Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

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I just can't wrap my head around anybody who thinks we should go with Bamba over Doncic. I think it would be a massive mistake to draft a HUGE project like Bamba over someone who just had a historical year in one of the most competitive leagues in the world.

IMO, drafting for defense and HOPING someone will develop offensively with such a high draft pick is a horrible idea. Ending up with a Hasheem Thabeet or a MKG type player with pick #2 and no draft pick next year would potentially kill our whole rebuild.

If Bamba is the guy, then trade back. I don't think he should even be in the conversation at #2. We botch this pick with a bust, then this team is never getting back to the playoffs.
 
I just can't wrap my head around anybody who thinks we should go with Bamba over Doncic. I think it would be a massive mistake to draft a HUGE project like Bamba over someone who just had a historical year in one of the most competitive leagues in the world.

IMO, drafting for defense and HOPING someone will develop offensively with such a high draft pick is a horrible idea. Ending up with a Hasheem Thabeet or a MKG type player with pick #2 and no draft pick next year would potentially kill our whole rebuild.

If Bamba is the guy, then trade back. I don't think he should even be in the conversation at #2. We botch this pick with a bust, then this team is never getting back to the playoffs.
I have jjj and bamba over Doncic right now but they're all so close. I see no chance of failure for jjj, Myles Turner worst case. Bamba has a lower floor imo but his upside is Gobert with a jump shot, that's an incredibly valuable player. Doncic I'm looking at as best case Gordon Hayward, worst case hedo turkoglu. That's my reasoning. They're all so close for me though.
 
I just can't wrap my head around anybody who thinks we should go with Bamba over Doncic. I think it would be a massive mistake to draft a HUGE project like Bamba over someone who just had a historical year in one of the most competitive leagues in the world.

IMO, drafting for defense and HOPING someone will develop offensively with such a high draft pick is a horrible idea. Ending up with a Hasheem Thabeet or a MKG type player with pick #2 and no draft pick next year would potentially kill our whole rebuild.

If Bamba is the guy, then trade back. I don't think he should even be in the conversation at #2. We botch this pick with a bust, then this team is never getting back to the playoffs.
Mo shot 60% from 2pt range he's a very good offensive rebounder he's got a hook shot. 68%Ft's and his shot mechanics have been tweaked for the better and he'ss gonna be markedly stronger next year and years to come.. He's efficient and doesnt need the ball, he's a major factor offensively on the break too....

This whole marginalization of Mo's offense to me seems unfounded and severely oversimplified. I await a more thorough debunking attempt with bated breath..

Were the kings way better defensively than i saw lastt year???? Feels like that often discussing Mo around here. Idk it just seems like flawed logic to me and then its excacerbated even further because you want Doncic, the worst defender of the posible choices, so he can guard the like of Kevin Durant and Kahwi Leonard, Paul George, Brandon Ingram...
 
Yep.

Nbadraft.net currently has Shareef Abdur-Rahim as the comp for Jaren Jackson which makes zero sense.

In the past they've also compared Westbrook to Rondo and Mudiay to John Wall.

Comparisons are an easy way to describe a player but they vary wildly depending on who makes them and they are more often than not totally wrong.

I could call Doncic a Peja/JWill hybrid and it would probably make him more enticing but it's no more accurate than a better passing Hayward, or a bigger slower James Harden, or a Rubio/Mike Miller combo, Ben Simmons, Toni Kukoc, Hedo, Drazen Petrovic or any of the other comparisons I've seen for Doncic.
I think a good comparison for Doncic is a Bigger and Better shooting Lonzo Ball and with the same court vision and average athleticism.

Wait, I just described Larry Bird! ;)
 
Doncic is my pick @2.

He's a once in a generational basketball talent who fits todays NBA as well. Most of the game is won in the half court and end of quarters, and especially in the 4th quarter where defense tightens up and you need playmakers to win. Not to mention the intangibles it takes to make game changing plays when it counts.

There are just too many situational substitutions and strategies where big men need to be removed from a lineup. Don't get me wrong, if Doncic wasn't in this draft I'd be pretty thrilled with Bagley, Bamba or JJJ as a #2 pick. I'm holding my tongue on Ayton at this point but I have my doubts about him which most likely he'll make me look foolish, but I don't think the Kings will have to worry about him at #2 anyway.

