2018 draft fits with this team
- Thread starter sactowndog
- Start date
They have some decent role players in Brady Manek and Christian James are both Hitting over 40 percent from 3. Are they going to be drafted? Not sure. Kruger is coaching with tunnel vision. Kruger has something special in Young and he's taking advantage. This may be to the detriment of the Sooners once March Madness begins. I think it will. Sooners are amazingly 8-1 against Top 25 competition. If you follow college ball, the Sooners were not projected to do anything at all this year. That makes the Sooners and Trae Young a great story.
You can't fill need with that kind of value without factoring in position andt have two one position players at the same spot even if they can do different things and expect it to yield the results you seek, and I proved it with the two SG mess the Kings created. Stauskas or Ben were doomed from the start. They may have been anyway but they never got into a role to maximize their potential, there is no question about that. And Willie was picked for need? I can agree to an extent that the fit wasn't nearly as awkward, but Willie came within a hair of finding himself in the same position as them and at one point was close to botch level in the view of many. Willie wasn't a great fit next to Cousins and found the DMC brick wall cutting him off from the role he now has with Cuz out of the way. How much value do you think the Kings would have gotten out of Willie if they stayed with Cuz and decided to trade WCS instead? I seem to recall some people thinking bag of chip range would do.
And you're speaking hypotheticals multiple years apart who are not drafted consecutively like a back to back PG draft would be for the Kings, and cherry picking specific players that worked out to their max potential. I can tell you this, IMO, Lillard and Curry would never be as effective together as they are in the same basic role on different teams. Any way you shape it that would mean less value in the end.
And you're speaking hypotheticals multiple years apart who are not drafted consecutively like a back to back PG draft would be for the Kings, and cherry picking specific players that worked out to their max potential. I can tell you this, IMO, Lillard and Curry would never be as effective together as they are in the same basic role on different teams. Any way you shape it that would mean less value in the end.
6'2 is fine for PG.. I am not a huge Fox fan, so I might be looking to quit on him more so than others here. If Young is out there though then we NEED to take him. Bring Fox off the bench until he get's mad and demands a trade or he accepts a backup role. Young = Curry type of skills. You don't pass on that, and I am surprised he's not #1 on most draft boards. Just re-watched his game against TCU... He was the reason they won 90-89. He had 22 friggin assists. He shot 6-14 from downtown as well. His inside game needs work, but dang.. His 3 pt shot is spot on and is good for NBA range (based on where he takes a lot of his shots from [from what I have seen of him]). If he's not #1 on our list then we're pretty dumb.
Not just saying he's Curry based on other people's comparisons.. Or maybe I am? Anyway, that's who he plays like to me.
Not just saying he's Curry based on other people's comparisons.. Or maybe I am? Anyway, that's who he plays like to me.
I'll believe it when I see it. Also, he's got a very small wingspan. Once again, if Young is can't miss, cool, move on from Fox ASAP. They could potentially work to some extent due to Fox's size but it's basically like Monta and Curry, it had to be busted up.
And he's not a universal number 1 because of many of the things mentioned previously. The fact that his usg % is that high and takes the kind of shots he does isn't going to help him with scouts. He should go in the top 10 for sure, and could end up the most productive, but I still go back to history, what small-ish PG who isn't all NBA level defensively went anywhere without being on a completely unique team built for them?
I don't dislike Young, he's not my favorite kind of player for exactly what I said above, but he stood out even when playing against his class mates prior to college. If they drafted him, they need to create a hole to fit him.
If Fox & Giles end up becoming stars and we take Porter Jr in the upcoming draft and he also ends up becoming a star, we'd have a pretty well balanced roster/rotation:
PG - Fox (34 min) / Mason (14 min)
SG - Bogdanovic (20 min) / Hield (28 min)
SF - Porter (28 min) / Bogdanovic (10 min) / Jackson (10 min)
PF - Giles (14 min) / Labissiere (28 min) / Porter (6 min)
C - Cauley-Stein (28 min) / Giles (20 min)
Fox - 34 min
Porter - 34 min
Giles - 34 min
Bogdanovic - 30 min
Hield - 28 min
Labissiere - 28 min
Cauley-Stein - 28 min
Mason - 14 min
Jackson - 10 min
That's obviously if we hit the jackpot and luck into those three guys panning out as stars, but one can dream, right?
