and Sexton on another:
0:42: Here the kid gets down in his defensive crouch at the three point line. He shades him to drive left. The player steps back. Bamba recovers just enough to prevent the shot. At this point the player is in Bamba's Torture Chamber He cannot get the shot off and passing angles have been taken away. He drives into Bamba's body. Bamba stays vertical the whole time and destroys the shot with his off hand. That is a spectacular play by Mo! (Willie wishes he could do this, and never have once in three season with the Kings).
2:25: This play is equally spectacular. Here Sexton turns the corner and Bamba goes to meet him. His man tries to interfere and actually steps in between Bamba and Sexton. 9 times out of 10 this takes the rim protector OUT of the play. Does Bamba get taken out of the play? Nope! He erases the shot with his left hand! This the type of deep dive I am referring to that is rooted in reaction time. This is how you discern between busts and booms, Thabeets versus Embiids.
These plays do NOT imply project. They imply put-me-in-coach. I will be very excited if we draft Bamba or Bagley. I will be slightly disappointed if we draft Luka but he's a kid I can root for. If we draft Porter Jr I will pull a "Bricklayer" on this site and team.
Where and how I get on and off the bandwagon with players and has served me well over the years, including when I jumped off the Jason Thompson bandwagon while 95% of the fan base had him pegged as the "ideal third big" instead of identifying him as the scrub he was and turned out to be (I say with no malicious intent, just calling like it is) is a simple study of reaction time for lack of a better term.
Reaction time encompasses agility, hand-eye coordination, body balance, fluidity and concise footwork. Reaction time is more or less a subset of functional athleticism and strength. Superior reaction time means you are often first to the ball. You are more anticipatory than your opponent. You may see plays before they develop and react accordingly. All great players have great reaction. Players who bust out like Thabeet or underachieve like Ben have poor to average reaction time even when there is some foundational basketball and athletic skill.
Reaction time interestingly correlates to intelligence. Bagley and Bamba entertained going to Harvard.... I rest my case
As an aside there's this video dance game where you have to move your feet really fast. The best gamers have the best reaction time. Asians who happen to have high relative IQ (generally speaking) dominate this game at the highest levels.So we want a player who checks the boxes with physical profile, well-spoken off the floor (high IQ) and displays superior reaction time. If reaction time is too abstract, look for players who are fluid, well-coordinated, who defy their height relative position, that is, if they are a center they play like a wing, and if they are a wing they play like a guard. This perspective will serve you well to project future stardom! There I just spilled all my secrets.
Now back to Bamba. To emphasize the significance of reaction time I call your attention to two beautiful plays in this clip. Watch how he destroys this guard on one play and Sexton on another:
0:42: Here the kid gets down in his defensive crouch at the three point line. He shades him to drive left. The player steps back. Bamba recovers just enough to prevent the shot. At this point the player is in Bamba's Torture Chamber
He cannot get the shot off and passing angles have been taken away. He drives into Bamba's body. Bamba stays vertical the whole time and destroys the shot with his off hand. That is a spectacular play by Mo! (Willie wishes he could do this, and never have once in three season with the Kings).2:25: This play is equally spectacular. Here Sexton turns the corner and Bamba goes to meet him. His man tries to interfere and actually steps in between Bamba and Sexton. 9 times out of 10 this takes the rim protector OUT of the play. Does Bamba get taken out of the play? Nope! He erases the shot with his left hand! This the type of deep dive I am referring to that is rooted in reaction time. This is how you discern between busts and booms, Thabeets versus Embiids.
These plays do NOT imply project. They imply put-me-in-coach. I will be very excited if we draft Bamba or Bagley. I will be slightly disappointed if we draft Luka but he's a kid I can root for. If we draft Porter Jr I will pull a "Bricklayer" on this site and team.
Doncic for me is the guy that will be there playing for tip-off till the final seconds because the kid has a potent offense regardless of how many shots he will miss. In today's game, an instant offense is a hell of an arsenal. He will get welcomed to a different pace and brute of basketball though. So can he keep up with the pace and brute of the NBA?
Nah! The warriors never made Capela useless. Bamba is very lite on his feet, which should allow him to switch to the right man that is better suited for him to guard. Those switches are what NBA coaches will teach you all season long. And the essential ingredient for that for a big to be better at is are quick feet which Bamba already have plus a very good length
How Doncic will fare against quicker, more athletic opponents is a very legitimate question. But as far as "the brute of the NBA"? The NBA is actually a less physical league. Doncic will see improved spacing and less physical defense. Of course he won't get such physical picks set for him either. When I watch his games or highlights now I see so many screens set for him that would get whistled as offensive fouls in the NBA.