Luka just has too many positives in his game to pass on. IQ, ball handling, passing, slashing, instincts and a signs of being an alpha, and I think he'll eventually be a pretty good shooter like a Kukoc, but not on Drazen's level, of course.

With Doncic the Kings will definitely need to figure out how to acquire some situational PF/Cs around him that can either stretch the floor or be defensive specialist. A few more athletes in the lineup as well - don't really like Doncic paired with Buddy.

But Doncic, yeah.
 
A few more athletes in the lineup as well - don't really like Doncic paired with Buddy.
Why not?

I think Buddy would be the perfect shooting guard for Doncic. With Doncic and Fox handling the ball, there is not as much need for a ball handling Shooting Guard.

What you need with passers like Doncic and Fox are exceptionally accurate shooters to knock down the open 3s.

I think Buddy would be elite at hitting 3s with Doncic and Fox getting him open looks.
 
I think a good comparison for Doncic is a Bigger and Better shooting Lonzo Ball and with the same court vision and average athleticism.

Wait, I just described Larry Bird! ;)
Lonzo's game is predicated on his athleticism though look at his blocks and steals and rebounds. lonzo's stats actually line up next to Draymonds....
 
Why not?

I think Buddy would be the perfect shooting guard for Doncic. With Doncic and Fox handling the ball, there is not as much need for a ball handling Shooting Guard.

What you need with passers like Doncic and Fox are exceptionally accurate shooters to knock down the open 3s.

I think Buddy would be elite at hitting 3s with Doncic and Fox getting him open looks.
Buddy locking down Klay, Doncic locking down KD, It's perfect! can just see it now------ Your 2019 NBA Champs The Sacramento Kings!!! **crowd goes wild** **confetti everywhere**
 
Why not?

I think Buddy would be the perfect shooting guard for Doncic. With Doncic and Fox handling the ball, there is not as much need for a ball handling Shooting Guard.

What you need with passers like Doncic and Fox are exceptionally accurate shooters to knock down the open 3s.

I think Buddy would be elite at hitting 3s with Doncic and Fox getting him open looks.
Can we please stop completely ignoring defense???
 
Buddy locking down Klay, Doncic locking down KD, It's perfect! can just see it now------ Your 2019 NBA Champs The Sacramento Kings!!! **crowd goes wild** **confetti everywhere**
Come on, there is not one team that can lock down KD and Klay.

Can we please stop completely ignoring defense???
Buddy has improved as a defender and he puts forth the effort on defense. In a good defensive team defense, Buddy can be adequate.

We don't know what type of defender Doncic will be. He has the same intangibles as Bogdan, but is bigger and built like a tank. Bogdan proved to be a pretty good defender. There is no reason why Doncic doesn't become a similar defender to Bogdan.
 
Can we please stop completely ignoring defense???
I know this is a west coast based forum, and the west coast is more associated with this run and gun style. all these blanket statements being made about today's nba fail to recognize the top teams in todays nba play both offense and defense well. Trying to simply outgun the rockets or warriors is a childish video game style tactic.
 
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Can we please stop completely ignoring defense???
And can we not ignore the strides Buddy in particular made on that end. Everyone talks about how small Buddy is when I watched him check bigger 3's and have little issue late in the year. He just about locked down Josh Jackson when he tried to bully Buddy. Buddy is built strong and has good length for a SG. Fox should be a ball hawk defensively, and I think Doncic will be alright on that end. It might take some adjustment stylistically from Joerger but all the stats suggest he needs to adjust in almost every respect anyhow.
 
Come on, there is not one team that can lock down KD and Klay.



Buddy has improved as a defender and he puts forth the effort on defense. In a good defensive team defense, Buddy can be adequate.

We don't know what type of defender Doncic will be. He has the same intangibles as Bogdan, but is bigger and built like a tank. Bogdan proved to be a pretty good defender. There is no reason why Doncic doesn't become a similar defender to Bogdan.
You still gotta make it as difficult for em as possible..... We do know what thype of defender Doncic will be, one limited by footspeed, he cant deter the elite SF's, even Brandon Ingram is gonna give him fits. He'll guard ultra bursty athletes like wiggins and josh jackson. The kings cant hide him, were gonna find out quickly if he can defend if he's the pick, there will be a long line of vets waiting to teste his mettle'
 
Just for the record I dont think Doncic is the best 'amateur' wing prospect on the planet, their a few years younger but i prefer Jalen Green (Cali kid), Emoni Bates and Terrence Clarke. All 3 of those players could go #1 in their respective drafts.
 