PG - Fox (34 min) / Mason (14 min)
SG - Bogdanovic (20 min) / Hield (28 min)
SF - Porter (28 min) / Bogdanovic (10 min) / Jackson (10 min)
PF - Giles (14 min) / Labissiere (28 min) / Porter (6 min)
C - Cauley-Stein (28 min) / Giles (20 min)
Fox - 34 min
Porter - 34 min
Giles - 34 min
Bogdanovic - 30 min
Hield - 28 min
Labissiere - 28 min
Cauley-Stein - 28 min
Mason - 14 min
Jackson - 10 min
That's obviously if we hit the jackpot and luck into those three guys panning out as stars, but one can dream, right?
This is where people/teams are going to get in trouble with Trae Young. They're going to be afraid they're missing on the next Curry, when there frankly has never been a player like Curry in NBA history. It's just not a reasonable expectation for him or anybody really and I can already tell people are getting stars in their eyes because his college game "resembles" Steph. It might be a situation we can take advantage of honestly if someone falls in love with "The next Steph Curry" and we can gut a team who tries to trade up for him.
I just don't know where to evaluate him at this point. I worry a ton about his size/wingspan/athleticism once he gets to the next level and is facing much bigger/athletic/stronger PG talent. In the spots that Trae HAS struggled this year, it's almost always been teams that have been physical with him or forced him to get away from his shot and drive to the rim. But on the other hand, he's such a talented passer, he'll immediately be one of the best shooters in the NBA when he walks in and he's absolutely decimating everyone he faces at 19 years old. Usually, it's Senior guards that have had 4 years in college that dominate like he's been doing from the jump.
He's incredibly talented, but you have to be worried about the physical measurable if he could do this in the NBA. Especially at the PG position, which is where athleticism comes into play the most out of any position.
I mentioned in another post, but I'm just moving further and further away from drafting big men high in the draft (unless they are absolute studs/freaks) as teams with big men as their stars or go-to players don't tend to be top end teams in this league. I'd rather invest high, valuable picks on perimeter players and find roleplayers as my big men later in the draft or through free agency.
With that in mind, I'm not too big on drafting Ayton or Bagley with our pick this year. And that's without considering the fact that we already have Giles, Cauley-Stein, Labissiere, & Papagiannis on our roster. If Ayton was a stud on the defensive side of the ball, I would probably think twice about passing on him but the questions on that side of the ball deter me.
I like Young a lot but drafting him immediately puts us in a disadvantage when it comes time to having to deal either him or Fox because they will not be able to play together long term.
That leaves me with Doncic or Porter as who I would like to come away with in the upcoming draft. I know you have voiced concerns about having too many ballhandlers if we were to draft Doncic, but I don't agree with that stance. Doncic & Bogdanovic are very high IQ players who are unselfish. Fox seems to be like a team player too who has gotten praise from the coaches on his basketball IQ. I think having a bunch of players who will play for each other, make the correct read, & take advantage of favorable pick & roll matchups can only help us.
For example, if we're playing the Spurs, they could have Leonard guarding Doncic (not the most favorable matchup in the PnR), Green guarding Bogdan (not the most favorable matchup in the PnR), and Parker guarding Fox (probably a good matchup in the PnR). In that example, you can help make good defenders more obsolete and attack a team's weaker defenders. However, if you have a Patrick Beverley at PG, you're forced to try and beat Leonard or Green.
Porter's size, length, and athleticism are very appealing and we still don't have any prospect that projects as a 3/4 or that has great size as a SF. Porter immediately fixes that issue. Not to mention he can shoot the lights out & score at a high rate. Hield, Bogdanovic, & Porter could all be 40%+ 3PT shooters in this league. That's going to create a lot of space on the offensive end. Not to mention he's projected as a great rebounder. Looking at Labissiere & Cauley-Stein, that's something we desperately need from our SF.
With that in mind, I'm not too big on drafting Ayton or Bagley with our pick this year. And that's without considering the fact that we already have Giles, Cauley-Stein, Labissiere, & Papagiannis on our roster. If Ayton was a stud on the defensive side of the ball, I would probably think twice about passing on him but the questions on that side of the ball deter me.
