[Game] Kings @ Pistons - Saturday, Nov. 4 - 4 PT

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
While I usually agree with giving young players minutes to develop, I can't say that Skal deserved his minutes tonight. He was freaking awful on all cylinders. I still don't even know if he's a NBA player. He might just be a 7fter that shoots the ball.

He just constantly looks lost out their on the floor. The game is obviously too fast for him. I'm really disappointed in him. I just don't think he has the right feel for the game.
Yep. This is always the thing that bothered me when people would bring up Skal being miles ahead of Papa as a prospect. While Papa looks out of sync and still has the clumsiness of a 20-year-old still learning how to use his body, you can at least see what he was trying to do and he generally seems to understand the basic rules of the game. Skal, on the other hand, shows flashes of greatness but also has long stretches where it looks like he's never seen a basketball game before.
 
So we're blaming Vlade for not being able to see into the future?
Well as a GM predicting the future and making decisions based on those predictions is a pretty large part of the job. Wether a GM uses analytics or is an old school eye test and chemistry guy - he will always try to make decisions based on predictions of the future. So objectively speaking it's perfectly fine to criticize Vlade for making false predicitons of the future. There may be plenty of reasons, why he made certain decisions at a certain time, but it's still the outcome that matters most.

Can't blame Vlade for Hill. It looked and sounded great on paper. We all thought highly of it for the most part..
I agree that most fans on this board were happy, when we signed Hill. But Vlade is not a fan. He is supposed to know more, than the average non basketball lifer. And because it's his decisions to sign Hill, it's perfectly reasonable to criticize, when this decision proofs to be bad. Now it's still early in the season, players will go through slumps, preseason and training camp were short and Hill may have personal issues, that bother him. So obviously nobody can determine yet, if signing Hill was a mistake or not. Therefore the jury is still out on the decision to sign him, but so far it doesn't look good.

And that is hampering us how? We have absolutely nothing looming contract wise and are a non-factor getting top tier FAs. It was obviously an overpay, but we needed some bit of competence among an extremely young and raw team. Obviously Hill hasn't provided that, but he very much looked the part coming in.

The Sixers trade was abysmal, but he has done an otherwise great job of getting us in a position for the future.
Zbo and Hill both are on the roster for 2 years. That's 32 million per year tied into two vets. Wether SAC is a non factor in getting top tier FAs doesn't matter at all. As a rebuilding team it's perfectly reasonable to keep as much capspace as possible, to absorb bad contracts from teams trying to contend, as long as you get assets like picks or promising talents for it. Teams like Portland or NOLA (they have a first rounder and some young dudes like Diallo or Jackson and needed to get rid of Asik or/and Ajinca) come to mind or it's easy to point at the Carroll trade of the last offseason.
And even if SAC has no chance to sign top tier FA's, there were interesting players every year Vlade has been around, who would have made a ton of sense and who were obtainable in FA, which we passed on. Just take a look at this offseason. Jonathan Simmons obviously was available and was looking to get paid. A 6'6 prototypical wing, who is a blue collar dude like Temple and a perfect role model for any rookie. He signed for 3 and 20 with Orlando, with only 2 years guaranteed. Now do you prefer one year of Vince Carter or 2 years of Simmons?


What is the vision of this team going forward?
Right now the league is all about 3 point shooting and positionsless basketball. Until the Pelicans proof, that you can dominate teams inside the paint and win a good amount of games doing it, that won't change (and to be fair even the Pel's shoot plenty of 3's and play 4 guys outside the 3 point line most of the time).
Teams more often than not play 4 or even 5 guys, that can shoot 3's at the same time.
When I take a look at Bostons roster for example it's obvious, what Ainge and Stevens are trying to accomplish and the benefits are already for everyone to be seen, meaning having lots of mobile, interchangeable guys already pays dividents in having one of the best 3point defenses in the league and having maximum spacing allows Irving or young guys like Tatum and Brown to flourish.