You still gotta make it as difficult for em as possible..... We do know what thype of defender Doncic will be, one limited by footspeed, he cant deter the elite SF's, even Brandon Ingram is gonna give him fits. He'll guard ultra bursty athletes like wiggins and josh jackson. The kings cant hide him, were gonna find out quickly if he can defend if he's the pick, there will be a long line of vets waiting to teste his mettle'
If a Small Forward like Gordon Hayward, which Doncic is compared to most often, can play good defense in the NBA, then there is no reason why Doncic can't develop into a good defender too.

To just come out and say that Doncic can't play defense is just not true. Let the guy play in the NBA, in an NBA defense with NBA coaches and see how he does.

If he is willing to work hard on defense, which I think he will be, I can see him being a average defender at the very least.
 
Buddy locking down Klay, Doncic locking down KD, It's perfect! can just see it now------ Your 2019 NBA Champs The Sacramento Kings!!! **crowd goes wild** **confetti everywhere**
So, if I understood what you are saying, we shouldn’t draft Doncic because with him we won’t beat the Warriors next year and we won’t be able to guard Curry, KD and Thompson... ok.

I’m pretty sure with Bamba and JJJ we will have a real shot at beating the W’s...

You don’t like Doncic, ok I get it. But please, not being able to beat the best team in the NBA is not really a great reason not to draft him. You are talking like we need to compete against the W’s next year. It’s not going to happen, believe me.
 
If a Small Forward like Gordon Hayward, which Doncic is compared to most often, can play good defense in the NBA, then there is no reason why Doncic can't develop into a good defender too.

To just come out and say that Doncic can't play defense is just not true. Let the guy play in the NBA, in an NBA defense with NBA coaches and see how he does.

If he is willing to work hard on defense, which I think he will be, I can see him being a average defender at the very least.
I watch the Hayward Jazz teams closely and concluded Doncic has no chance at being the defender hayward was. Hayward has more spring in his step. He gets these sort of chasedown blocks regularly. Hayward had a game last szn vs paul george where he dropped near 40 and held george to under 20, i dont think Luka is that kind of player
 
Just for the record I dont think Doncic is the best 'amateur' wing prospect on the planet, their a few years younger but i prefer Jalen Green (Cali kid), Emoni Bates and Terrence Clarke. All 3 of those players could go #1 in their respective drafts.
Ok. But call me when these kids will be European champions, Euroleague Champions, ACB champions, Euroleague MVP and best player on the top European team before they turn 20.

I don’t even get what you mean with “amateur wing”. He’s a pro. He plays with pros.
 
Totally agree.

I would much rather have the guy with the skillset to put the ball in the basket (or help others put the ball in the basket) than the guy who can jump out of the gym. Last I checked, you don't get points for jumping over the gym! ;)
I agree. The problem is Doncic’s main skill is passing to other players who put the ball in the basket. Now given we were second to last in 3 point attempts you can say we need that skill but then it’s also an indictment of Fox.
 
So, if I understood what you are saying, we shouldn’t draft Doncic because with him we won’t beat the Warriors next year and we won’t be able to guard Curry, KD and Thompson... ok.

I’m pretty sure with Bamba and JJJ we will have a real shot at beating the W’s...

You don’t like Doncic, ok I get it. But please, not being able to beat the best team in the NBA is not really a great reason not to draft him. You are talking like we need to compete against the W’s next year. It’s not going to happen, believe me.
With Bamba u acquire a matchup issue for the warriors at BY-FAR their weaklest position.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Bamba's a much more scarce commodity, theres tons of good two way wings who can pass on the way in the coming years, not athletic shotblocking 7footers with shooting touch and a genius iq.

Its major weaksauce how commonly posters here just assume the fetal position at the mere mention of the warriors or rockets. Those teams arent getting old or losing their core anytime soon. Like it or not this is the nature of the beast out west, the threat level is at an all time high, extreme measures must be taken to get a leg up.
 