I like Young a lot but drafting him immediately puts us in a disadvantage when it comes time to having to deal either him or Fox because they will not be able to play together long term.
That leaves me with Doncic or Porter as who I would like to come away with in the upcoming draft. I know you have voiced concerns about having too many ballhandlers if we were to draft Doncic, but I don't agree with that stance. Doncic & Bogdanovic are very high IQ players who are unselfish. Fox seems to be like a team player too who has gotten praise from the coaches on his basketball IQ. I think having a bunch of players who will play for each other, make the correct read, & take advantage of favorable pick & roll matchups can only help us.
For example, if we're playing the Spurs, they could have Leonard guarding Doncic (not the most favorable matchup in the PnR), Green guarding Bogdan (not the most favorable matchup in the PnR), and Parker guarding Fox (probably a good matchup in the PnR). In that example, you can help make good defenders more obsolete and attack a team's weaker defenders. However, if you have a Patrick Beverley at PG, you're forced to try and beat Leonard or Green.
Porter's size, length, and athleticism are very appealing and we still don't have any prospect that projects as a 3/4 or that has great size as a SF. Porter immediately fixes that issue. Not to mention he can shoot the lights out & score at a high rate. Hield, Bogdanovic, & Porter could all be 40%+ 3PT shooters in this league. That's going to create a lot of space on the offensive end. Not to mention he's projected as a great rebounder. Looking at Labissiere & Cauley-Stein, that's something we desperately need from our SF.
We need 2 top picks this draft.
This is the draft - real game changing.
2 of Ayton, Bagley, Porter, Doncic, Young have us set as a franchise. With Giles coming along well in rehab
We have enough pieces that we need to decide which two we want and go from there.
We absolutely need to ensure one of our own picks is top 3 and we need to acquire another one by leveraging what assets we have.
No more floundering around. Hit he reset button properly and go from there.
This is the draft - real game changing.
2 of Ayton, Bagley, Porter, Doncic, Young have us set as a franchise. With Giles coming along well in rehab
We have enough pieces that we need to decide which two we want and go from there.
We absolutely need to ensure one of our own picks is top 3 and we need to acquire another one by leveraging what assets we have.
No more floundering around. Hit he reset button properly and go from there.
Last edited:
Giles is the wild card if he’s 90% as advertised we are golden say like 12-8-2 with good defense. Than drafting in the top 5 gives us Ayton, Porter, Doncic, it Bagley all whole are scorers which is huge. Bogdan and Fox would be good number 2 and 3 options do getting a Doncic, Porter, or Ayton would be huge
I think Ayton will be a special talent. I think he's going to come into the NBA day 1 and put up 15+pts a night.
In regards to Doncic vs. Porter Jr, that's hard for me to pick, but both players offer something different. I think that Doncic can be the best player on your team, but he's not a #1 scorer. Think of CP3. There is no doubt that Doncic is at his best when the ball is in his hand. However, if you make him split up ball handling duties with Fox, what type of production will you be gettting out of Doncic? Others see it differently, but I think Doncic is a NBA PG. The ball needs to be in his hands. Why is he rated the #1 prospect by a lot of people? It isn't because he's an off-ball SF.
I'm not going to draft Doncic and force him to play off-ball. That makes literally 0 sense to me to me. You want an off-ball SF? Draft Bridges, or Knox. Luka isn't that player. Now, if Doncic becomes the primary ball handler, how will that affect Fox's development?
Porter Jr would be an ideal fit. Not only BPA, but he can fit in any offense the Kings want.
In regards to Doncic vs. Porter Jr, that's hard for me to pick, but both players offer something different. I think that Doncic can be the best player on your team, but he's not a #1 scorer. Think of CP3. There is no doubt that Doncic is at his best when the ball is in his hand. However, if you make him split up ball handling duties with Fox, what type of production will you be gettting out of Doncic? Others see it differently, but I think Doncic is a NBA PG. The ball needs to be in his hands. Why is he rated the #1 prospect by a lot of people? It isn't because he's an off-ball SF.