When looking at the Kings roster though I simply can't figure out, what we are trying to do. Our roster has 7 spots locked into the big man position. Out of those 7 guys only 2 are able to stretch the floor out to the 3 point line and one of those two barely shoots 3's so the sample size is rather small. And to make things even worse Zbo is old, can't guard the perimeter and is not a rim protector and Skal is an aweful rebounder, making both a poor choice as lone bigs in small lineups, that provide maximum floor spacing. So what are we trying to accomplish with our roster? Because for me as simple fan, that is pretty difficult to determine. When we play two of our bigs at the same time, we either shrink the floor or we have trouble guarding the 3 point line. On the other hand we only have 2 wings big enough to play small ball PF on the roster and one guy is a rookie, while the other guy is a G-league player with a questionable jumpshot.

Teams shoot a lot of threes against us (33.1 per game/ ranked 26th leaguewide) and make a good amount of them (38.6%/ ranked 27th leaguewide).
So generally speaking in a league, that is all about 3 point shots, we don't have a roster to defend the 3 point line.

On the other hand we are last in 3 pointers attempted per game (20.9 per game even less than the Spurs), while we shoot them at average percentages.
Therefore we also haven't assembled a roster, which follows the trend of shooting 3's at volume or at least that's not what we want to do.

But if we aren't invested in 3 point defense and shooting, what's the direction of our roster building process? Do we want to play big and mold our roster after the grit&grind Grizzlies? Is that the plan?
Because honestly I can't envision guys like Willie, Skal or Papa playing like young versions of Zbo and Gasol.
Also the grit&grind clearly had it's limitations and so far it looks like a concious decision by Memphis to move on and follow a bit more contemporary attempt, built more on wings, than on 2 bigs.
If it's not grit&grind, what's the plan moving forward?

Vlade obviously has assembled a young group of guys and he deserves credit for it.
But I as a mere fan would feel a lot more optimistic, if I could spot a vision behind the roster construction.
So far it looks like a lot of ill fitting parts to me and I'm not convinced at all, that Vlade has set us up for a great future. Teams with lots of ill fitting parts usually get to a point, where they have to sell low. Most recent example are the 76ers with their clogged center spot. I'm really hoping that's not the Kings future, because unlike the 76ers we don't have that many young assets to cover the losses.
 
So we're blaming Vlade for not being able to see into the future?
Well, to me is was pretty clear the Kings were going to rebuild before February 2018 by moving Cousins. And Vlade should have “seen” that probability and factored that risk and not done the 76ers trade.

To a much lesser degree spending the 6 pick on WCS based mostly upon fit with DMC, who was probably going to move soon.

So yes seeing into the future is basically the job.

As to Hill, it’s not that bad in hindsight. Essentially everyone with cap passed on Hill at that price before Sac scooped him up. I don’t think that means the Kings shouldn’t have signed him. But I do think that impacts his trade value that is way lower than fans expect.
 
It's early in the season, but that may be the worst FA signing in Kings history. And Vlade already owns one of the worst trades in recent history in that Sixers fleecing.
I can refute both points quite nicely.

1) We have no idea what is going on with George Hill. Once the issue comes out we all may think differently. Until that time I will reserve judgement. Compared to contracts around the Association Hill's is a minor deal. Any contender that needs a PG will pick him up in a trade.

2) The Philly trade is not that bad of a deal. A first round pick went out and another came in when Marco was traded for the pick that became Malachi. Sauce, JT and Landry have done nothing to prove they will be missed in Sactown. The pick swaps really turned in to non-factors. I'm sorry but all the gnashing of teeth on this trade is not needed. Just come back here and read item 2 when you need it refuted.
 
I can refute both points quite nicely.

1) We have no idea what is going on with George Hill. Once the issue comes out we all may think differently. Until that time I will reserve judgement. Compared to contracts around the Association Hill's is a minor deal. Any contender that needs a PG will pick him up in a trade.

2) The Philly trade is not that bad of a deal. A first round pick went out and another came in when Marco was traded for the pick that became Malachi. Sauce, JT and Landry have done nothing to prove they will be missed in Sactown. The pick swaps really turned in to non-factors. I'm sorry but all the gnashing of teeth on this trade is not needed. Just come back here and read item 2 when you need it refuted.
You're forgetting about the elephant in the room. The 2019 Kings unprotected pick, which is likely to be top 5...
 