Ok. But call me when these kids will be European champions, Euroleague Champions, ACB champions, Euroleague MVP and best player on the top European team before they turn 20.

I don’t even get what you mean with “amateur wing”. He’s a pro. He plays with pros.
I hate to say it but awards at one level are marginal at best in predicting success at the next level. Often the kid who dominates due to IQ at one level gets in trouble when he doesn’t have the physical tools at the next level. I see it in the transition from college Water Polo to international Water Polo all the time.
 
I just can't wrap my head around anybody who thinks we should go with Bamba over Doncic. I think it would be a massive mistake to draft a HUGE project like Bamba over someone who just had a historical year in one of the most competitive leagues in the world.

IMO, drafting for defense and HOPING someone will develop offensively with such a high draft pick is a horrible idea. Ending up with a Hasheem Thabeet or a MKG type player with pick #2 and no draft pick next year would potentially kill our whole rebuild.

If Bamba is the guy, then trade back. I don't think he should even be in the conversation at #2. We botch this pick with a bust, then this team is never getting back to the playoffs.
I doubt we are trading back as long as Brandon curtails Vlade's destructive impulses. In Brandon Vlade I trust. You are going to be averse to Bamba like others if you dismiss him as a "huge project" and the next Thabeet. These labels are shortcuts in quest for certainty in an uncertain process. It is best to see the imperfect nature of labeling in lieu of a more deep dive in search for clarity absence of labels.

Where and how I get on and off the bandwagon with players and has served me well over the years, including when I jumped off the Jason Thompson bandwagon while 95% of the fan base had him pegged as the "ideal third big" instead of identifying him as the scrub he was and turned out to be (I say with no malicious intent, just calling like it is) is a simple study of reaction time for lack of a better term.

Reaction time encompasses agility, hand-eye coordination, body balance, fluidity and concise footwork. Reaction time is more or less a subset of functional athleticism and strength. Superior reaction time means you are often first to the ball. You are more anticipatory than your opponent. You may see plays before they develop and react accordingly. All great players have great reaction. Players who bust out like Thabeet or underachieve like Ben have poor to average reaction time even when there is some foundational basketball and athletic skill.

Reaction time interestingly correlates to intelligence. Bagley and Bamba entertained going to Harvard.... I rest my case :p As an aside there's this video dance game where you have to move your feet really fast. The best gamers have the best reaction time. Asians who happen to have high relative IQ (generally speaking) dominate this game at the highest levels.

So we want a player who checks the boxes with physical profile, well-spoken off the floor (high IQ) and displays superior reaction time. If reaction time is too abstract, look for players who are fluid, well-coordinated, who defy their height relative position, that is, if they are a center they play like a wing, and if they are a wing they play like a guard. This perspective will serve you well to project future stardom! There I just spilled all my secrets. :p

Now back to Bamba. To emphasize the significance of reaction time I call your attention to two beautiful plays in this clip. Watch how he destroys this guard on one play and Sexton on another:



0:42: Here the kid gets down in his defensive crouch at the three point line. He shades him to drive left. The player steps back. Bamba recovers just enough to prevent the shot. At this point the player is in Bamba's Torture Chamber :p He cannot get the shot off and passing angles have been taken away. He drives into Bamba's body. Bamba stays vertical the whole time and destroys the shot with his off hand. That is a spectacular play by Mo! (Willie wishes he could do this, and never have once in three season with the Kings).

2:25: This play is equally spectacular. Here Sexton turns the corner and Bamba goes to meet him. His man tries to interfere and actually steps in between Bamba and Sexton. 9 times out of 10 this takes the rim protector OUT of the play. Does Bamba get taken out of the play? Nope! He erases the shot with his left hand! This the type of deep dive I am referring to that is rooted in reaction time. This is how you discern between busts and booms, Thabeets versus Embiids.

These plays do NOT imply project. They imply put-me-in-coach. I will be very excited if we draft Bamba or Bagley. I will be slightly disappointed if we draft Luka but he's a kid I can root for. If we draft Porter Jr I will pull a "Bricklayer" on this site and team.
 
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funkykingston

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With Bamba u acquire a matchup issue for the warriors at BY-FAR their weaklest position
How is Bamba a matchup issue for the Warriors? He struggled to get and maintain post position on offense against college kids, I don't see how he'll do it against Draymond. Or even McGee or Pachulia for that matter.