I'm not going to draft Doncic and force him to play off-ball. That makes literally 0 sense to me to me. You want an off-ball SF? Draft Bridges, or Knox. Luka isn't that player. Now, if Doncic becomes the primary ball handler, how will that affect Fox's development?
Porter Jr would be an ideal fit. Not only BPA, but he can fit in any offense the Kings want.
Remember though that CP3 and The Beard have managed to coexist this season in Houston to mutual benefit and that team looks like a legit threat to Golden State this year. Both guys are averaging 9 assists per game and shooting almost 40% behind the arc. There's no question to me they've surpassed Curry and Thompson as the best backcourt in the league. The advantage to having two primary ball-handlers is that you can stagger your substitutions so that you always have at least one of them on the court for the full 48. That's a huge advantage! Clint Capela is talented but not overwhelmingly so. I could see one of the bigs we already have -- Cauley-Stein, Skal, or Giles -- eventually reaching his level. Everyone else on that team is a spot-up shooter or an enforcer with the possible exception of Eric Gordon who's got some combo guard skills.
So no, I don't see a problem having Fox and Doncic in the same lineup even though I agree with you that both are PGs in the NBA. That Houston roster may be an easier blueprint for us to follow than the Golden State model. Doncic and Fox would be the tag-team starting PG duo and then you'd need to add a 3-and-D wing and a stretch 4. Buddy Hield already has potential as a sixth man shooting specialist off the bench (the EG role) and Skal may eventually grow into that stretch 4 (Ryan Anderson) role. I agree that Porter is an easier fit because he fills a position that nobody else can on our team right now and he's a lights out shooter who can slide down to the 4 and allow you to fit another shooter into your lineup on the wing. But Doncic is so talented as a ballhandler and playmaker that I wouldn't rule him out either. We're going to need Fox to develop a decent three point jumper regardless and I expect he will. A lot of solid shooters have struggled with their shot as rookies (CP3 for example).
I also like the idea of keeping Bogie out there and making it a 3 PG attack. Fox/Bogdanovic/Doncic becomes your three-headed hydra of playmaking skills. That's a lot of basketball IQ on the floor at one time! If all three guys can get up to the 37-40% range on their threes eventually (Bogie is there already, Doncic projects well as a shooter, Fox is improving) how are teams going to defend that? It would certainly be a unique look on offense that nobody else is trying right now. On defense they just need to be good enough.
So no, I don't see a problem having Fox and Doncic in the same lineup even though I agree with you that both are PGs in the NBA. That Houston roster may be an easier blueprint for us to follow than the Golden State model. Doncic and Fox would be the tag-team starting PG duo and then you'd need to add a 3-and-D wing and a stretch 4. Buddy Hield already has potential as a sixth man shooting specialist off the bench (the EG role) and Skal may eventually grow into that stretch 4 (Ryan Anderson) role. I agree that Porter is an easier fit because he fills a position that nobody else can on our team right now and he's a lights out shooter who can slide down to the 4 and allow you to fit another shooter into your lineup on the wing. But Doncic is so talented as a ballhandler and playmaker that I wouldn't rule him out either. We're going to need Fox to develop a decent three point jumper regardless and I expect he will. A lot of solid shooters have struggled with their shot as rookies (CP3 for example).
I also like the idea of keeping Bogie out there and making it a 3 PG attack. Fox/Bogdanovic/Doncic becomes your three-headed hydra of playmaking skills. That's a lot of basketball IQ on the floor at one time! If all three guys can get up to the 37-40% range on their threes eventually (Bogie is there already, Doncic projects well as a shooter, Fox is improving) how are teams going to defend that? It would certainly be a unique look on offense that nobody else is trying right now. On defense they just need to be good enough.
Any of these top guys we draft are hopefully going to be "ball-dominant" talents. Why wouldn't Porter be a guy who has the ball in his hands a lot? And the real appeal of drafting Luka is we'd have an absolutely stellar 4-man crew between PG-SG-SF (Fox, Bogdan/Buddy/Doncic) that I think could all play together pretty easily. That's a lot of pieces to initiate the offense and a lot of problems for defenses to worry about. And you can stagger the minutes of Fox/Luka/Bogdan pretty easily for 48 minutes where they're getting the opportunity against opposing benches to dominate.