Well, to me is was pretty clear the Kings were going to rebuild before February 2018 by moving Cousins. And Vlade should have “seen” that probability and factored that risk and not done the 76ers trade.

To a much lesser degree spending the 6 pick on WCS based mostly upon fit with DMC, who was probably going to move soon.

So yes seeing into the future is basically the job.

As to Hill, it’s not that bad in hindsight. Essentially everyone with cap passed on Hill at that price before Sac scooped him up. I don’t think that means the Kings shouldn’t have signed him. But I do think that impacts his trade value that is way lower than fans expect.
Critics will always harp on the Sixers trade and they seem to be on the right side of history because DMC/Rudy/Rondo didn't work out (and Wes Matthews couldn't be had for the money). I think it is totally Monday morning QB though. It might have worked. Maybe it would have with Mike Malone but never was going to with Karl & DMC.

So they rolled the dice and lost, and the consequence is that the 2019 pick - instead of being in the 20's while DeMarcus and Rudy and Matthews and Rondo lead us to the playoffs... well it is a big whiff.. a swing and a miss.

To me that was a calculated gamble that made sense. The hopelessness of having Top Hat, Stauskas and Jason around was sooo grim. I cursed the money I spent on tickets.

But yes - people who want to chew Vlade Divac up will never let that go and so be it. He survived the dreaded pick swaps, but the 2019 is gone as a result of a gamble that didn't work. But you can't hit on every gamble.

I'm still not quite sure why that team didn't play well enough to make the playoffs... I bet DMC is still here if they did.
 
You're forgetting about the elephant in the room. The 2019 Kings unprotected pick, which is likely to be top 5...
No actually I am not forgetting the 2019 pick. I said a first round pick went out. You say "likely to be top 5" and I say that is an unknown at this point since it is a year and a half away. My point on the pick is that Marco Belinelli was signed as direct result of that trade and was then swapped for the first round pick (#22) that Vlade used to pick Malachi with.

So as I said I believe it has been overstated what a bad trade that was. Too much gnashing of teeth in my opinion. In 2016 would you rather have had the #22 pick in your hand right now or an unknown first round pick in 2019? You can say 2019 pick but are you using the info known then or what you know now?

Anyhow my point is people over rate how poor that trade was in my opinion.
 
I think some of you guys are overreacting quite a bit.

We don't even know the Hill situation. Could have had a death in the family or something. In any case, Hill was a fantastic signing by Vlade. You can't come on here in July and praise Vlade for the signing and then come on here in November and scold him for it because it hasn't worked out so far.

Hill has himself to blame but he also has Joerger to blame as well. So far, Joerger insists on doing what he wants to do, despite what strengths or weaknesses his players have. He seems to have a plan and he pencils the players in that plan whether they can do it or not. Hill is a combo guard, one of the best out there. Joerger has him playing straight PG 90% of the time. Even when Fox is out there, he has Hill handling the ball and Fox standing in the corner. Both players are being played to their weaknesses. Anyone watching could tell you that the Kings would be more effective with Fox breaking down the defense and Hill waiting in the corner to launch a 43% 3 point shot.

Couple that with the high post plays being ran most the time Hill is out there and you have no where for Hill to go because he's not getting open shots, he's just average at creating for others and usually he's being forced to create something with less than 10sec left on the shot clock. He's made some dumb turnovers that have been on him but Joerger is also doing a terrible job of handling him.

We better hope they pull their heads out of their you know whats and get Hill back to scoring 15 a night efficiently because we are going to need to flip him for a first rounder come the trade deadline.
 
No actually I am not forgetting the 2019 pick. I said a first round pick went out. You say "likely to be top 5" and I say that is an unknown at this point since it is a year and a half away. My point on the pick is that Marco Belinelli was signed as direct result of that trade and was then swapped for the first round pick (#22) that Vlade used to pick Malachi with.

So as I said I believe it has been overstated what a bad trade that was. Too much gnashing of teeth in my opinion. In 2016 would you rather have had the #22 pick in your hand right now or an unknown first round pick in 2019? You can say 2019 pick but are you using the info known then or what you know now?

