[Game] Kings @ Suns - 3/15/17 - 7PT/10ET

SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#132
#132
HndsmCelt said:
A couple wins will do wonders for moral, but more importantly the kids, mostly Skal and Buddy are showing real promise. It takes some of the sting out of things.
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Word. Things would still be pretty salty around here if Buddy played like McBen and Skal played like a scared deer-eyed underpowered and unready rookie. :p
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#136
#136
funkykingston said:
I hate to feed into Vlade's "culture matters" and Grant's narrative about a "cloud being lifted" but the truth is that whenever I hear Buddy or Skal interviewed they make it very easy to root for them.
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True. But Peaches has to realize that "the future" was already here before that awful trade was made. It's not like they acquired Skal in that trade. It'd been nice for them to hold on to what they had and, I don't know, add to it as Skal, Malachi and Papa all developed and matured. Skal wasn't ready the 1st couple months, but he could easily be playing next to Cousins right now, who had no problem passing to players that could score a basket.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#137
#137
KingsFanSince85 said:
True. But Peaches has to realize that "the future" was already here before that awful trade was made. It's not like they acquired Skal in that trade. It'd been nice for them to hold on to what they had and, I don't know, add to it as Skal, Malachi and Papa all developed and matured. Skal wasn't ready the 1st couple months, but he could easily be playing next to Cousins right now, who had no problem passing to players that could score a basket.
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Very true.

The implications of the trade (and the surprisingly small return) are that (1) the market for Boogie was minimal and (2) the thought from the Kings was basically addition by subtraction.

If that weren't the case the Kings wouldn't have been so eager to move him.

I still think Boogie was a star who wasn't given enough support but Vlade clearly felt the Kings couldn't move forward with him on the roster.

Time will tell.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#141
#141
funkykingston said:
Very true.

The implications of the trade (and the surprisingly small return) are that (1) the market for Boogie was minimal and (2) the thought from the Kings was basically addition by subtraction.
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If the Kings end up with essentially the 2016 #6, the 2017 #8 pick and a second rounder, I wonder how far off that is from the proper haul? Kevin Love might be an example off the top of my head. He was an All-star player in his prime who had not made it to the playoffs and was traded for a #1. Not saying Love is as good as Cuz but he also had less baggage. What do we think the Kings should have gotten in return? One more 1st? Legitimate question.
 
John Galt

John Galt

Starter
#143
#143
iowamcnabb said:
If the Kings end up with essentially the 2016 #6, the 2017 #8 pick and a second rounder, I wonder how far off that is from the proper haul? Kevin Love might be an example off the top of my head. He was an All-star player in his prime who had not made it to the playoffs and was traded for a #1. Not saying Love is as good as Cuz but he also had less baggage. What do we think the Kings should have gotten in return? One more 1st? Legitimate question.
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exactly. with a little luck maybe they get 2017 and 2019 first along with Heild. The 2019 first (prob high teens) got downgraded to a high 2017 second (prob low 30s). Not wonderful, but not the greatest catastrophe in the world. If we end up with a top 10 from Pels in 2017 I think the trade haul is just fine.
 
P

peacelate

Bench
#144
#144
iowamcnabb said:
If the Kings end up with essentially the 2016 #6, the 2017 #8 pick and a second rounder, I wonder how far off that is from the proper haul? Kevin Love might be an example off the top of my head. He was an All-star player in his prime who had not made it to the playoffs and was traded for a #1. Not saying Love is as good as Cuz but he also had less baggage. What do we think the Kings should have gotten in return? One more 1st? Legitimate question.
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No protection on the 1st round pick at the very least.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#146
#146
iowamcnabb said:
If the Kings end up with essentially the 2016 #6, the 2017 #8 pick and a second rounder, I wonder how far off that is from the proper haul? Kevin Love might be an example off the top of my head. He was an All-star player in his prime who had not made it to the playoffs and was traded for a #1. Not saying Love is as good as Cuz but he also had less baggage. What do we think the Kings should have gotten in return? One more 1st? Legitimate question.
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Two firsts and a recent lotto pick on a rookie deal seems fair for a top 5 player which Cousins has been this year. We've been discussing it all season and that seems to be the consensus. Most people would have been happy with Jaylen Brown and Brooklyn's next two lotto picks. Vlade probably could have gotten something like that if he opened up the bidding league-wide but it sounds like he was targeting either Ingram or Hield and wasn't considering other offers so that obviously eliminated any chance of a bidding war getting us more value. Waiting until after the lottery may have resulted in a better trade or it may have resulted in teams getting cold-feet about giving up 4 years of an elite prospect and a future pick for 1 guaranteed year of DeMarcus. It's hard to say really. It could have been worse though! At least he wasn't traded to the GD Lakers!

If we end up with an additional top 10 pick this year, a good prospect at the top of the second round, and Buddy Hield becomes a solid starting SG it doesn't look like a bad package deal in the end. And you have to figure that tanking the rest of the season to keep our top-10 protected pick by trading DeMarcus in February was a consideration as well. We got blind-sided with that trade after months of assurances that DeMarcus was here for the long haul, but as time has passed and rational analysis starts to overtake raw emotion again it's looking like a better decision than it seemed like at the time. The top 3 protection on the New Orleans pick really sucks though and our inability to secure a future pick to mitigate the risk isn't great either. But we were really up against a wall there. There just weren't enough bullets left in the gun to rebuild around DeMarcus. Now our timeline has been extended and expectations lowered and we actually have some young assets to work with.