I think you're getting too caught up in "This dude HAS to be the #1 option every night on every play." The best teams in basketball (Houston, GSW) real strength is the fact that they have multiple guys who are super-star level talents on the offense end and can initiate an offense at an elite level. Bad CP3 game? Cool, let Harden initiate. Bad Steph game? Cool, let the offense run through Dray or KD. Those teams are so hard to beat because it's hard to catch their elite offensive talents BOTH having a bad game on the same night.
To truly unlock the potential of a Fox-Luka-Bogdan-Buddy core, Fox will have to learn to hit jump shots, but that isn't anything I'm all that concerned from what he's shown on his form with the humper. This isn't a Rondo/Rubio situation where those dudes were/are just plain bad all-around with the jumper.
I think you're getting too caught up in "This dude HAS to be the #1 option every night on every play." The best teams in basketball (Houston, GSW) real strength is the fact that they have multiple guys who are super-star level talents on the offense end and can initiate an offense at an elite level. Bad CP3 game? Cool, let Harden initiate. Bad Steph game? Cool, let the offense run through Dray or KD. Those teams are so hard to beat because it's hard to catch their elite offensive talents BOTH having a bad game on the same night.
To truly unlock the potential of a Fox-Luka-Bogdan-Buddy core, Fox will have to learn to hit jump shots, but that isn't anything I'm all that concerned from what he's shown on his form with the humper. This isn't a Rondo/Rubio situation where those dudes were/are just plain bad all-around with the jumper.
Yep you hit this right on the head. The Warriors especially stagger their rotations where usually KD and Klay are on the floor to start the 2nd and 4th quarters against the other teams bench. Likewise with Chris Paul. That's such a ridiculous talent gap and team advantage for 10-12 minutes a game.
And I'll just never get to a point where I think MORE playmaking on the floor is a bad thing. Not after seeing the Heat (Wade/Bron/Bosh), GSW (Steph,Dray, then Steph, KD, Dray), and Cleveland (Bron and Kyrie) have all dominated this decade by having multiple elite offensive playmakers on the floor.
CP3 and Harden are established proven players that have teamed up. This is an entirely different case. The Kings would have to develop both Fox and Doncic at the same time. I could easily point to the Westbrook-Durant-Harden dilemma. Narrowing it down, just look at Westbrook-Harden. Harden would've never had the chance to break out into a superstar if he had stayed in OKC. The opportunity just didn't present itself because of Westbrook already as the #1 ball handler and lead guard. In this case, one of the players was clearly being held back from reaching his potential no one knew he even had.
With 2 young PGs on the team, how do you make sure both players reach their maximum potentials? You can't. Not in a 2-PG system. The closest development we've seen in a "2-PG" system is Lillard-McCollum, but McCollum is just an undersized SG..not a PG.
It's hard to find examples that work, because I don't think it really works. The only way it would ever work is if Fox improves dramatically as an off-ball player. This means he needs to become a much better 3pt shooter. This also means he'll need to know how to move around without the ball which he hasn't shown yet.
Porter Jr would have the ball in his hands, but I'm talking about solely the PG position. There's no damn way am I going to draft Doncic just to have him play backup to Fox. Nor should anyone draft Doncic to be their starting off-ball SF. He is a PG. How can he play PG when Fox is already dominating the position? People suggest they can share ball handling duties. How does this maximize the talent of either young player? I've heard some posters talk about how long it takes for PGs to get used to the NBA. Oh yeah, then why would you hamper the PGs development by making him play SG? Wouldn't you want the ball in their hands to actually play that position? I don't see that happening.
Again, the Warriors and Rockets are extremely poor examples. The Warriors only have 1 true PG and that's Curry. Draymond is like a Boris Diaw. He's not a POINT-Forward, he's just an elite passer, especially from the highpost. Durant isn't a playmaker. In terms of ball dominant players, that's only Steph and KD. But both can easily play off-ball which presents no problem. As I said above, the Harden-CP3 situation is much different than ours.