Anyhow my point is people over rate how poor that trade was in my opinion.
We already know we won't be able to sign a superstar free agent. I doubt Fox will be one. Which means we only have one more chance to get 1 in the draft instead of 2 more chances. So it's a pretty big deal imo.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I feel like Bogdan doesn't trust his 3pt shot. He's an inconsistent shooter, but he's passed up a ton of open 3s.
Look, Bogdan is trying too hard to fit in. He doesn't want to come over and be perceived as the, just give me the ball and get out of my way hot shot from Europe. I happen to think he's trying a little too hard to be unselfish. But I doubt it has anything to do with confidence. Didn't your watch him on his run to the championship game in Europe? Yeah, he had a couple of off games, but he wasn't afraid to shoot the ball. In his last four yeears in Europe he averaged 38.2% from the three, and in his last year he averaged 43.0%, while taking over 4 attempts a game. If you want to hammer someone about inconsistency, then hammer Buddy, who has been struggling big time. Hopefully these last couple of games are a sign of Buddy's shot returning.

One of the bright spots on the team along with Fox and Mason has been Bog's. Not sure why your constantly being critical of him.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Bogs passed up a number of open three point FG's, Mason's shot came short at least three times. I liked that they competed, that's all we really want. Skal did absolutely nothing. He was buried behind slow-bo.
About 4 or 5 minutes before Mason came out of the game, I was yelling at my TV saying that his legs were gone, take him out for a blow. Almost everyone on that units shots were coming up short. Great sign of a players legs being gone. Mason was clearly out of gas. I blame Joerger for leaving that entire unit on the floor too long. Maybe he's trying to get them into NBA shape. Don't have a clue. Fox has to play the entire game the way he played in the second half, especially in the 4th quarter. His biggest weapon is his speed and aggressiveness. He needs to use them every minute he's on the floor. Mason gave a demonstration of how to get into the lane and reek havoc. Very impressive showing!
 
Won't be able to watch this one
We already know we won't be able to sign a superstar free agent. I doubt Fox will be one. Which means we only have one more chance to get 1 in the draft instead of 2 more chances. So it's a pretty big deal imo.
I'm not sugar coating it to be a non factor but this team is already full of young players a year or two out of college (draft picks).
We are pretty much a college team right now which is a major reason why we are getting our brakes beaten off right now.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Look, Bogdan is trying too hard to fit in. He doesn't want to come over and be perceived as the, just give me the ball and get out of my way hot shot from Europe. I happen to think he's trying a little too hard to be unselfish. But I doubt it has anything to do with confidence. Didn't your watch him on his run to the championship game in Europe? Yeah, he had a couple of off games, but he wasn't afraid to shoot the ball. In his last four yeears in Europe he averaged 38.2% from the three, and in his last year he averaged 43.0%, while taking over 4 attempts a game. If you want to hammer someone about inconsistency, then hammer Buddy, who has been struggling big time. Hopefully these last couple of games are a sign of Buddy's shot returning.

One of the bright spots on the team along with Fox and Mason has been Bog's. Not sure why your constantly being critical of him.
I think Fox may be trying a tad bit too hard to fit in also. I'm not faulting the guy; it's a good impulse to have as a point guard. But before this year end I'd like to see him push the ball more, even force it a few times, in order to utilize his speed and get shots for team mates. At this point I see a gap between what I hear from Joerger's talk about running the ball and pace and Fox's actions on the court. Maybe Fox is a little too cautious at this point.

Regarding Buddy, at least we don't have to be concerned about effort with him. Last night he led the team in rebounds with eight. The prior game he had seven. In both games he led the Kings in rebounds. I tip my hat to that kind of effort from the two-guard. If he keeps giving that kind of effort, the Buddy story is going to end nicely, imo.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I think Fox may be trying a tad bit too hard to fit in also. I'm not faulting the guy; it's a good impulse to have as a point guard. But before this year end I'd like to see him push the ball more, even force it a few times, in order to utilize his speed and get shots for team mates. At this point I see a gap between what I hear from Joerger's talk about running the ball and pace and Fox's actions on the court. Maybe Fox is a little too cautious at this point.

