Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)
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Yeah, honestly I don't think that affected him at all. It wasn't like Linsanity where the media was building him up to be a figure he couldn't live up to. The Sauce Castillo thing was just a fun bit of fluff that no one took seriously. Really I think Nik just didn't adjust to the higher level of competition in the NBA and recalibrate what his role should be though he may be starting to get there now. If anything I think Cousins berating him hurt his confidence more than anything else that first season.
As for Doncic, part of it is that he has to pay for the sins of failed international players over the years. Darko, Bargnani, Hezonja, Vesely etc. I mean, it's not like people are saying that Ayton shouldn't go #1 because Kwame Brown or Anthony Bennett were busts but it's the same logic. We heard the same things last draft with Markkanen (who even played a year of NCAA ball so there was a more level field to evaluate him on), that he was going to be limited in the NBA etc and he was at worst the 5th best rookie last season over guys like Fox, and Isaac who had elite tools. Markannen won't be the best player on a contending team. But he's a great piece to have. That's how I'm viewing Doncic with the thought that that's his floor and there's potential for him to be more, though I have no idea how much more.
I don't know how good Doncic can be in the NBA. I am almost afraid to see the Kings take him because I think it's likely that he's a high level role player while a couple guys after him will be stars. But I'm also afraid to see the Kings not take him because it's almost a certainty that guys taken just after him will be total busts. If Doncic is some sort of Hayward/Hedo/bigger, slower Harden hybrid then I can live with that but it likely means taking a bit of a safer path.
As for Doncic, part of it is that he has to pay for the sins of failed international players over the years. Darko, Bargnani, Hezonja, Vesely etc. I mean, it's not like people are saying that Ayton shouldn't go #1 because Kwame Brown or Anthony Bennett were busts but it's the same logic. We heard the same things last draft with Markkanen (who even played a year of NCAA ball so there was a more level field to evaluate him on), that he was going to be limited in the NBA etc and he was at worst the 5th best rookie last season over guys like Fox, and Isaac who had elite tools. Markannen won't be the best player on a contending team. But he's a great piece to have. That's how I'm viewing Doncic with the thought that that's his floor and there's potential for him to be more, though I have no idea how much more.
I don't know how good Doncic can be in the NBA. I am almost afraid to see the Kings take him because I think it's likely that he's a high level role player while a couple guys after him will be stars. But I'm also afraid to see the Kings not take him because it's almost a certainty that guys taken just after him will be total busts. If Doncic is some sort of Hayward/Hedo/bigger, slower Harden hybrid then I can live with that but it likely means taking a bit of a safer path.
It comes down to what your definition of athletic is. Do you have to jump high and run fast? I don't think of Curry and Irving as being athletic in those terms but their handles and moves off the dribble are so good that they are technically in the top 1 percentile of "athleticism" when it comes to doing what they want on offense. Their athleticism is used to scoot around the floor, not to play above the rim.
A guy like WCS's athleticism isn't seen nearly as much. It's mainly used when he goes up for lobs but he doesn't use it for rebounding or shot blocking all that often. He has really good lateral quickness but he rarely uses it because he hardly ever plays up close to smaller players on the outside. Skal has some similar problems with the use of his athleticism.
On the other end of the spectrum, JaKarr Sampson is as athletic as it gets for someone his size but his athleticism is almost wasted in a sense since he can't couple it with the necessary basketball skills to make them useful. He does a lot of running and jumping around and it looks impressive when he gets a block or a nice rebound but most of it is just wasted because he isn't accomplishing much with it on a regular basis. Quincy Acy is another example of this.
A guy like WCS's athleticism isn't seen nearly as much. It's mainly used when he goes up for lobs but he doesn't use it for rebounding or shot blocking all that often. He has really good lateral quickness but he rarely uses it because he hardly ever plays up close to smaller players on the outside. Skal has some similar problems with the use of his athleticism.
On the other end of the spectrum, JaKarr Sampson is as athletic as it gets for someone his size but his athleticism is almost wasted in a sense since he can't couple it with the necessary basketball skills to make them useful. He does a lot of running and jumping around and it looks impressive when he gets a block or a nice rebound but most of it is just wasted because he isn't accomplishing much with it on a regular basis. Quincy Acy is another example of this.
Love has always struck me as an odd player. I consider him to be soft as hell but for a year or two he was about the best rebounder we've seen since Rodman. Usually the two don't go hand in hand.
Agreed on his defense. IMO his defense is the reason why the Cavs will lose in the finals this year. The Warriors exploit his defense almost every time down the court to the point where what he brings on the offensive end is negligible.
Agreed on his defense. IMO his defense is the reason why the Cavs will lose in the finals this year. The Warriors exploit his defense almost every time down the court to the point where what he brings on the offensive end is negligible.
It mean, it's easy to say now that these guys (Curry, Harden, Kyrie) are athletic because they're proven players that spent years in an NBA training program and have completely developed physically.
But when they were coming out and unproven like Doncic is now it's a different story. Curry, Harden, Irving, Love, Gasol, Cousins, Hayward, Klay, Draymond. All are all-star level guys who had their athletic ability questioned before they went drafted.