I am a huge fan of Doncic. He's my #1/2 prospect. As much as I want him on the Kings, I don't think our current roster is ideal for his development at all. Play Doncic next to a ball dominant PG that can't shoot. Solid SG who does better with the ball in his hands. Solid C that doesn't really space the floor. Not a great fit. It's really not. He'd fit a lot more on a team like Orlando.
With 2 young PGs on the team, how do you make sure both players reach their maximum potentials? You can't. Not in a 2-PG system. The closest development we've seen in a "2-PG" system is Lillard-McCollum, but McCollum is just an undersized SG..not a PG.
It's hard to find examples that work, because I don't think it really works. The only way it would ever work is if Fox improves dramatically as an off-ball player. This means he needs to become a much better 3pt shooter. This also means he'll need to know how to move around without the ball which he hasn't shown yet.
Porter Jr would have the ball in his hands, but I'm talking about solely the PG position. There's no damn way am I going to draft Doncic just to have him play backup to Fox. Nor should anyone draft Doncic to be their starting off-ball SF. He is a PG. How can he play PG when Fox is already dominating the position? People suggest they can share ball handling duties. How does this maximize the talent of either young player? I've heard some posters talk about how long it takes for PGs to get used to the NBA. Oh yeah, then why would you hamper the PGs development by making him play SG? Wouldn't you want the ball in their hands to actually play that position? I don't see that happening.
Again, the Warriors and Rockets are extremely poor examples. The Warriors only have 1 true PG and that's Curry. Draymond is like a Boris Diaw. He's not a POINT-Forward, he's just an elite passer, especially from the highpost. Durant isn't a playmaker. In terms of ball dominant players, that's only Steph and KD. But both can easily play off-ball which presents no problem. As I said above, the Harden-CP3 situation is much different than ours.
I am a huge fan of Doncic. He's my #1/2 prospect. As much as I want him on the Kings, I don't think our current roster is ideal for his development at all. Play Doncic next to a ball dominant PG that can't shoot. Solid SG who does better with the ball in his hands. Solid C that doesn't really space the floor. Not a great fit. It's really not. He'd fit a lot more on a team like Orlando.
In all honesty, I have no idea why the Sixers traded up to pick Fultz at this point. I suppose they figured that he could slide in to that off guard position after JJ Reddick leaves or whatever but Fultz's shooting stroke (even post-post-surgery controversy) looks Bo Outlaw-bad and not exactly like that of a guy you want playing off the ball for the majority of his time. (Oddly enough, Fox's shooting stroke looks like it has the potential to be the best out of that top tier of 2017 PGs of Ball/Fultz/Fox/DSJ despite it often being listed as the biggest concern about him coming out of the draft)
I'd guess the initial Sixers plan was to play Simmons as more of a point forward than as a traditional point guard like they've mostly done this season. Simmons has actually fared better on defense against guards than I thought he would (of course it helps to have Joel Embiid as your safety valve behind you) which has allowed Brett Brown to go big and play his best players together (Embiid/Saric/RCov/Reddick/Simmons) rather than go more tradition with two regular guards with Simmons slid over to a forward position for the majority of the game. Ultimately, I think Simmons winds up as a forward much as Lebron wound up moving from guard as his career progressed but for now it's working enough that the Sixers would have probably been better off staying put or trading down and getting a Josh Jackson or (if they traded down) an off guard like Donovan Mitchell instead but the Colangelos are not exactly rocket scientists and got stars in their eyes and got greedy instead.
Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles, I guess.
I'd guess the initial Sixers plan was to play Simmons as more of a point forward than as a traditional point guard like they've mostly done this season. Simmons has actually fared better on defense against guards than I thought he would (of course it helps to have Joel Embiid as your safety valve behind you) which has allowed Brett Brown to go big and play his best players together (Embiid/Saric/RCov/Reddick/Simmons) rather than go more tradition with two regular guards with Simmons slid over to a forward position for the majority of the game. Ultimately, I think Simmons winds up as a forward much as Lebron wound up moving from guard as his career progressed but for now it's working enough that the Sixers would have probably been better off staying put or trading down and getting a Josh Jackson or (if they traded down) an off guard like Donovan Mitchell instead but the Colangelos are not exactly rocket scientists and got stars in their eyes and got greedy instead.
Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles, I guess.