Regarding Buddy, at least we don't have to be concerned about effort with him. Last night he led the team in rebounds with eight. The prior game he had seven. In both games he led the Kings in rebounds. I tip my hat to that kind of effort from the two-guard. If he keeps giving that kind of effort, the Buddy story is going to end nicely, imo.
Actually, I don't have a problem with Buddy, and your right, no one can fault his desire on the court. All I was doing was pointing out Buddy as a comparison. I don't think anyone can fault Bog's effort on the court either. Both he and Buddy give 100% when on the court, they're just two different players. I think everyone needs to remember that this is a very very young team and these guys haven't played together before this season. It's going to take a while for everyone to get on the same page. Joerger has a very tough job. He's trying to get all of them minutes, while making them, to some extent, earn those minutes, while not ticking off veteran players that might think they should be on the floor.

We can say that well, that's the job he's getting paid to do, but that's not the job he originally signed up for. What he has now is a coaches nightmare. No matter what he does, he's going to catch some flack from someone. I know some are upset that Skal hasn't gotten many minutes in the last couple of games, but you know what, Skal hasn't made much of an impact in the games he's been in. He's forced things at the wrong time, and been passive at the wrong time. and to boot, he's been missing his shots. So do you keep putting him out there, or do you sit him and let him watch for a while? If you sit him, some people will be upset, and if you put him out there, and he plays poorly, some people will be upset.

Vlade and Joerger are looking down the road to the summer of the 2019-2020 season. By then they will have added one more top draftpick, and will be around 60 plus million under the cap They should know by then who the keepers are out of the current group, and what holes need filling through trades or freeagency. If they've made the right moves, then that season will be the telling point. Fox and company will have two years under their belts. There won't be any more excuses. That season will be put up or shut up time.
 
Sorry brother, no blanket statements. I, for one did not, at any point believe George Hill is worth 20 mil a year. I did not see one other team offering anywhere near that in the offseason. Not 1. There was no bidding war for Hill.
I think one thing to keep in mind is the Kings had to spend the NBA minimum. By today’s standards none of their contracts are bad. The Hill contract declines as the other contracts grow so it really isn’t a huge burden. While we may think it is a large amount for a personal trainer for Fox by the standards of NBA cap rules it isn’t bad.
 
Won't be able to watch this one

I'm not sugar coating it to be a non factor but this team is already full of young players a year or two out of college (draft picks).
We are pretty much a college team right now which is a major reason why we are getting our brakes beaten off right now.
I'm talking about needing a legit superstar to get a championship. I don't think any of our players have the potential. If Fox can shoot the 3 then he might have a chance. I suppose Skal and Bog have a slim chance as well. If we don't get one next draft, we ain't gonna beat the Warriors anytime soon.
 
We already know we won't be able to sign a superstar free agent. I doubt Fox will be one. Which means we only have one more chance to get 1 in the draft instead of 2 more chances. So it's a pretty big deal imo.
I'm talking about needing a legit superstar to get a championship. I don't think any of our players have the potential. If Fox can shoot the 3 then he might have a chance. I suppose Skal and Bog have a slim chance as well. If we don't get one next draft, we ain't gonna beat the Warriors anytime soon.
Name some legit superstars in your opinion so we know what level of player we are talking about?
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I'm talking about needing a legit superstar to get a championship. I don't think any of our players have the potential. If Fox can shoot the 3 then he might have a chance. I suppose Skal and Bog have a slim chance as well. If we don't get one next draft, we ain't gonna beat the Warriors anytime soon.
Seriously, are you really talking about the Warriors? No one is going to beat the Warriors anytime soon if they stay healthy. Beating the Warriors isn't our immediate goal. Lets start by hopefully making the playoffs in a couple of years. This rebuild isn't going to happen overnight. There aren't any shortcuts. We've what, played eight games and everyone is already complaining. I have no idea who is going to be a star out of the group we have. If I had to put money down, I'd put it on Fox. We have no idea how good Giles is going to be, and we have no idea who were going to draft at the end of the season. Steve Nash didn't become a star until his fifth year in the league, and some of you have already made up your minds after 8 games. Unbelievable!
 