And defensively he can protect the basket until they go to their late game lineup and have Draymond at the 5 pulling him away from the basket.

A dominant offensive center could be a tough matchup for the Warriors. We saw that with AD a bit. A healthy Cousins would have helped a lot because they would have struggled to guard either one inside, let alone both. Ayton has that kind of potential as an offensive force. So does Embiid. But a defensive center that can't really punish them on the offensive end? You guard him with a smaller defender and stretch the floor on the other end to pull him out of the lane.
 
Ok. But call me when these kids will be European champions, Euroleague Champions, ACB champions, Euroleague MVP and best player on the top European team before they turn 20.

I don’t even get what you mean with “amateur wing”. He’s a pro. He plays with pros.
This is an amateur draft. A vast majority of the greatest basketball players ever came from American HS's, were gonnha hold these kids who grew up in a country that doesnt sign 12 year old kids to pro contracts feet to the fire over it?

And then sit here and entertain a conversation about it,like its not completely intellectually bankrupt?

If doncic was as good as so many say, the suns would take him 1st, but they wont and he isnt.
 
How is Bamba a matchup issue for the Warriors? He struggled to get and maintain post position on offense against college kids, I don't see how he'll do it against Draymond. Or even McGee or Pachulia for that matter.

And defensively he can protect the basket until they go to their late game lineup and have Draymond at the 5 pulling him away from the basket.

A dominant offensive center could be a tough matchup for the Warriors. We saw that with AD a bit. A healthy Cousins would have helped a lot because they would have struggled to guard either one inside, let alone both. Ayton has that kind of potential as an offensive force. So does Embiid. But a defensive center that can't really punish them on the offensive end? You guard him with a smaller defender and stretch the floor on the other end to pull him out of the lane.
6'7 draymond green is gonna keep mo off the boards? Thats hilarious. If youre serious you should get your eyes checked. Mo will cause them issues like gobert does, rudys not a dominant offensive center but he's an efficient offensive player who people typecast in the way you do mo.**yawns** i've seen this movie before.

At the end of last year hayward was out and rudy led a trouncing against the warriors, they hate playing the jazz and rudy and always give em lots of credit postgame. Tell us thho how a dominant C is more of a matchup issue? Beat them trading 2's for 3's?
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
With Bamba u acquire a matchup issue for the warriors at BY-FAR their weaklest position.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Bamba's a much more scarce commodity, theres tons of good two way wings who can pass on the way in the coming years, not athletic shotblocking 7footers with shooting touch and a genius iq.

Its major weaksauce how commonly posters here just assume the fetal position at the mere mention of the warriors or rockets. Those teams arent getting old or losing their core anytime soon. Like it or not this is the nature of the beast out west, the threat level is at an all time high, extreme measures must be taken to get a leg up.
Oh please. We are not going to - nor should we - build a team with the sole idea of beating the Warriors. Like it or not, most of us AREN'T the myopic ignorant fans you seem to feel we are.

I get it. You're sold on Bamba. That's cool and you might end up being right. You also might end up being wrong. Nobody knows at this point.
 
Its just bgeyond absurd the standards people have here for mo. It's like you fault him for not having proper competition to go up against or for being not fully developed at 20........ Name me anyone who was that size and age and had great ability to hold post position..... I'll wait..... Not Kareem, the nba's all time leading scorer didnt measure very well in this regard, all the teams knew to play him physical, he turned out ok.

99% of the competition mo's been up against he can just jump over and snatch the ball, thats how it'll look if thyey put draymond on him and mo is such a freak he'll be able to make it look ez vs NBA athletes too.
 
Its just bgeyond absurd the standards people have here for mo. It's like you fault him for not having proper competition to go up against or for being not fully developed at 20........ Name me anyone who was that size and age and had great ability to hold post position..... I'll wait..... Not Kareem, the nba's all time leading scorer didnt measure very well in this regard, all the teams knew to play him physical, he turned out ok.

99% of the competition mo's been up against he can just jump over and snatch the ball, thats how it'll look if thyey put draymond on him and mo is such a freak he'll be able to make it look ez vs NBA athletes too.
All Kareem did his freshman year of college was average 33 pts on 68% shooting and grab 21.5 rbs in 21 games. And he was 18 at the time.
 
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