I want to make sure this post gets more attention. Especially since the best player in the world agrees with you and just went out of his way to explain why. It's fair to question if NBA defenders will take away some of what has made Doncic so effective in Europe. What's unquestionable to me is that Luka is one of the smarter players I've seen as a 18/19 year old and that's where most of my enthusiasm for his potential comes from. Whatever a player is elite at, other teams will see it and form a gameplan to either take that part of their game away or at least mitigate its effectiveness. Smart players will notice that and make adjustments. There are players every year who come into the league as elite physical specimens but they are unable to "think" their way through the game in real-time so their physical tools never get fully utilized. If you want to beat the best of the best you're going to need players who are smart enough to read the situation as it's unfolding and make the right decision more often than not.
The other great thing about high IQ players is that their knowledge of the game can be shared with their teammates such that one smart player turns into a team that plays smart (within reason, you still need relatively smart teammates to be able to retain that information and use it in games) whereas an elite athlete is not going to do anything to elevate the athleticism of his peers. So from a draft point of view, if you've got someone on the board who exhibits elite level basketball intelligence I think you should factor in the exponential growth that their presence might catalyze for the rest of the team.
The other great thing about high IQ players is that their knowledge of the game can be shared with their teammates such that one smart player turns into a team that plays smart (within reason, you still need relatively smart teammates to be able to retain that information and use it in games) whereas an elite athlete is not going to do anything to elevate the athleticism of his peers. So from a draft point of view, if you've got someone on the board who exhibits elite level basketball intelligence I think you should factor in the exponential growth that their presence might catalyze for the rest of the team.
Last edited:
Pace and space argument is legit.
You yust need to see last season of Rubio in europe.Not impressive to say the least but one season later he was much more productive inMinnesota.
I know he didn´t put amazing stats(he was 17 first and foremost) but you can see how much more room he has to operate and throw those corner passes.As a kid he was toying with Oladipo and putting him on his back whenever he wanted to.
Around 0:50.
I know he´s a bum.But he played in both leagues.Few intersting points but one common is "little room to operate".
CJ is underselling Doncic height but the point is the same.
If you noticed something about Doncic is that he´s faster with the ball in the hands than without one , weird but true.When he has roome to built momentum he´s pretty fast in open court.The fact that NBA defenses give up floater on PnR if the Bigman drops & will give up paint if they go small & other team has 5 3p shooters on ISOs lends me to think he could look more athletic with larger court, more space for him to build speed & get Shoulder on defender.(reece).Few examples ;
https://streamable.com/s7mse
https://streamable.com/75pg8
https://streamable.com/wbxoc
https://streamable.com/f1rig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsi4CXvXhjk
etc. he covers a lot of ground fast.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedFrequentGoral-max-1mb.gif
Also he's pretty good(1,1 ppp)attacking the clouseuts.
Did not have opportunity with Madrid beaing so much on the ball to demonstratethat often but with Fox he could.
https://streamable.com/69dib
https://streamable.com/ukyvr
https://streamable.com/3iscd
https://streamable.com/8g6ii
Ex and current NBA players agree on space argument betwen the EL/NBA and Doncic beaing a player that needs space to build up his momentum , it could really benefit him , bigger pacing lane , much more transition opportunities.Even as 17 year old kid in one game he played with NBA rules(okc game)he didin´t have any problem getting wher he wanted to on the court and finding he´s teammates with that extra roome to operate.
Ok that´s my Doncic post for today.
You yust need to see last season of Rubio in europe.Not impressive to say the least but one season later he was much more productive inMinnesota.
I know he didn´t put amazing stats(he was 17 first and foremost) but you can see how much more room he has to operate and throw those corner passes.As a kid he was toying with Oladipo and putting him on his back whenever he wanted to.
Around 0:50.
I know he´s a bum.But he played in both leagues.Few intersting points but one common is "little room to operate".
CJ is underselling Doncic height but the point is the same.
If you noticed something about Doncic is that he´s faster with the ball in the hands than without one , weird but true.When he has roome to built momentum he´s pretty fast in open court.The fact that NBA defenses give up floater on PnR if the Bigman drops & will give up paint if they go small & other team has 5 3p shooters on ISOs lends me to think he could look more athletic with larger court, more space for him to build speed & get Shoulder on defender.(reece).Few examples ;
https://streamable.com/s7mse
https://streamable.com/75pg8
https://streamable.com/wbxoc
https://streamable.com/f1rig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsi4CXvXhjk
etc. he covers a lot of ground fast.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedFrequentGoral-max-1mb.gif
Also he's pretty good(1,1 ppp)attacking the clouseuts.
Did not have opportunity with Madrid beaing so much on the ball to demonstratethat often but with Fox he could.
https://streamable.com/69dib
https://streamable.com/ukyvr
https://streamable.com/3iscd
https://streamable.com/8g6ii
Ex and current NBA players agree on space argument betwen the EL/NBA and Doncic beaing a player that needs space to build up his momentum , it could really benefit him , bigger pacing lane , much more transition opportunities.Even as 17 year old kid in one game he played with NBA rules(okc game)he didin´t have any problem getting wher he wanted to on the court and finding he´s teammates with that extra roome to operate.
Ok that´s my Doncic post for today.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status