Trade Idea: Would you?

WCS+Buddy for Cavs #7


  • Total voters
    23
#62
Willie? Who knows. But Buddy is just scratching the surface. I think he could one day be an elite shooter/scorer. I'm not making this trade.
I'm a Buddy fan too but the problem is that there's a lot of Buddy Hields in this league and many of them are a lot more athletic than him.

We ran into 3 of them in Denver with Barton, Murray and Harris and promptly got destroyed.

This team lacks strength and athleticism badly. If I knew I could get a promising big man and a promising big athletic wing in the draft, I'm going to roll the dice and take that chance. I just don't see success happening with this current group at all. Even if they project out to be pretty solid. There are just so many holes in their games that have to be fixed within a couple years.
 
#63
I'm not convinced at all that WCS and Buddy are core pieces on a perennial playoff team. This is coming from a huge Buddy supporter/defender. Kings fans like to dismiss age for whatever reason, but their ages are completely relevant in discussions. They're 4 years older than Fox who is our supposed franchise player.

If they showed more than 12pts a game, then MAYBE I would think differently.. But when 37yearold ZBo is better than them at 24, it's hard to call me impressed.
Agree.

And if we're this wishy-washy on Willie right now, why would we even risk him going to free agency? You're either...
  1. Losing him in free agency to another team = bleeding value
  2. Trading him at the deadline or in a sign and trade = likely less value coming back in a trade vs. trading him now (hence bleeding value)
  3. Signing him to a bad contract = bleeding value
  4. Signing him to a team friendly deal = maintaining value
 
#64
Buddy will be valuable off the bench I wouldn’t trade him. WCS I’d use to trade up I’d use him and our pick to get up to 3-4 and get Bagley or Porter. Phoenix and Orlando being trade partners
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#65
I'm not convinced at all that WCS and Buddy are core pieces on a perennial playoff team. This is coming from a huge Buddy supporter/defender. Kings fans like to dismiss age for whatever reason, but their ages are completely relevant in discussions. They're 4 years older than Fox who is our supposed franchise player.

If they showed more than 12pts a game, then MAYBE I would think differently.. But when 37yearold ZBo is better than them at 24, it's hard to call me impressed.
So this is what were doing? We're using Randolph as a measuring stick. It doesn't impress you that you think Randolph is a better player than Willie, even though Randolph is in his 18 season in the league. That's 18 years of experience, against Willie, who is in his 3rd year in the league. First, I would argue that Randolph isn't that much better than Willie offensively. Randolph is averaging 14.8 ppg in 25 mpg. While shooting 47.5% from the floor and taking 13.1 shoots per game. Willie is averaging 12.6 ppg in 27 mpg, while shooting 49.2% from the floor and taking 10.5 shots per game. Randolph is pulling down 6.8 rebounds against Willie's 6.9 rebounds. I think I can safely argue the Willie is a far better defender than Randolph, and he should be.

I don't give a tinkers damm about the age of a player, but I do care about years of NBA experience. The NBA is an entirely different world than college basketball, and as I have said many times, and frankly I'm getting tired of saying it, the PG and Center positions are the two hardest positions to learn in the NBA. Especially the PG position. The reason is that both those positions require more responsibility than the other three positions. For that reason, I'm willing to cut Willie more slack than I'am Buddy. However, while Buddy makes me pull my hair out at times, he has some unique talents that are hard to find, and so I'm willing to ride that horse for a while longer.

So, at this juncture, no one is asking you to be convinced of anything. I'm not convinced, but I'm still optimistic because I see progress. Players don't go from being raw players as far as NBA experience goes, to superstars overnight. Actually, most will never reach the superstar level. In the case with Willie, I think you have to ask yourself what your expectations are? If you looking for him to become something that's not realistic, then your going to be disappointed. I've never expected Willie to be a 20 and 10 guy, but I do expect him to be a 15 and 8 guy. If he can do that, and play solid defense, I'm fine with it.

Now if next season he wants to score 23 points a game and pull down 12 boards, I'm thrilled. But I would consider that a bonus. I'd like to point out though that there aren't too many centers in the league averaging that.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#66
Agree.

And if we're this wishy-washy on Willie right now, why would we even risk him going to free agency? You're either...
  1. Losing him in free agency to another team = bleeding value
  2. Trading him at the deadline or in a sign and trade = likely less value coming back in a trade vs. trading him now (hence bleeding value)
  3. Signing him to a bad contract = bleeding value
  4. Signing him to a team friendly deal = maintaining value
Fortunately we have one more year before we have to decide on Willie. What kind of contract he gets will depend greatly what kind of year he has next season. I think, depending on his season, if you can sign him to an extension that everyone is happy with, you do it. If not, you pick up his option and let him see what the traffic will bear, and then make your decision. Of course there's always the chance you could lose him for nothing that way. There's always the sign and trade deal, but generally you lose value that way.

Personally, I'm not wishy washy on Willie. I believe he's improved this season, even with the inconsistency at times. I'd try to sign him to an extension at a reasonable price. That way he wouldn't be hard to move via trade if necessary. My problem is, I'm not sure what reasonable is anymore in today's NBA.
 
#67
Fortunately we have one more year before we have to decide on Willie. What kind of contract he gets will depend greatly what kind of year he has next season. I think, depending on his season, if you can sign him to an extension that everyone is happy with, you do it. If not, you pick up his option and let him see what the traffic will bear, and then make your decision. Of course there's always the chance you could lose him for nothing that way. There's always the sign and trade deal, but generally you lose value that way.

Personally, I'm not wishy washy on Willie. I believe he's improved this season, even with the inconsistency at times. I'd try to sign him to an extension at a reasonable price. That way he wouldn't be hard to move via trade if necessary. My problem is, I'm not sure what reasonable is anymore in today's NBA.
Sure, we technically have one more year to decide on Willie, but that doesn't mean we should take it. You have to be mindful of his current value and what his value will be if you're waiting until he's on the verge of being a free agent before you decide to move him.

All I'm saying is that a team that doesn't even have any established future franchise players (unless you'd like to squint hard) should not be handing out contracts like this. We should keep flexibility and moving guys like Cauley-Stein for assets because in all honesty, we can find many, many players who make the same impact he does on the floor.

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As much length & athleticism as he has, he hasn't been using it in a way that has been helping his team win.