I can refute both points quite nicely.

1) We have no idea what is going on with George Hill. Once the issue comes out we all may think differently. Until that time I will reserve judgement. Compared to contracts around the Association Hill's is a minor deal. Any contender that needs a PG will pick him up in a trade.

2) The Philly trade is not that bad of a deal. A first round pick went out and another came in when Marco was traded for the pick that became Malachi. Sauce, JT and Landry have done nothing to prove they will be missed in Sactown. The pick swaps really turned in to non-factors. I'm sorry but all the gnashing of teeth on this trade is not needed. Just come back here and read item 2 when you need it refuted.
Lol.

1) We (non-homer fans) know what's going on with Hill. He's in his 30's and coming off a career-altering injury. You stay far away from those players...you don't give them the biggest FA contract in Kings history. Another bad FA signing by Vlade, to go along with Slow-bo and VC this year as well.

2) You omit the part where we gave up a very likely top 5 pick in 2019. That is going to be devastating to a team that is just in the beginning stages of rebuilding. The pick swap also did hurt us this year when we should have had the #3 pick which was Tatum, who looks like an elite level player...something that can't be said for any of our youngsters that your hero Vlade has drafted. Fox has some upside, but I'm not sold on him until he can learn to make a shot from beyond 5 feet. Papa G was the laughing stock of last year's draft. WCS...what a great pick he was...I'm so grateful we got him instead of Booker or Turner, lol.

You homers crack me up making excuses for Vlade. Again, do I need to mention he didn't even know about some entry level front office basics like the stretch provision or trade calls...what an embarrassment.
 
Lol.

1) We (non-homer fans) know what's going on with Hill. He's in his 30's and coming off a career-altering injury. You stay far away from those players...you don't give them the biggest FA contract in Kings history. Another bad FA signing by Vlade, to go along with Slow-bo and VC this year as well.

2) You omit the part where we gave up a very likely top 5 pick in 2019. That is going to be devastating to a team that is just in the beginning stages of rebuilding. The pick swap also did hurt us this year when we should have had the #3 pick which was Tatum, who looks like an elite level player...something that can't be said for any of our youngsters that your hero Vlade has drafted. Fox has some upside, but I'm not sold on him until he can learn to make a shot from beyond 5 feet. Papa G was the laughing stock of last year's draft. WCS...what a great pick he was...I'm so grateful we got him instead of Booker or Turner, lol.

You homers crack me up making excuses for Vlade. Again, do I need to mention he didn't even know about some entry level front office basics like the stretch provision or trade calls...what an embarrassment.
Hindsight is 20/20 with you non-homer fans:) You always find the most dramatic negative wording as in "devastating". Tatum looks to be "elite" while Fox "has some upside". Then you will cherry pick players such as Booker or Turner. Sorry unless you called these things beforehand you are just another non-homer:p
 
Name some legit superstars in your opinion so we know what level of player we are talking about?
Just look at the best player on a Finals team from any year.

Seriously, are you really talking about the Warriors? No one is going to beat the Warriors anytime soon if they stay healthy. Beating the Warriors isn't our immediate goal. Lets start by hopefully making the playoffs in a couple of years. This rebuild isn't going to happen overnight. There aren't any shortcuts. We've what, played eight games and everyone is already complaining. I have no idea who is going to be a star out of the group we have. If I had to put money down, I'd put it on Fox. We have no idea how good Giles is going to be, and we have no idea who were going to draft at the end of the season. Steve Nash didn't become a star until his fifth year in the league, and some of you have already made up your minds after 8 games. Unbelievable!
I haven’t made up my mind entirely about Fox, Bog and Skal. Forgot about Giles and sure let’s throw in Papa. But imo, the chances are very small. My point is, we need 2 more drafts instead of 1. And since this rebuild obviously “isn’t going to happen overnight” that makes the loss of our pick a really bad one.

You focused your reply about the Warriors. How about instead of Warriors, I put, “we ain’t going to win a championship anytime soon.” And by that, I don’t mean 4 or 5 years down the road, I mean like, going through ANOTHER rebuild before that happens.