The only thing that really sucks about it for me is that DeMarcus was as loyal as any NBA player is ever going to be to our team and our city and he was rewarded with a local paper and play-by-play man that bad-mouthed him any chance they could get and a GM/owner who talked up loyalty and family and then jettisoned him without so much as a friendly handshake and a "thanks for your services". The people who write these storylines are going to say that DeMarcus failed Sacramento and I really don't see any angle where that's remotely true. Winning with DeMarcus is the only thing that would have shut them up so it feels to me like the bad guys were rewarded for their pettiness, but life often doesn't turn out the way we would like. There's still a chance for him to forge his own happy ending elsewhere and for us to do the same with a new group of faces here.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#147
#147
hrdboild said:
Two firsts and a recent lotto pick on a rookie deal seems fair for a top 5 player which Cousins has been this year. We've been discussing it all season and that seems to be the consensus. Most people would have been happy with Jaylen Brown and Brooklyn's next two lotto picks. Vlade probably could have gotten something like that if he opened up the bidding league-wide but it sounds like he was targeting either Ingram or Hield and wasn't considering other offers so that obviously eliminated any chance of a bidding war getting us more value. Waiting until after the lottery may have resulted in a better trade or it may have resulted in teams getting cold-feet about giving up 4 years of an elite prospect and a future pick for 1 guaranteed year of DeMarcus. It's hard to say really. If we end up with an additional top 10 pick this year, a good prospect at the top of the second round, and Buddy Hield becomes a solid starting SG it doesn't look like a bad package deal in the end. And you have to figure that tanking the rest of the season to keep our top-10 protected pick by trading DeMarcus in February was a consideration as well. We got blind-sided with that trade after months of assurances that DeMarcus was here for the long haul, but as time has passed and rational analysis starts to overtake raw emotion again it's looking like a better decision than it seemed like at the time. There just weren't enough bullets left in the gun to rebuild around DeMarcus. Now our timeline has been extended and expectations lowered and we actually have some young assets to work with.

The only thing that really sucks about it for me is that DeMarcus was as loyal as any NBA player is ever going to be to our team and our city and he was rewarded with a local paper and play-by-play man that bad-mouthed him any chance they could get and a GM/owner who talked up loyalty and family and then jettisoned him without so much as a friendly handshake and a "thanks for your services". The people who write these storylines are going to say that DeMarcus failed Sacramento and I really don't see any angle where that's remotely true. Winning with DeMarcus is the only thing that would have shut them up so it feels to me like the bad guys were rewarded for their pettiness, but life often doesn't turn out the way we would like. There's still a chance for him to forge his own happy ending elsewhere and for us to do the same with a new group of faces here.
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Brown and the Brooklyn firsts weren't going to happen

Cousins reputation is in the dumpster, right or wrong. GMs have to worry about their jobs

Before the trade, when Cousins dropped 40 on the Lakers, heading into all star weekend, I personally would've thought maybe Jaylen and one Brooklyn.

But according to Vlade there was literally no interest, which is why he went public with not wanting to trade him
 
Kingfanpaul

Kingfanpaul

Starter
#148
#148
I'll support him as long as he's a King, but I really hope Rudy opts out. I don't want his ISO game anywhere near this young team. I'm thankful for his contributions here, I'd wish him luck on his future, and if he does stay, I'll root for him to succeed.... but I hope he opts for a change.

This young team shares the ball and it's fun watching them. I don't want to return to ISO ball.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#150
#150
Kingsfan23 said:
Brown and the Brooklyn firsts weren't going to happen

Cousins reputation is in the dumpster, right or wrong. GMs have to worry about their jobs

Before the trade, when Cousins dropped 40 on the Lakers, heading into all star weekend, I personally would've thought maybe Jaylen and one Brooklyn.

But according to Vlade there was literally no interest, which is why he went public with not wanting to trade him
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I didn't mean the Boston trade specifically, I just meant something like it. A top player from last year's draft, this year's lotto pick, and a future pick with some protection on it. Ainge is a smart guy -- he saw something he liked in Jaylen Brown and didn't want to give him up. He was my favorite prospect last year too so I can't blame him for that one. Also the Brooklyn picks are already looking like locks to be top 5 in the next two drafts and I don't think there's a working GM (now that Billy King has been fired again :) ) who would give up two consecutive top 5 picks for anyone except prime Lebron. Those particular assets appreciated out of our range but I don't think the trade we got proves that DeMarcus' value was in the tank either. That's a storyline we were sold to make the trade look better but really it came down to teams just weren't given time to put together competitive offers. Vlade wanted a deal over the weekend, he had a short list of potential targets, and the perennial trade-suckers in the New Orleans front-office got wise to it and lowered their offer to see who blinked first. If there's one valid criticism I would level at Vlade its that in his tenure to date he's made a habit of blinking first and it's not a reputation he should be courting if he wants to keep this job for awhile.
 
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