But when they were coming out and unproven like Doncic is now it's a different story. Curry, Harden, Irving, Love, Gasol, Cousins, Hayward, Klay, Draymond. All are all-star level guys who had their athletic ability questioned before they went drafted.
Steph Curry at Davidson:
Curry last summer:
He doesn't have the frame to carry a massive amount of muscle but Curry has made huge strength gains once he reached the NBA which has made a big difference in his effectiveness.
And really, this is something seen with almost every great NBA player. The vast majority of them get significantly and noticeably stronger a couple years into the league as they move to the next level of their development.
Doncic will never be an explosive athlete. But he can get stronger and quicker just by developing his body and it will help his game.
Curry last summer:
He doesn't have the frame to carry a massive amount of muscle but Curry has made huge strength gains once he reached the NBA which has made a big difference in his effectiveness.
And really, this is something seen with almost every great NBA player. The vast majority of them get significantly and noticeably stronger a couple years into the league as they move to the next level of their development.
Doncic will never be an explosive athlete. But he can get stronger and quicker just by developing his body and it will help his game.
I disagree on Stauskas completely. Nothing wrong with his athleticism or his handles. His BBIQ was fine as well. His problem was that he came into the league as a shooter, and so far hasn't lived up to that. If Nik has been able to shoot close to 40% from the three, there wouldn't be a problem. You can put up with mediocre defense if a player is hitting his shots. Nik wasn't!
Not sure if this has been posted already in the 32 pages of this thread, but P3 actually mentioned Doncic's standing reach in a Facebook post after he trained there in spring 2017:
If true, 8'9.5" standing reach is longer than guys like Stanley Johnson and RHJ (the first thing I found when looking for "average SF wingspan" was this 2015 draft measurement recap: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/2015-nba-draft-combine-player-measurements).
Although isn't wingspan a better metric to measure... well... wings, while standing reach is a better metric for bigs?
If true, 8'9.5" standing reach is longer than guys like Stanley Johnson and RHJ (the first thing I found when looking for "average SF wingspan" was this 2015 draft measurement recap: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/2015-nba-draft-combine-player-measurements).
Although isn't wingspan a better metric to measure... well... wings, while standing reach is a better metric for bigs?
Doncic has been rumored to have a 6'11" wingspan. My suspicion is that these sorts of measurements just are seen as being as important in Euroleague as they are to NBA evaluators since it's hard to find them for even the top players. Heights (usually metric of course) are much easier to come by.
Anyway, if Doncic has an 8'9.5" reach that would mean he measures out the same or longer than guys from recent drafts such as Jordan Bell, Justin Jackson, Semi Ojeleye, Taurean Prince, Jakob Poeltl, Skal Labissiere, Marquese Chriss, Jaylen Brown, Josh Jackson and just a bit below Jayson Tatum.
Anyway, if Doncic has an 8'9.5" reach that would mean he measures out the same or longer than guys from recent drafts such as Jordan Bell, Justin Jackson, Semi Ojeleye, Taurean Prince, Jakob Poeltl, Skal Labissiere, Marquese Chriss, Jaylen Brown, Josh Jackson and just a bit below Jayson Tatum.
Luka Latest (FULL GAME).... let the excess praise and scrutiny commence. 
I like these announcers especially when he says "BINGOOOOOOOO" Still waiting for a "WONDER BOOOOOOOOOY"
I like these announcers especially when he says "BINGOOOOOOOO" Still waiting for a "WONDER BOOOOOOOOOY"
1:17 off-ball cut, easy layup at the rim but blows it
D1:30 overcommits on help defense, allows for a wide open 3, no contest
2:14, nice little bounce pass of PnR
3:02 pullup 3, miss
3:20 PnR, double team trap, good pass (jump pass)
5:54, can't catch the ball, very messy ball handling, can't get past his man, tries to power his way, eventually gets fouled
D6:53, defensive pokeaway
6:58 transition pass to alley oop
8:13 tries to attack 1 on 1, can't get past his man, resets, passes the ball up
D9:50 over commits on D, but comes back with a great contest
D11:20 steals the ball, but horrible pass in transition (jump pass)
D11:52 gets easily beat off the dribble after misreading
D 12:00, does a great job to stay in front of body up the perimeter player
12:49, good hard layup in transition +1
13:30, PnR, jump pass to the corner again
15:27, drive kick out to open shooter
17:10 good read, stl, wrong read on 3 vs 1 transition, no bucket
17:24 Doncic clears way tries to face up, but just swings it
D 37:16 Right read, leads the player to the secondary defender PnR
37:35, catches defender off balance, little short lane to the rim
D37:56 completely gets taken out of the play due to screen
Didn't bother watching the rest of the game because it was a similar story. Bad game for him, but it happens to everyone. One thing I'll take away from this game is that he needs to cut off the jump passes. He does them way too much as you can see in the first 15minutes, 3 times. You usually don't see jump passes from 6'8 230lb wings..just in general, jump passes usually result in TOs.
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