Also Steve Nash never won a ring lol, but I get what you’re saying. 0.1% chance of something happening doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
 
Lol.

1) We (non-homer fans) know what's going on with Hill. He's in his 30's and coming off a career-altering injury. You stay far away from those players...you don't give them the biggest FA contract in Kings history. Another bad FA signing by Vlade, to go along with Slow-bo and VC this year as well.

2) You omit the part where we gave up a very likely top 5 pick in 2019. That is going to be devastating to a team that is just in the beginning stages of rebuilding. The pick swap also did hurt us this year when we should have had the #3 pick which was Tatum, who looks like an elite level player...something that can't be said for any of our youngsters that your hero Vlade has drafted. Fox has some upside, but I'm not sold on him until he can learn to make a shot from beyond 5 feet. Papa G was the laughing stock of last year's draft. WCS...what a great pick he was...I'm so grateful we got him instead of Booker or Turner, lol.

You homers crack me up making excuses for Vlade. Again, do I need to mention he didn't even know about some entry level front office basics like the stretch provision or trade calls...what an embarrassment.
one problem with this is that everybody I know was crossing their fingers and praying to their gods that SOMEBODY would pick Tatum so that Fox would drop to us.

Worst Monday morning QB to say Kings "missed chance to get Tatum". I literally do not know a SINGLE person who was hoping Tatum would drop to #5. But anything to slam the Kings... what is the point of that anyway???
 
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one problem with this is that everybody I know was crossing their fingers and praying to their gods that SOMEBODY would pick Tatum so that Fox would drop to us.

Worst Monday morning QB to say Kings "missed chance to get Tatum". I literally do not know a SINGLE person who was hoping Tatum would drop to #5. But anything to slam the Kings... what is the point of that anyway???
Tatum is clearly the best player from this draft and has proven it so far...the Celtics don't even miss Hayward. Meanwhile, Vlade is universally rated as the laughingstock of NBA GM's in every media outlet I've seen.
 
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Tatum is clearly the best player from this draft and has proven it so far...the Celtics don't even miss Hayward. Meanwhile, Vlade is universally rated as the laughingstock of NBA GM's in every media outlet I've seen
Nobody wanted Tatum not even Boston fans
Smh
 
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one problem with this is that everybody I know was crossing their fingers and praying to their gods that SOMEBODY would pick Tatum so that Fox would drop to us.

Worst Monday morning QB to say Kings "missed chance to get Tatum". I literally do not know a SINGLE person who was hoping Tatum would drop to #5. But anything to slam the Kings... what is the point of that anyway???
http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/20/nba-mock-draft-both-rounds-lonzo-ball-lakers-trade-rumors

All the experts had Tatum over Fox. I guess you think that Vlade is smarter than Danny Ainge (LOL!!).

Evaluating the two players so far...Tatum has clearly been superior, going by stats, eye test, or win/loss impact. He's also younger to boot, and playing under a lot more pressure replacing Hayward on an expected title contending team.
 
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Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
I've cleaned up the personal insults. Now it's your turn to clean it up. You needn't agree with each other, but please have a discussion like adults.
 
Tatum is clearly the best player from this draft and has proven it so far...the Celtics don't even miss Hayward. Meanwhile, Vlade is universally rated as the laughingstock of NBA GM's in every media outlet I've seen.
You keep saying we would have had Tatum. That’s totally incorrect. If the Philly trade doesn’t happen Boston takes Tatum at 1. We would have had the second best of Fultz, Ball or Fox after the Lakers pick.
 
Tatum is clearly the best player from this draft and has proven it so far...the Celtics don't even miss Hayward. Meanwhile, Vlade is universally rated as the laughingstock of NBA GM's in every media outlet I've seen.
Charles Barkley likes the Kings direction as do the others on the TNT telecast. John Wall complimented Fox after matching up with him. Quite a few people in the NBA community like the Kings Direction.

Why are you trying so hard to verbally bash all things Kings in this early phase of a rebuild? Is it because you know the losses will pile up and this makes them an easy target?

If you were GM what would you have done?